200Tdi on WVO

[alexturner]

G'day guys,

Something I've been wanting to do with my Defender - before it was my defender was to get it running on WVO.

As far as building a WVO system goes where should I start? I want a system where I can pump WVO straight into a tank where it is initially filtered (bag) then when it is drawn into the engine it undergoes a series of filters to filter the oil of water and solids until it is heated and combusted.

How should I design my filtering system? I've seen filters at truck spare stores in sydney that filter the water out of fuel. I can only assume that the viscosity of WVO would bugger those filters up - though if I were to preheat the fuel first would that be a viable option? (I'm not sure what kind of filter they are, though they are not centrifugal).

Any advice / experience would be brilliant!

[wrinklearthur]

Hi

If I can get to it I will try and photograph a 200TDi fuel tank that has something adhered to its insides that resembles tar!


So when this particular Land Rover had it's injector pump jammed full on as result of that tar, it went out of control of it's young driver, sped over a steep drop and rolled reportably seven times!


They survived in my opinion, because the cab guard for the flat tray and the ARB bullbar held the remains of the cab away with enough space as to not get crushed.

Cheers Arthur

[alexturner]

Hi

If I can get to it I will try and photograph a 200TDi fuel tank that has something adhered to its insides that resembles tar!


So when this particular Land Rover had it's injector pump jammed full on as result of that tar, it went out of control of it's young driver, sped over a steep drop and rolled reportably seven times!


They survived in my opinion, because the cab guard for the flat tray and the ARB bullbar held the remains of the cab away with enough space as to not get crushed.

Cheers Arthur

I probably would have used the clutch and breaks... Maybe thats just me - the 200Tdi isn't exactly a high powered / high speed vehicle

[setsuna]

simple, bag filter 5 or 10micron.
cold filter at this stage to remove any high temp melting point oils that may catch up with you in the cooler months. (filter for the month you are using the fuel!!)

two tank system, start on diesel, pollak valve, heat exchanger for wvo (waste veg oil) to bring it up to 30-50degrees. shut down on diesel.

I have run my 300tdi for the last 3 years without issue.

key tip: use large diameter piping for the WVO as it does get thick. alternatively use a 'lift pump' to get it from the tank. (don't charge more than a few psi into the IP though!!)

I have a few pics of my conversion here (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/bio-fuels/91645-discovery-wvo-conversion.html).


David

[wrinklearthur]

Hi All

A couple of pictures showing the damage of the roll over, note where a post nearly got the driver!

Cheers Arthur

[setsuna]

sorry, I am a disbeliever.
when WVO goes wrong it certainly doesn't get 'stuck full on'
its more like 'gets stuck on the side of the road'

David.

[alexturner]

simple, bag filter 5 or 10micron.
cold filter at this stage to remove any high temp melting point oils that may catch up with you in the cooler months. (filter for the month you are using the fuel!!)

two tank system, start on diesel, pollak valve, heat exchanger for wvo (waste veg oil) to bring it up to 30-50degrees. shut down on diesel.

I have run my 300tdi for the last 3 years without issue.

key tip: use large diameter piping for the WVO as it does get thick. alternatively use a 'lift pump' to get it from the tank. (don't charge more than a few psi into the IP though!!)

I have a few pics of my conversion here (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/bio-fuels/91645-discovery-wvo-conversion.html).


David

Thanks mate,

That's what I've been thinking. What's an IP? I was looking at installing a dieselcraft centrifuge under the bonnet which would require a minimum 40PSI inlet pressure to work. What is the pressure limitation of the fuel pump?

Alex

[alexturner]

My grand idea was to allow the oil settle for a few days (2 or 3) then pump the settled oil through a 2 stage filter (cartridge) into the WVO tank. From the WVO tank the oil will be pulled through a lift pump to the bonnet at 40psi. In the bonnet the first port of call would be a heater which would heat the oil to coolant temperature. From there the oil will pass through a Dieselcraft centrifuge which would aid in filtering contaminates roughly 1 micron in size. The oil would then pass through a Racor 1000FG filter which will further clean the oil and the patented AquaBloc additive should be able to filter the elements the centrifuge failed to clean all whilst keeping the Racor element as clean as possible.

One thing I like about the Dieselcraft units is the water sensor option - which illuminates upon the detection of water in the collection bowl of the centrifuge. From there heated fuel lines would add a few degrees to the final temperature of the oil and to the injectors it goes.

I will be writing a program that will keep an eye on all temperatures and pressures within the system and send a visual alert to the carputer when something is out of the limits of normal.

Any comments, thoughts, suggestions? Hopefully this system will push me one step further to driving around the world on chip oil.

Alex

[ade]

WTF is WVO??

[Blknight.aus]

waste veggie oil

basically what you get to turn into bio diesel.


I personally do not advocate running pure WVO on any diesel, even if it has a dual fuel system one dieso for starting and one wvo for running. WVO is very prone to cold starting problems and running, mixing in as little as 10% dieso helps sort the problems out. (I run fozzy on up to 40% diesel just to help cold running)

on the money front at $1.20l for dieso IT worked out cheaper to convert to bio once I was over 25% dieso in the wvo.(not counting time just raw resources)

[alexturner]

Ok, so below is my diagram of my proposed setup. I'd like for this system (mobile) to run straight WVO. Any comments, thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Alex

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/1050.jpg

[jazzaD1]

to me it seems easier and there would be less to go wrong if you processed that WVO into biodiesel and just ran it as you would regular diesel

[alexturner]

to me it seems easier and there would be less to go wrong if you processed that WVO into biodiesel and just ran it as you would regular diesel

My ultimate goal is to take this around the world on WVO. It'd be a tad difficult to convert WVO to B100 on the fly :P
Alex

[jazzaD1]

good point!

[Didge]

Good idea Alex, is this just your concept or have you researched it and found what others may already be doing. I've heard of plenty of people driving all around the country but I don't know if they are doing like you or using biodiesel as jazza suggested. How much waste would be produced and is it a problem to dispose of it?

[setsuna]

IP = Injection pump.
HE = Heat Exchanger.


I wouldn't recommend the 12v heater before the heat exchanger, as the oil passes through the exchanger, heat is exchanged - this works in both directions.. so on startup it would be COOLING the oil down to the coolant temp.

pressure meter and thermometer = good idea, though depending on what you do with the pumps and lift pumps may be better after the filters. you can pump through the filters, or draw through them (draw through = vacuum, and can indicate blocked filters when vac goes too high)

Return Flow from both tanks returns to the WVO tank!? - this means your diesel will disappear very quickly! could also mean you overfill your WVO tank with the return flow. but the running out of diesel is more of concern!


I also experimented with looping the return from the IP back to the HE (everything in the engine bay and close etc) to get and keep as much heat into oil as possible. worked pretty well but I had trouble with air getting into the system and because there was no return to the tank - the only way out was through the IP and injectors.. bad for the IP and bad for driving (99% power loss!)

I gave up on this, but you may like to experiment with a small 'surge tank' of only a litre or so to rectify this problem.

David

[alexturner]

Hey Guys, thanks for your advice and interest :)

I've finally ordered most of the equipment to get my setup going and I thought I'd share my proposed Beta-1 setup.

I've decided on a mesh-filter-based system and I think I'll leave cyclone/centrifuge filters for another day. Upon discovering high grade WVO I will draw the oil from its storage location through a 200Micron mesh screen. From there a two-stage water filter system will filter the oil down to 50micron then to 20 micron - it will then be pumped into the heated WVO tank in the car.

A three valve system will be in place to select between Diesel/WVO tanks (and Returns) though the third valve will purge the WVO system with less viscous Diesel to prevent cold starting problems.

Once the coolant is up to temperature the WVO will be drawn from the tank and through a 30 plate heat exchanger. From there the heated oil will be drawn through two heated Racor 1000FH filters which will centrifuge the oil and filter it to 1 micron (the first stage will filter to 5 Micron). From there a computer controlled 300Watt heating element will heat the oil once more before it hits the injector pump (It will not turn on if the oil is up to temperature).

Feedback please :)

Alex

[isuzurover]

Alex,

A few comments. Micron ratings of filters are dodgy anyway (as I have posted elsewhere), however your WVO even at 100oC will still be more viscous than bio/dino-diesel.

This will mean that the filters won't work as well (i.e. won't remove particles as small as they do when filtering diesel). e.g., instead of removing 50% of 5 micron particles, your 50% efficiency may be increased to 10%.

(filters aren't sieves - though your 100/20 micron prefilters/screens may be).

I would pre-filter to a much better standard. If you only have a 20 micron screen before the tank, you will rapidly build up crud in the tank, and rapidly block filters.

Will you have on-board air? I would think about finer pre filters using air pressure to aid filtration and shorten the time required.

I would also think about ditching the 12V heat exchanger, and brazing a copper heat exchanger into the WVO tank. You can run the coolant lines with the fuel lines, wrapped in insulation tape.

[alexturner]

Thanks for the advice mate.

The prefilter is simply a water filter unit so I can be flexible with the filter sizes. The Racor units should be fairly spot on with micron ratings (compared to house hold water filters).

I will have on board air - how do you suggest I utilise it?

Alex

[isuzurover]

Thanks for the advice mate.

The prefilter is simply a water filter unit so I can be flexible with the filter sizes. The Racor units should be fairly spot on with micron ratings (compared to house hold water filters).

I will have on board air - how do you suggest I utilise it?

Alex

My main point is that separators (filters/centrifuges) are not sieves. They have a removal curve which looks something like this:
http://www.pmiamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/efficiency-curve.jpg

The increased viscosity of the WVO will shift your curve to the right, meaning the filters/centrifuges won't work nearly as well on WVO as they do on diesel.

As for the pressurised filtration. you would need a chamber before your filter that you can fill with oil then seal, then connect air up to it to pressurise it (slightly), helping to drive air through the filter.

[isuzurover]

Forgot to add, with the WVO you should get better overall filtration if you use a series of coarser filters, rather than a smaller number of finer filters.

E.g. 3 or 4 of the CAV type filters in series (assuming they are OK with WVO).