Fitted an Ashcroft Locker

[Capstan]

I just fitted an Ascroft Locker to the rear of my 1985 Rangie along with some 24 spline axles. I was very impressed with the machining, very pretty. Ritters set up the crown and pinion for me but I put it back in.

[isuzutoo-eh]

I had my Ashcroft Torque Biasing LSD fitted last week, I agree, the machining is exquisite.

[walker]

I just fitted an Ascroft Locker to the rear of my 1985 Rangie along with some 24 spline axles. I was very impressed with the machining, very pretty. Ritters set up the crown and pinion for me but I put it back in.

About time! No all you need is some decent tyres and you can come out on some REAL trips with us. :p

[Vern]

I had my Ashcroft Torque Biasing LSD fitted last week, I agree, the machining is exquisite.How's it go? Whats the difference between it and a trutrac?

[isuzutoo-eh]

I've never driven a Trutrac'ed vehicle to compare...going from open diffs though the steering is a little heavier, but not a lot. Mine is in the front of my County. Ask me next week and I'll have forgotten its there. Unfortunately the install coincided with my steering damper failing so I had second thoughts for the first few days but it isn't the ATB diff's fault.
From what Ashcrofts told me, Trutracs have three side gears, the Ashcroft ATB has 6, so is effectively much stronger. It also worked out cheaper than the same TT. The ATB isn't available for the Salisbury/yet.

[Vern]

Just looking for front diff options, not sure whether to go locker or lsd thingy. Stick it in and forget about it is the bit i like:)

[rovercare]

I've never driven a Trutrac'ed vehicle to compare...going from open diffs though the steering is a little heavier, but not a lot. Mine is in the front of my County. Ask me next week and I'll have forgotten its there. Unfortunately the install coincided with my steering damper failing so I had second thoughts for the first few days but it isn't the ATB diff's fault.
From what Ashcrofts told me, Trutracs have three side gears, the Ashcroft ATB has 6, so is effectively much stronger. It also worked out cheaper than the same TT. The ATB isn't available for the Salisbury/yet.

Trutrac has 3 gears left, 3 gears right and 2 side gears, never touched an ashcroft yet

[Didge]

Hi Mark, if you don't mind me asking what did it cost and what are the advantages over a locker? And don't LSD's get that wind up problem happening when travelling in reverse? Probably stupid question I know, but I've only got limited knowledge on diffs. Oh, and what's the torque biasing about?
cheers Gerald

[isuzutoo-eh]

Gerald, thats a clever question.
A selectable locker such as ARB, Maxidrive, Jacmac or Ashcroft solidly locks the right and left axles together when selected, or runs as a normal diff when not selected.
Detroit and Kaiser lockers are called auto-lockers, these lock the left and rigt axles together at all times, but when one wheel needs to travel faster than the other, such as around roundabouts, the axle unlocks via a strong ratchet-these lockers can make clicking noises as the ratchet unlocks momentarily. Importantly, no axle can move slower than the crownwheel, but can move faster. Automatic lockered vehicles sometimes get described as 'skipping' around corners, as the locking mechanism locks and unlocks.
Limited Slip Diffs allow the left and right axles to move at different speeds at all times, they are never solidly locked across. This is the same as an open diff. With an open diff, if one wheel has no traction, ie in the air or slippery mud, that wheel will spin and the other wheel won't get any torque.
The LSD has internal gadgetry, of which there are two varieties. This gadgetry allows the slipping wheel to spin, but biases the amount of spin. I gather most LSDs are biased 60:40 or thereabouts. That means the slipping wheel gets 60% of the torque available, whilst the wheel with grip gets 40%. Net result is you get 40% of available torque on the ground to keep you moving. Much better than nothing. As I understand it the freely spinning wheel actually needs some resistance to make the internal gadgetry do its thing otherwise it acts as an open diff.
The two types of internal gadgetry are torque plates, much like clutch plates, which when warmed up by slipping, grab together to sort-of lock the axles together. This type needs a lot of adjustment to keep working effectively, as the 'clutch' plates wear. These diffs require LSD oil too, so another flavour of oil to keep in stock. Hiluxes and some nissans come with plate type LSDs from factory.
The other LSD type is what Trutracs and the Ashcroft ATB (Automative Torque Biasing) diffs are, which is a geared diff. These have worm gears instead of the bevel gears that open diffs have. One of the characterisitics of a worm gear, is they are hard to reverse drive. Ie, using a wormwheel to drive a worm gear is very inefficient, there is a lot of friction, and the forces applied aren't applied in the most effective direction.
This all means that the inefficiently driven worms allow a small amount of speed difference between the two axles, but the torque required to have one side's worm gears completely free spinning is phenomenal, so part of the torque goes the easier route, through the wheel that has traction. The torque is biased towards the free spinning wheel, but there is still that 40% or so available to the wheel with traction. Unlike plate (clutch) type LSDs, geared type LSDs don't ever require adjusting, and use standard gear oil.

If that made sense, I will teach you japanese whilst speaking pig romanian with a pikey accent.

Oh yeah costs, 370 squid had it landed on my doorstep.

[Didge]

Mark, that was a great explanation and thankyou for it. I did already understand in basic terms the final result of the different diff types but not how they work. So reversing down a track isn't going to be an problem for you anyway as I've already noticed you never back down from a challenge. It's always full steam ahead!! :) 370 squid sounds like a pretty good price to me.

[LowRanger]

Just another small input:You will probably need to learn to adjust your driving style slightly to make the most out of it,where if you apply the brakes slightly if you have a front wheel spinning,it will apply more torque to the non spinning wheel and help get you out of where ever you are stuck.But in some places there is just no substitute for a full locker.

Wayne

[Didge]

Ok, whilst you diff knowledgable boffins are on this thread, which would you suggest is the best locker for a rear salisbury in a 96 def?
I've got a 4wdaction mag that does the locker comparison but I think they're heavily sponsered by TJM and ARB and in their conclusion they basically said all the lockers are good but it depends on what you want. That's why I ask now. ps the Lokka brand don't do them for permanent 4wd which is a shame cos they're the cheapest and also automatic :(
cheers Gerald

[clubagreenie]

How would the Ashcroft benefit then from TC in a D2 which will brake the spinning wheel. Seems that it would work well together.

[isuzutoo-eh]

The Ashcroft ATB LSD would be the same as using Trutracs, from what I understand, when coupled with traction control they are almost as good as a full locker, yet a lot gentler on the mechanicals. I don't have any practical experience to know for sure though...
If you are talking about the Ascroft selectable locker as this thread was meant to be about ;), then it'd react just like an ARB or MD locker with TC...

Gerald I'm hanging out till/if Ashcroft release a selectable locker for the Salisbury. Cheaper than any other selectable locker worth looking at, and with improvements over the ARB type. If money wasn't an issue then i'd go Maxidrive, mainly due to ARB's reputation, whereas I chose the Ashcroft LSD due to Ashcroft's positive reputation.

[Capstan]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/949.jpg

:wasntme:

[LowRanger]

How would the Ashcroft benefit then from TC in a D2 which will brake the spinning wheel. Seems that it would work well together.

What you find with vehicles fitted with TC is that as soon as the revs build up the TC stops working,so the idea with TC is that you need to keep the revs down

Wayne

[LowRanger]

Ok, whilst you diff knowledgable boffins are on this thread, which would you suggest is the best locker for a rear salisbury in a 96 def?
I've got a 4wdaction mag that does the locker comparison but I think they're heavily sponsered by TJM and ARB and in their conclusion they basically said all the lockers are good but it depends on what you want. That's why I ask now. ps the Lokka brand don't do them for permanent 4wd which is a shame cos they're the cheapest and also automatic :(
cheers Gerald

Didge
Take what you read in magazines with a grain of salt,a lot of the comments are made to appease the advertisers.I think that everyone has an opinion on what is best,funnily enough a lot of people that have never had a locker tend to voice their opinions as well.I have a McNamara locker in the front and a Detroit in the rear of mine,and I know there are a lot of people out there that don't have too many positive remarks regarding the Detroits.I think they are relating experiences with the older type Detroits.The Newer No Spins are not noisey and in a 110 the only time you know you have it fitted is if you drive on your lawn and make a turn,when you get out,you can see where the tyres have been biting into the ground:D.I run 35's as you have seen,and certainly don't take it easy on the truck,but I find the fact that there is instant traction that I don't have to think about switching on to be a big plus,and it was less than half the price of an air locker from the U.S.Unfortunately I don't see Ashcrofts making a locker any time soon to suit a Salisbury,as they don't seem to make much for them at all.If they did,that would probably be my first choice if I was just starting out.

Wayne

[LowRanger]

The Ashcroft ATB LSD would be the same as using Trutracs, from what I understand, when coupled with traction control they are almost as good as a full locker, yet a lot gentler on the mechanicals. I don't have any practical experience to know for sure though...
If you are talking about the Ascroft selectable locker as this thread was meant to be about ;), then it'd react just like an ARB or MD locker with TC...

Gerald I'm hanging out till/if Ashcroft release a selectable locker for the Salisbury. Cheaper than any other selectable locker worth looking at, and with improvements over the ARB type. If money wasn't an issue then i'd go Maxidrive, mainly due to ARB's reputation, whereas I chose the Ashcroft LSD due to Ashcroft's positive reputation.

Mark
While definately better than an open diff,it does take some fancy pedal work to get the TrueTracs to be anywhere near as good as a full locker,even allowing for adjustable torque biasing even when fitted to a vehicle with TC.Lou's vehicle at Yalwal is a perfect example,once the front wheel was in the air,the vehicle was just like a vehicle fitted with an open diff.With a locker I am sure the vehicle would have pulled through the mud and up the hill like Baz did.

Wayne

[LowRanger]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/949.jpg

:wasntme:

Ahhhhh yes
I see 3 rows of lockers,must be a picture of your front,middle and rear lockers there Capstan:D

[OffTrack]

What you find with vehicles fitted with TC is that as soon as the revs build up the TC stops working,so the idea with TC is that you need to keep the revs down


According to D2 RAVE Brakes > Operation :


The ETC function uses brake intervention to prevent wheel spin and maintain even torque distribution to the wheels.
ETC is automatically enabled while the brakes are off at speeds up to 62.5 mph (100 km/h), and operates the brakes
either individually or in axle pairs:

At speeds up to 31.3 mph (50 km/h), ETC uses individual brake intervention to maintain even torque distribution
between wheels on the same axle.
Vehicles up to 03 model year – At speeds between 0 and 62.5 mph (0 and 100 km/h), ETC also uses brake
intervention in axle pairs to maintain even torque distribution between the front and rear axles. In effect, this mode
of operation replaces the centre differential lock of the transfer box which, although still incorporated, is non
operational under normal driving conditions.
Vehicles from 03 model year (with differential lock fitted) – At speeds between 0 and 62.5 mph (0 and 100
km/h), ETC uses brake intervention in axle pairs to maintain even torque distribution between the front and rear
axles. If the centre differential lock is in the locked condition, the differential lock warning lamp in the instrument
pack is illuminated. The ABS, EBD, ETC and HDC functions are retained, but with revised parameters to suit the
locked differential.


While the ETC function is enabled, if the SLABS ECU detects a wheel accelerating faster than the average, indicating
loss of traction, it operates the ABS modulator in the active braking mode. Depending on the vehicle speed, active
braking is employed for either the brake of the affected wheel or for both brakes on the affected axle, until all four
wheels are driven at approximately the same speed again. During active braking the SLABS ECU also illuminates the
ETC warning lamp, for a minimum of 2 seconds or for the duration that ETC is active. ETC operation is desensitised
during 'hard' cornering.

For the D2 at least road/wheel speed determines ETC operation.

[rovercare]

What you find with vehicles fitted with TC is that as soon as the revs build up the TC stops working,so the idea with TC is that you need to keep the revs down

Wayne

Actually, quite the opposite to what you've said is true

[clubagreenie]

So for a pre 03 D2 with a CDL fitted, fitting a later SLABS unit should give you the revised ops based on the CDL on signal. Unless someone knows if all SLABS units have the parameters programmed in and it's only the CDL signal missing to activate it.

[Catmatt]

I'm having a CDL fitted to my 02 D2 at the end of the month. All of the mechanical business's I have spoken to and read up on this and other 4WD forum's seem to have a wide collective agreement that.....Having a centre diff lock as well as traction control - is the best of both worlds ;)

I used to have a D1 with factory CDL and know the benefits. I now have a D2 without CDL but with factory fitted Traction Control so know the benefits of this system (And its shortcomings)

Happy to report back once it is fitted as I'm looking forward to the extra benefit of being able to lock the centre diff and let it and TC do there work together :cool:

[LowRanger]

Actually, quite the opposite to what you've said is true

That is strange,as all the vehicles that I have been out with that have TC need to reduce the wheel speed to allow the TC to work.

Wayne

[clubagreenie]

I can say the same actually. In very slippery clay just try to keep a constant rpm irrespective of apparent wheel speed and it just keeps moving with the TC light glowing it's heart out. Tried it both with and without CDL engaged and also with/without TC connected since I could.

No CDL/no TC just a dogs breakfast (on par with driving any other brand of 4X4).
With CDL/no TC was just like you'd expect. Like a RRC with open diffs.
No CDL/with TC was better than above, I think because even though one wheel spinning would loose drive fore/aft the TC controlled the spin and as such controlled the center diff.
CDL/TC was just like driving on a slippery surface without wheel spin. There was sliding sideways as grip was limited by rut/no rut situation and also the slower you went the less the tyres cleaned themselves but you had the ability to rev it up and clean them out and return to a sensible speed.

[clubagreenie]

There's another thread which is about replacing the slabs units but is pertinent to D2's and CDL's etc. The revised later SLABS units apparently are programmed to now about the CDL and it's effects and so you don't need to cut any wiring.

[blitz]

I have ARB lockers front and rear on my 94 Disco they have operated faultlessly for over ten years that I have had them in and would recomend them to anyone.

I prefer manual lockers to the automatic types as there are times when I want the full open diff and others when I want the whole lot locked up. They got used all the time for the first seven or so years and not so much of late due to a lack of time to go and play. there is a but though, if you forget to unlock them or they jam on for any reason then you could be in for some big repair $$

[PAT303]

That is strange,as all the vehicles that I have been out with that have TC need to reduce the wheel speed to allow the TC to work.

Wayne

I've had the TC on in my L322 at 100 and in the puma at walking pace so either way works. Pat