D4 & LED Caravan Lights

[John & Deb]

Hi All,
Just took possession of our new D4 (2.7) 2 weeks ago, and been enjoying all the informative discussion, and enjoying the D4 even more!

Does anyone know definitvely whether the D4 (2.7) has resolved the issue of not recognising LED lights on trailers & caravans? There seem to be different views as to whether it's been resolved or not. We're due to pick up our new caravan towards the end of the year, with LED lights. I'm happy to fork out for that contraption from Linear Electronic Design if I need it, but I don't want to buy it if it turns out that I don't need it.

[Graeme]

LED trailer lights wont cause the D4's trailer indicator to show. Even my trailer's 21W incandescant globes wont (perhaps the cabling is too light), but IMO the reliability of LEDs makes the indicator unnecessary.

[mowog]

In my case the the indicators wont work unless my Linear Electronic Design box is turned on. Given you are getting a Lotus van my bet is you will have the same problem.

The best bet is find an auto electrician with a set of test lights or plug into another van and try it.

[Wirraway]

With our MY11 D4 we found that the LED trailer lights worked straight from the plug but to get the trailer light on the dash to work, which would indicate the vehicle knows the trailer is connected and do things like switching off the rear parking sensors, we went with the Linear Electronic Design box and everything's sweet.

[101RRS]

You could make your own using 4 of the Narva resistors designed for the job and some trailer plugs for about $100.

Garry

[pohm66]

Hey Garrycol,

Sounds interesting... more info please......

[Graeme]

I've bought 4 50W 6 Ohm resistors (50W for better heat dissipation - only 25W is needed) from ebay for a total cost of $7. I've determined that to reliabily get the parking sensors to disable, a load equivalent to 1 21W globe is needed on each blinker wire and 2 on the stop-light wire. I'll attach the module permanently to the trailer wiring harness inside the left rear cubby-hole and use a diode with each resistor so that a single pole toggle switch can be used with a common earth.

Edit: 6 Ohms equates to 24W globes which might even make my trailer indicator work.

[101RRS]

Hey Garrycol,

Sounds interesting... more info please......


Go to Repco - they are in the trailer light fitting section - they are large resistor with a heat sink - marketed as for use on cars that have trouble operating LEds.

Garry

[robbotd5]

No problems with my '04 D2a!!!
I know, i'm no help!!!
Regards
Robbo

[harlie]

Read this entire thread. http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/85396-led-trailer-lights.html

[robbotd5]

Read this entire thread. http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/85396-led-trailer-lights.html
Ok, so what if I don't have the green flashing trailer symbol on the dash. The LED trailer lights still work.
Regards
Robbo

[Redback]

OK so this might be an obvious question or a stupid one, if the D3/D4/RRS are fitted with a factory tow package, then why isn't one of these devices fitted to the car by Land Rover?? if this problem occures when towing a trailer with LEDs with these vehicles.

Baz.

[harlie]

Ok, so what if I don't have the green flashing trailer symbol on the dash. The LED trailer lights still work.
Regards
Robbo
To get the trailer symbol on the dash of the D2 you just need a resistor between the + & - of each indicator, but why bother, LEDs are reliable and all you would be doing is adding a heat source, D2 send power to the trailer whether its there or not. Problem later cars have is that they need to know that a trailer is present.

[harlie]

OK so this might be an obvious question or a stupid one, if the D3/D4/RRS are fitted with a factory tow package, then why isn't one of these devices fitted to the car by Land Rover?? if this problem occures when towing a trailer with LEDs with these vehicles.

Baz.

OH Baz - don't get me started on LR and the dealers re this. At least they could turn around and say that it functions fine with standard incandescent globes BUT what about the EU wiring to the plug?????? Tail lights on a brown wire in Pin 5, where the brakes should be (on blue), fog light on a blue wire on pin 2 – before you tow anything with brakes you have to take to the harness with pliers and a soldering ion.

Why when the cars are fitted with a tow pack; is it not for Australia??? Let alone LEDs, the factory (expansive) trailer wiring is only good for a trailer with globes and <750kg. ie bow trailer or a small tinnie…

[Redback]

OH Baz - don't get me started on LR and the dealers re this. At least they could turn around and say that it functions fine with standard incandescent globes BUT what about the EU wiring to the plug?????? Tail lights on a brown wire in Pin 5, where the brakes should be (on blue), fog light on a blue wire on pin 2 – before you tow anything with brakes you have to take to the harness with pliers and a soldering ion.

Why when the cars are fitted with a tow pack; is it not for Australia??? Let alone LEDs, the factory (expansive) trailer wiring is only good for a trailer with globes and <750kg. ie bow trailer or a small tinnie…

Well I didn't know this:eek: that makes it even more rediculous:o

They must know this is and has been a problem for a while, they can't be that out of touch, can they:confused:

Baz.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

so they have to make a tow pack for every different country in the world?
yea, right!

[harlie]

so they have to make a tow pack for every different country in the world?
yea, right!

there are only 2 - Americas, asia, us and a few more OR EU, Africa ect.... and it only the loom that is different.

As it stands you have to either figure it out for yourself (and have the trailer brakes lock up when the auto headlights turn on) or pay the dealer to do the mod - so they obviously know about it, so why is the mod not done when the tow pack is supplied?? We are talking about vehicles in the $70k-$230k range, where the tow pack costs what 1500-2000? to tow a box trailer??? Even with a box trailer the range Rover still displays errors constantly with out the mod...

[Redback]

so they have to make a tow pack for every different country in the world?
yea, right!

All the other manufacturers seem to be able to do it!!!

After all, they manage to put the steering wheel on the correct side:cool:

[101RRS]

there are only 2 - Americas, asia, us and a few more OR EU, Africa ect.... and it only the loom that is different.

As it stands you have to either figure it out for yourself (and have the trailer brakes lock up when the auto headlights turn on) or pay the dealer to do the mod - so they obviously know about it, so why is the mod not done when the tow pack is supplied?? We are talking about vehicles in the $70k-$230k range, where the tow pack costs what 1500-2000? to tow a box trailer??? Even with a box trailer the range Rover still displays errors constantly with out the mod...


Or better still why have it going through the computer to tell us a trailer is connected and switch off the parking sensors.

Why not the old system that has been in place from the 50s that detects the trailer lights and lights up a light on the dash (my dad's 1965 Valiant had it) and a manual switch to turn off the sensors - oh we already have one.

Why is it necessary for everything to go through computers on these cars.

Garry

[harlie]

so they have to make a tow pack for every different country in the world?
yea, right!

Actually they already do for the hitch itself. The tongue supplied here in Aus is very different to the hitch supplied in the UK

[Grappler]

Yes, it sure is wierd that a high tech can bus system is used to tell you a trailer is connected, but cant detect a LED.

My RRS 07 also constatly pulses the indicators, (even when not indicating) with a LED trailer. This is the can-bus interogating for the presence of a trailer.

I installed 8ohm dummy loads for the L and R indicators and that solved the problem of the vehicle not sensing the trailer, but the trailer still strobed like an emergency response vehicle. The solution was to include auto relays in each of the indicator circuits. See pics attached of my homemade solution. All other circuits pass direct through to the trailer

The parts cost less than $100 including the alloy IP6 box and plug and socket.
The circuit also allows the traction control to disable the raising suspesnion, automatically, when selecting rockcrawl. It also defeats the rear parking sensors when it is attached.

[wires]

G'day mates

A little history about the trailer towing saga.

All vehicles manufactured and or sold in the EU must conform to the E/ECE/324 – E/ECE/TRANS/505 European trailer lighting regulations. Not only are the wire colours and the pin usages in the connectors different to the Australian standard but the EU also has two tail light circuits where we have only one.

I agree that the Australian dealers should convert the trailer wiring to the Australian standard before handing over the vehicle to a customer. A couple of dealerships that I know of in the Sydney region do (or at least did do) the conversions. But it didn't always happen.

If I remember correctly, a long while ago, Land Rover Australia did sent out a bulletin to the dealerships about doing the trailer wiring conversions. Perhaps it is time for Land Rover Australia to get up the dealerships for not doing the conversions???


Lamps (light bulbs) on the trailer draw lots of current (amps) and are easy for the computers in the vehicle to recognise. LEDs draw little current and are very difficult to RELIABLY monitor as only a little dirt or corrosion in the trailer connector or wiring can give lamp failure warnings even when the LEDs appear to be working and, of course, lamp failures can cause other problems also. (see below)

The vehicle’s computers are informed when a trailer is connected so that their safe towing features can be activated

Body Computer – enables the operation of the trailer telltale in the Instrument Cluster (a legal requirement in many jurisdictions). The rear fog and reversing lights on the vehicle are disabled to eliminate the reflected glare, back into the vehicle, from front surfaces of the trailer and the rear parking aid sensors are disabled.

Suspension – at highway speeds automatic changes to ride height are disabled to reduce the possibility of directional instability in the vehicle/trailer combination.

Anti-Lock Brakes, Stability and Traction Control – when in motion alternate strategies can be applied to control the dynamics of the vehicle/trailer combination.

Power Train Control – engine fuelling, throttle response, automatic transmission shift points, enhanced dynamic engine braking, etc. for the vehicle/trailer combination.

Trailer lighting – stopsthe park, stop and turn signal LEDs on the trailer from continuously blinking.
Note: not all vehicles have all of the above functions

Sure you can make up your own adaptor or have someone make one for you if you are not all that handy with power tools and a soldering iron. BUT!!!!!!

Safe towing to you all

Wires

[bbyer]

I installed 8 ohm dummy loads for the L and R indicators and that solved the problem of the vehicle not sensing the trailer, but the trailer still strobed like an emergency response vehicle. The solution was to include auto relays in each of the indicator circuits. See pics attached of my homemade solution. All other circuits pass direct through to the trailer.

The circuit also allows the traction control to disable the raising suspension, automatically, when selecting rock crawl. It also defeats the rear parking sensors when it is attached. The question is really about the comment where "all other circuits pass thru".

Do your trailers have brake lights bulbs separate from the signal light bulbs?

Like your D3, the LR3 has the brake light bulbs separate from the signal light bulbs, but on our trailers, for the most part, the brake light and signal light are the same 21 watt filament located in the same bulb.

The LR NAS harness wiring combines the filaments so all works fine as long as the trailer has the old style filament bulbs. I was considering building an adapter box but I wondered if I can just ignore the brake light circuit?

I figure that I can as there is no separate brake light conductor in the NAS trailer plug. Also for what we call the tail lights or running lights, I presume that circuit can be ignored and "just run thru" as that circuit is the same as your D3 and is not monitored. That would make sense as during the day, only the signal and brake lights would be powered - well we have daytime running lights here so the tail lights are illuminated all the time.

Hence the question, are the brake and signal filaments in trailers in Australia combined or separate? I suspect separate, same as the vehicles.

[101RRS]

Separate - like most places in the world :)