L322 TD6 Inspection

[RR P38]

As all of us that own P38s think we need to upgrade to a newer RR i regularly keep an eye out for a replacement.
So today i inspected an 04 model with 175k on it.
Its beat up a bit body wise and the interior the description states that this is as to be expected for the age and milage.
My 38 is 9 years older and not as rough.
Under the hood the oil is like treacle and filthy and not much of it and is well down on the add oil mark????
Service book looks good apart from the last service which was nearly 15k ago.
New gear box fitted last year and a new turbo in 07.
Ingition key in and up pops check brake pads, Low coolant (which seemed fine by sight)
EAS is very slow to pump up.
Quite a few stuffed suspension bushes evident.
2 tires staked pretty bad in the side walls.
Rego out in 3 months.
This is at an auction house and i notice a lot of the bidders are from interstate and i would say have not seen this vehicle and it is over $30k.
More signs here of a very slack owner who just doesnt care too much for his ride.

[33chinacars]

Sounds like one to stay away from unless very cheep and your prepared to give it lots of TLC

Gary

[redandy3575]

I agree.....stay away from that one. Besides i've seen reasonably good ones for around 35k. Like the P38's, take your time and tread carefully.

In my situation at the moment, i'd trade to a later P38 some 2000 and up before going to the L322 unles a bargain comes along.:)

[RR P38]

I agree.....stay away from that one. Besides i've seen reasonably good ones for around 35k. Like the P38's, take your time and tread carefully.

In my situation at the moment, i'd trade to a later P38 some 2000 and up before going to the L322 unles a bargain comes along.:)

Yes im thinking likewise.
Im not that impressed with the overall dash layout, guages,switches,gps etc.
Ground clearance seems to be a bit lacking and plenty of soft stuff under the body to get wrecked on rough terrain.
The 38 still has a lot to offer for the money.

[p38arover]

Service book looks good apart from the last service which was nearly 15k ago.

I looked at one with 175,000km and its last service according to the handbook was the initial service at 12,500km! Someone hasn't kept the book up to date.

[Hoges]

Have been similarly " affected" ;)

The depreciation alone on a $40k problematic high mileage L322 buys a heck of a lot of TLC and pro-active reliability for the existing P38.

In another life certain folk had considerable expertise in Logistics as it applied to "predicting" reliability/maintainability (R&M). It involved often replacing stuff that appeared quite serviceable although it was either time/and or hours " expired".

A recent episode caused me to call out the RACQ via NRMA for the first time in 38 years!! and cool my heels in Tea Gardens for 2 nights and 3 days...could have been worse...all over a shot regulator in the alternator ....a $35 plus postage part....n/a in Australia (of course). Truck is 12yrs old and shows 136K km on the clock (& BECM).

This got me thinking about applying R&M principles to the P38 and preparing a sched. for the next five years.

I'm in a quandary but am thinking about this because SWMBO has other jobs for me to do and this is much more fun...and practical.:angel:

And likewise, I'll still keep and eye out for the elusive bargain diesel. low mileage L322 beautifully maintained, and being sold for sixpence by a divorcee wanting to upset her hubby even more... 'struth hope it's no-one from this forum:wasntme::D:angel:

[redandy3575]

Oh look, i'd love a L322. But going for cheap is the usual trap for buying a dud. I think at this stage 35k - 40k and above is playing save.

I think for me the latest L322 Rangie i'd be able to go is a 2005 model. Anything after that, i'd consider getting a Disco 3 or 4 due to the lack of off-road accessories on newer rangies. Unless Paul from Hard Range comes up with something new, i reckon it's curtains for Rangies. It's gone to far upmarket.

[DT-P38]

For the money of a L322 you can go "HRA whole hog" on a late model P38 (and put bucks away for a few years maintenance)...

I may have to eat my words one day, but why would you want to shift to an L322 when they are pretty well limited as anything more than a soft roader?

P.S., Don't be surprised if the HRA team end up playing with L322's, Andy has one already.

[PaulP38a]

The following is only 50% of the official Hard Range "party line":


P38's are the preferred weapon of choice
P38's are the new "Classic"
L322's are ok, but that is all
L322 diesels, like Andy's, do not sound like a V8 no matter how much he plays with it :p
Andy reckons his L322 accelerates better than my V8 P38's... maybe it does, but mine feel better :p
Fuel economy is better in a L322 ? (somehow this matters to somebody who is hugging a tree?) :o
A well sorted P38 is better value than a cheap L322
P38 transmissions can be serviced
L322 transmissions are "sealed for life" :o
L322's are far more complicated to work on than a P38 for a home mechanic
Pre-2005 L322's are "better to hack/diagnose" as they use the simpler BMW CAN-Bus rather than the more secure Ford/Jag system

For a few years I have loved the idea of a RRS but cannot bring myself to commit $50k+ to something I would be scared to take off-road for fear of scratching and/or damaging. I don't have that problem with a $10-20k P38 that I can comfortably fix most problems with the tools I carry.

Andy is well in to mods for the L322 already, and perhaps I will get in to the RRS later after the pimps, dealers and trophy wives have moved on to the Evoke :wasntme:

Beware D3 and D4's... they are very nice too but as complicated as L322's and RRS.

P38's rule ok... IMHO, a great balance between poise, purpose and practicality.

Cheers, Paul.

[Hoges]

PaulP38a: "3.06 am" ...do you ever sleep :eek: or have you learned to post emails from your dreams? ;) :p

[harlie]

but why would you want to shift to an L322 when they are pretty well limited as anything more than a soft roader?
Obviously you have never driven one or even seen one in action. It will easily follow a P38, more clearance, more travel, much more advanced TC system - the only thing 38 has over 322 is 16inch tyres and there is a hell of a lot of options for the 18s now.



· L322 transmissions are "sealed for life"
· L322's are far more complicated to work on than a P38 for a home mechanic


Come on Paul - this is absolute crap! The Trans under the L322 has a drain plug, a fill plug and a removable filter, Service will cost about $300 at a rep automatics center, filters and oil are readily available for the home user. The RRS is actually the difficult one; it can still be serviced but needs modification to get the filter out without removing the trans from the chassis. Just because the dealer doesn’t service them… And the L322 is no more complicated for the home mech than a 38, might be a little daunting at first but the P38 was too when they were young. The 322 was also put together a lot better to start with…

Bit of tall poppy syndrome going on here....

[RR P38]

I am not sure that an L322 is quiet a soft roader but i would be concerned for the fuel tank and that daft looking exhaust system behind the rear axle its just begging to get ripped off.
All those soft painted bumpers are just ready to get scratched up.
The dash layout and controls for the air suspension, switches etc are a bit confusing.
And i am pretty concerned that most of the ones for sale in the $30k range have been poorly looked after, it must be great to have a $140k vehicle from new and abuse it and get another.
I guess when Mr Howard gave away a 50% rebate on company cars alot of people thought it was an offer to good to refuse.

Yes the late model 38s still look like good value.
But SWMBO still wants an L322 im pretty sure it wont look as good as my 38 after after 10yrs of use though.

[harlie]

What do you expect when looking at the cheapest examples around, maybe you should compare them to p38s that are advertised for 5-7k for condition and wear?

If the suspension controls are confusing (up, down and lock…) and everything underneath will be ripped off then don’t buy one.

[RR P38]

These are observations only, and im not trying to upset anyone!

I do drive a $5k P38 so i know what they are like. Interior wise mine is pretty good as most of them are.
It seems that the quality of trim in an L322 is not built to the same standard.
As some people have said in many posts/threads before the newer Rangies are loosing their off road practicality in the pursuit of the luxury car market.

[PaulP38a]

Bit of tall poppy syndrome going on here....

Nope, you misread me Harlie. Perhaps that huge chip on your shoulder obscured the view? ;)

No need to shoot the messenger mate, more than happy to have my dots points shot down/corrected though.

I must admit to never closely inspecting the transmission plugs on a L322, and was relying on information provided by a trusted friend and LR mechanic who makes a living out of servicing them.

Totally agree with you about the complexity thing... the P38 was significantly more complex than the RRC and hence more daunting, and the L322 is a degree more complex and daunting again. It is all relative I suppose.

Hoges - yes I do sleep, but not enough espcially at this time of year with EoFY accounts for 2 businesses, a "day job" running several major capital projects, and doing the sales enquiry/fulfillment thing for Hard Range in between does take its toll. Distracting myself by jumping back and forth to AULRO of an evening is a bit of therapy, even at 3am ;)

Cheers, Paul.

[andrew e]

L322s are easier to work on than a p38, just as P38s are easier than a classic. Things are easier to get at.

Some trim is made from the same coating as the later p38 center consoles (you can pick it off if you try hard).

l322s are better designed than a p38. Look at the size of the td6 aircleaner, its near 1/2 a metre long!

You can buy the outside glass of the headlight if you get a stone chip.

You can access the in tank fuel pump from the 2 (yes 2) holes in the top, through the access pannels in the floor.

twin batterys (in my case tripples) are very very easy.

Yes they have IFS and IRS, but when they came out in 02, Land Rover Owner international were quoted in saying, "a 322 on standard tyres will go further than a new defender on mud tyres." This is the largest LR mag in the world, by the way.

17 inch wheels fit. (and so do 32" tyres with a little plastic trimming).

All should have been recalled for the front diff.

Bad points, they have a $1800 heated windscreen, most have stupid wheels, v8s gearbox coolers clog up and overheat, v8 top ends stuff up, gearboxes die after many kms of not being serviced (duh), they dont sound like pauls car (and my diesel never will). Everything else can be put down to wear and tear or neglect. Speedo and center display pixels stuff up (not 'too' pricey to fix)

I would still have my grey MY01 p38 if i wasnt offered my current 04 HSE at a very stupid cheap price, and i would guarentee that anyone reading this would have done the same (including paul).

If anyones interested, i will be soon starting a build up in members rides of my car to continue on from the one in the l322 section.


Andy

Ps, i have always said, you can get a 10 year old top of the line disco for 10k, and a 10 year old top of the line rangie for 20k. So just wait a year or 2. (theres already a few v8 vouges for 25k on ebay).

[PaulP38a]

I would still have my grey MY01 p38 if i wasnt offered my current 04 HSE at a very stupid cheap price, and i would guarentee that anyone reading this would have done the same (including paul).


You are right Andy. I know what you paid for that L322 and I would have jumped at it too, especially considering how well you have got it running now :thumbsup:
I was sorry to see that grey P38 go... it would have looked so nice with a lift kit, front and rear bars, sliders, snorkel, chopped guards and a chunky set of 35"s :p

Cheers, Paul.

[redandy3575]

Gees this topics getting touchy:D.... so take it easy one me.:(

I would eventually go for a L322 if and when the price is right. By comparison for those that don't know, the L322 are almost priced at the same second hand price range as 100 series Toyota Landcruisers (dough....i said it again:wasntme:) and GU Nissan Patrols with similar KM's. The RR's are an un-tapped resource from the general public, which is why the prices are somewhat where they are. That's why it's a good idea when selling yours not to go to crazy on aftermarket mods, as enthusiasts like us on this forum will pick up on that and walk the other way. I don't know about you all, but i like to keep my vehicles as original as possible with only a few minor cosmetic changes to spruse the image a little i.e Tinted windows, Good tyres, Bull bar or Nudge bar etc. but no further. The thing i love about the L322 eventhough i don't own one, is the advanced suspension system. The suspension gets picked on by many so called 4WD die-hards for their air suspension, and the fact it's independent all round, but when going off-road with them and showing (like i did with my P38) that you can still tackle Mud soaked hills in the back of Warburton on road tyres and not get bogged combined with a bit of skillfull driving:angel: reaching the top of the hill in a grand reception of everyone with their cameras out snapping away with their jaws dropped expecting you to be bogged is saying something. The Rangie is still King.......not the Landrcuiser (DOUGH!!!)

For me value wise you get so much more for you dollar AND travel in luxury, instead of hopping out of the vehicle with a sore Ar se in tight coiled sprung Japanese rice burners (nothing racist about that, so don't start!!:D) or a P38 that didn't buy a EAS kicker of Paul and had to drive home on bump stops OR worse a DEFENDER:D...........:eek:......i'm running.

Now Paul, i will get that Bullbar off you this summer when the funds start flowing again, i promise. And will have to get a few smaller nick nacks in preparedness for the Birdsville trip in the next 2 to 3 weeks when my tax cheque clears, so will be in touch.

[RR P38]

Ok all,
I have had a drive in a V8 L322, good long one too.
Boy they are smooth sound great and i love the old fasioned induction roar trying to get out.
What a free revving engine, my P38 hardly ever sees 3200rpm these newer engines easily pop into the 5000s.
You can really feel the P38 under the skin somewhere.

Is a Hawkeye a good option for an L322 V8 DIY owner? It seems to be able to do most of the fiddling one might like to do and with one cable unlike the P38s 4 or so cables.

[harlie]

Hasn’t this thread taken a turn; since inputs from some who have actually looked at the vehicles that were just being crap-canned at the start…

For the record - I paid 36 for mine (May 2010), Diesel, 120kms, serviced every 10 and it is immaculate, no wear marks anywhere - not even on the trim beside the seats (usually part that shows first). It's been inspected twice since with nothing required other than brake pads and tyres. I looked at another that was in the same condition for 40k - good ones are out there hidden among the tatty ones.

Hawkeye would be a good option if you have another LR vehicle to use it on, when compared to Black Box, it is limited but it is 1/3 cost.

Another option for a pre MY06 V8 is Rover All Comms (http://www.rswsolutions.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=415&Itemid=81) which is available from Hard Range (no support for TD6 yet) – it does however require a laptop as it is just a lead and software - Bit more inconvenient when compared to the small box that is Hawkeye ect which can be kept in the glovebox.

[RR46]

Ok all,
I have had a drive in a V8 L322, good long one too.
Boy they are smooth sound great and i love the old fasioned induction roar trying to get out.
What a free revving engine, my P38 hardly ever sees 3200rpm these newer engines easily pop into the 5000s.
You can really feel the P38 under the skin somewhere.

Is a Hawkeye a good option for an L322 V8 DIY owner? It seems to be able to do most of the fiddling one might like to do and with one cable unlike the P38s 4 or so cables.

Have a drive of a supercharged one, you will be hooked. I took delivery of mine (06 Supercharged Vogue) last week and cant get the wife out of it. Fantastic car to drive, so silky smooth and the power is something else.

Im glad I we went with the Supercharged V8 and ZF 6 speed:D and not the diesel I was looking at (not to say the Diesels are bad).

[RR P38]

Deposit has gone down today.
Pick the V8 up on Tuesday.
Bad news from SWMBO im not allowed to go camping and off rd with it. Im working on that. She will get a shock when it comes home with a new set of Yokahama Geolandars on it.
What to do with the P38??? we love our 38 and have done for 11yrs

[RR P38]

Yesterday i was happy.
Today its all gone wrong.
The dealer has called up and told me the RR needs $2500 worth of repairs and would i like to put $1000 in and he will fix it all up.
Front bushes, battery, replacement tire and some engine oil leaks and a radio issue.
This was a pre delivery inspection by the dealer to ensure the RR was road worthy prior to the final payment.
It all seemed pretty good to me at the time i looked at it and it only has 125ks on it.
Im feeling like im getting screwed here.
Any one have some thoughts on this situation?
Probably going to tell him to keep his $32k RR.

[Hoges]

I detect a dodgy motor dealer ploy to boost his profit because he knows you are keen!

He advertised it for $32K and you accepted the " offer" and paid a deposit. He's legally bound to sell it to you for the advertised price.
Presuming he is a registered motor dealer, he is also legally bound to warranty the vehicle and sell it to you in a roadworthy condition. That he has "discovered" stuff needing to be fixed is his problem...not yours. he should look more closely next time before he offers a vehicle for sale

If it was me I would.
1. arrange to visit and examine the vehicle and ask him to show you the faults he as "discovered".(thereby validating that they a real!).
2. I would then firmly and politely demand that he sell it to you for the agreed amount..remind him that under basic contract law he has a legal obligation to sell to you at the agreed price; and he has an obligation under the motor dealers Act etc to warrant the vehicle as roadworthy and undertake needed repairs under statutory warranty!!!

I guess there are some qualified legal eagles on this forum who may/may not agree...but I think the above is correct...

good luck mate!

[DT-P38]

Tell him to keep it and report him for dodgy dealings... If you challenge him and continue the deal are you confident he isn't going to dodgy something else on you? There will always be more coming on the market. Run away, run away.

[RR P38]

I detect a dodgy motor dealer ploy to boost his profit because he knows you are keen!

He advertised it for $32K and you accepted the " offer" and paid a deposit. He's legally bound to sell it to you for the advertised price.
Presuming he is a registered motor dealer, he is also legally bound to warranty the vehicle and sell it to you in a roadworthy condition. That he has "discovered" stuff needing to be fixed is his problem...not yours. he should look more closely next time before he offers a vehicle for sale

If it was me I would.
1. arrange to visit and examine the vehicle and ask him to show you the faults he as "discovered".(thereby validating that they a real!).
2. I would then firmly and politely demand that he sell it to you for the agreed amount..remind him that under basic contract law he has a legal obligation to sell to you at the agreed price; and he has an obligation under the motor dealers Act etc to warrant the vehicle as roadworthy and undertake needed repairs under statutory warranty!!!

I guess there are some qualified legal eagles on this forum who may/may not agree...but I think the above is correct...

good luck mate!

My wife has the same point of view.

[redandy3575]

They don't sound like major issues except for the oil leaks. I wouldn't pay 1c more on it as the deal is done and it's up to him to ensure the vehicle is in roadworthy condition. If he would have been smart, he'd repair the vehicle before selling it, sounds like a bit of slacker to me. Can you get the deposit back?? if so, and your not happy with the issues, do so and walk......

[33chinacars]

Leave it alone. WALK AWAY. All car sales from genuine dealers should have a cooling off period. Wait for a better one to come along & pay a little more. I payed top $ for my TD6. Still happy as got top $ for trade in on P38 & did have to try and sell it private. Could have bought a higher milage TD6 for about $10000 less but then may not have been able to get rid of my P38. Well not around here any way

Gary

[RR P38]

Deals off:( and getting my deposit back.
The dealer was pretty good about it all, i get the impression the RR was on consignment.
Still looking, TD6 Vogues appeal.
I have to get an L322 now as i have ordered a Hawkeye from the UK:D

[DT-P38]

Seeing as its a done deal it sounds like it may be time to move this post to the L322 page... they will be happy to have another join the ranks!

Aah well... That's another P38 comrade MIA!

[RR P38]

Im still a P38 driver and SWMBO doesnt really want me to get rid of the old girl.
Under the skin of every L322 lurks a P38.

[PaulP38a]

Welcome back RR P38... bide your time, the right one will come along one day.

I'll fess up - I do keep a sneaky eye out for a supercharged V8 RRS or L322 as a suitable replacement for one of my P38's or ute ;)

Cheers, Paul.

[glenhendry]

You should feel dirty Paul... That numberplate is going to look stoopid on a L322. ;)