Engine Systems Failure ???

[wintonwanderers]

Hi everyone, I am new to this forum so please bear with me.
First the introduction. I am "wintonwanderers" and own a disco 4 2010 SE 3 litre TDV6. I tow a Sunland Caravan, 21'6" and approx 3 tonnes when loaded.
I live on the Gold Coast, and purchased the Disco 4 from Bruce Lynton at Southport.
Now the problem.
Towing the van, car went into "Limp Mode" while going up a hill on a single lane highway. (Black Mountain, near Gympie) Could not do more than 55 kph.
Info on the dash said "Engine Systems Failure".
Got towed to maroochydore and put into caravan park. Disco taken to Pacific Motor Group for repair under warranty. Four days later (it was a week end) got the car back, and when asked what the problem was, they said they did not know, but it was a computer error, and they have reset it and all is well.
NOT FROM WHERE I AM SITTING...ALL IS NOT WELL !
How do I know this will not happen again. I need to know what the problem was that caused this error, and how to PERMANENTLY fix it. I cannot drive an unreliable car, especially when I am towing a caravan. For the $97,000 I paid for this car, I thought it would be bullet proof, and at least reliable. This is definitely not the case. I am now not game to hook the van on and go away in case we have the same thing happen. What if it happens far from civilisation and no help is available, what do I do besides set fire to it and wait for the next passing vehicle to pick us up?
So anyway, the van is sitting idle right now as my wife is not game to go away again in case we break down again. We have both lost faith in this car and would trade it right now if there was something else out there that would tow 3.5 tonnes reliably....BUT THERE IS NOT!
I have investigated the Toymobile 200 series, and they appear to be more unreliable than the disco. Also the Jeeps, and any number of the "New Breed" of cars that have all this electronic crap in them that cause all these faults.
Had a Nissan Patrol 3 lt, but that was under powered, and had no safety features at all, BUT AT LEAST IT WAS RELIABLE!!!
So over to you other forumites... what is the answer, sell it, trade it, and if so buy what. Is there a fix to the "Engine systems failure" problem, and where do I find it. Any info greatly appreciated.
Many Thanks, wintonwanderers.

[WhiteD3]

Welcome to the club :)

Mate,

It probably is just a computer error or something silly with the turbo. Best post this in the D3/D4 forum where you'll get some excellent advice.

I suggest you search the same forum as I seem to remember someone with a similar issue.

For instance http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/112764-disco-4-engine-system-failure-warning-beware.html which is a loooong thread that basically blames the use of cruise control while towing on long climbs.

Cheers.

[Rat]

Hi. I know it is a **** situation but you will only get confidence back by driving it. I have had similar feelings in the past when I first got my defender and land rover couldn't fix some issues. Contact land rover australia (bypass the dealer) and voice your concerns. If the computer went into a limp home mode it should tell them why. I have trusted MR automotive at redcliffe with my car since it was new. They cannot do free warranty work but call them and ask if they have heard of this similar problem before. Maybe worth a visit to them to get a proper diagnosis.
I hope everything works out soon.

[zulu Delta 534]

Often a computer logged error may in actual fact be quite reliable in what it depicts has happened to a particular component, but unfortunately often smaller and simpler mechanical problems that control or power that component can cause the computer to shut things down as a safety measure.
I had a couple of cases of my computer shutting down my TD5 and reverting to limp home mode (very nasty when in a mountainous area with a van on the back- thank God for low range!), and after three different visits to a service centre where they happily each time replaced the faulty sensor switch under warranty (valued at $1100 per go and deemed by the computer to be the problem,) the problem still persisted.
It eventually turned out in this particular case to be caused by my air conditioner drain draining the condensation out of my a/c unit, (as it was designed to do!) and consistently depositing said moisture right on top of the switch.
A 2" plastic tube extension of the drain hose could have saved $3300 worth of previous repairs and a lot of anguish on my behalf.
Since that day I became a lot fussier about where I took my car for maintenance and started looking for older mechanics who are not quite so reliant on computerised assessments and who can look outside the square.
I realise that this may not be the case in your vehicle but often it could help to know what the fault logged implies and then nut out why this happened, or in other words whilst the computer can tell you "part x failed", it cannot fathom out why it failed or whether there may be a broken or dirty power source connection to "part x" or not.
I hope that you don't take this personally, but you and I are a big part of the problem here. We want the biggest van behind the smallest vehicle with arm chair comfort, whereas in actual fact we should really be pulling 3 tonnes with a truck, and as a result of this we find we are always pushing the limits. A great recipe for failure, whatever the marque!
To counteract this problem which in a variety of different forms never really went away, I downsized, firstly in what I tow nowadays and secondly, what vehicle I use as a tow vehicle. Saddest part is that it took me so long to wake up to the fact!
Regards
Glen

[DRanged]

Mate
In this day and age you will get faults and codes etc in any modern vehicle regardless of its make.

Bite the bullett and stick your van on and get up it. Pick some local big hills and varying terrain and test it out. Sitting at home doing nothing, will bring nothing??

I drive a TDI VW Transporter for work and recently got up it in sport mode with a full load of tools on board and got and engine fault warning. Book said take it to the dealer immediately. Plugged in and it said "engine overboost". VW had no answer but logged the fault.

For the next couple of weeks it got a flogging under all types of hills, standing starts etc. To this day no more faults. Never lost confidence in it though.

Lucky you dont own a new Defender, you'd never leave home hey:D

We tow almost 3 tonne of horses and float with our 06, D3 V8 and have never had a fault. Go figure

Justin

[wintonwanderers]

Hi guys, thanks for all that info. We have decided to give it another go, but this time with some insurance. I am looking at buying "Faultmate diagnostic tool" from www.blackbox.com/faultmate in the hope that if we get this error code again, I can reset the codes and get to a town to get it checked out properly. Being stranded and then towed is most stressful, and if we can avoid this, I can see a way to work through this problem.
In the meantime we are going to put it through its paces and see if we can duplicate the problem while we are in cooeeee of the dealer at Southport.
I cannot remember if I was using the cruise control when it failed before or not, but I do have a habit of sticking it on when my foot gets a bit lazy.
Back to the Faultmate Gizmo... to order it online they need the "VEHICLE SERVER SERIAL NUMBER, (on bottom of unit ?) or the "T.U.P. REQUEST CODE". (Server settings info page of vehicle Explorer ??) Can anyone tell me what these are and where to find them. This Gizmo costs $787.36 plus P&H so I think it is a relatively cheap insurance to keep me mobile until I can get to a service centre or dealer. It may never happen again.. but I cannot take that risk without doing all I can to get a plan "B" just in case!
Thanks again for all your help, it is most appreciated.
wintonwanderers.

[RangieBit]

Hi There WW,

Sorry to hear of your woes with your D4. Alas we live in the age of the computer assisted car. Computers have many Gremlins. The more complex a system the more complex become its problems. Considering the complexity of your selected LR I find it amazing they don't have more problems. At last count your car probably has as much software as your average A320 has in its FMS. You should see their fault logs. Actually now I think about that, probably not as you might never fly again.:eek:

Not sure where you were seeking on the BBS Solutions site but the cheapest solution for your beast from BBS is around $AUD1150 (plus shipping and GST) using the Nano server. Around $AUD1250 (plus shipping and GST) using the Extreme server.

If you already have the Faultmate hardware then the full software suite will cost about what you mentioned.

Before you commit yourself, contact Paul (PaulP38A) from Hard Range. He should be able to talk you through the options and configuration of the Faultmate for your D4. Best of all he's right here in Australia :D. Send him a PM, or give him a call, and he'll do right by you I'm sure.

You need a Server (recommend the Extreme since it can be used stand-alone), software for your D4 modules and the appropriate leads. You supply a laptop and you have all you could possibly need. You could then probably do more/better diagnosis than many of the dealers.

Good luck with it all and may you have many fuss free years from your Discovery.

Cheers,
Iain

[stig0000]

so your going to clear the faults (if it fualts) and then go to the dealer saying fix it,, when you have cleared the fualts already in there,???

as a to your car there is a bulletin about the sys fualt and LR is looking into as we speek, yes we no what went "wrong" with your car but there is not a fix for it yet, we have at several cars come up with this code and all have been cleared and sent to LR, not one has come back with the light on and this code again,

[101RRS]

The most immediate action when a fault like that is to switch off and switch back on and most likely the fault will be gone but still logged in the codes.

Failing that, switch off and pull the handbrake on and wait until the handbrake light goes off. Then switch back on and most likely everything will be OK with the fault logged in the codes for when the next service is done.

Failing that - switch off and wait until the handbrake light goes out then disconnect the battery cables and touch them together to clear any residual voltages in the system - should reboot the computers when you then reconnect the battery cables and switch on. Not sure if this clears the codes in the system if the fault has fixed itself.

Failing that then I guess expert advice is needed.

Garry

[RangieBit]

That's a fair call Stig,

It's reassuring to know that at least LRA have an awareness of the issue even if they haven't fathomed its real cause or a created a fix yet.

As to the clearing of faults, it's not always that clear cut. Most tools give you the option of clearing the fault or merely recording it. Even if you do clear the fault then it is generally always recorded.

Let's face it, sometimes the only way you can get the beast moving again is to clear the fault. Lost count of the issues I've had around dodgy connections on wheel sensors and voltage spikes that have screwed with my EAS (and other ECUs) and given me grief as a result. No real fault there just an occasional "failure to communicate" that the computers are not clever enough to retry when the car is restarted.

When I had issues (they tended to be few but major) with my BMW 3-series a few years back I used my OBDII tool to read the faults and clear them. I always had the fault code(s) and all of the frame data to pass on to the main dealer if it became necessary to get them involved in the fix though.

So a diagnostic tool is not necessarily a bad thing.

Just my take on it all.

Cheers,
Iain

[stig0000]

yer soz i dident put that in that people record the codes but its more then that,, we need session files and time frames witch will be cleared and i guarantee 99% of customer have no idea about,

things like engine records are cleared, basically this things have black boxes in that we can now look at, b4 it was only technical that could,


but i do agree if i was stuck in the middle of no were id clear codes to get moving again, ;) just please be a tiny bit lenient about this sort of faults, i wish it was just that easy

oh buy the way the fuel fault that this thread is about is a software fault,

[stig0000]

ok, UPDATE

i spoke to engineering about this ,,, they found the problem and will have a softwere update released in the next week or 2,

this is not a bulletin in its self yet but im expecting to, seems to be with only very select vehicles,

oh this fualt will not clear with a ing off/on or hard reset eather,

[wintonwanderers]

Thank you Stig 0000, How do I go about getting this "Fix" ?
Where did you go to speak to "Engineering ??
I live on the gold coast at nerang, do you recommend anywhere I should take it? Thanks, wintonwanderers.

[stig0000]

any dealer will be able to do it,, no back street person can,

talking to tec eng is only a dealer thing,, and is only for real problem cars,
all they want is as much info about the car and how when and were did it fualt, thats why i say no to clearing codes and there will be alot of unrelated codes int he car that might actuly help us fix your car,

there is nothing saying that if a car has had this fualt to recall it and give it the new download, its more of a case of if it failed again, witch i dout it will,

id wate a week or 2 befor going in asking for the update, but id just do it next service at any land rover dealer,

[wintonwanderers]

Thank you Stig 0000, I will ask for the upgrade at the next service as you suggest. Car is still running well now, so as you say, it may never happen again. But I will still get an "Automate" just in case. It could sit in the car and do nothing, but then again it might get me out of trouble when I'm miles from any help. Speaking of help, THANK YOU for yours. I do appreciate all your knowledge and your willingness to share it here.
wintonwanderers.