New Computer - Apple or PC ?

[VladTepes]

Apple / PC compatability

It will be time to replace out PC some time soon. The missus was once anti-Apple but now she has an iPhone and she saw how big the screens were for the Mac’s in the Apple Store and was impressed.

Her BIG (over-riding) issue is whether she can run all her PC stuff on the Apple.. She would, for example, be working on certain documents from work (PC platform) and home (potentially Apple). Would this be likely to cause any problems?

Are there any Windows apps that DON’T work on Apple?

For example, I have Dream weaver – will that work equally well on Apple or is a different version required?

Also is it possible to play PC games on an Apple Mac ? Does it work as well ?

I really want to get the new Call of Duty game/s but am not sure whether they will work on a Mac or not.

[incisor]

stay pc

:angel:

[isuzurover]

stay pc

:angel:

x2.

Apples give you a lot less bang for your buck, and by the sound of it you may have to end up installing windows as well to run some of your applications.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Last year I went rhough the exact same dilema!

Office docs - if you use office 2011 then doc's are pretty much 99.9999% compatible. One PITA though is that F2 does not work in Excel.

Dreamweaver CS5 is available as a dedicated MAC app.

For all the apps that arent available for MAC, you'll probably find that they will work flawlessly when running in Windows via Parallels, Bootcamp, or VMWare (I use parallels).

For the record, I use MS office 2011, aperture 3 (used to use lightroom), photoshop CS5 and Autocad 2011 on the Mac. Since finding the RAVE CD work around / patch I can now reference those PDFs from the MAC with no problems.

My Faultmate MSV-2 and Memory Map software are the only 2 titles I now use Windows 7 for. You will need to do some research as to what apps you need to use and assess what / if you will need to buy new versions.

Ive found Garmin Roadtrip for MAC and Shonky Maps works pretty well, replacing Mapsource, though not as good as memory-map.

If I had to buy another computer tomorrow, would I buy a PC???? NO, definatley not, absolutely no way, it would be another MAC for sure.

If youve been used to PCs for a long while (as I have) then your first MAC is a leap of faith, but its worth it.

Oh yeah, if you get an iMac just buy the magic trackpad, dont bother with a mouse. I have both and have never really used the mouse. the trackpad thingy is fantastic.

The only thing I can really criticise with the mac's is the price, less bang for buck compared to a PC, unless you starts comparing apples and apples, i.e. business grade HP / IBMs etc, then theres not a fat lot in it.

HTH
Jon

[onesilop]

Hmmm, Apple is a whole other kettle of fish.

No software that works on a PC will work on a Mac. There needs to be a different version. There is Dreamweaver for mac, and MS office too.

Games again is another story there are mac games that are the same as PC but the offerings are limited.

Pretty much if you have brought software before you need to allow the cost of buying it again for a Mac.

Don't get the idea that I am anti Mac I have 3 of them, but the change over is costly. Also you need to consider that if you want to change back to PC with the next computer then you need to re-licence all that software again...

OK now the good part, if all you want the PC for is email internet and basic photography and video then you will find the OSX offerings to be good, and in some ways superior to the Windows Offerings.

[KFACTA]

Apple / PC compatability

It will be time to replace out PC some time soon. The missus was once anti-Apple but now she has an iPhone and she saw how big the screens were for the Mac’s in the Apple Store and was impressed.

Her BIG (over-riding) issue is whether she can run all her PC stuff on the Apple.. She would, for example, be working on certain documents from work (PC platform) and home (potentially Apple). Would this be likely to cause any problems?

Are there any Windows apps that DON’T work on Apple?

For example, I have Dream weaver – will that work equally well on Apple or is a different version required?

Also is it possible to play PC games on an Apple Mac ? Does it work as well ?

I really want to get the new Call of Duty game/s but am not sure whether they will work on a Mac or not.

I am a network admin and have had my woes with Mac and PC. Really depends what you want to do. Mac is over priced if you ask me. YOu can dual boot your mac and get best of both worlds.. or you can build a PC and run mac on it ;) http://tonymacx86.blogspot.com/2011/07/xmove-multibeast-install-os-x-107-lion.html (http://www.http://tonymacx86.blogspot.com/2011/07/xmove-multibeast-install-os-x-107-lion.html)

[incisor]

x2.

Apples give you a lot less bang for your buck,
what a croc of crap;)

vlad would drive us all nuts asking mac questions that is why i said no :D

[VladTepes]

stay pc

:angel:

Hmm, very interesting. Care to explain your rationale ?

[incisor]

Hmm, very interesting. Care to explain your rationale ?

see above

:angel:

[isuzurover]

what a croc of crap;)

vlad would drive us all nuts asking mac questions that is why i said no :D

Well that is true as well... ;)

By "bang for your buck", I meant computing power/speed vs cost. Especially for those of us who run linux so don't have to pay for our software...

[VladTepes]

he he he yeah Inc thanks.......




Probably true though.

[OffTrack]

Ahhh but you'll never get the Apple industrial design on a PC. ;)

One of the sites I administer has 60+ desktop, server and laptop Macs plus a handful of PC's for tasks that need to run on Windows.

A few staff who have been life long PC users have bought Mac's for home use in the past couple of months because they find it easier to do what they want to do on the Mac.

The other thing that seems to have been a selling point is the small foot print. New staff who haven't had previous Mac experience are usually blown away by the fact that that is sitting on the desk is the whole computer.

You'll need mac versions of your softwares, although as mentioned you can use either Bootcamp to dual boot - which is probably the best option if you want to run PC games, or a virtualisation application, VirtualBox is a very good free app for this purpose.

I run Nanocom, Microcat and Rave on XP under VirtualBox with no dramas.

cheers
Paul

[twr7cx]

Her BIG (over-riding) issue is whether she can run all her PC stuff on the Apple.. She would, for example, be working on certain documents from work (PC platform) and home (potentially Apple). Would this be likely to cause any problems?

Are there any Windows apps that DON’T work on Apple?

For example, I have Dream weaver – will that work equally well on Apple or is a different version required?

Also is it possible to play PC games on an Apple Mac ? Does it work as well ?

I really want to get the new Call of Duty game/s but am not sure whether they will work on a Mac or not.

No PC games or applications work on an Apple Mac running the Apple Mac operating system (Mac OS X).
However, an Apple Mac is no different to any PC since 2006 when they moved to Intel for their CPU's. As such you can now instal Microsoft Windows onto any 2006 onward Intel Mac. If it's running Windows then, every Windows game and application will work as per any other PC. Same same.
In addition, most manufacturers do also make a Mac version, or there is an equivalent Mac program available (sometimes superior than the PC version). An example is Microsoft Office is available for Mac too. I run Office for Mac 2011, and have had nil compatibility issues with the PCs that I use at work.

You can use a program like VMware Fusion or Parallels to run a virtual Windows operating system within the Mac operating system. Has many benefits, but also has a few draw backs.

Personally I changed to Mac over the last 24 months. I find them far more stable and they have far greater reliability. All 4 of my machines have a dual Windows install as well though.
I also find the Apple hardware to be of very high quality. Drivers for the Windows environment are easy to come by. They're a standard product as so finding solutions to problems are easy as they are rarely unique, there is usually a large knowledge base to access.

Even if Mac OS X was not my primary operating system, I would still be running the Apple hardware with Windows operating system (I find my Boot Camp Windows installs work flawlessly on my Macs).




Oh yeah, if you get an iMac just buy the magic trackpad, dont bother with a mouse. I have both and have never really used the mouse. the trackpad thingy is fantastic.

The only thing I can really criticise with the mac's is the price, less bang for buck compared to a PC, unless you starts comparing apples and apples, i.e. business grade HP / IBMs etc, then theres not a fat lot in it.

Personally I still mainly use a mouse. I use a Microsoft mouse on my Mac (the Apple mice are crud). I do like my Magic Trackpad but can't do it full time...

As for price comparison, I find theres not much in it. Apple does not compete in the budget cheap ass end of the market. They're the mid to high level gear. Previously I used to use Lenovo business machines, and have found the Apple hardware to be similarly priced, especially now that Apple have reduced their prices recently.




or you can build a PC and run mac on it ;) http://tonymacx86.blogspot.com/2011/07/xmove-multibeast-install-os-x-107-lion.html (http://www.http://tonymacx86.blogspot.com/2011/07/xmove-multibeast-install-os-x-107-lion.html)

That'd be a PITA and a lot of stuffing around. Also would detract from the macs reliability through standardisation.

[OffTrack]

Especially for those of us who run linux so don't have to pay for our software...

It's a bit like DIY car mechanics. It's free but if you billed yourself for the time you spend keeping it running it would cost you an arm and a leg ;)

[twr7cx]

It's a bit like DIY car mechanics. It's free but if you billed yourself for the time you spend keeping it running it would cost you an arm and a leg ;)

Depends how good you are at DIY...

[incisor]

By "bang for your buck", I meant computing power/speed vs cost. Especially for those of us who run linux so don't have to pay for our software...
you need to factor more than that to get anywhere near a true comparison to a std pc user.

ease of use, apple is much more intuitive for the majority of people

% of hardware that fails

years you get out of it and the cost to run it

it might be true that apple uses pc hardware but it is how they put it together that makes the difference, rarely do you see a consumer pc with the same raw low level speed spec as apple get out of their designs. there are exceptions, but very few

mac might be seen as controlling but their product works out of the box, and it works well and rarely hiccups and thats what most people want. enthusiasts are drawn to that sort of philosophy, thats why they drive land rovers and the like.

not to mention bsd flogs linux any day. :D:D:D

[JDNSW]

I think it is largely a matter of choice, but while Apple hardware is probably better quality than most (but probably not all) PC hardware, and while Linux will run on either, it is probably more hassle-free running on PC hardware, since there is a lot more experience with it.

John

[big guy]

I bought an I mac just recently, mainly for my girls school work as most schools I come across use apple.
Great screen, great design and the novelty to find the on/off switch alone is worth every cent.
Looks and feels very solid and well made.

The fact that Safari is the icon to get on the net is something that made me laugh too and took a while but my 7 year old sorted me out.

Too early to tell which is best but for now, I like it.

[twr7cx]

years you get out of it and the cost to run it

it might be true that apple uses pc hardware but it is how they put it together that makes the difference, rarely do you see a consumer pc with the same raw low level speed spec as apple get out of their designs. there are exceptions, but very few

I used to upgrade my Windows laptop at least annually. I now run a 2008 MacBook Air as my portable laptop and 2008 MacBook Pro 17" as my desk laptop at work. Both are fully specced with SSD HDD's and the max RAM, but neither ever seems overly stressed or struggling (even with the latest Mac OS X) and I haven't felt the need to upgrade.
Actually that's a lie. I tried Microsoft Windows 7 on them, and that slowed them both down... I moved back to Windows XP Professional SP3 for my Boot Camp.



it is probably more hassle-free running on PC hardware,

As a prior PC user since I got my first own computer in 1998 and an avid Mac hatter through most of the 2000's, the reason I moved to Mac two years ago was because they are more hassle-free. I haven't regretted it since. The amount of time I have saved instead of fixing stupid PC problems!!!


The thing I notice most, is that a lot of people backing PC's have never actually owned a Mac and given them a true testing as an owner user over a significant period of time. On the other hand, most supporters of Mac are exPC owners and have significant experience on a Windows PC to make an accurate comparison.

[vnx205]

It's a bit like DIY car mechanics. It's free but if you billed yourself for the time you spend keeping it running it would cost you an arm and a leg ;)

???

I install Ubuntu (for free). It works. Nothing else needs to be done.

What is all this "time you spend keeping it running" business? :)

[isuzurover]

you need to factor more than that to get anywhere near a true comparison to a std pc user.

ease of use, apple is much more intuitive for the majority of people

% of hardware that fails

years you get out of it and the cost to run it

it might be true that apple uses pc hardware but it is how they put it together that makes the difference, rarely do you see a consumer pc with the same raw low level speed spec as apple get out of their designs. there are exceptions, but very few

mac might be seen as controlling but their product works out of the box, and it works well and rarely hiccups and thats what most people want. enthusiasts are drawn to that sort of philosophy, thats why they drive land rovers and the like.

not to mention bsd flogs linux any day. :D:D:D

Agreed - there is more to it. However among my colleagues there are mac and high end pc (Dell, compaq and a few small shop builds) users. The pcs mostly run linux. All computers do a lot of modelling and simulation. The macs have the same or worse hardware reliability. One (macbook pro?) went through a couple of motherboards and 3 hard drives in the first few months after purchase.

p.s. - I was seriously considering a Mac for my latest machine, but having to justify a "business case" for a non-dell at work is a PITA these days.

p.p.s - yes I am sure it does!

p.p.p.s - I hate dells, despite the fact they have become very reliable in the last few years. Some of my colleagues run the new alienware machines for high end modeling and visualisation.

[Ranga]

Buy Michelle a Mac and yourself a PS3 ;)

PS, don't be too sucked in by the big monitors though, they're cheap as these days.

FWIW, the wife's Macbook runs no faster nor crashes any less than my W7 laptop. Both have pros and cons. I'm not anti or pro either platform - they're all effin computers!

[twr7cx]

???

I install Ubuntu (for free). It works. Nothing else needs to be done.

What is all this "time you spend keeping it running" business? :)

Mucking around with drivers and settings etc maybe?

[twr7cx]

PS, don't be too sucked in by the big monitors though, they're cheap as these days.

No, they're not. Not for the same quality at least.

An iMac 27" can be purchased from Apple for $1,7000.00 - this is a full complete computer with a 27" monitor as part of.
The only equivalent monitor is the Dell 27" unit. They are actually the same LCD. The Dell unit costs $800.00.
So that additional $900.00 has got you a full computer (motherboard, CPU, RAM, HDD, PSU, keyboard and mouse, etc.).

Yes, there are some other 27" monitors, such as an AOC offering for cheap around the $300.00 mark. The quality is terrible in comparison (I used to own one and now own the Dell unit), they are huge (the same size as the iMac despite not having the inbuilt PC) and they do not do the same resolution.

If your looking at smaller than 27" then yeah, there are more offerings and they are significantly cheaper. But I assumed by the term "big monitors' were talking about the big boys which are the 27" units.




FWIW, the wife's Macbook runs no faster nor crashes any less than my W7 laptop. Both have pros and cons. I'm not anti or pro either platform - they're all effin computers!

I personally have not had a computer freeze in the last 24 months since moving to Mac. Sure I've had Apps crash, a few random log offs (fixed that problem quickly and easily) and a couple of other odd things. But they've been rare and far between. My previous Windows laptops regularly froze requiring hard resets.


BTW - to the original thread started. Have a look at the Apple Refurb store online. Significant savings off the RRP. Still the same 12 month warranty. Can even extend the warranty. Items are generally brand new or like new. Both myself and friends have purchased laptops, iPods, iPads, etc from there and always been very happy with them.

[d@rk51d3]

At work I've been given a g4, and a Mac book pro, the boss has 2 pros and an air.

I hate the lot of em.

Build quality is nice, screens are nice but using the things is a PITA.

Networking issues, incompatibilities between OS's, the way everything feels assbackwards....... PC for me.

[JDNSW]

Mucking around with drivers and settings etc maybe?

Only if you want to. Unless you have unusual hardware drivers are invisible as far as the user is concerned these days.

I am currently running Mint 10 on a netbook and a desktop, and have not needed to even think about drivers for either. The Netbook runs a Gnome desktop, but the PC runs KDE - so that I have more things I can fiddle with!

John

[Ranga]

LOL - you had to ask, didn't you Mike :p

I'm sure this thread has totally helped you decide :angel:

[Ranga]

No, they're not. Not for the same quality at least.

An iMac 27" can be purchased from Apple for $1,7000.00 - this is a full complete computer with a 27" monitor as part of.
The only equivalent monitor is the Dell 27" unit. They are actually the same LCD. The Dell unit costs $800.00.
So that additional $900.00 has got you a full computer (motherboard, CPU, RAM, HDD, PSU, keyboard and mouse, etc.).

Yes, there are some other 27" monitors, such as an AOC offering for cheap around the $300.00 mark. The quality is terrible in comparison (I used to own one and now own the Dell unit), they are huge (the same size as the iMac despite not having the inbuilt PC) and they do not do the same resolution.

If your looking at smaller than 27" then yeah, there are more offerings and they are significantly cheaper. But I assumed by the term "big monitors' were talking about the big boys which are the 27" units.





I personally have not had a computer freeze in the last 24 months since moving to Mac. Sure I've had Apps crash, a few random log offs (fixed that problem quickly and easily) and a couple of other odd things. But they've been rare and far between. My previous Windows laptops regularly froze requiring hard resets.


BTW - to the original thread started. Have a look at the Apple Refurb store online. Significant savings off the RRP. Still the same 12 month warranty. Can even extend the warranty. Items are generally brand new or like new. Both myself and friends have purchased laptops, iPods, iPads, etc from there and always been very happy with them.

agreed - surely most users wouldn't want a 27" though would they? Probably be good as a 2nd TV though, I guess.

[OffTrack]

The macs have the same or worse hardware reliability. One (macbook pro?) went through a couple of motherboards and 3 hard drives in the first few months after purchase.


Doesn't match my experience at all. I've recently had two mac failures - a g4 Xserve power supply gave up the ghost and a hard drive failed in a 2 year old iMac. The G4 Xserve was a model which was discontinued in Jan 2004, and we have had it running 24/7/365 since it was installed. The iMac hard drive failure was the first I've had for a number of years.

This is based on a current pool of

15 * MacBook Pro's of varying ages
49 * iMac's (max 3 years old.)
2 * Intel XServes
1 * G4 XServe

Up until a year ago the organisation had about 10 eMac's (final model discontinued in October 2005) in service which were up to 8 years old and were still going strong, but were getting too slow to run recent versions of Office.

cheers
Paul

[OffTrack]

Mucking around with drivers and settings etc maybe?

No, dealing with "dependency hell" (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&tbo=1&rls=en&biw=1355&bih=764&tbs=qdr%3Ay&q=dependency+hell+linux&oq=%22dependency+hell%22&aq=0v&aqi=g-v10&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=48646l49580l0l51471l7l6l0l0l0l0l355l797l2-2.1l3l0) when trying to update software which doesn't come prepackaged with the distribution, building kernels to access features that aren't in the standard builds, updating custom kernels each time a security fix is released and so on...

I've been working/messing with *nix operating systems for a long time - starting with NetBSD running on a Mac SE30 back in the mid 90's.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

agreed - surely most users wouldn't want a 27" though would they? Probably be good as a 2nd TV though, I guess.

If budgets will stretch to a 27", go fo it. Yes its big, but the resolution is excellent and really makes for an efficient use of space and good workflow. Its also good for catching up on missed episodes of Top Gear whilst doing "proper work" on another part of the screen!

[stuee]

If budgets will stretch to a 27", go fo it. Yes its big, but the resolution is excellent and really makes for an efficient use of space and good workflow. Its also good for catching up on missed episodes of Top Gear whilst doing "proper work" on another part of the screen!

I thought that's what dual screens were for :p

[twr7cx]

I thought that's what dual screens were for :p

I used to run dual 22" monitors. Now I just run a single 27" monitor and way prefer it! Amazing how quick it stops seeming to large and just becomes the norm...

[alexturner]

At the end of the day it boils down to "You get what you pay for".

With a Mac you don't only pay for the sleek unibody aluminium chassis (the strongest consumer laptop on the market) though you pay for the brilliant support and awesome operating system that ships with the unit.

Microsoft is a software company and write their operating system for a wide variety of hardware - most of which is treated differently by the OS. This means that the MS developers have to ensure that Windows will work with all the PC's on the market.

The fact of the matter is, is that Windows has and always will experience more bugs than Mac. Although Windows is a more popular operating system and has more application support - Apple products are designed for the human. They have the most intuitive user interface of any software on the market and when something goes wrong the staff at the Genius bar are always there to assist.

As said earlier in the post, and Apple computer will run both Windows and OSX - and has the ability to run Windows from within OSX. They are well built and I'm yet to encounter a problem with the operating system. OSX is the standard in creative work (Video, Audio, Publishing) and there is a reason why to that.

You do get what you pay for, and although Macs are expensive, it will last you much longer than any PC.

... Or build a linux machine :P

[Tombie]

My Mac Lappy is sitting running:

OS X Lion
Debian
Ubuntu
Win XP sp3
Win 7

[vnx205]

At the end of the day it boils down to "You get what you pay for".


That may be true up to a point, but there are those of us who manage quite well with a machine that cost us nothing because it was a few years old and was about to be scrapped.

We install a distro of Linux that recognises all of the associated hardware and somehow we avoid all the chasing drivers and "dependency hell" that other seem to do to occupy their time or that people who haven't tried recent versions of Linux think is necessary.

We paid nothing for the hardware or the software and yet it does the job admirably. I think we got more than we paid for. :D

[Chucaro]

The mother board of my PC (5 years old) is full of corrosion caused by sea salt in the enviroment.
For sure by the end of the year I will need to replace it.
I just wonder how much will cost an Apple with twin boot HDD 500gb runing on Raid 5 plus twin 1T HDD for data running on Raid as well plus 8Gb ram and 1GB graphic card for 2 monitors.
I think that a PC based system will be cheaper and near the beach will last as long as the Apple.

[Tombie]

The mother board of my PC (5 years old) is full of corrosion caused by sea salt in the enviroment.
For sure by the end of the year I will need to replace it.
I just wonder how much will cost an Apple with twin boot HDD 500gb runing on Raid 5 plus twin 1T HDD for data running on Raid as well plus 8Gb ram and 1GB graphic card for 2 monitors.
I think that a PC based system will be cheaper and near the beach will last as long as the Apple.

Quad Core with 4 x 1tb drives and raid plus 2x 1gb graphic cards and 8gb ram would be about $5k in a Mac Pro

A 27" quad core iMac with 8gb ram, 2tb hd and 256gb ssd for swap drive, 2gb graphics card, and does dual monitor STD (but you won't need it) is $3700.00
Add an external 4x 2tb raid for $1600.00

So for a far superior set up it's $5300.00

Not bad value!!!

[Tombie]

As a comparison.

Dell quad core, 2gb video, 2tb hdd raid (mirror only), 8gb ram and no extra raid 5 is $3200.00

[Chucaro]

I will go with a PC based on an Intel system and Seagate Enterprise edition drivers for about $ 1500 and get an extra Samsung 23"monitor on the top of my 19" from my old PC.
The saving of about $ 3800 against the Apple will go towards a couple of nice Nikon lens :)
It is not good to get Dell or other brand of PC the best is get an Intel based system assembled by your local trusty supplier.

[Tombie]

So you're talking tier 3 components vs tier 1 :)

Sorry I just don't see it.
Decent MB - $400.00
Power supply - $300.00
I7 quad core - $350.00
2tb hdds - $200 each (not enterprise)
Raid
Memory

Nup!!!! Closer to 3k

[Chucaro]

I use my PC for image post processing.

Intel D975XBX2 $250.00
Seagate Entreprise 500GB $160.ea =- $ 320.00
Intel Q6600 $361.00 or Q6420 $224.00
Gigabyte Case and 600W power supply $ 150.00
That is $1081 with the expensive MB, add another $320 for 2 more HDD and we are in $1400 long way for the Apple for more than $ 5300
I have the Raid

[Tombie]

What you want to do can be comfortably done on an iMac 21" with a time machine drive hung off it for 1400.00
With better architecture, bigger hdd and faster and more stable OS :)

Using less power too! Only 205w

Already dual screen capable too...

Just pointing out that they price point about the same, but run a true Unix distribution with a very friendly GUI and churn images brilliantly...

Post process workflow on the Mac is a piece of cake compared to Windows machines.

[OffTrack]

What you want to do can be comfortably done on an iMac 21" with a time machine drive hung off it for 1400.00
With better architecture, bigger hdd and faster and more stable OS :)

Using less power too! Only 205w

Already dual screen capable too...

Just pointing out that they price point about the same, but run a true Unix distribution with a very friendly GUI and churn images brilliantly...

Post process workflow on the Mac is a piece of cake compared to Windows machines.

Another option would be the 2.5Ghz Mac Mini which has comparable specs to Chucaro's example, and like the example doesn't include monitor, keyboard or mouse. Price = $899.

[Chucaro]

Another option would be the 2.5Ghz Mac Mini which has comparable specs to Chucaro's example, and like the example doesn't include monitor, keyboard or mouse. Price = $899.

Interesting suggestions, I am not familiar with Apple gear.
For what I can see in the Apple store a Mini with dual 500gb HDD (http://store.apple.com/au/configure/MC936X/A'select=select&product=MC936X%2FA&mco=MjMzOTUzNzA) ( it does not mention if they are with a good back up warratnty like the Enterprise series) the price is $1339
If we add the other 2 500GB HDD working as well in Raid5 I think that the price will be close to $2000.

[OffTrack]

Interesting suggestions, I am not familiar with Apple gear.
For what I can see in the Apple store a Mini with dual 500gb HDD (http://store.apple.com/au/configure/MC936X/A'select=select&product=MC936X%2FA&mco=MjMzOTUzNzA) ( it does not mention if they are with a good back up warratnty like the Enterprise series) the price is $1339
If we add the other 2 500GB HDD working as well in Raid5 I think that the price will be close to $2000.


The Mac Mini with dual 500G hard drives (AU list price is $1099) comes bundled with an unlimited user version of the OSX Server OS. The optical drive is deleted and a second hard drive installed in it's place.

I'd stick with a 2.5ghz Mini with single internal drive and a RAID rather than trying squeeze additional drives into a Mac Mini. The Mac Mini has a foot print just under 20cm square and is 3.6cm tall, so it's not exactly large.

One of my clients has been running their email server and web site using OSX Server on the previous version Mac Mini and a La Cie 4Big Quadra 8TB RAID for about 18 months with zero reliability issues.

cheers
Paul

[Chucaro]

Hi Paul,
I am using the PC for image post processing and working with big files in multiple layers.
The HDD work very hard when algorithms are required to do complex tasks.
Even with the new low energy HDD they are working hot with 2 fans in the large tower.
If I fit ( if it is possible) 2 31/2 "drivers inside so mall box working on Raid I am sure that the life of the drivers will be limited.
I doubt that Apple recomend the Mac Mini for this type of work.
Perhaps the I Mac Intal I5 model is more suitable but if I have to firt the 2 extra Raid drivers on the extra Thunderball unit then the cost is not compatible with an Intel based PC with Seagate Enterprise HDD running Raid 5.
I will visit an Apple store soon to see if they can make a good deal providing that I can use on it my exsisting $ 4000 software on it.

[Pinelli]

The Mac Mini with dual 500G hard drives (AU list price is $1099) comes bundled with an unlimited user version of the OSX Server OS. The optical drive is deleted and a second hard drive installed in it's place.

I'd stick with a 2.5ghz Mini with single internal drive and a RAID rather than trying squeeze additional drives into a Mac Mini. The Mac Mini has a foot print just under 20cm square and is 3.6cm tall, so it's not exactly large.

One of my clients has been running their email server and web site using OSX Server on the previous version Mac Mini and a La Cie 4Big Quadra 8TB RAID for about 18 months with zero reliability issues.

cheers
Paul

I'm currently sitting here working on my 2006 Mac Mini, which does everything I have ever needed it to do (including run Windows for my etax - the only thing I run windows for). I have only every had it open once, and that was to install extra RAM. Work laptop is Win machine, by compulsion.
I'm a former network admin, and worked with both PCs and Apples, and run Linux on them both as well. The Apples are a nice bit of kit for both users and small-scale server work. I've never had any dramas getting Apples to talk to any other OS on a network. Windows, on the other hand.........

In fact, I've been trying to get my hands on an old 6150 workgroup server, like I was using in the mid 90s as a general linux server, and when they do come up on ebay, they still go for over $200. Like to see someone try and sell something running Win 3.11 for Workgroups and actually get a bid :p

[roverrescue]

Big Big Big picture peoples - be a part of the future.

The world will only become a better place when knowledge is no longer seen as a commodity used to trade imaginery currency BUT is instead shared freely to ensure that all have access to all knowledge. You are on AULRO, freely sharing knowledge - you are already taking part in a new paradigm.

Corporatisation of knowledge will NOT be the way of the future. Its days are numbered.

Open source IS the way of the future people - for everything. Computing & the Interwebs WILL lead public opinion which WILL lead policy which WILL then lead the messed up "exponential growth is infinately sustainable" financial markets. There will however be more 'global finanacial meltdowns' before the financial world actually realises that exponential growth is NOT possible - Midvale school for the gifted and all.


Steve

(sorry all, just needed to vent a little after spending three hours trying to budge the last 10mm fastener holding a Volvo Penta AD41 to its gear bag - cut cut OR red-n-blue will bring joy on the 'morrow)

[Chucaro]

Bugger Steve!!! what it is in your drinking water or you live close to the wind turbines that make people go funny :o :D:D

[roverrescue]

aaahhh nothing but bundies finest OP ;)

have another read...

then tell me that the interwebs (read twitter) ISNT leading the media which then ISNT leading public opinion which then ISNT leading policy ... the nest step is a change in the way the financial world is wired...

I am patient, but it will happen in my lifetime.

I betcha a carton of OP rum a battalion of mid century Romans never saw the end coming?

Dont be scared of the future - embrace Open Source!!!!!!!! :)

S

[OffTrack]

Open source IS the way of the future people - for everything.

I personally think a hybrid future is more likely - and OSX is good example of a hybrid product. ;)

The foundations of OSX are largely open source, but Apple keep the GUI related portions and other key technologies as closed source. It's pretty logical really - the unix based portions do benefit from the open source model, freeing up resources to work on areas that require innovative thought.

Apple - Open Source (http://www.apple.com/opensource/)

cheers
Paul

[stewie110]

Hi,

It depends what you want to do with your pc.. the key is knowing the apps that you use... Some of the problems I find for not running Windows include...

1. limited support for good mapping software suites. Updating firmware on GPS's etc is often not supported fully on other OS's.
2. Peripheral support.. the majority of peripherals are supported these days but if you do anything "interesting" then often the apple version doesn't exist. For example I have ECU programming and diagnostics software for my bike.. no use on an apple.

If your just browsing the net then there is little difference, however Windows is more secure these days despite what apple fanbois like to say.

[incisor]

however Windows is more secure these days despite what apple fanbois like to say.

gold...... need a bridge?

last month i had 100+ infected windows machines go thru my workshop with just about every major brand of antivirus / internet security installed failing to keep the box secured.

in the same period, one apple with software problems thru the door and it was self inflicted by the owner screwing with firewall settings.

nothing to do with being a fan, the reality speaks for itself.

[stewie110]

a few things to say about that..

1. Windows is good for your business :)
2. No operating system will protect a stupid user from themselves. (not saying that users of this forum are stupid).
3. Windows still has ~95% of the market and of that around 50% is still XP (StatCounter Global Stats - Browser, OS, Search Engine including Mobile Market Share (http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-monthly-201007-201107)) (usual disclaimer, browsers don't always == complete user stats but most people get infected PC's from the internet so it gives an insight into what's running). Having such a large slice of the market means that it will show up more.. especially in relevance to point 2.
4. Believing the fluff that OSX is super secure because it's based on BSD is Apple's marketing machine at work. They have invested significantly in trying to improve the security in OSX Lion, yet it's too early to tell if that is going to actually make any difference... lets see at next years PWN2OWN etc.. the most common vector on OSX is itunes or Safari.. as IE is on Windows (or adobe flash/reader on either OS).

These points are not specifically aimed at discrediting you (or anyone for that matter) it's more about putting some light on the reality of owning a PC (and yes Mac's are just PCs with some marketing fluff).. If you search the net many of the people writing reviews will recommend apple products because of their shine etc.. being informed about the reality can only be a good thing. People get too caught up in the marketing and don't actually investigate the root causes on the street...

That's why we live in a toyota world hahaha..


p.s.. insert disclaimer.. i don't use windows or osx... i wear a tin foil had and hide in hole...

[Chucaro]

I just wonder how many of the infected machines are fault of the owner by ignoring the recomendation of NOD32 together with Malwarebytes runing on the background and setting them to do a scan every morning before work or after a heavy searching section.
There are many of the young fellows that get fustrated with Malwarebytes blocking sites.

[incisor]

i wear a tin foil had and hide in hole...

you statements above prove that ;)

face it, you dislike apple for the sake of disliking apple, that is fine, your allowed to :p

but don't confuse your delusions with the realities of day to day to computing..

[incisor]

I just wonder how many of the infected machines are fault of the owner by ignoring the recomendation of NOD32 together with Malwarebytes runing on the background and setting them to do a scan every morning before work or after a heavy searching section.
There are many of the young fellows that get fustrated with Malwarebytes blocking sites.

very few, most people wouldn't know how and just plod on.

and they don't want to know.

most pay the annual sub to the anti-virus company and carry on regardless

they simply don't understand how it works until it costs them a few bucks and then they stop and think for a little while.

getting thru their heads that they have to alter how they go about things is the hardest part of the process.

[Chucaro]

very few, most people wouldn't know how and just plod on.

and they don't want to know.

most pay the annual sub to the anti-virus company and carry on regardless

they simply don't understand how it works until it costs them a few bucks and then they stop and think for a little while.

getting thru their heads that they have to alter how they go about things is the hardest part of the process.

Ok, then it is not the fault of the OS or software, it is plain ignorance or not care at all :)

[incisor]

Ok, then it is not the fault of the OS or software, it is plain ignorance or not care at all :)
unfortunetly the problem is the operating system, mainly the browser and associated hooks in windows case.

[stewie110]

you statements above prove that ;)

face it, you dislike apple for the sake of disliking apple, that is fine, your allowed to :p

but don't confuse your delusions with the realities of day to day to computing..

I don't actually dislike apple, but i do dislike misinformation which is what they are famous for. On the plus side apple assemble some of the best hardware and warranties in the market.. IF you buy a non-customized Mac it can be similarly priced to the equivalent pc in terms of hardware specs.. however the build quality will often be better. I bought an Macbook Pro, removed the operating system and never looked back.

Things the made me buy the Macbook Pro hardware,
1. lower profile keyboard, i.e. the space between the desk and the keys was thinner which reduced the stress of typing for 12hours a day.
2. durable finish with no splitting which I was prone to with the plastic laptops I had previously, sitting in datacentre's typing no serial consoles etc gives laptops a whole new range of stress that not all are designed to handle.
3. better than average battery life of similarly priced laptops. I now also own a Toshiba which is equivalent to a Macbook air but the battery life is lower. I get ~8hours on the MBP vs 6 for the Toshiba which makes a difference when I am on the go.

What I don't like about the MBP.
1. OSX annoys me.. get's in the way of my productivity, e.g. supporting modern NFS standards, Windows file server support is languishing behind. All the focus on making things pretty just gets in the way of the work I do.
2. The alloy finish gets nasty if I sweat on it constantly.

Apart from that buying any PC or Apple product people should be aware that they need to be vigilant against attacks... just because you don't think your a target doesn't mean you arn't.

[The GMan]

Things the made me buy the Macbook Pro hardware,
1. lower profile keyboard, i.e. the space between the desk and the keys was thinner which reduced the stress of typing for 12hours a day.
2. durable finish with no splitting which I was prone to with the plastic laptops I had previously, sitting in datacentre's typing no serial consoles etc gives laptops a whole new range of stress that not all are designed to handle.
3. better than average battery life of similarly priced laptops. I now also own a Toshiba which is equivalent to a Macbook air but the battery life is lower. I get ~8hours on the MBP vs 6 for the Toshiba which makes a difference when I am on the go.


1. Low profile keyboards are available for PC's
2. Laptop finishes, you get what you pay for. Lookup the Laptop Torture Tests.
3. Laptops available with battery life of up to 16 Hours.

Guess it is a personal choice more than anything, also depends what you need to run. ]

__________________________________________________ _______
No Apples were harmed during this post

[damo_s]

I have had one virus in the last 7 years. It all comes down to which websites you visit. I have never owned a mac, and i never will. I like PC's. Its just a personal preference. To each his own!

Perhaps PC's are more susceptible to viruses.. but if you are careful with which websites you visit, keep your antivirus updated, and you can recognise spam and malicious files, then you shouldn't have a problem!