Combining high and low beams

[LRT]

What is involved to combine the high and low beams on a pre-facelift Discovery II ? LRT

[winaje]

A little more information...? Do you want to run both high and low filament at the same time on the standard H4 globe that fits the light housing?

[LRT]

Yes, you are quite right. I do want to run both high and low filaments at the same time.

When you pull the high beam switch towards you, against spring pressure, you get the high and the low beam on together. Having both high and low beams on together fills out the area that the high beam misses, and cuts out the bright light shining up in the fog. LRT

[winaje]

edited to remove possibly inaccurate information

[PhilipA]

OK, I'd strongly suggest you don't do this, as it will be completely illegal.

I can advise that BMW 3 series E36 add high beam to low beam when placed on High beam.
While they have 4 headlights , the principle is the same, so it cannot be illegal.
However I think the bulbs would die in short order. Flash is one thing, on all the time another.
Regard sPhilip A

[tangus89]

My mothers Honda also has low and high on at the same time.
I remember our old d2 and when driving at night on potholed roads I used low beam as you could see the potholes easier, i also had the though of combining the two beams, But then it got sold for a puma, problem solved :D

[Fluids]

The facelift D2a runs the low beams as well when high beam is selected ...

... it has 4x lights/reflectors though.

Can't be illegal.

[VladTepes]

From Western Australian Consolidated Regulations (based of course on the ADR's)



ROAD TRAFFIC (VEHICLE STANDARDS) RULES 2002 - REG 77

77 . Changing headlights from high-beam to low-beam position

(1) A motor vehicle built after 1934 that can travel at over 60 km/h must be fitted with —

(a) a dipping device enabling the driver in the normal driving position —

(i) to change the headlights from the high-beam position to the low-beam position; or

(ii) simultaneously to switch off a high-beam headlight and switch on a low-beam headlight;

and

(b) for a vehicle built after June 1953 — a device to indicate to the driver that the headlights are in the high-beam position.

(2) A headlight fitted to a vehicle not fitted with a dipping device mentioned in subrule (1)(a) must operate in the low-beam position.

(3) When a headlight fitted to a vehicle is switched to the low-beam position, any other headlight on the vehicle must operate only in the low-beam position or be off.


ROAD TRAFFIC (VEHICLE STANDARDS) RULES 2002 (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/wa/consol_reg/rtsr2002308/)


Reference to the ADR
http://www.google.com.au/url'sa=t&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CDsQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.comlaw.gov.au%2FDetails%2FF20 07C00608%2F52069310-a68d-4234-898f-844000bab145&ei=t6z5Te-zGozYuAPp0-CrAw&usg=AFQjCNH98sPMxlna-YK-8ebKDevok4a2bg

doesn't appear to prohibit both high and low beam operating together IN HIGH BEAM MODE.

ADR's onlin here:
Third Edition Australian Design Rules (http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/motor/design/adr_online.aspx)

specific reference
Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 13/00 - Installation of Lighting and Light Signalling Devices on other than L-Group Vehicles) 2005 (http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Series/F2005L03991)

[bee utey]

I occasionally see old round low beam only H1 headlamps, used in twin lamp systems such as the ZG Fairlane. The high beam headlamps come on as well. In a single lamp assembly the main risk would be overheating, and the negative terminal of the bulb would carry twice the current. You would need to make sure the connectors are clean and tight.

If you had relays on both high and low beam a simple dash switch and diode would allow the low beam relay to be fed from the high side of the dip switch as well if you wanted to do so.

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

You will find running both filaments of an H4 bulb will result in a lot of bulb burnouts from the heat of both running at the same time not to mention heat damage to the reflector and glass.
You can upgrade to D2a headlights but the mod is a bit fiddly and can have niggles when a bullbar is fitted however it looks quite good on a D2.

I don't suggest HID for any headlight with refractive glass so only other option easy to do is upgrade to +50 globes in a 100/90 and a light harness upgrade available thru the shop link.

Andrew

Using Capitals, the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse or helping your uncle jack off a horse...

[LRT]

In light of comments about overheating, it does seem best to have separate lamps for high and low beam, like the D2a and my Triumph 2500 TC (see the attached picture), which like other Triumphs, has twin head lamps enabling both beams to be operated in high-beam mode.

However, I would be keen to know more about where bee utey would position the diode and what size he would use. Also bee utey, would you wire according to the attached dual wiring diagram?

[Graeme]

Apart from the globes overheating and destroying the reflectors, if low beam is added to the high beam circuits then you may have no lights at all because of the overload protection built into the MOSFETS that are used to switch the lights, on unless a separate harness with relays has been fitted.

[bee utey]

I would be keen to know more about where bee utey would position the diode and what size he would use. Also bee utey, would you wire according to the attached dual wiring diagram?

Essentially the position of the diode is correct so long as you replace the lamp loads with relays to drive the lamps. Then a 1 amp diode will be enough although a 3 amp would be better if you use twin relays per side. Add a switch in line with the diode and you can select the feature for occasional use when required. Also don't use bulbs heavier than 60/55W or you will be sure to do damage to the lamp holders and reflectors. There are plenty of uprade globes available from most suppliers these days in this wattage rating.

Personally I wouldn't bother with this mod, I would just purchase a couple of those new LED driving lamps to come on with the high beam, and adjust them for best illumination in high beam mode.

2 BLACK LED Driving/Riding Lights 12V 20W 1700 lumen | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-BLACK-LED-Driving-Riding-Lights-12V-20W-1700-lumen-/110649909153?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19c33f9fa1)

[wopac5]

Another simple option would be to install a set of white "fog" lamps...these can be on at all times, or switched with the high beam (like a set of driving lamps)to be on on high beam only as fill lights in liue of the low beam.
Personaly, I'd go with a good set of driving lamps (HID or HID upgraded) and you'll think you're driving in daylight.

[greif]

i can be wrong-;)

i live in sweden and i have a d2 2004 and my father have a d2 2003
and i run both high and low filament at the same time on the standard H4 globe that fits the light housing? it is original her so i dont se anny problem whit it. SORRY about the bad english

[BigJon]

Another simple option would be to install a set of white "fog" lamps...these can be on at all times, .

Not legally.

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

i can be wrong-;)

i live in sweden and i have a d2 2004 and my father have a d2 2003
and i run both high and low filament at the same time on the standard H4 globe that fits the light housing? it is original her so i dont se anny problem whit it. SORRY about the bad english

2003-04 models are twin separate hi-low beams running H7 single filament bulbs in each reflector.


Using Capitals, the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse or helping your uncle jack off a horse...

[PaulMc0308]

What is involved to combine the high and low beams on a pre-facelift Discovery II ? LRT


Very easy, I've done it on my pre-facelift DII :cool:

I've had my DII for a couple of years and I did the modification shortly after I got it.

I'm still using the same H4 Bulbs from when I did the modification, which are + 50% Brighter Halfords own brand (Halfords are a high-street car accessory shop in the UK), the bulbs haven't blown, the connectors haven't melted and neither have the reflectors.


As some of the posters on this thread have already noted, when you pull the switch all the way back to latch on main beam, the dipped beam extinguishes, throwing most of the light 'down the road' leaving a (relatively) dark area in the foreground

You can see the extent of this by 'flashing' - as this flashes the main beam, without extinguishing dipped beam.


I've now 'fixed' this annoyance, by releasing the Blue/Red (UR) wire's terminal from cavity 2 on the Lighting Switch Connector (C0041) and moving it to cavity 1 - dipped beam now stays on with main beam (as per some other markets)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/693.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v686/paulmc0308/Electrical/Discovery_II/C0041-LightingSwitchConnector.jpg)



The terminal can be released from the connector, by lifting the retaining tab, using a pin from the front of the connector, while pulling gently on the Blue/Red wire.

You can see the terminal retaining tabs in this picture -

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/694.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v686/paulmc0308/Electrical/Discovery_II/IMG_2590.jpg)

(ignore the tick and cross against the terminals, this was to highlight (to a member on another forum) the difference between the correct Sumitomo terminal for this connector and the standard AMP type, which doesn't fit)


At some point in the near future, I'll be changing the H4 connectors for ceramic ones, with heavier gauge wiring and relays. Not because I'm worried about it burning out, but because it reduces the volt-drop at the connectors and makes the lights brighter.


Paul.

1989 Arles Blue 2.5TD 110 Hardtop
1999 Epsom Green Discovery II 4.0 V8i XS

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/05/770.jpg

.

[PhilipA]

Ya learn something every day.
I have never known it possible although I think my 130/90s would take a smidgeon of excess current.
Regards Philip A

[PaulMc0308]

Ya learn something every day.
I have never known it possible although I think my 130/90s would take a smidgeon of excess current.
Regards Philip A


Mine are the standard Wattage 60/55W bulbs. I wouldn't try it with higher Wattages because of overheating and/or overloading the circuit.



Paul.

1989 Arles Blue 2.5TD 110 Hardtop
1999 Epsom Green Discovery II 4.0 V8i XS

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/05/770.jpg

.

[LRT]

Fantastic Paul. Thanks for your detailed information. Although we could fit fog lights and extra driving lights as other forum contributors have well suggested, they may not solve the problem of the dark central patch of the DII low beam when high beam is dipped, which we also experience, especially in off highway night driving in foggy conditions. On bitumen highways and roads this black spot is not a problem when dipping high beam to low beam, even at 110 kms per hour. But on gravel roads with grassy edges, this black spot is serious, even at much lower speeds.

We regularly travel on gravel roads and meet with patches of heavy fog. If the high beam is left on, it just shines up into the fog with blinding shafts of light. If the high beam is dipped, it is momentarily hard to see the road in front on low beams due to the black spot. But if the high beam is manually held on in flash mode with the low beams still on, visibility is excellent. Indeed, the DII’s combined lights are far superior than the separate fog and driving lights we have had on other vehicles.

It is a relief to know that we will be able to use the DII’s standard lights, as we certainly don’t want to damage them, which would be expensive to replace or upgrade. Your proposed modification to suit the standard globes seems excellent.

LRT

[PaulMc0308]

The factory fitted fog lamps fill-in the dark area perfectly and, as a bonus, light-up the roadside verges and ditches immediately to the front and to the sides of the car.

Where I live is mostly rural lanes, so in the dark, you usually get plenty of advance warning of vehicles coming the other way and have time to switch the fog lamps off and dip your main beams, but it's a PITA to have to do it manually each time.

Unfortunately, it's not legal here to use front fog lamps in anything other than conditions of reduced visiblity, i.e. - mist, fog, heavy rain (darkness doesn't qualify :( )

BUT, if you use them with main beams, they are legal if they extinguish when you dip your lights as, in the eyes of the law, they become 'Auxiliary Lamps' - regardless of beam pattern and mounting position.

I'm currently thinking of either putting some extra fog lights in the below-bumper grille, that only come on with main beam, something like this -

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/660.jpg
(that's not my DII - the pic. is from here -Land Rover Owner • View topic - new spots (http://www.lro.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=67511) )


but using a pair of rectangular(ish) Hella FF75 Fog Lamps (which I already have) -
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/661.jpg



Or modfying the factory fog lights circuit so that I have the option for them to switch on when main beam is selected.

Off the top of my head, this would involve a latching switch and a changeover relay, but this might be complicated by virtue of the fact that the front fog lamps are controlled by the BCU.


As an aside, if your front fog lights won't stay illuminated with main beam (some markets don't allow this combination), the setting in the BCU can be changed -

You'll need to use a suitable plug-in diagnostics tool to change this setting, there are three options for front fog lights -

None - The vehicle is not fitted with front fog lamps

No Main - The front fog lamps will operate if the headlamps are on main beam

Main - The front fog lamps will not operate if the headlamps are on main beam

The above 'Non-CLASS' settings descriptions are from the Technical manual in RAVE, but 'Main' and 'No Main' seem to be the wrong way round to me :confused:


Paul.

1989 Arles Blue 2.5TD 110 Hardtop
1999 Epsom Green Discovery II 4.0 V8i XS

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/05/770.jpg

.

[BigJon]

Unfortunately, it's not legal here to use front fog lamps in anything other than conditions of reduced visiblity, i.e. - mist, fog, heavy rain (darkness doesn't qualify :( )




.

It isn't legal in Australia either, but that doesn't stop lots of ignorant and/or selfish people from driving around with them turned on all the time.

[LRT]

Many thanks PaulMc0308 for your helpful comments on the DII fog lamps. It is a relief to know that they will fill in the low beam blackspot as they are quite expensive to purchase. It was good to see pictures of your proposed central lights below the number plate, which may well be better suited for the country road driving that we both experience, rather than DII factory fog lamps.

Would the DII standard alternator need to be upgraded in order to run both the factory fog lamps and your proposed centre lamps with the high beams on?

LRT

[PaulMc0308]

Many thanks PaulMc0308 for your helpful comments on the DII fog lamps. It is a relief to know that they will fill in the low beam blackspot as they are quite expensive to purchase. It was good to see pictures of your proposed central lights below the number plate, which may well be better suited for the country road driving that we both experience, rather than DII factory fog lamps.

Would the DII standard alternator need to be upgraded in order to run both the factory fog lamps and your proposed centre lamps with the high beams on?

LRT


I think that the standard Alternator is more than man-enough for the job -

The TD5 Alternator has a 120Amp output

The V8 Alternator has a 130Amp output


Paul.

1989 Arles Blue 2.5TD 110 Hardtop
1999 Epsom Green Discovery II 4.0 V8i XS

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/05/770.jpg

.