EGR Valve Noise

[kailanayacht]

When I turn my 08 Puma (73,000km) off, a loud (rattle / scraping) noise is emitted from the engine bay. It is rather annoying / embarrasing and sounds like there is something wrong with the engine. However, I have read some older threads on this and I am lead to believe that the noise is 'normal' (although mine is probably louder than usual) and it is the EGR valves self cleaning.

Older posts also suggested that LR Technicians were instructed these noises were 'within limits' and that part replacement was not necessary at the time (a few years ago now). I am wondering if the very noisy units (like mine) are now normally replaced with quieter (or near silent) units and does anyone know how much the replacement is likely to cost?

Everything seems to be running okay, however it's just rally annoying to hear the loud rattle every time the engine is shut off.

[Drover]

Get a BAS re-map with EGR 100% close. (no more noise - no self clean cycle)

More power and torque - much smoother

Better fuel economy.

Can't go wrong ;)

[spudboy]

How much for the remap? Do you have to send your ECU away (to the UK?)?

Thanks
David

[Drover]

Hey Spudboy,

Bell Auto Services will send you a programming device that plugs into you ECU.

You then download you standard map and email to Pete Bell in the UK, along with details of any modification to your vehicle and what you use it for.

Pete will make the necessary adjustments and email you back a tuned map.

Download the tuned map into the box, plug the box back into your ECU and upload your tuned programme onto the ECU.

Done :D

You keep the box (programming device) allowing you to choose between std map and your tuned map. You would use the std map when going to the stealer for service.

Cost is about 500GBP including freight to your door. Bargin!!!

[kailanayacht]

Can I get a local WA Landrover Technician (i.e Southern, Barbagallo etc...) to do the BAS re-map with EGR 100% close (no more noise - no self clean cycle) instead of DIY via UK and cost less than 500GBP?

[Tombie]

Can I get a local WA Landrover Technician (i.e Southern, Barbagallo etc...) to do the BAS re-map with EGR 100% close (no more noise - no self clean cycle) instead of DIY via UK and cost less than 500GBP?

Nope...

[Lorryman100]

Can I get a local WA Landrover Technician (i.e Southern, Barbagallo etc...) to do the BAS re-map with EGR 100% close (no more noise - no self clean cycle) instead of DIY via UK and cost less than 500GBP?

You can if they have a BBS MSV2 as you can buy the BAS remaps direct from BBS and install them with the MSV2's FFL.


When I turn my 08 Puma (73,000km) off, a loud (rattle / scraping) noise is emitted from the engine bay. It is rather annoying / embarrasing and sounds like there is something wrong with the engine. However, I have read some older threads on this and I am lead to believe that the noise is 'normal' (although mine is probably louder than usual) and it is the EGR valves self cleaning.

To find out if it is the EGR valve and not something loose making the noise on shutdown is to unplug the EGR valve electrical plug and see if the noise disappears when you shutdown. This will throw up a DTC and illuminate the MIL until you plug it back in. But will confirm if the fault is the EGR self clean cycle. The EGR will cost around £110 from a dealer here in the UK, so not sure what the price would be in OZ. It is an easy job to replace the valve and I personaly would remove the EGR first and give it a good clean with brake cleaner to remove any carbon build up and hopefully this would stop the noise and save you the purchase of a new one.

Personally I have the Alive tuning ATRIC remap which does the same as BAS in power,torque and the EGR valve closed 100% of the time and no EGR self clean cycle. If you can do it, the best thing to do is to get that valve closed as it just cokes up your inlet manifold increases fuel consumption and limits the available power by recycling dirty exhaust fumes, there are a couple of company's that do a Puma EGR blanking kit but as yet none supply a means of cancelling the MIL light as this needs to be done in the fuel file of the Duratorq EMS. If the MIL doesn't bother you simply unplug the EGR electrical plug and this will do the same job as a blank or remap in keeping the valve closed.


HTH Brian.

If you look to the left of the EGR valve (No3) you will see the electrical connection.
http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/Defender%20110/egrvalvepic1.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/Defender%20110/egrremoval.jpg

[lambrover]

A mate of mine has a Puma and it had the EGR playing up like that and was replaced under warranty. I will let him know about the mod that can be done though, sounds great.

[Lorryman100]

Here are some live data pics showing the standard fuel file with the EGR operating as normal:

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/Defender%20110/egr1.jpg

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/Defender%20110/egr3.jpg

And again but this time with the Alive No EGR Remap:

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/Defender%20110/egr4.jpg

You will notice that the pedal position sensor indicates full throttle which if the EGR was connected, the EGR position would be showing 100% instead of zero.

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/Defender%20110/egr2.jpg

The remaped file with the EGR closed function increases power/torque and gives a freer revving throttle input as the engine is only getting cold air and fuel instead of having the recycled exhaust gases. There is also a fuel saving though I haven't noticed it as I boot the defender everywhere now as the extra power is addictive :D

[IGL002]

Nope...

Why not appoint an Aussie distributor?

[nobbyclrk]

Hi all.
First of all I want to apologise for my posting technique. I'll work it out.

"You will notice that the pedal position sensor indicates full throttle which if the EGR was connected, the EGR position would be showing 100% instead of zero."

Are you sure about that?
I would like to see live data that demonstrated that. Apologies for being sceptical about this but it goes against everything I've been taught and there are alot of fallacies about EGR and reprogramming PCM's (generally) and some of these remaps will destroy your engine.
The example's you have given really need to be comparing apples for apples. But still very interesting. Thanks.

What program is that live data taken from?

Thanks
Andy

[Lorryman100]

Hi Andy,

the live data screens were only posted to show that the EGR stays closed through the remap the whole time and the OEM file was used as a comparison. The live data was recorded as an avi file from a MSV2 on to my laptop.
As to the remaps destroying engines, I have not heard of any from people using the Alive or BAS remaps on a Puma, could you clarify if this isn't the case? The reason Alive and BAS get such good reviews and are well respected is because they produce their own remap files and do not use generic files like other companies who specialise in tuning any car. They are both Land rover experts when it comes to tuning and Pete Bell from BAS was actually the first person to do any research and development into remapping a Puma.

Defender2 - View topic - BAS/Allisport Puma Defender 2007 development - public for th (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic5632.html?highlight=)

I can only speak for Alive now as this is who I have had the most experience with. Gary tests all his new maps on his own Defender before releasing them to his customers, in fact I was involved in the EGR closed upgrade testing.

Defender2 - View topic - Alive Tunings No EGR Upgrade (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic7064.html?highlight=alive)

As to the EGR live data concerning the 100% at full throttle, It's not, it's zero but only when the pedal is on the floor. I can confirm this as I have just spent the last 3 hours testing my Puma with the scangauge,nanocom and MSV.

If the pedal is held just of the floor when accelerating I get the EGR showing
being open about 70%:

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/egr17911.jpg



But when I push the pedal completely to the floor the EGR reads zero until I lift my foot then it returns to a high reading:

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/3egr17911.jpg

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/egrhigh2.jpg

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/2egr17911.jpg

I now know that the scangauge doesn't give an accurate reading for the EGR because when accelerating as it goes straight to 100%. The live data from the MSV and nanocom gave accurate indications based solely on each others readings and so I will plug in the IDS/VCM system tomorrow and go and do some more tests to confirm the readings.
So I now have to agree with you that at 100% acceleration the valve is closed but also when not at 100% acceleration, as in normal driving the valve is open 75% most of the time with fluctuations up and down. :TakeABow::TakeABow:

Though I must admit I like it closed 100% of the time. :twisted::p

Andy. If you pm me your email address I will send you the complete live data recordings I made for this answer.

[Lorryman100]

Here is a picture of the EGR Electrical Plug should you wish to unplug the EGR. The MIL will illuminate and will log DTC's P1402 and P1409 and will not go into limp mode. The DTC's can be deleted only once the plug is re attached otherwise the codes will re appear. I used to have this unplugged until I remapped with no issues other than the MIL.

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/IMG00297-20110818-1806.jpg

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/IMG00299-20110818-1825.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[nobbyclrk]

Thanks for that reply.

The remaps I was thinking about are on petrol engines and not Land Rover (apologies for the confusion). When a remap is done the parameters that indicate a fault detected by the Oxygen or knock sensors is shifted so much the MIL will never be illuminated. Allowing the engine to run very lean while at cruise, therefore returning a great fuel economy but at the cost of engine reliabilty.

The reason I asked about the EGR was purely from a technical point of view (my knowledge of electronic diesel is some what more limited). I thought maybe they have started using EGR at Wide Open Throttle (WOT) as part of emmission control.
One of the reason it is not used (in all example's I know of) at WOT it effectivly reduces the size of the engine and therefore your 2.5 becomes a 2.2L. So you may of well bought a 2.2L in the first place. Their is a lot more to it than that. But...
I guess why fuel economy is improved on cruise with the EGR off is because higher gas tempretures are achieved therefore a greater amount of expansion in the combustion chamber (???? Not sure). If someone is able to confirm that it would be great. A pyrometer measuring exhaust gas temp with and without EGR at cruise would be interesting.

Cheers.
Andy

[Lorryman100]

I guess why fuel economy is improved on cruise with the EGR off is because higher gas tempretures are achieved therefore a greater amount of expansion in the combustion chamber (???? Not sure). If someone is able to confirm that it would be great. A pyrometer measuring exhaust gas temp with and without EGR at cruise would be interesting.

I have noticed that the fuel demanded drops slightly at cruise with a known engine load and revs with the EGR closed and take this info as meaning a cleaner burn as the exhaust gases are not lowering the combustion temp. As we all know that the EGR gases being recycled into the Inlet manifold and then into the combustion chamber actually lower the combustion temp therefore reducing power output as a by product of the recycled emissions. And with the EGR closed the power output will be as you say more comparable with the 2.4 fitted compared to a functioning EGR's power drop in the same engine. I have a thermocouple fitted downstream of the Turbo which is not accurate enough or in the correct position to monitor the differences in having a functioning/ disabled EGR. However in the near future I will be replacing the Turbo unit with a hybrid and ergo will also need to replace the exhaust manifold. I will then take the opportunity to drill and weld on a nut on the upstream side of the turbo flange to allow fitting of a new thermocouple to give more accurate EGT readings, or hopefully this will come as standard on the new manifold so I will take up your interest in the temps and will post them once everything is changed next year. The other options are to blank the EGR, which I think will cause MAP issues unless the EGR outlet assembly is re fabricated to over come this, as one German company is looking into with an already designed prototype.

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/EgrBlank.jpg https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Unfortunately the blank comes with a problem, the MIL will illuminate as the EGR has been removed. The only way around this is a software patch or possibly the design of a plug in box attached to the vehicle looms EGR plug to simulate the EGR functions and signal returns to the ECU. Though if you have the EGR closed on the remap would you need to blank the EGR?
Personally I think the remap is a better and not as permanent as removing the EGR altogether, as it can be swapped out in under 10 mins. I also think that even if you did blank the EGR you would still need some alterations done to the existing OEM fuel file to take into account the changed parameters that the ECU uses to determine the EGR position. We all know that the ECU uses the information from the MAP and Manifold air pressure, TPS, Fuel rail pressure, Engine temp/coolant temp, MAF,Barometric and air intake temp against the factory settings stored in the fuel map file to set the EGR opening %. So by changing say, reducing the MAP because the Gas transfer and mixer pipe has been removed due to the blank then the OEM map settings would not equate to the readings being received by the MAP sensor. But as you say there is more to it than that...........

As a side project I am curious as to the temp of the EGR cooler pipe (No3 in the bottom pic) with the EGR closed and working as normal? I have a contact thermocouple for my Fluke DMM which I think I'll wrap around the cooler pipe and do some more testing with the EGR closed and open. I'm just curious if when the cooler blank is fitted if there would be any rise in temp or if the temps would stay the same or if the cooler would actually drop the EGT in the exhaust manifold? Anybody any thoughts on this? Would the coolant pipes even need to be attached as the EGR is gone, or will removing them increase the EGT and pressure in the manifold?

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/Defender%20110/egrvalvepic2.jpg


Brian.

[kailanayacht]

Very interesting reading but I think re-mapping is starting to get a bit too technical for me.......I have come from owning a 1985 Stage 1 V8 3.5L to now owning a puma.......prefer the old dash but love the mod cons inc. coil suspension, a/c, power steering...aaaahhhh the comforts.

In an attempt to reduce the volume of the annoying valve cleaning noise on shutdown, I have decided that I will remove the EGR valve and clean with brake fluid as suggested by Lorryman100. Seems to me relatively straightforward removal and installation process involving unplugging the electrical connector, removing 4 bolts and replacing 2 gaskets. That simple hey? I am hoping the parts that require to be cleaned (to remove carbon build-up etc.) will be obvious to me once the unit is removed for inspection? Anyone done this before with good results?

If this doesn't work then I will investigate to purchase a new valve.

[kentkal]

With my BAS remap, the EGR self cleaning still cycles at shut down. Some people on the forum say thier BAS remap cancels out the cleaning cycle. I wonder if I have the EGR closed option (it was ordered and paid for), and Peter from Bell Auto says the cleaning cycle is still active even with the closed option. Any thoughts

[PAT303]

I don't know what the problem is,mines done the cleaning shukker shukker a few times and I can hardly hear it.I think complaining about a 3-4 second shukker shukker every now and then is getting a bit princess like. Pat

[Drover]

I have not heard the EGR cleaning cycle since my BAS re-map was installed.
Not once....

[Allan]

I don't know what the problem is,mines done the cleaning shukker shukker a few times and I can hardly hear it.I think complaining about a 3-4 second shukker shukker every now and then is getting a bit princess like. Pat

When the valve is goosed Pat it sounds like an old dunney door swinging in the wind. You can hear it 20 mtrs away:D. Not a good sound when parking next to a Poorole or Tojo.

Allan

[PAT303]

OK,I didn't know that.I'm getting the remap done once I sell the L322 so it'll never get to that point. Pat

[Allan]

Re map time for mine very soon. One EGR was enough.

Allan

[IGL002]

To save me searching the forum :), can someone please tell me why the EGR is so "evil" and reviled by all who cross its path?

No doubt Karl B can tell us what playing with it does for our warranty :)...

What does lack of EGR do for emissions at rego time?

Iglooist,

2011 Defender 110 Wagon

"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"

[Lorryman100]

The remap files for the EGR cancel out the self clean cycle on the Alive tuning remaps for certain, and I would think that Pete's would as well. The only downside I see to having the EGR self clean cycle cancelled is that over time the valve will be closed permanently due to being coked closed. This would only cause problems at a later date if you ever put the original OEM fuel file back on as the EGR wouldn't work causing the MIL to light up. Then again if the original map went back on and the EGR was coked closed you could always unplug it!
I see the remap as a way of closing the EGR only as a temp measure before removing the EGR altogether at a later date by means of a blank as the MIL will be taken care of with the remap file.
I have done more research into removing the EGR completely and it looks as if anyone with the EGR closed remap could get this done quite soon though it would probably affect the warranty of newer vehicles. My Puma is 2 at the beginning of next month and I want everything in place ready to swap out once it is out of warranty.
The next thought I've had is to remove the EGR cooler pipe completely and blanking the exhaust manifold instead as this would give an excellent and easy to access fitting point for a EGT thermocouple. The heat exchanger pipes could be blanked/connected allowing a complete coolant circuit.

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/EGRremovalnamed.jpg

Now if you remove all the parts in blue from the below picture all you will be replacing it with is the above picture. Apart from the MAP sensor that is.

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/egrvalvepic2coolerremoved.jpg

On the picture below the original idea from Entreq was to blank the cooler pipe and remove the EGR and gas mixing pipe replacing the EGR inlet manifold with a modified one. But on the above picture, if the blank was fitted to the exhaust manifold it would give a cleaner removal of the complete EGR system and the handy mounting point for an EGT thermocouple once it was drilled and tapped.

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/egrremoval1.jpg

Here is the exhaust manifold to show where the blank would go including the mounting point for the thermocouple.

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/exhaustmanifoldthermocouple.jpg

In the UK the MOT test only looks for excessive smoke from the exhaust. So here the EGR does nothing other than meet the Euro emissions standard for new vehicles. I don't know the testing procedure in OZ though so the removal may be a no goer for OZ vehicles.

[kentkal]

To save me searching the forum :), can someone please tell me why the EGR is so "evil" and reviled by all who cross its path?

No doubt Karl B can tell us what playing with it does for our warranty :)...

What does lack of EGR do for emissions at rego time?

Iglooist,

2011 Defender 110 Wagon

"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"





Why is the EGR so evil? Directing exhaust emissions back into the engine, nearly as bad as running with no air filter. Horrible horrible gadget, it goes against all sensable thinking IMHO.

[nobbyclrk]

To save me searching the forum :), can someone please tell me why the EGR is so "evil" and reviled by all who cross its path?

No doubt Karl B can tell us what playing with it does for our warranty :)...

What does lack of EGR do for emissions at rego time?"

I can give a bit of a basic insight into it (although I am more of a spark ignition person than a compression ignition one, hopefully I'll get it all right).:unsure:

The poor old EGR valve is a poorly misunderstood dirty little sod. What his job is to let inert exhaust gas into combustion chamber to take up space which will result in lower exhaust tempretures (EGT).
Lower EGT reduce the amount of Nitrous oxides (NOx) created in the exhaust gas. NOx is a pretty nasty pollutant which is what that brown haze is over city's. Vehicles are major contributers to this haze, especially ones with disabled EGR valves.:whistling:

When operating correctly there is no differance in the max power output of an engine as EGR is off under wide open throttle (WOT). Light throttle/cruise is when EGR is brought in, in varying amounts. I suspect fuel economy may suffer slightly due to the reduced EGT therefore expansion (unsure about this). Although, if this is the case, the higher EGT may possiblely contribute to early engine ware (valve's burning, turbo vane tips fretting).

The trouble begins when it starts to play up. Because the valve operates in the exhaust gasses in can get very dirty then it becomes prone to stick and not seal correctly. This allows unmetered exhaust gasses into the combustion chamber, pushing out needed oxygen to complete combustion properly. The result is black smoke, lower power and poorer economy, hard starting. Not good.

EGR's have always given problem from sticking, poor seating to vacuum leaks. This leads to many shiney new parts getting fitted to your engine and a massive bill as dumb mechanics try to figure out why it won't run properly. So people have always tried to disable this little buggar before he causes any problems.
But manufacturers are always after ways of tracking the valves performance. First of all a positon sensor was fitted so the PCM could monitor the valves open/shut position. Then they realised that was not enough (it did not allow for blocked passages i.e blanking plates) as flow needed to be monitered. So this is done by cross referancing air flow past the MAF with manifold pressure and RPM. Now it can monitor for EGR performance. But with PCM's becoming programable, to allow for greater flexabilty, after market programmers are finding ways around that.
But beware the manufacturer is again on the move. It may become harder to just slip the original programme back in again during service time to keep your warrenty. PCM's in some vehicles are logging activity that some sort of manipulation has occured.

As for emission's testing in NSW, it's vertually non-existant. So unless the RTA pull you up for a test you can pump that brown haze out all day long. But if they do catch you out and find out you changed the emmissions on it. :wasntme: The house may require remorgaging. Very stiff penalty's.:coplight::rulez:
Although it is quite ironic (typical government,RTA). Those new diesels (common rails) that pump out no smoke, ultra clean ect. If that does not have a diesel particulate filter (DPF) fitted (and many in Australia don't). Try and avoid standing behind it. Nasty crap can come out of there. It's not what you can see, it's what you can't.:firedevil:

Amazingly cars can be built today that, in some cities, the gas exiting an exhaust is less toxic than when it entered the engine.

I hope that helps. Probably a bit more than you wanted though.

[kentkal]

My point exactly. If there is enough crudd to cause faults in the EGR valve, imagine what it does to a precision instriment like a high performance engine working at next to near max out put just to get the job done.

[PAT303]

The Td5's have had blanking kits for years and they all seem to use less fuel which equals less polution.They all go better also so for me the EGR valve is a waste of space. Pat

[Allan]

My point exactly. If there is enough crudd to cause faults in the EGR valve, imagine what it does to a precision instriment like a high performance engine working at next to near max out put just to get the job done.

This is what I think stuffed my EGR, full load in and on the vehicle, towing a loaded boat in North West temps, the poor old EGR must have been glowing.
Thay are junk, best done away with I think.

Allan

[nobbyclrk]

The Td5's have had blanking kits for years and they all seem to use less fuel which equals less polution.They all go better also so for me the EGR valve is a waste of space. Pat

Not sure how that works. Less fuel does not mean less pollution.
As I said they may go better but are trade off's which may be engine wear and tear.

[nobbyclrk]

My point exactly. If there is enough crudd to cause faults in the EGR valve, imagine what it does to a precision instriment like a high performance engine working at next to near max out put just to get the job done.

Actually the crud is generally caused by poor combustion. Dirty injectors can create alot of crud.

I'll find out if EGR's are used on high performance engines. My neighbour builds professional rally engines for a living. ;)
But I do know they run catalytic coverters. Another item all to quick to be eliminated.

[kentkal]

When I stated "high performance" I was actually refering to the puma engine, as it does work hard. Guessing the duty cycle of the engine would be in the region of 75%. Not much room for anything not to be working at/or near optimum.

[Allan]

Actually the crud is generally caused by poor combustion. Dirty injectors can create alot of crud.

I'll find out if EGR's are used on high performance engines. My neighbour builds professional rally engines for a living. ;)
But I do know they run catalytic coverters. Another item all to quick to be eliminated.


I know most of the very high output Subaru WRX and Skylines dump the cats when after extra power, again not legal, and yes they have EGR valve's, at least I know Subaru do. Autronic and other after market ECU's get around the light on the dash/limp mode even the MAF problem as with these ECU's the MAF is not used, and as with after market tunes on Land Rover the EGR is shut down. Pro rally teams I doubt would de-cat or shut down EGR valves on their vehicles but if you have the car and the cash they will do it for you, the team cars do use after market ECU's.
Allan

[Redwing]

G'day. I bought my Defender 110 new in 2008. Had my first EGR valve replaced by ULR under warranty in Melbourne at approximately 30,000km. The new one started making that noise almost immediately. I have put up with it for a while now (Vehicle now done 67,000km) but it recently started displaying some new symptoms other than the noise on engine shut down.

To begin with I noticed the engine making a lot of 'Whooshing' noise on turbo spool-up from the snorkel (LR fitted as new). This has now ceased however, at that point the engine started to surge just a little bit particularly under load maintaining approximately 80km per hr, 5th gear, 2300rpm going up hill. Since then I have noticed that under acceleration and particularly holding the speed mentioned above, the vehicle is expelling thick black exhaust fumes like never before. Very embarrassing when driving over Brisbanes gateway bridge with other traffic behind me!

Has anyone else experienced this problem please or have any suggestions?

Cheers!

[PAT303]

Remap. Pat

[Lorryman100]

The black smoke is indicative of over fuelling which can result if active boost is not being achieved. Do you know if any DTC's are logged in the ECU and if so what are they? If the EGR valve was stuck open the Puma would be sluggish and would smoke a bit so if you can hear it completing its self clean cycle and think it is closed, unplug it and go for a drive and see if the smoking still occurs. You will get the MIL illuminated and a couple of DTC's will be logged as well, P1402 and P1409. Does the Puma still pull as normal? Pumas have had a recall for the Turbo modulator harness being damaged due to heat and vibration damage resulting in broken wires. I would check the modulator wiring as well as the turbo modulators actuator control bar is free and is not sticking. Also there should be some movement in the bar and it should twist slightly from side to side. The next thing would be to remove and clean the MAP sensor as this is the sensor the ECU uses to control the angle of the variable vanes in the turbo by way of the modulator.

Turbo Modulator Harness

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/Defender%20110/IMG_1098Large.jpg

Turbo Modulator Electrical connection plug:

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/Defender%20110/IMG_1093Large.jpg

Turbo Actuator control bar, you can see the modulator arm at the top and the vane control arm at the bottom.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

MAP sensor and EGR locations:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

If you have a nanocom etc, you can check the live engine data for MAP pressure and what the EGR is doing at full throttle. If the MAF sensor has failed this would result in higher fuel use that could lead to excessive black smoke as the ECU reverts to stored values for fuelling calculations? If you think it is the MAF then they are not serviceable and need replacing, though they are not expensive, about £35 in the UK.

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/IMG00393-20111020-1237.jpg

Turbo Modulator Service Bulletin:

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/Turbomod1.jpg

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/Turbomod2.jpg

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/Turbomod3.jpg

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/lorryman100/Turbomod4.jpg

HTH Brian.

[Beckford]

30,000km service yesterday. (2010 Puma)

EGR valve is going to get replaced under warranty, as it is making excessive noise.

[4wheeler]

I have just come back from two weeks in the Flinders Ranges in South Australia. Had the car serviced, set off on the trip and wouldn't you know it, MIL warning (engine warning lamp) comes on 400km later. Scangauge read P0404 which is an EGR fault. Luckily was only 20km from a S.A. dealer who confirmed my thoughts. Car ran O.K. apart from light. They had no time to look at it and suggested a dealer in a capital city might be able to look at it. I contacted a dealer and the parts guy was fantastic. He ordered a new EGR for me just in case and I picked it up the next day as they got it in from Sydney overnight. Unfortunately the service people were very busy and did not want to know about my problem even though all I wanted was for them to plug into the OBD and confirm the fault reading so I could make an informed choice as to continue into the more isolated parts of South Australia. I was wanting to pay for their time. I was told if I brought it in 4 days later they would look at it. Spare parts guy fantastic,10/10, service 0/10.

MIL cleared either by use of scangauge or if fault does not reoccur will self clear after 4 start-ups of car. Took the part and risk and headed further north. MIL came on 1200km later but self cleared again. MIL came on twice in 4500km.

Using scanegauge reading found that when EGR was at 100%, engine sounded tinny or like injector rattle. Not so evident under throttle load, but more evident under light throttle load. EGR would operate most of the time changing continuously but would stick on 100% at least once or twice a day and the engine did not sound sweet. Stopping the car and switching off would get the EGR operating to what I felt was normal. Will be fitting new EGR and see what difference it makes.

If you don't have a scangauge, spend the $200.00 or so and get one. Fantastic little device. New EGR cost $300.00 discounted including gaskets. I thought about fitting it on the run but the bolt access under the manifold and behind valve actuator looked tricky. Cars performance and fuel consumption was not affected. In the end I could tell when the EGR was at 100% by the sound of the engine. Also EGR valve cleaning cycle is getting louder for sure. My 2007 Puma had just had the 50,000km service done. This fault was in no way related to the service, just bad luck.

Thought this information might be useful for others.
P.S. Apart from the problem, the Defender was fantastic to drive over some tough tracks, great fuel consumption at 90-95km/hr and inspired confidence in everything I attempted. Land Rover service average. May be I should stick a Range Rover badge on the front of the Defender as ther service manager was wearing a suit! Can I say that on a forum? Its the way I felt. I will edit it if required.

[Tombie]

Better still...

Spend a bit more - Get a BAS Tuning module!

You'll get a better tune, more power and torque.
Better fuel economy.

And - A built in scan gauge.

And... The mapping disables the EGR fully closed so no more EGR issues ever!

[4wheeler]

Better still...

Spend a bit more - Get a BAS Tuning module!

You'll get a better tune, more power and torque.
Better fuel economy.

And - A built in scan gauge.

And... The mapping disables the EGR fully closed so no more EGR issues ever!

Skuilnaam,
Sounds good to me. Did not know it had diagnostics built in. Will have to fit the new EGR then BAS Tune it. As you say, no more EGR issues.

Thanks