Fitting Anchor Points for Child Restraint in 2008 Defender

[kailanayacht]

Hi AULRO Members,

I am looking at purchasing a 2008 Defender 110 in Western Australia. I am also the proud father of a newborn child and must consider the ability to safely (and legally) secure an infant/child car seat in the vehicle. I have read some blogs on AULRO regarding the issue of fitting anchor points, however I am still clouded with uncertainty as to weather they can be legally fitted to a 2008 Defender?

I am aware that a 'crab bar' (picture below) can and have been installed to Defenders in the past, however the rules in WA may have changed recently and some engineers are saying that can't install on Defender anymore as not able to install to aluninium and way too difficult to engineer an alternative?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/
(note that I want to install anchor point on 2008 Defender which has higher back seats and different side panelling).

Also, the only installations I can see on the internet are on older Defenders which have the older rear seats which have seat top height much lower than the current taller rear seats in the 2008 model. This, along with different interior panel moulding on the 2008 at the location where I would expect the 'crab bar' to be installed may cause problems to install on the 2008? If it can be installed, how much damage will this have on the interrior during install?

Has anyone out there any information on this or have installed legal anchor points on a 2008 or more recent Defender 110?

[MC90]

I've just had 2 anchor points fitted to a Puma 90 by WesbarVanquip in Perth. The anchor points are fixed on the floor and through a steel crossmember on the underside, giving a secure mounting point. This may be an alternative to a CRAB bar. Give Steve of WesbarVanquip a call (08 9458 9177) - he was very helpful when I spoke to him about methods of fitting the anchor points.

[muddys1]

i had a restraint fitted into the 110 pickup
guys at seat belt solutions did it for me
compliance plate fitted to the door and couldnt be happier
:)

cheers
muddy

[beefy]

yeah wesbar is the place to go. the other option is the arb cargo barrier which has them fitted into it.

[Sud16]

Sorry to hijack this but has anyone had this done in Tasmania?

Any info on who or where would be fantastic!

[Ricky Chianese]

I have a 2008 defender SW and have the crab bar fitted by TL Engineering in Bayswater Perth for around $500. This includes all the necessary certification and compliance plate.

There are no issues with the second row of seats. I had three anchor points fitted along the length of the bar so that my two kiddie seats can be moved around easily.

The bar can easily be unbolted should you need the extra room for luggage.


Hope this helps.

[Samblers]

Just re-vitalising this old thread as I was doing some research...

TL Engineering now quote $660 all-up to do the job.

This is the 'official' word from a Perth Land Rover dealer on the process, as per email today... quite a difference hey?...

With regard to child anchor points. They are not fitted to the Defenders in Australia, and we, as a Land Rover dealer, cannot retro fit them.
The process by yourself to have them fitted to Australian standards is as follows.
1/ have the vehicle inspected by an authorised engineer listed with the Dept. of Planning and Infrastructure, (Welshpool Licencing Centre is the Engineers Branch)
2/ The engineer designs the specifications required for the restraint points.
3/ Apply to the Dept. Planning Engineers branch for the modification to be authorised.
4/ on approval, have the modification performed by an engineering company recommended by the design engineer.
5/ take the vehicle back to Dept. of Planning Engineers Dept. for inspection and final approval, at which time they will issue a modified Vehicle Permit.

I understand this all sounds long winded and too hard, but it’s not. The process from start to finish is approximately six weeks, and the overall cost I would think somewhere around $2500, of which the design engineer will be charging $1800 give or take.
I’ve always found the engineers and inspectors at Welshpool friendly and informative, as long as you do it by the book.
With regard to the differing information and options from the Australian Land Rover website compared to the English one, use only the Australian. The English options and accessories are much more wide and varied, due to market demand, compliancing etc etc.

$1800 for design engineer... so, who's in the right...?

[Leyland1980]

i had a restraint fitted into the 110 pickup
guys at seat belt solutions did it for me
compliance plate fitted to the door and couldnt be happier
:)

cheers
muddy

Is that in a double cab/crew cab pickup? if so can you please post photos?

Many thanks

John

[modman]

Sounds like an excuse to install a proper cargo barrier and set of draws
The cargo barrier is almost a must for loading the rear of a defender
Have seen child restraints on ARB barriers and black widow
Dc

[Samblers]

^ but are they legal? (and in WA?)

[modman]

Australian standards are Australian standards???????

Have you rang ARB??
Have you rang Black Widow??
Have you rang Dept of Interiors??
Have you rang Opposite lock??

I was't happy with any of the mounting systems so made my own
Cargo barrier cut out for straps and slotted angle bolted to the seat belt anchorages for 3rd row( county rear)

That will really get a tut tut from the green vest wearing original cup holder
Fraternity
Dc

[nedflanders]

Sorry for the hi-jack but what about a 2004 90 with side facing seats? :eek:

[dcale]

Hi AULRO Members,

I am looking at purchasing a 2008 Defender 110 in Western Australia. I am also the proud father of a newborn child and must consider the ability to safely (and legally) secure an infant/child car seat in the vehicle. I have read some blogs on AULRO regarding the issue of fitting anchor points, however I am still clouded with uncertainty as to weather they can be legally fitted to a 2008 Defender?

I am aware that a 'crab bar' (picture below) can and have been installed to Defenders in the past, however the rules in WA may have changed recently and some engineers are saying that can't install on Defender anymore as not able to install to aluninium and way too difficult to engineer an alternative?

http://tleng.com.au/images/child_restraint_4.jpg
(note that I want to install anchor point on 2008 Defender which has higher back seats and different side panelling).

Also, the only installations I can see on the internet are on older Defenders which have the older rear seats which have seat top height much lower than the current taller rear seats in the 2008 model. This, along with different interior panel moulding on the 2008 at the location where I would expect the 'crab bar' to be installed may cause problems to install on the 2008? If it can be installed, how much damage will this have on the interrior during install?

Has anyone out there any information on this or have installed legal anchor points on a 2008 or more recent Defender 110?

Hi kailanayacht,
I just removed my bar which was installed by Wes??? In Perth in my 2009 Def. PM me if you want it, as it may save you some coin.
Darren

[slug_burner]

Just re-vitalising this old thread as I was doing some research...

TL Engineering now quote $660 all-up to do the job.

This is the 'official' word from a Perth Land Rover dealer on the process, as per email today... quite a difference hey?...

With regard to child anchor points. They are not fitted to the Defenders in Australia, and we, as a Land Rover dealer, cannot retro fit them.
The process by yourself to have them fitted to Australian standards is as follows.
1/ have the vehicle inspected by an authorised engineer listed with the Dept. of Planning and Infrastructure, (Welshpool Licencing Centre is the Engineers Branch)
2/ The engineer designs the specifications required for the restraint points.
3/ Apply to the Dept. Planning Engineers branch for the modification to be authorised.
4/ on approval, have the modification performed by an engineering company recommended by the design engineer.
5/ take the vehicle back to Dept. of Planning Engineers Dept. for inspection and final approval, at which time they will issue a modified Vehicle Permit.

I understand this all sounds long winded and too hard, but it’s not. The process from start to finish is approximately six weeks, and the overall cost I would think somewhere around $2500, of which the design engineer will be charging $1800 give or take.
I’ve always found the engineers and inspectors at Welshpool friendly and informative, as long as you do it by the book.
With regard to the differing information and options from the Australian Land Rover website compared to the English one, use only the Australian. The English options and accessories are much more wide and varied, due to market demand, compliancing etc etc.

$1800 for design engineer... so, who's in the right...?

By which time your child will no longer need the child restraint system and the costs paid would have probably paid for half his pre university education.

[GlennWA]

These links to the relevant ADRs may be useful. Note the static test load of 3.4 kN (~350kg) requirement as an alternative to dynamic testing.

Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 34/00 - Child Restraint Anchorage and Child Restraint Anchor Fittings) 2006 (http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2006L03063)

Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 34/01 - Child Restraint Anchorages and Child Restraint Anchor Fittings) 2005 (http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2012C00358)

Cheers

Glenn

[santorini110]

all mods must comply with ADR Australian Design rules, i fitted a three hook Crab bar to my 110 staion wagon in Qld, it cost $750 and the bloke who fitted it said he would never do it so cheaply again, as it was the first time he had done it and it took than he quoted for...

there is minimal disturbance or damage inside.

[muddys1]

Hi John,

A 2010 110 crew cab/double cab,
I cant find the pics now, but i'll have a scout around and see what i can find.
cheers
muddy

[Samblers]

More info on this one, just for reference for people searching in the future.

I have the car booked in at TL Engineering here in Perth, they put me onto their suppliers, Automotive Restraint Fitters Australia. Check out their items 46 and 46a here:

Automotive Restraint Fitters - Seat Belt Accessories - Child Car Seats - Baby Car Seats - TOTLOK - Bracket's and Mounts (http://arfa.com.au/index.php/Bracket-s-and-Mounts/View-all-products.html)

I bought item 46 (secondhand) off a 2009 defender owner... but was suprised when i saw the install on his 7-seater that it meant you could no longer sit in the third row of seats (the occupants knees will hit the bar). Item 46a is the item that should be fitted to a defender - the bar is padded and raised up much higher (hence the legs), meaning the third row of seats can be used.

I also spoke to the fella at Automotive Restraint Fitters Australia about anchor points through the floor (which i would prefer), which he says is not an option.

Hope this helps

Sam

[Samblers]

p.s. and if anyone wants to buy item 46, for their 5-seater defender, PM me!

[Babs]

Has anyone looked at the new Defenders tie down points for cargo, they seem very secure and are placed perfect for child restraint. They must be rated to secure down a heavy load, let alone a 10-15 kg child. Any thoughts???

[Samblers]

They are not legal (certifiable).

[Babs]

They are not legal (certifiable).

Maybe not, probably because a certifier could not respectively charge a large some of money for there to be no change and to use what is already there.

If you have a late model 7 seater take a closer look at these tie downs as the bolt goes through two sheets of panel in the wheel arch. They look extremely strong to me.

If you could find an honest certifier i'm sure he would approve them, unless someone knows something I don't know or I have not taken into consideration. :)

[Steve223]

Hi,

Having the same issues now with my defender here in Sydney so far quotes range from $2500 ( striping and reinforcing seats and mounting restrain point on seat similar to most factory installations) and around 2k including a cargo barrier and putting a big bar in the back.
Will call Gordon from Opposit Lock today and see what he can come up with.

Cheers

Steve

[Babs]

Hi, Having the same issues now with my defender here in Sydney so far quotes range from $2500 ( striping and reinforcing seats and mounting restrain point on seat similar to most factory installations) and around 2k including a cargo barrier and putting a big bar in the back. Will call Gordon from Opposit Lock today and see what he can come up with. Cheers Steve


This is from GreenHornet-

" Hi Guys
Just thought I would update this thread.
We took forum advice and went to Comptune Engineering.(Sydney)
Really great guys to deal with.
Their workshop is opposite a LR dealership so they have this conversion down to a fine art.
x3 anchor points installed with engineers certificate.
This took them about 6 hours and cost us $900.
Best deal we could find.
Thanks for the advice. "

I had these done as well. Looks like a OME fitting and comes with engineer certificate all for $900.

Don't go the ugly crab bar option. Yuk.

Do a search on hear and you will find pics as well.



72715



72716

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Steve223]

This is from GreenHornet-

" Hi Guys
Just thought I would update this thread.
We took forum advice and went to Comptune Engineering.(Sydney)
Really great guys to deal with.
Their workshop is opposite a LR dealership so they have this conversion down to a fine art.
x3 anchor points installed with engineers certificate.
This took them about 6 hours and cost us $900.
Best deal we could find.
Thanks for the advice. "

I had these done as well. Looks like a OME fitting and comes with engineer certificate all for $900.

Don't go the ugly crab bar option. Yuk.

Do a search on hear and you will find pics as well.



72715



72716

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Great I just called Comptune Engineering $990 for in seat solution another mob quoted me $2500 for this!!!

Booked car in for next Friday.

[doctorjuniper]

Anyone get any further on this? A non-CRAB anchor point solution for a 90?

[Babs]

Anyone get any further on this? A non-CRAB anchor point solution for a 90?


Here you go, this is from another post.

There is a now a company in Melbourne who will install and provide the modification plate. They have kits ready to install. Anchor point installed in 3 seats is approx. $900 including modification plate.


Contact WilliamTaylor(VASS No 2031) ASHWOODVIC 3147
Mob: 0404 281 193 Email: wjtaylor007@optusnet.com.au

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Babs]

Forget Comptune they now want $1,500 for this mod.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[alan48]

Hi,
I went through this recently re two pumas and was disgusted at the prices for relatively little work--in the end had my local RMS approved engineer in Sth Windsor do one in each car at $450 each as I only wanted one/car--others insisted they must do three--why? Most of that cost was for the certificate anyway.

[doctorjuniper]

Brilliant thanks for the info!

[stewie110]

Hi,
I went through this recently re two pumas and was disgusted at the prices for relatively little work--in the end had my local RMS approved engineer in Sth Windsor do one in each car at $450 each as I only wanted one/car--others insisted they must do three--why? Most of that cost was for the certificate anyway.
We had one fitted then had another kid so got the other two fitted.. Allows us to move the kids around as required for packing in adults [emoji4]

[DiscoMick]

I had fridge tie down points fitted to my drawers from Off Road Systems and I just use one of them for the child seat. I figured if it is rated to hold a fridge it should be able to hold a much lighter baby and seat.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[EastFreo]

I did the same as Disco Mick. Also my youngest is now in a booster and all the tie down is doing is securing the seat from flying around (and it is using the proper seat belt to secure the child).

I have a third row of seats and I have also previously secured the tie down and harness to the mount of that. I figured it must be more than engineered enough or it wouldn't have been approved for use!

I will say though that LR could have fitted the anchors to the back of the seats. It is amazing how many people I meet that use their Defenders as family wagons. They could even have added it as an extra and I would have happily paid through the nose for it.

[stewie110]

I did the same as Disco Mick. Also my youngest is now in a booster and all the tie down is doing is securing the seat from flying around (and it is using the proper seat belt to secure the child).

I have a third row of seats and I have also previously secured the tie down and harness to the mount of that. I figured it must be more than engineered enough or it wouldn't have been approved for use!

I will say though that LR could have fitted the anchors to the back of the seats. It is amazing how many people I meet that use their Defenders as family wagons. They could even have added it as an extra and I would have happily paid through the nose for it.
They don't because of some loophole around the legal definition of a utility vehicle.. (what I was told by someone at jlr)

[mekon76]

So I fitted my own child anchor points and removed the cumbersome CRAB. Left rear seat was really painful to do. Loktite the nut to the big washer and drilled a hole through that and the back plate. Riveted just to hold in position. Then riveted all back in. Did have to cut a small amount of top bar on seat to fit.

Did same with right hand seat, but was able to hold the assembly with the rear window open and then screw the bolt in and all was good. As the anchor point purely holds the seat in position from movement when not being used, the seat belt still takes the load and restraint in an accident. So I have no issues with this and prefer to the ones that are just tapped into the metal skin and foam back.

Now I have a CRAB for sale.

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