D2 to D3 - who's done it and how has it worked out ?

[tileys]

OK - so I don't even have a D2 yet - I'm considering a D2 but part of me is also considering a D3 which I might be able to stretch to. For those that have experience using both (I'm assuming of course that you probably went from D2 to D3 rather than the other way round ;) ) - how have you found the move - specifically in the following areas :

Did you go from a lifted D2 to a stock D3 ?
Did you go to a D3 S or SE or S with air lift ?
Have you compared the two (D2,D3) in terms of clearance and how the cars handle rough tracks ? - rutted tracks that you tend to bottom out on stock vehicles for example.

On the road I fully expect the experience to show the D3 is a nicer drive but if I do stretch to a D3 I'll have to put on hold plans for locker (may not need it though), lift (again - is a 2" for a coil sprung vehicle less lift than you get with an SE anyway ?), and plans for dual battery, barwork etc. purely from a financial perspective.

Couldn't find these questions asked on a prior thread so apologies if this has been asked before.

Have a good weekend.

[Neil P]

What 4x4 do you have now ? Why do you want a D2 over a LC100 4.2 ?

[Disco4SE]

I agree with Neil P re: a LC100 over a D2, however I would rather the D3 over the LC100.
Had both vehicles myself
Cheers, Craig

[Ean Austral]

I went from a 2001 D2 to a 2008 D3 TDSE and as far as the 2 go the D3 is just streams ahead in day to day driving.

I cant say as far as the rough stuff goes, but my D2 took us everywhere we wanted with ease..Kimberly's, gunbarrel, Canning Stock route, and many other trips and never failed once.

I would love to think I will do the same with the D3 but SWMBO has claimed the D3 so my chances are slim..

Although im sure the D3 would be more than capable, I will likely buy a D2 for my next serious offroad trip.

Cheers Ean

[tileys]

At the moment we've got a Prado 120 d4d but although that is setup with a UHF and dual batteries for pulling the camper trailer around it's the wife's daily drive and there's a limit we are prepared to mod it. I have driven a non turbo 4.2 cruiser around the merinee loop and in and out of palm valley and it was pretty gutless and thirsty when asked to work (we weren't even towing anything). The turbo versions are just astronomical - I drove one the other day that had done 170k had no service history and they wanted 47 for it !

We previously had a 3.5 petrol pajero which was a lovely drive on the road and surprisingly capable off it but not very moddable.

[chuck]

I went from a fairly well sorted 2001 Td5 D2 to 2009 TDV6 D3.

The difference is incredible.

The main difference is day to day running & gravel roads.

Prior to modding my D3 its only fault was it was to low & the driver (me).

I now have LLams & 265 x 70 x 17 MT's - no clearance problems now.

The D3 takes a fundamental shift in thinking in off road driving - it is no longer stick in low & drive.

You have to remember DSC, height control, terrain reponse & comand shift.

If you remember all of the above they are more cabable than a D2 however I have found that its cababilities are greater than my nerve $70K v $20K.

The D3 ability on gravel roads is on another level - I have found that a D2 does not keep up if you are driving at comfortable speeds i.e. not bone jarring, rattle apart speeds.

The other factor is the reliability - the last year of my D2 was $5K in mechanical repairs & I am not including servicing in that cost.

Last year the D3 cost me $1700.00 in service - one major, one minor & brakes all round.

I will purchase the extended warranty at Christmas which will give me 2 years of additional peace of mind.

If you can - go for a 2008/9 D3 as they seemed to have ironed all of the bugs out by then.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Chuck

[ozscott]

I went from a fairly well sorted 2001 Td5 D2 to 2009 TDV6 D3.

...

The other factor is the reliability - the last year of my D2 was $5K in mechanical repairs & I am not including servicing in that cost.

Last year the D3 cost me $1700.00 in service - one major, one minor & brakes all round.

...

Hope this helps.

Regards

Chuck

Its too early to tell Chuck mate. You are comparing an 8 year old vehicle with $5k in the last of those 8 years...wait till the D3 in the year 2017 and tell us about reliabilty and running costs...by then you will likely have done rack, ball joints all round etc and on my reading of this thread you are talking serious dosh for those things. That does not take into account other issues. I am not having a go at D3's just the comparrison given how young your D3 is.

Cheers

[Michael2]

A friend went from a 2005 HSE D3 to a 2004 S D2. While the D3 was awesome, being able to run 16" tyres off road has saved him heaps, let alone all the other service costs.

While the D2 doesn't have as powerful a motor, he commented that the drastic reduction in vehicle weight meant that it didn't really suffer a drop in performance in comparison.

Passangers did prefer the D3.

[Neil P]

....wait till the D3 is in the year 2017 and tell us about reliabilty and running costs ....
I don't think many readers on this forum would touch an 8 year old D3 with a bargepole .......

[ozscott]

No funny that :). Cheers

[Redback]

At the moment we've got a Prado 120 d4d but although that is setup with a UHF and dual batteries for pulling the camper trailer around it's the wife's daily drive and there's a limit we are prepared to mod it. I have driven a non turbo 4.2 cruiser around the merinee loop and in and out of palm valley and it was pretty gutless and thirsty when asked to work (we weren't even towing anything). The turbo versions are just astronomical - I drove one the other day that had done 170k had no service history and they wanted 47 for it !

We previously had a 3.5 petrol pajero which was a lovely drive on the road and surprisingly capable off it but not very moddable.

Unless you get the 4.2TD Cruiser, stick with the D4D Prado, by the way 47,000 for TD4.2 Cruiser is cheap, some go for way more than that and 170K for a 4.2 is not a lot of Ks.

Baz.

[chuck]

I guess the point I was making was that the D2 was becoming unreliable even though it was being well serviced.

The D3 will have 5 years warranty which is something not even offered with the D2.

I use my car for work including it's 4wd ability.

D3's are still holding good values even the 7 year old models.

I will say though that I am starting to look for a V8 D1 or D2 for more extreme duties - this not because I think that the D3 is not capable but for fear of breaking it & not having a work vehicle.

I also remember opinion that the D2 was to complicated etc etc after it was introduced.

Regards

Chuck

[AnD3rew]

I had an unmodded D2 TD5 and then after a break I have an unmodded tdv6 se D3 and they are light years apart in terms of capability and reliability, I will take the d3 any day. I owned both from new and there was absolutely no way I was going to keep the TD5 past the end of it's warranty because it broke on an almost monthly basis but my D3's only problem in two years has been a below par door seal replaced under warranty. In terms of comfort, on road the D3 is better than my BMW 325ci I replaced with it, on gravel, I just did about 1500 km on gravel averaging 80-100kph and it was superb, the kids were even able to comfortably watch a portable DVD player. And in the seriously rough, as long as you understand and properly use the electronics it will go places unmodded which will leave the unmodded TD5 in a quivering heap. ( you might want to add the Llams system though). I am seriously considering keeping the D3 beyond the warranty for the first time many years.

[TerryO]

I don't think many readers on this forum would touch an 8 year old D3 with a bargepole .......


I guess we will have to wait until D3's actually get to their 8th birthday before we know if your correct or not.

My guess is there will be plenty of D3 owners who will end up with old D3's (when they actually do become old) and who will be still very happy with them.

cheers,
Terry

[ozscott]

Goodness Andrew...I had better get my quivering heap out of your way on the trails...hahahha..love it (although mine is a V8 D2 does that count?:D).

I love passionate LR owners...but the turn of phrase is such a beautiful thing in that post.

Cheers

[AnD3rew]

Goodness Andrew...I had better get my quivering heap out of your way on the trails...hahahha..love it (although mine is a V8 D2 does that count?:D).

I love passionate LR owners...but the turn of phrase is such a beautiful thing in that post.

Cheers

Ok maybe I was a little flowery, but I was staggered what the D3 could do when I had someone who really knew what they were doing guide me through all the programs in real life situations. Well beyond anything I had done before.

[Tote]

I owned a D2 for 5 years and leased a new D3 TDV6 SE three and a half years ago. The D3 is so far ahead of the D2 in all areas that it is hard to make a comparison. The gotcha is that if you are using any vehicle hard it is going to acquire "character marks".
Both are probably more expensive to repair than a cruiser and accessories are also hard to come by second hand. I wouldn't swap the D3 though.

Regards,
Tote

[Geedublya]

Had a D2 V8 for just over a year. Bought a D3 TDV6 mainly because the wife hated the D2 as it was noisy and unrefined. She has no problems with the D3 :D.

Both are very capable off road but standard the D3 is more capable. The D3 is so much better on the bitumen except it has more body roll (D2 had ACE).

TDV6 is much better than the V8, quieter, smoother, more powerful and more economical.

D3s can be found cheap and I bought mine for not much more than people are asking for D2a TD5s.

[TerryO]

Both are very capable off road but standard the D3 is more capable. The D3 is so much better on the bitumen except it has more body roll (D2 had ACE).



Your spot on Geedublya, most D3/4 owners would be very surprised to find out that a D2 with ACE and SLS and running on 18's would run circles around their D3/4's in the handling department.

D3/4's are more comfortable especially on bumpy roads but they don't handle in comparision.

cheers,
Terry

[Disco4SE]

Terry,
After having a D3 and now a D4, I can say that the D4 handles better than the D3. Havent driven a D2 with ACE, but I'm tipping the D4 would be my preffered ride
Cheers, Craig

[TerryO]

A D4 would be my preffered ride as well even if the D2 still out handled it but right now I'll have to settle for the good ol D3. ;)

cheers,
Terry

[rangietragic]

after having a d2 es td5 with sls,ace,up graded brakes and chipped engine,im buying a d3 tdv6 hse,fair few kays on it but full landrover service history and the price is good.allways found ride on d2,on 18s,abit harsh compared to my previous rangies,both p38 and classics.only troubles with d2 has been the usual,fuel pressure reg,starter contacts,warped exhaust manifold,and oil in injector harness.goes well and handles good.hope i have a good run with the d3,for a while anyway.

[Graeme]

A D4 would be my preffered ride as well even if the D2 still out handled it but right now I'll have to settle for the good old D3. ;)

cheers,
Terry
I thought my D2 with ACE handled smooth, quick corners better than my D4 originally did, probably due to less weight. Now almost a D3 in the handling dept with D3 shocks and roll bars (it still has the D4 lower roll centre), it certainly leans more, although lowered with Llams significantly improves the handling. However the variable height suspension, especially now with more options, is so much better for me than the D2's single height for the varying terrain that is traversed daily.

[Geedublya]

Your spot on Geedublya, most D3/4 owners would be very surprised to find out that a D2 with ACE and SLS and running on 18's would run circles around their D3/4's in the handling department.

D3/4's are more comfortable especially on bumpy roads but they don't handle in comparision.

Handling and body roll are different things. Sure the D3 has more roll but I think it handles better. Once you get used to the roll it is more stable and definitely is much better in bumpy corners. I used to hate the D2 in any corner with bumps the live axle just doesn't cope as well as independent.

Now one thing I do dislike is the D3 stability control. I find it is way to sensitive especially in sweepers.

[ozscott]

Mate - posting your question on here...well its natural that you are not going to get people coming back and saying..oh well funny you should ask mate cause the D3/D4 is really crap to drive and I wish I had hung onto the D2...:D

Cheers

[rangietragic]

what is Llams'd3 is totally new territory for me.:confused:

[TerryO]

Handling and body roll are different things. Sure the D3 has more roll but I think it handles better. Once you get used to the roll it is more stable and definitely is much better in bumpy corners. I used to hate the D2 in any corner with bumps the live axle just doesn't cope as well as independent.

Now one thing I do dislike is the D3 stability control. I find it is way to sensitive especially in sweepers.



Yes I am aware that handling and body roll are quite separate, having said that body roll doesn't have to be that bad before it starts to affect a vehicles handling.

Having driven the D2a and the D3 quite hard around the race track (Wakefield Park Raceway) where my business is located on a number of ocassions. I found the D2a with ace and on 18's (to me anyway) handled better than the D3. As one would expect once I changed from 18's with highway tyres fitted to 16's with A/T's fitted the handling on the D2 was no where as good.

The thing that lets any D2 down when it comes to punting them quite hard is they are seriously underpowered even with the petrol V8, but that is another story.

cheers,
Terry

[~Rich~]

what is Llams'd3 is totally new territory for me.:confused:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/verandah/114282-llams-electronic-height-controller-d3-d4-rrs.html

:D Rich

[ozscott]

Terry - must have been the race track mate. Try the same trick mid corner bumps and the D3 would go harder through the same corner I reckon given indep sus'. The beam stiffened up is just too stiff to soak up mid corner bumps on rough corner in my view compared to an independently suspended set up. I used to have an SLE VH Commodore that would go harder mid corner on many roads than a Brock of the same year - just because the Brock got all upset with mid corner bumps - race track no comparison of course.

Cheers

[TerryO]

Above message duplicated for some reason so I have deleted this one.

cheers,
Terry

[TerryO]

Hi Scott,

I guess I'm one of few who can drive both vehicles back to back, both on the road and on a race track and these are just my observations from personal experience.

I drive to Orange quite often and anyone who has driven the road to Orange Via Taralga or Crookwell knows how bumpy those roads are and the D2 does a very good job at speed over the bumps when pushed hard. I don't mind admitting I prefer the D3 because it is so much more comfortable especially on bumpy roads but I do find myself driving slower in it believe it or not.

I would bet the D3 could be made to handle better then a D2 with ace but that would mean changing the dampening in the shocks quite dramatically and then it would not ride as nice as it does.

Where ACE is good is it allows you to still have a reasonably comfortable shock absorber but assists greatly with body roll and keeping the wheels on the ground when corning, it might be an old set up but it works very well.

As far as I know the only way to get four wheel independant suspension to work really well in both ride and handling quality is to use the set up HSV has on their recent Senator Sigs and GTS models with MRS suspension. I had a new 09 Senator and its ride was very comfortable with the MRS turned off, you could hardly feel a bump, but turn it on and the handling difference was very noticeable. Around either Wakefield or Eastern Creek you wouldn't believe it was the same car once you switched it on.

cheers,
Terry

[DM74]

Great article - I've been looking at the same changeover and wondered about all mentioned below. We will be looking next year to change the D2 ES V8 for the best that the budget will allow, probably an 06-08 HSE diesel. The boss would rather a RRS.

The D2 ACE system definitely seems to keep the old girl ridiculously flat at silly speeds that it just shouldn't be able to do. Also, its great at letting you know you've put on a few kg's when you hit a ripply stretch of road that you commonly drive near your house!

I've already had a couple of test drives and my biggest concern is seeing as the V8 is pretty slow with a 0-100kph of 10sec, how will the TDV6 go doing a quoted 12.5 for 0-100kph. A salesman told me he would not imagine a V8 D2 would be quicker, but after driving one I recon mine would smoke a D3???

I'm just hoping they are deceptively quicker than they feel?
And I know I will need to learn to drive it in the fat part of the torque curve - or FLAT to the floor???

Also there seems like more body roll from the D3 for sure, but I don't think its horrible. I threw it around a few small bluestone (rough) roundabouts and it turns in quicker than it physically ought to IMO. But that beautiful supple ride compared to the D2 is MAGIC!

I'll also look forward to the much better interior layout and room in the boot - it will kill my 7 seater! It's just a pitty the dash isnt a bit more attractive and befitting of the pricetag :(

Yep, I'd rather a D4 cause they have addressed ALL the things I don't like about the D3 - just gotta decide whether to be patient and wait for the 4yr leases come up and a few Toorak tractors hit the market.........At recession prices :)

regards
Darian

[TerryO]

Hi Darian,

the TDV6 with the six speed auto box is quite deceptive in how it excellerates because it is so smooth. Our one is much faster then the V8 D2a in a straight line.

cheers,
Terry

[rangietragic]

anyone got a d3 tdv6 with more than 200000 kays on it?if so any dramas?just replaced my d2 with it.

[AnD3rew]

I had a TD5 with ACE as well, I think it is true that it has a technically firmer and flatter cornering and maybe on a racetrack you might prefer that, but overall the D3 is so much more assured and comfortable on the road that even if I could keep everything else the same I wouldnt take the the D2 + ACE handling over the D3 handling and ride.

[ozscott]

Fair call Terry. I thought from your first post it was race track only but as you have done bumpy too all good. Cheers