Accident in Defender

[Scott]

Hi Everyone
I did a little searching and couldn't find much information about this topic.
I am thinking about buying a new Puma to replace my 02 130 and am a little worried about crash safety. Time is moving on and you can now buy other utes with Airbags, crumple zones etc. I have been lucky and never had an accident of any sort, in any car, in over 600,00km but the time may come when I am hit side on at an intersection etc. This is the main reason I would not buy another Defender.

Want to know has anyone been hit side on and what was the result? Has anyone hit anyone or anything head on and what were your injuries?

I know they are a truck etc, but there are alternatives now that are safer, when 20 years ago there was not. The alternatives are still not as good offroad and in other ways, but you have to look at the pros and cons of any decision. A friend of my wife and I, was hit on the left hand side at an intersection, a couple of weeks ago in a Prado by a car. The Prado was a write off and she only suffered whip lash. The crash broke the child seat on the passenger side though, no children in the car luckliy. This was in a 50 zone. I would hate to think if she was in a Defender and was hit on the drivers side. This is my main worry, want to know if anyone has been in this situation, how badly injured were you.

A side question are LR going to bring our a new defender soon?

Thanks
Scott

[spudboy]

Yeah - they are lacking in the Airbag/Crumple zone/rollover safety. I've seen a few pictures where they've gone shiny side up, and the roof pretty much collapses unless you have a rollbar or a Milford barrier.

On the plus side, you are up higher than normal cars, and they have a real chassis, although the crumpling of the body is what you want to absorb the impact.

I've put some heavy duty side steps/rock-sliders on my 130 which are some improvement to the side impact protection, and I want to fit a roll cage.

If you are after safety as a no. 1 priority, then Defender is not going to get too many stars unfortunately.

Am hoping that the next version of the Defender has at the very least air bags.

[frantic]

Get a roll bar and rocksliders with brushguard linked to the bullbar + a 2in lift and 95% of any side impact's short of a truck/bus will be at ankle height.

[Chucaro]

I agree with spudboy, the Defe it is not very safe :(
If I need a ute and safety will be my concern I would get a VW Amarok.

[slug_burner]

Risk is consequence and probability

With the Defender most cars are going to be hitting under your seat, that reduces the number of vehicles that can hit you at body height therefore reduces probability and reduces the risk.

I have greater concerns for the stability of the vehicle under hard braking on a slightly greasy road than I do about side impact.

[Scott]

Have you looked under the door lately, there is nothing there really. Well nothing very strong. The cab is aluminium, and would crush very easily I assume. You can make aluminium strong, take a new XJ jag but the defender, was not designed for crash safety.

I still don't think the floor height in a standard defender is above the height that would be impacted when hit by a standard family car. I think some impact would be at floor height and the seat box.

You could as suggested build very strong side steps and rails with extra reinforcing without too much trouble, that would transfer some impact to the chassis and away from the cab.

[Grumbles]

I wouldn't think any major sideways hit [ie small car hits high Puma] will stop your head impacting the door pillar. Energy still has to be dissipated and the human body in the cabin will still recoil rapidly sideways and sustain injury.

[VladTepes]

Unless you really need a ute a disco 3 or 4 would be a much netter proposition for you. With the back seats folded flat there is a heap of storage room

[inside]

Can we post this again? Between my FL2 and my Defender I'd rather have a crash in the FL2. My main worry with the Defender is swerving to avoid an accident, it'd fall over pretty quickly I'd imagine.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/07/83.jpg

[Scott]

No one had any accidents?
Being a farmer, I use the ute offroad everyday. We live 30km from town on a tar road. The Defender is great around the farm and for carrying big loads from town. Only downside is safety and comfort on long trips, also no dealer if I buy a new one. 4 hours to toowoomba, our nearest dealer.
I don't want to get off topic though, I can make it safer somewhat but its also the lack of airbags and seat belt technology, also soft coverings in the cab you can hit your head on.

[inside]

No one had any accidents?

Check here http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/114072-defender-safety-2.html#post1340648

[JDNSW]

Just to put it into perspective - it is impossible to find a statistical correlation between the safety features of a car and the rate of driver/passenger injury or death. The major reason for this is that the overwhelming factor is the driver, so that all other factors, including the vehicle are of secondary importance.

John

[spudboy]

Check here http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/114072-defender-safety-2.html#post1340648

Yeah - that's one of the posts I was thinking of. Car was a mess, but they walked away without much damage (which surprised me greatly!). I reckon they were very lucky.

[RR P38]

If you are in a Defender and you are hit from the rear or the front atleast it is unlikely you will be crushed in the cab by the body crumpling around you.
Side impacts are another matter entirely, the human brain doesnt take side ways impacts very well at all.
The chart posted earlier is interesting only a very small number of crashes in Defenders result in injury, but there are not many on the road really.
When i had my D2 i didnt feel half as safe in it as i do in the P38.
Side air bags should ease your concerns if fitted to any of the Land Rover range.
I know from experience that hitting a solid object in a 2a is not a good idea, 25 years ago i drove into a trench in long grass at about 35km/hr, yep i hit the steering wheel pretty hard as a teenager it hurt a lot i wouldnt want to do it now, i would most likely end up in hospital.

[BigJon]

I've seen a few pictures where they've gone shiny side up, .

I usually try to keep my cars shiny side up...:angel:

[abaddonxi]

The only statistics I've seen about Defender safety put it close to the top of the safe list, although I suspect, as John mentioned, it's a matter of the type of driver, and of the use of the vehicle.

After seven or so years on AULRO I've seen a lot of pictures of crashes, and a lot of talk about possible weakness in a rollover. None of the reported crashes here have had resulted in significant injury - from what I recall - and there were five or six rollovers in that list. The only side impacts I recall are incidents with trees and no injury to passengers.

Interesting is that the vast majority of accidents reported here involving scratches to the Defender and destruction to the other vehicle - Those were mostly front or rear impacts.

[MinniTheMoocha]

My main worry with the Defender is swerving to avoid an accident, it'd fall over pretty quickly I'd imagine.


This is only somewhat true from my own experience.

I was going down the HWY at 100Km/h and cement sheets from a truck in front started flying off the tray!

I had to take evasive action and swerved to avoid them. Thinking back I remember saying to myself much earlier on that the Defender would probably rollover if ever I had to swerve to avoid anything but in this situation it didn't!

So I am not saying it couldn't happen or that it is the best handling car in the world but it sure surprised me.

In regards to side impact see a post from Michael2 about being hit from a Toyota Land Cruiser. He might pipe in when he sees this post.

[CJT]

I think a roll over would be my only concern, even with my D2.

One thing I have noticed however is the presence a large Land Rover has. When I drive the D2 I very rarely have problems with cars cutting me off or sitting extremely close to me. It is like there is an invisible buffer to the other vehicles.

But then when I drive my sedan, I would get cut off at least once a day driving to and from work and regularly have cars sitting only a couple of metres behind me.

Still does not stop you having an impact on the side, but I definetely feel safer in my Land Rover.

[boger]

Has my first crash in my 110 defender not to long a go, I was at fault pulled out in front of this guy. He was coming from the right doing about 60k to 70k and hit the drivers side at about the centre pillar. The rock slider took all the brunt of it and a ( and i mean :) ) little damage to the, door rock slider was fine. Then I went and looked at his car it was a right off:o .Not one of my best days, all people involved were ok. I was surprised how little damage the defender had in comparison to the other car:cool:

[Flatty]

Hi Scott I hit a cow at 90kmh in my Defender 300tdi lost control, popped it on the roof and back onto it's wheels then drove it for two and a half hours to the next town. The rear view mirrors did not break and the motor did not miss a beat it kept running the whole time. I had a lump on the side of my head It was sore for a few days other wise no injuries. I was very glad to be in the Landie rather then the x-trail. It exploded on impact when I hit a couple of roos the nudge bar on it did nothing.
Regards
Flatty

[Nero]

No one had any accidents?


There is not much research into it but generally not having an accident is the safest strategy.

[BlueWagon]

A carload of teenagers lost control in the wet at the top of a 4 lane bridge and crossed the median strip into the oncoming traffic, which was me in the TD5 Defender.

I was doing 60ks and stomped the brakes. I was pretty impressed by the ABS which stopped the Deefer in a straight line without skidding in the wet. At impact I was worried that the commodore was going to come through my windscreen but it impacted at the front then spun sideways and ended up facing the same direction as me. My bullbar and front end crumpled quite well. The Defender was successfully repaired, the Commodore was a writeoff and the kids lucky to be alive...they had to squeeze out of the windows to get out.

Mark

[Beckford]

Defenders (4wds in general) are more capable off road and less capable on road (less safe). High centre of gravity, off road tyres, solid axles and a lot heavier than sedans.

I was behind a bad crash involving a Discovery on the Hume Highway a few weeks ago, which is proof of the above. Everyone needs to slow down on the black stuff!

[jx2mad]

About 30 years ago I had the misfortune to have two S.2A written off after head on smashes. Both times it was due to the other driver moving onto my side of the road. The first writeoff was hit by a sedan which the driver stated to police was being driven at around 100kph. My landrover was shunted about 10 metres back up the road and turned at 90 degrees (I was stationary when hit). The only damage to my vehicle was a buckled chassis under the firewall. It was written off. The second accident was almost identical in that the only damage to mine was a buckled chassis. Neither vehicle was fitted with a bullbar. No one was injured in the making of these accidents. Jim:):):):)

[Dungie]

After just rolling my defender and track trailer topaz van last week, on the PDR just outside Coen. I can not stress the benefits of cargo barriers. Not only for cargo restrain but the added roll over protection. Which on face value does not appear to be much but it helps, they are life savers.
We rolled at 75/80 kmh on a slight l/h bend. I believe that the r/h/r tyre rolled off the rim after suffering a puncture that was not detected. It all happens very quickly from there on. Both the defender and van finished on there roofs. Will post some pics when I workout how and get the stomach to look at them again.I have seen on this site that without pics it did not happen, how I wish that was true.
Both myself and my wife were very luck to get out with only very minor scratchs. The help and support that was freely given to the both of us by the comunity of Coen was outstanding, true Ozy spirit.

Dale.

[chook73]

Good to hear you are both ok Dale....

Regards
Iain

[LRO53]

I don't want to sound backward, As i know accidents can happen at any speed.

But was it a good idea to give the 07- defenders an extra gear 6th? As allowing people to travel at speeds of 130+ km/h in what is really still a farm vehicle a good idea?

[PAT303]

My Tdi used to do 140 when it was new,LC's have way worse handling and brakes that don't work and they can better 160,I can see where your coming from thou. Pat

[JamesH]

Is this post relevant on a thread about Defender safety? Anyway..

I concur with the comments about handling and keeping the wheels pointing down, and the comments about the main safety or non safety device being the driver. I'm so lucky I didn't have two serious accidents on this last trip.

The first one I didn't have was driving on the road to Mt Augusta, it was a good wide graded road but it was really slippery after some rain (it had been closed just after we passed the Murchison Roadhouse) but we carried on oblivious. It was quite a bit of fun actually going through the mud. Anyway other cars in our convoy were having their moments (XC90, Prado and D2 without the difflock) but I was just heading down the road like I was on rails feeling rather smug. Not too fast, maybe 50-60. Plenty of time too back right off for the corners, because a bit of slip isn't an issue on a stright section, right? So, suddenly the rails didnt head down the road, they headed to the bush, the hand of some higher being had turned my car right I was heading into the embankment. I kept the power on pretty much (mainly coz it happened so fast didn't have time to really back off) a bit of opposite lock and I avoided the embankment and continued on my way leaving some interesting wheel tracks. I got out of it, but it so could have gone pear shaped. A straight piece of wide road, a bit wet and a bit slippery. I had been given a lesson I should have been thankful for.

The second one, same story but this was in the dry near the west end of the Connie Sue, we'd had some piggish corrugations and I was tired. The road turned smooth and a graded mining road was just a few km ahead of me, the speed crept up. 80kph? Anyway I did actually decide to ease off before anything happened; the juice was less than the speed and the car was slowly slowing down, then I must have hit some soft sand or something but all hell broke loose. I was going bush fast; this time I could feel the forward momentum now coming from the side aching to flip that car, and it just so happened that it didn't, that's all. I got out of it and got on the radio and told everyone I reckoned it would take minutes before I got any colour and whatever speed they were doing, to take 15kph off right now. A mate following me didn't see it but he saw my tracks and he reckoned he went pale looking at them.

Rightly or wrongly I'm not too worried about somebody running into me in the Defender but I'm going to respect every dirt road regardless of quality, they can turn on you and you should be ready. That's my Defender safety advice.

[Nera Donna]

The biggest safety device in any vehicle is the ‘Nut’ behind the wheel. If that nut is loose your heading for trouble. Don’t let ‘reports’ about safety issues stop you from buy a Defender IF you really want one. If they were so unsafe, ADR and AMCAP would not let them on Australian roads.
Drive according to the vehicle you’re in and the road conditions as presented to you. Defenders are not speed machines, they’re not SUV’s and they’re not race cars. They’re a 4wd truck and bloody go one. Drive it accordingly.
My two bobs worth.
Cheers
Craig

[Dungie]

After two weeks of thinking about our roll over I agree the defender was not a factor. To that point I was lucky to find a helpfull dealer that had a 110 s/w on the way. The right colour and speced with M/Ts. Looking fowards to its arrival 5/6 weeks. Will be fitted with arb bar, cargo barrier, tow bar and snorkel before I pick It up. I can not wait. Loved our Tdi hope this new one can live up too the expectation.

Dale