300 Tdi won't start...just out of the blue!

[Young Angus]

Okay so far my recently acquired 300 Tdi D1 has been spectacular, haven't had a problem.

It's also got a Bee Utey diesel gas fumigation system installed. It is a manual and a '96 model.

Used to belong to Big Guy on this forum...bloody brilliant vehicle it is :D

Anyway I've taken it on a couple of pretty long drives already and it hasn't skipped a beat. Tonight I was driving it over to our cousins place for the first time to show them the car since they are big 4WD enthusiasts and he owns a nice Patrol but used to be a Rover guy (and I think still is deep down). We drove about three quarters of the way there and stopped to pick something up from the shops. When I got back in the car and started it up it made a horrible loud clatter for a short second and then it went away and ran normally, it wasn't a noise that I'd ever heard before and it sounded bad, like a really loud diesel clatter. So I got suss and stopped the car, looked under the bonnet to see if anything was stuck in the fan or something stupid and tried again and got the same noise but like I said the car ran fine after it started with no noise. A really dry sounding noise almost like it was lacking oil on startup but then after startup enough oil got around the place and it was fine.

Anyway I started driving again hesitantly but got to my cousins place okay. Mind you when we stopped we'd been driving for about twenty minutes already and had already stopped once to fill up on LPG. We drove the rest of the way (probably another fifteen minutes) and no problems. When I got to the cousins I stopped the car and started it again to see if it was still there and it still made the noise.

Went inside and came out with my cousin the former Rover guy and tried to start it but only this time it wouldn't start at all. Gave it a bit of accelerator pedal and after a while cranking it over it started up okay with a giant puff of smoke out the back so it seemed like the engine was well flooded. Ran as normal after startup.

Went inside and had dinner then came out to go home afterwards and again it wouldn't start, gave it some pedal and it puffed out a huge cloud of smoke and started...but no horrible dry rattle this time.

Drove it home no issues and I'll try it again in the morning but maybe by then someone might have given an insight as to what might be going on. I tried searching but only found info on Td5's making a similar noise.

I'm going to be driving it interstate on a band gig trip in a month or so so I need to make sure it's all spot on and I'll happily take it to Ritters to have a look since it just got a decent service from them but if anyone knows what it might be maybe I can save myself the trip.

[isuzurover]

The diesel clatter sounds like detonation.

Have you tried turning the LPG off?

Could also be an injector issue.

Also - does the glow plug light light up? What does it start like if you turn the ignition on till the glow plug light goes out, then off, then repeat 3 times, then try to start???

[Casper]

Don't stress about the glow plugs, mine have not worked for about 4 years and it starts on the coldest days with a bit of white smoke.

I know i'm going to get flamed for it but I only found out when I did the head gasket and found they had been disconnected and the last time I had disconnected them was about 4 years ago and must have forgotten to reconnect them.

Anyways, on pulling them out to have the head crack tested, I tested them and found none of them to be working, so I put them back in and forgot about them again :D

It sounds like it could have copped a bit of air in the fuel line, or in the pump for some reason, I have had similar a couple of years ago after getting some bad fuel and having to flush the lines and pump.

May also be bad fuel or a bit of water in the fuel passing which is not very good and you may want to drain your tank and just check as that can cause some pretty nasty damage.

I don't know why it would do it on starting only though once running these things will just about run on anything.

Would it be possible for the Dgas to be feeding the engine on start up by any chance, making it harder to ignite the diesel due to an over rich fuel mixture in the combustion chamber??? Just a thought...


Cheers Casper

[Young Angus]

The diesel clatter sounds like detonation.

Have you tried turning the LPG off?

Could also be an injector issue.

Also - does the glow plug light light up? What does it start like if you turn the ignition on till the glow plug light goes out, then off, then repeat 3 times, then try to start???

LPG on or off doesn't make a difference, in fact I think Bee Utey might even chime in and say that the LPG doesn't do anything on start up anyway, only when you're driving and you press the accelerator does it inject some gas...that's my understanding anyway.

The glow plug light does light up and then go off like normal and I did the "on off on off on off" three times before trying to start and it didn't make much difference. In fact just then when I did it this morning I couldn't get it to start at all. Almost as if it has a flat battery (even though I've got two of the things with a red arc isolator and both measure fine) it was cranking but started to sound tired and wouldn't fire, then I smelt a funny smell and looked at the exhaust pipe and a small amount of white smoke was trickling out. When I bought the car Frank told me that I might want to change the main battery sometime soon but I wouldn't think that would account for some big nasty clattering noise on start up.

[Young Angus]

Don't stress about the glow plugs, mine have not worked for about 4 years and it starts on the coldest days with a bit of white smoke.

I know i'm going to get flamed for it but I only found out when I did the head gasket and found they had been disconnected and the last time I had disconnected them was about 4 years ago and must have forgotten to reconnect them.

Anyways, on pulling them out to have the head crack tested, I tested them and found none of them to be working, so I put them back in and forgot about them again :D

It sounds like it could have copped a bit of air in the fuel line, or in the pump for some reason, I have had similar a couple of years ago after getting some bad fuel and having to flush the lines and pump.

May also be bad fuel or a bit of water in the fuel passing which is not very good and you may want to drain your tank and just check as that can cause some pretty nasty damage.

I don't know why it would do it on starting only though once running these things will just about run on anything.

Would it be possible for the Dgas to be feeding the engine on start up by any chance, making it harder to ignite the diesel due to an over rich fuel mixture in the combustion chamber??? Just a thought...


Cheers Casper

Haha oops about the glow plugs ;)

Don't know if it could be bad fuel but I filled up last about 400km ago and it's been running fine since, the only thing that changed just before it started happening last night is that I filled up the little tiny LPG tank...then when I stopped next and started again it made the noise. I would have thought if it was bad fuel it would keep playing up even after it started not just on start up...?

[Young Angus]

Thanks for the replies...I honestly don't know a lot about diesel engines yet but maybe I'll learn quickly ;) I might try jump starting it later on and see if the battery is a problem because I know some of them can be stuffed even if they show up okay under a multi-meter...as soon as they get load on them they die. Something ain't quite right though, but I'll get to the bottom of it!

(or someone at Ritters will)

[isuzurover]

LPG on or off doesn't make a difference, in fact I think Bee Utey might even chime in and say that the LPG doesn't do anything on start up anyway, only when you're driving and you press the accelerator does it inject some gas...that's my understanding anyway.

Yes, that is how it should work, but it may be malfunctioning.

The clatter you describe sounds like detonation - e.g. you get noises like that if you use aerostart on a diesel.

You should be able to tell if it is cranking slower than normal??? Have you put a multimeter on the batteries?

Diesels just need fuel and air to start.

The injectors deliver extra fuel during starting.

[Young Angus]

Hmm so what if the glow plugs had started playing up would that mean that it wouldn't start the car when it should and the injectors would keep pumping fuel into the engine thinking it had started but it would just get flooded.

Hmm sounds like there could be a couple of possibilities...might go out and try to start it again now.

[Young Angus]

Okay so it won't start at all now...still cranks over a couple of times trying to start but it won't fire so it sounds like the battery is okay. I'm going to have to start it somehow to get it down to Ritters on Monday if I can't sort it out before then...are there any other ways you can get a diesel engine going if it won't start normally? Like roll starting a petrol motor...will that work with a diesel? Mine is a manual...

[bee utey]

It sounds like your injector pump isn't pushing fuel. Did you get low on diesel? Check the fuel shut-off wire at the injector pump. They can fall off or come loose. You should hear the fuel shut-off "click" when the ignition switch goes to "on". Check the air filter hasn't swallowed a rag, or an intercooler hose has collapsed.

As for the lpg system, pm me your phone number and I can talk about it. Emailing takes too long to explain it.

[Ean Austral]

Have you taken the oil filler cap off to see if the tappets are moving when cranking. Some D1's had a bad batch of cam drive pully's and the belts rode off the pulley and broke.

Dont think your initial symptoms point that way, but maybe it could of started to go and the timing slipped before it finally broke...A long shot, but an easy check.

I think from memory the D1 fuel pump also has a fuse, could be worth checking..

Cheers Ean

[Young Angus]

Okay I didn't get low on fuel or anything...although I did probably leave it get pretty low before I filled up last time but it was still going fine but the "low fuel" light had just come on. It's been running for the past 460km just fine though so surely if getting too low on fuel had done some damage wouldn't it had shown up straight away?

I had gone out and checked the air filter before I read your post and there was nothing but a couple of dead bees in the box under the filter, but something I did notice was a pretty strong LPG smell when I took the top of the air filter box off. It went away but there was definitely some LPG sitting in there somewhere.

I'll have a look for that fuel shut off wire if there's enough light.

[Young Angus]

Just wondering how dead a battery has to be before it won't start a diesel engine like this one? Does it just need to be enough to do something very little or do I need a couple of cranks if it's flooded a little? Can a diesel engine even get flooded?

The reason I ask is that I can't seem to start my car at all now and after one or two very tired cranks the batter wears out and starts clicking, but I didn't think a diesel really needed much of a battery to start...???

[Young Angus]

Have you taken the oil filler cap off to see if the tappets are moving when cranking. Some D1's had a bad batch of cam drive pully's and the belts rode off the pulley and broke.

Dont think your initial symptoms point that way, but maybe it could of started to go and the timing slipped before it finally broke...A long shot, but an easy check.

I think from memory the D1 fuel pump also has a fuse, could be worth checking..

Cheers Ean

Cheers for that, checked the fuse and both fuse 6 and 7 still intact.

[luke68]

bad batteries can show 12.7V on the multimeter but won't crank at all, just clicks on the relay. New battery will only take a 1/4 to 1/2 turn of the engine to get going. This is all well and good if the starter is in good condition. Mine wore out the brushes down to the braided wire after 13yrs, and $300 later(New brushes installed) back to new and cranking well.
Gas smells in the airbox makes me think you have gas leaking into the induction system, just like crappy old falcon gas systems that would not let you start the car on petrol or gas.
See if you can clutch start the car on diesel only, even if it means disconnecting the gas system to make sure it's not the gas system causing the problems. Clutch starting should only take about 3-5metres if the engine is running properly on diesel. like others have said, check the fuel shutoff wire at the back of the injection pump. this also leads to the infamous "Spider" immobiliser headache.

Good luck.

PS: Ritter won't return calls on parts enquires. I gave up and am going to TRS spares in SA, cause i'm in Darwin. Was in Melb last week and they were pretty lazy with their sales support.

[big guy]

Hey mate

I just chimed in.

Sounds strange.

Should u try a push start, put in low range 2nd, that way only a little push over a short range is required.

I do believe when I put the two batteries in which are relatively new, your starter battery is not really up to the task. It takes a lot of grunt to crank a high compression motor.

Also, try and also get the plugs to warm up if you have them. There is a reason for them being there and means the temperature in your conbustion chamber is preheated and when the air gets compressed and fuel is added on maximum compression, less unburnt fuel is washed down side walls and out of exhaust. Engineers spend a lot of time and money on RD, Go with it.

Try jump starting from the 2nd battery perhaps.

It sounds very strange, u didnt put petrol in the tank at any stage???

[Young Angus]

Hehe nope definitely didn't put petrol in but you never know sometimes, I too will always ask the obvious questions because some people tend to overlook the most obvious things ;)

I spoke to Bee Utey and as he's mentioned before there is a small chance that when I filled up the LPG tank to full and drove a short distance then stopped a bit of LPG might have made its way into somewhere it shouldn't be, then made a bit of a mess next time I started it...could this account for the "detonation" noise I might have been hearing?

I remember you saying Big Guy that I should have swapped out the starter battery in your car for the brand new one I put in my other V8 but it was already part of the sale so I couldn't just pilfer it ;) I will get a new one though because like you say it's not the strongest battery and I think that may be my problem now...I just need to give it a good cranking and it will probably spew a bit of smoke and get going. Not sure if it's worth a trip to Ritters though.

I never start the car without the glow plug light going out, I've been driving diesels for a while now through work cars and am aware that it just starts straight away when the plugs are warm...that's if they're working properly I guess but I haven't had a problem with them so far. Did you ever put new glow plugs in?

I have a work car with a strong battery which I can jump start with but the silly problem is when I came home last I drove the Disco in to my driveway front first and I can't get the other damn car close enough for the leads to reach...IDIOT! I can roll it down the drive way and then jump it but if it doesn't go it will be stuck sticking out of my driveway nearly on to the road and I don't really want that!

What the heck...I'll give it a go and deal with it afterwards if it doesn't work hahahaha

[Young Angus]

Okay then I rolled it back and used the work car (a pretty horrible SsangYong Musso...seriously probably the worst car I've ever driven) with its nice big battery to jump start the Disco. It cranked a few times sounding a bit tired but wouldn't fire so I thought I was stuck there so I let it sit a bit more to charge up...then gave it another couple of cranks and it fired and away it went! Blew a big giant puff of smoke out the back which is probably all the fuel that was sitting in there from me trying previously but after that it ran fine. I even stopped it and started it again a few times to see if I heard that horrible loud clatter again but I couldn't hear it and it started first time every time no worries.

So in conclusion the injector pump seems to be fine, the fuel lift pump seems to be fine, and everything seems to be okay at this stage...apart from my start up battery so tomorrow on the way back from work I'm going to get me a good one to replace it with.

From all the information I've gathered about this and my LPG system from Bee Utey and my limited knowledge of everything I'm going to guess that the clatter noise that I heard first was a bit of LPG from a newly filled tank getting in to where it shouldn't be. Then because it worried me I sat there turning the car off and on a couple of times to see if the noise was still there and in the process flattened an already weak battery so much that when the car got home and sat overnight it didn't have any guts left the morning after hence not starting. I can only assume that now the LPG has been burnt out of where ever it shouldn't have been and hopefully I can avoid it happening again because the noise didn't sound all that flash.

Hopefully that's all it was...

[big guy]

Put that battery on charge if possible, Its still under warranty actually, receipt should be in the folder I gave.I believe its nationwide.

I never put new plugs in but had the ones in there tested and the spray pattern was fine. Took it to diesel tuner after the LPG was fitted and in conjunction with the EGT gauge had it checked and tuned bu a diesel tuner. Receipt should also be in the folder.

You may wanna check the alternator for charge rate but its a newish Alternator so that should check out o.k also.

To get you out of trouble, just swap batteries over, the 2nd one is not a cranking battery but will be fine for a little while.

Cheers

[Young Angus]

Put that battery on charge if possible, Its still under warranty actually, receipt should be in the folder I gave.I believe its nationwide.

I never put new plugs in but had the ones in there tested and the spray pattern was fine. Took it to diesel tuner after the LPG was fitted and in conjunction with the EGT gauge had it checked and tuned bu a diesel tuner. Receipt should also be in the folder.

You may wanna check the alternator for charge rate but its a newish Alternator so that should check out o.k also.

To get you out of trouble, just swap batteries over, the 2nd one is not a cranking battery but will be fine for a little while.

Cheers

Okay great I'll check that out, and I'll borrow my Dad's battery charger and put it on charge for a while.

Do you think I should try to resurrect that start up battery or should I just go and get a bigger one and be done with it? I might look into the warranty maybe I can exchange it for something bigger at a little more cost to me, if not a replacement will do fine.

[gazby]

Angus, You need two things to run an internal combustion engine, 1/ Oxygen 2/ fuel, and of course those elements must be in the correct proportions, Your thoughts that the LPG injection system is the culprit, would, I think be spot on. If for some reason LPG is injecting before the engine is started that would indeed give such a rich mixture in the cylinders deplete of that essential oxygen that the engine would not fire up easily on the starter or when it did eventually get enough oxygen into it, the massive fuel load will cause a severe detonation, (the start up noise you are hearing), which by the way has the potential to severely damage your engine.
Some of the first heavy transport trucks to be fitted with these LPG systems reportedly broke cranks, rods and destroyed pistons until systems were refined.
As previously advised, turn off the gas system at the bottle and see how that works out, there may be an issue with the injection system.

[Casper]

Put that battery on charge if possible, Its still under warranty actually, receipt should be in the folder I gave.I believe its nationwide.

I never put new plugs in but had the ones in there tested and the spray pattern was fine. Took it to diesel tuner after the LPG was fitted and in conjunction with the EGT gauge had it checked and tuned bu a diesel tuner. Receipt should also be in the folder.

You may wanna check the alternator for charge rate but its a newish Alternator so that should check out o.k also.

To get you out of trouble, just swap batteries over, the 2nd one is not a cranking battery but will be fine for a little while.

Cheers

Hey Big Guy, I think you might mean you had the injectors checked as glow plugs are just a small element that heats up the combustion chamber a little bit and doesnt spray anything.

The glow plugs are very easy to check.

Just disconnect the wire off the top of it (8mm 1/4 drive socket) being careful not to drop the nut, use a deep socket (can't recall what size) to pull one out at a time to keep them in order (just my pedantic ways) and by clamping the body/thread with the negative jumper lead clamp and holding the positive to the top where the nut was you will see it glow with in about 5 seconds.

If they take more than about 8 seconds they are getting old and wont work as your timer only lasts 8 seconds and if they dont glow at all, touch them on a piece of paper to see if they are getting hot at all ***not a good idea to actually touch them***.

The light will go on even with the glow plugs disconnected as they are on separate circuits from the timer, I know this as mine were disconnected for 4 years as previously mentioned.

300Tdi's will start in normal Australian conditions relatively easily without glowing and the GP's are there mainly for those few times where it will be colder than it will allow the diesel to ignite from the heat created by the compression only so don't stress about the glow plugs.

I would still if it is not starting easily when cold look at the filters and the lift pump as they both affect cold starting considerably and I know from experience that they will crank slow when low on fuel or when the lift pump does not pick up fast enough.

Glad to hear all is well though, put a good 600+ CCA battery in the bugger and they start well, I run twin Delcor Calcium batteries in mine, have done for 5 years and they are still going strong.

Pricey but well worth it, just make sure your alternator is charging at over 14volts and Calcium batteries will live for a long long time, if your staying with standard lead acid then you want it under 14volts or else they can have a shortened life.

Cheers Casper.

[big guy]

OOps. My mistake, had the injectors checked for pattern and plugs for glow.

I do agree to some degree with you and also not.

The 300 tdi is a old donk and as the air gets compressed and heats, the fuel(diesel or alternative oil as diesel were originally intended to run on) gets injected. The plugs prewarm the chamber to aid a more complete combustion.

I would still recommend especially now in winter here in Oz, I know its not 10C below but still cold it will not harm but reduce diesel getting washed down bores and reducing wear.

About 9 months ago I had the pleaseure of heaving both the head chef and one of the mechanical engineers from Mercedes in Bremen(North Germany).

Although some was lost in translation, I pretty much understood what he was trying to say.

He also funny enough adds a litre of petrol to the tank every now and than.
Not the newer diesels but likes of the Landy donk. Cleans fuel lines and injectors and is much cheaper than a dedicated injector cleaner.

Makes it go a bit better too.

Detleff(his name) has a 300d which has done over 500k km's he recons and frequent oil and filter changes are the key plus letting them warm up gradually by driving normally and also putting under load on a regular basis will prolong their live to stop glazing or something on the bores.

Anyhow Ben, I am pretty confident that a good charge will do wonders on the battery and as said at least 600cca starting battery.
The guys(auto electrician said that what is in there is what is recommended but by whom they never said.
They did a few things on the car at the time and I trusted them untill 3 months later when I did an oil change and found the little battery.
I actually went back and their anwer was that it starts and that is fine.

Well, it wasn't fine as I wanted a big ass cell there and they just did what they thought was right.
Although it never gave me trouble, I thought it never cranked as well as it could have.

Let me know how you get on.

Hi to your Mrs too.

[isuzurover]

Casper and Big guy are both correct.

Direct injection diesels (which the 300Tdi is), need glow plugs a lot less than IDI diesels.

200/300Tdis and 4BD1s will start quite happily anywhere in Australia in winter without glow plugs.

There are plenty of truck/tractor/industrial DI diesels around with compression ratios 18:1 or higher and no glow plugs.

The tdi and 4BD1 diesels are around 16:1.

It can't hurt to use glow plugs, but they shouldn't really be needed. I noticed that with the retarded ignition on my 300Tdi the glow plugs made a big difference.

[nice1guv]

The tdi and 4BD1 diesels are around 16:1.

The compression ratio of the 300Tdi is 19.5:1 . :) Reference is the owner's manual.

[isuzurover]

The compression ratio of the 300Tdi is 19.5:1 . :) Reference is the owner's manual.

Ah - cheers. I thought it was about the same as the 4BD1.

There are plenty of 19+ :1 diesels out there which were never fitted with glow plugs.

[Young Angus]

OOps. My mistake, had the injectors checked for pattern and plugs for glow.

I do agree to some degree with you and also not.

The 300 tdi is a old donk and as the air gets compressed and heats, the fuel(diesel or alternative oil as diesel were originally intended to run on) gets injected. The plugs prewarm the chamber to aid a more complete combustion.

I would still recommend especially now in winter here in Oz, I know its not 10C below but still cold it will not harm but reduce diesel getting washed down bores and reducing wear.

About 9 months ago I had the pleaseure of heaving both the head chef and one of the mechanical engineers from Mercedes in Bremen(North Germany).

Although some was lost in translation, I pretty much understood what he was trying to say.

He also funny enough adds a litre of petrol to the tank every now and than.
Not the newer diesels but likes of the Landy donk. Cleans fuel lines and injectors and is much cheaper than a dedicated injector cleaner.

Makes it go a bit better too.

Detleff(his name) has a 300d which has done over 500k km's he recons and frequent oil and filter changes are the key plus letting them warm up gradually by driving normally and also putting under load on a regular basis will prolong their live to stop glazing or something on the bores.

Anyhow Ben, I am pretty confident that a good charge will do wonders on the battery and as said at least 600cca starting battery.
The guys(auto electrician said that what is in there is what is recommended but by whom they never said.
They did a few things on the car at the time and I trusted them untill 3 months later when I did an oil change and found the little battery.
I actually went back and their anwer was that it starts and that is fine.

Well, it wasn't fine as I wanted a big ass cell there and they just did what they thought was right.
Although it never gave me trouble, I thought it never cranked as well as it could have.

Let me know how you get on.

Hi to your Mrs too.

I definitely just wait for the glow plugs to warm up each time and it starts first crank no problems...so long as the battery is up to it of course ;)

That's really interesting about the petrol...so would you genuinely say it's a good idea to put in a litre of petrol and run it through the car every now and then and this would be a "good" thing and wouldn't wreck anything? People are always so careful not to put normal petrol in a diesel...that'd be pretty interesting if that does good things for it though.

Cheers Frank, my wife says she's still after some of those crumple cups she saw at your place...I think you can get crumple glasses too, very cool design those things...not cheap though dammit hahaha I guess if I can have a Landy though she can have some crumple cups eh ;)

Thanks everyone for the info too, this really is a great forum.

[Casper]

Hey Big Guy, I'm not against glow plugs just that they are not the be all and end all when it comes to starting a 300tdi.

My Disco has now done 383,000kms and for about 200,000 of that I have not had the glow plugs working and it's still going strong.

Thanks Isuzu Rover for explaining it a bit better, I have seen several Deutz, Kubota and Yanmar engines big and small with de-compressors over glow plugs along with several small stationary engines such as Robin (Subaru) which do as well.

Mercedes had a de-compressor in one of their diesel cars as well, I can't recall the model but one of my old bosses had one and when I used to move it to wash it I used to get a laugh out of the huge puff of smoke when it started.

I always waited until the gardener was walking past to start it :D

Cheers Casper

[big guy]

I hear you all and seen much of the glow plug debate.
Not until a trained engineer has explained it to me, have I taken the time to always start on plugs, I even wait for the Navara glow plugs to pre-heat.
My wife on the other hand in the Golf is always in a hurry and just gets in and goes.
At least I try.

With the petrol thing, I admit I often put a litre in the tank with the petrol and was fine.
As far as doing damage, I will not put my name to it but surely can't do any worse than injector cleaner?!

Give it ago and see. Those old 300 tdi's I build tough, very tough and the pumps from my info I got from the net can take it too.

Now, the crumple cups are wicked and only last week, did a friend brake another one and now will have to get another.
I will look into the glasses too, might get some for the Bar.

Cheers mate and fingers crossed it all works out.

Perhaps a battery charger would not go astray in your shed either, always very handy.

Cheers

[Sparksdisco]

Now, the crumple cups are wicked and only last week, did a friend brake another one and now will have to get another.
I will look into the glasses too, might get some for the Bar.



Cheers


off topic,
but what are these crumple cups you are talking about?

[Casper]

I hear you all and seen much of the glow plug debate.
Not until a trained engineer has explained it to me, have I taken the time to always start on plugs, I even wait for the Navara glow plugs to pre-heat.
My wife on the other hand in the Golf is always in a hurry and just gets in and goes.
At least I try.

With the petrol thing, I admit I often put a litre in the tank with the petrol and was fine.
As far as doing damage, I will not put my name to it but surely can't do any worse than injector cleaner?!

Give it ago and see. Those old 300 tdi's I build tough, very tough and the pumps from my info I got from the net can take it too.

Now, the crumple cups are wicked and only last week, did a friend brake another one and now will have to get another.
I will look into the glasses too, might get some for the Bar.

Cheers mate and fingers crossed it all works out.

Perhaps a battery charger would not go astray in your shed either, always very handy.

Cheers

I have also put some petrol in the tank from time to time mainly on long runs and I have seen an decrease in consumption and it has run better just like after using a good injector cleaner.

The magic number I use is 5% max and seems I have a 135ltr tank and normally put about 100 in at a fill then I put about 5ltrs in on a fill but then don't do it for a while to make sure it gets run through.

I love those crumple cups if they are what I'm thinking of.

My grand father had a set in a camping kit and are like a series of ever enlarging rings with the bottom of the smallest one (The bottom one) filled in and all lock to the outside of the next to make a cup (I think that would explain it) and can then be pushed down flat for storage.

If that's them I would love to know where to get them as well.

Cheers Casper

[big guy]

Crumple Cups — ACCESSORIES -- Better Living Through Design (http://www.betterlivingthroughdesign.com/accessories/crumple-cups.html)

When I had Ben and his wife come over from Vic, I made them a coffee, I am a bit of a coffee guy.
The cups we use at home are ceramic but look like a plastic version of the take-away type crumble cup.

Cheers

[Casper]

They are nothing like I thought you were talking about but I like them :D

Im talking more like these but they were plastic

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00FCBQhValHYpN/Folding-Cup-FH1688-K4-.jpg

But this is also good.

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00ZBqareVcEjoD/Folding-Cup-with-Beer-Openner-SWH19561-.jpg

[Sparksdisco]

Crumple Cups — ACCESSORIES -- Better Living Through Design (http://www.betterlivingthroughdesign.com/accessories/crumple-cups.html)

When I had Ben and his wife come over from Vic, I made them a coffee, I am a bit of a coffee guy.
The cups we use at home are ceramic but look like a plastic version of the take-away type crumble cup.

Cheers

They look like Very cool cups:cool::cool::cool:
will have to get some myself.

[Young Angus]

Those crumple cups are the coolest cups around...Franks coffee was pretty great too ;)

[big guy]

Now, how is the car shaping up? Sorted it out ?

[Young Angus]

Haha so what if we were getting a bit off topic ;) Car is okay now, I got the RACV to come and test the battery under warranty and a bloke came out but he didn't seem like he knew what I was doing...he was more interested in asking me about Discos because I think he'd seen one he liked that was cheap. Get this, he asked me what I thought about a Disco like mine that he saw for $3500...I said "mate you work for the RACV you should know how much trouble a cheap car can get you into!!! Then he proceeded to tell me that he didn't have the type of battery my Land Rover needed anyway even if it was deemed damaged!!!!#$#@%$@ So the upshot of it was (I think) that he said I should take it for a drive and if after another good charge it still plays up he'll come back with the right battery and replace it...but I got the vibe that if he had the right battery he would have just replaced it then and there...very vague guy, but at least he ran the tester across the battery and even though the little window in the top of it was "black" not "green" as it should be he said it was reading as still okay.

Took it to rehearsal last night which was a half hour drive and then when I got back in four hours later to come home it was fine so hopefully that means the battery is actually okay.

As for the noise I was hearing that didn't happen again, so I'm just going to make sure I turn off the LPG a minute or so before I get to wherever I'm going so as to make sure it's all burnt up and never start it with the LPG turned on...from what I've been able to grasp about the LPG system with my limited knowledge this should hopefully avoid any liquid LPG making its way into the combustion chamber. I hope Bee Utey can confirm if this is the correct way to avoid this happening again until I can get his mod on the converter to fix it up properly.

[big guy]

Ben
Thats good and bad.
I am sure the battery is not up to it.
Just call him back in 2 weeks and get him to up-spec it anyhow.
I was in a hurry when they installed and never checked till later.
Its under warranty and get a 600cca and be done with it, you don't want to think every time you get in "Oh I wonder if it will start?". Thats why you bought mine as most things were done very recently.

Peace of mind is worth it.

happy touring mate.

[B92 8NW]

Don't get an RACV battery. Whilst I think it's a great idea if you're stranded, I reckon you pay a premium and usually get a battery that is under spec and not the best quality.

There's a website advertising here doing Optima D34Ms for $275 shipped or do an Ebay search for Fullriver HC65. I have the latter and it is brilliant. Repco have 20% off with RACV card at the moment, I saw a D34 yellow top for $355, might pay to ask if the discount extends to optima batteries but thats a good saving.

[Young Angus]

Well there you go I just learned what a deep cycle battery is for the first time...there seem to be a few different Optima batteries, is the D34M just the one that fits in the Disco? Are the blue ones the best out of that range...they kind of all sound like they are very similar between the blue, yellow and red ones on the website...?

I agree Frank, I'd much rather just have a top of the range battery that I know won't let me down. The starter that's in there is actually a 600CCA while the secondary one is 525CCA. Took it for another drive last night and it again started with no hassles at all so all is okay for now but I'd still like a replacement because the little window on the top of the battery is black...unless it's a very VERY dark green.

The secondary batter is a Super Charge.

[big guy]

Ben
The secondary battery is a dual purpose, semi deep cycle specifically to run my fridge i had in the back.
Ran it for 48 hrs non stop set on low to medium most of the time.

Its also wired to the plug next to tow bar to run my camper lights etc when out and about or other portable 12 V devices.

I just think the battery is not very good.
I wasn't happy with it but they wouldn't change it over.
It looks small and you know size matters in all things Land ROver:p:p:p

[B92 8NW]

Well there you go I just learned what a deep cycle battery is for the first time...there seem to be a few different Optima batteries, is the D34M just the one that fits in the Disco? Are the blue ones the best out of that range...they kind of all sound like they are very similar between the blue, yellow and red ones on the website...?

I agree Frank, I'd much rather just have a top of the range battery that I know won't let me down. The starter that's in there is actually a 600CCA while the secondary one is 525CCA. Took it for another drive last night and it again started with no hassles at all so all is okay for now but I'd still like a replacement because the little window on the top of the battery is black...unless it's a very VERY dark green.

The secondary batter is a Super Charge.

Don't why I said M, D34 yellow is the best bet.

[Young Angus]

Just out of curiosity now what is actually the difference between the Optima blue D34M and yellow D34? The spec sheets basically say they are exactly the same battery but the blue one looks like it has a couple of extra terminals on the top...is that something just for boats?

I'm going to save my pennies and get one of those one day, sure sounds like a worry free battery!