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View Full Version : RRS pulls sharply right...what's THAT about???



GregMilner
23rd August 2011, 06:16 PM
Came back from a Gibb River trip, all going well. Had the off-road wheels swapped for the city wheels and tyres, and suddenly the car surges sharply to the right under acceleration from start.
What th...?
Take it back to Barbagallo Tyres, where they put it on the hoist and check the wheel alignment...all perfect.

The technician takes it for a test drive. Comes back and asks his boss to take it for a test drive. Mmmmm....still taking off to the right.

Service department next. More tsk tsking, scratching of chins. Dunno mate. You had the steering rack etc replaced under warranty a few months ago didn't you? Yep. After complaining about steering wheel vibration under brakes at freeway speeds. (only took 5 months to get the parts.)

So today I noticed the steering wheel vibration is back too.

The vehicle's booked in for diagnostics on Thursday. Could all this have something to do with the frequently-appearing warning that only normal suspension height is available? Have the lower ball joints somehow worn unevenly on the Gibb?

Any clues much appreciated. I don't want some kind of snow job from them. Hell, the car's only done 18,000km.

Graeme
23rd August 2011, 07:04 PM
Diagnostics should help find a start if there's really a fault. The suspension system reacts to any ABS-reported fault but usually seems to drop to a "safe" lower height rather than stay at normal height.

Has a significant wheel balance weight gone astray in the change-over? Are the tyre pressures OK?

DiscoWeb
23rd August 2011, 07:28 PM
If you are sure it is not alignment and balance could it be something in the drive train.

You sure they fitted the same size tyres ? just joking but have been sillier things that have happened.

George

ADMIRAL
23rd August 2011, 09:07 PM
A process of elimination I suspect. Greg you have said it appeared when you changed the tyres/rims over. Are you saying it doesn't do the same thing with the offroad tyres & rims fitted ? If not, that would be my starting point. ( tyres ) Doesn't explain why it would only occur only under acceleration though. Bias issues with tyres are usually constant.

If the hard right issue is there with all tyres, have the rh cv checked, and I would guess the LR boys will look pretty carefully at the traction control/abs systems.

GregMilner
24th August 2011, 09:04 AM
Mmmmm....well it certainly wasn't apparent with the off road tyres/wheels. And it was running perfectly when the road wheels were removed and stored in the garage three months ago.
Thanks guys, I'll put the ball joint and traction control system suggestions to them when I see them tomorrow.
There is definitely a 'wrong' feeling to the car at the moment.

Mike_S
24th August 2011, 07:01 PM
Is it just under acceleration or is it under braking as well ?

Pulling to the right under braking could indicate a stuck / sticking left hand front brake caliper that's all.

GregMilner
24th August 2011, 07:59 PM
No it's just under acceleration Mike.

gghaggis
25th August 2011, 10:12 AM
Lower control arm bushes?

Cheers,

Gordon

GregMilner
25th August 2011, 10:31 AM
Yes, that was my question to the service people when I dropped the car off this morning....

GregMilner
26th August 2011, 03:06 PM
Oh dear. This is not good news.
I have heard nothing from the LR service people since I dropped the car to them yesterday morning.
So this afternoon I put a call in. "Er, have you fixed my car?"

Pause.

"Ahhhh...actually...not quite."

This is not a good sign. This is not the response I was hoping for. Turns out they've been working on the thing most of yesterday and all of today. Diagnosis? There isn't one.
In fact, they have not a clue why the bloody thing is pulling hard right under acceleration.
So I eventually get to talk to Cyril, the mechanic. Seems it's beyond him. He thinks it might be something he calls 'torque stick', whatever that is. That's the best he can come up with. So what are you doing about it Cyril, I ask.
He says he sent a 'please help' message (via their internal technical gizmo) to LRA this morning. No response yet.

So as it stands, I have a $125,000 car that's virtually unserviceable, and absolutely no idea if I'll get it back, when I'll get it back, or in what condition I'll get it back.

This is my first Land Rover. Before this happened I was happily telling everybody I'd probably stay with them for the rest of my life. Brilliant cars.

Except when they're not. Is this typical of Land Rover service/reliability for these new models?

LOVEMYRANGIE
26th August 2011, 03:23 PM
Torque steering possibly due to dodgy half shaft on LH not providing drive to the wheel, dud RH wheel bearing causing it to toe out under load....

The wheel change could have a lot to do with it. Depending on the width and off centre differences, changing out would most likely require an alignment every changeout.
I would assume the offset for the bush wheels would be more than the road wheels. It's possible it's stressed out the front end somewhere.
Mind you Barbagallo Tyres are just as if not more useless than the dealership....

You couldn't pay me to go there for anything....

Using Capitals, the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse or helping your uncle jack off a horse...

GregMilner
26th August 2011, 03:41 PM
Does torque steering have anything to do with 'torque stick', as it was described to me by the mechanic?
When the bush tyres went on three months ago, they were fitted to the original 19 inch wheels that came with the car.
When the city 20 inch wheels went back on, the alignment was done and found to be perfect. And then it started to veer right.
The service department says they've checked everything, and can't find the fault. Control arm bushes, half shafts etc.
They just rang me to say they've called LRA and LRA has called England and they're waiting on a call back. Which now means Monday at the earliest.
*Sigh*.

Surely, with tens of thousands of even this new model on the road, it's not rocket science. It's ONLY a car, with defined and limited mechanical and electrical problem possibilities that should be relatively easy to track down. And after all, if trained and experienced LR technicians can't track down in two days what should be a simple cause, what hope do we have?

Mike_S
26th August 2011, 07:56 PM
Greg, long shot here but have you tried a post on www.rrsport.co.uk (http://www.rrsport.co.uk) to see if anyone here has had the same issue ? Given we have far more RRS's on the road here in the UK than there are over there, it may well be something that's others have experienced.

It's certainly an odd one though, so I'm not surprised your tech's can't find it.

Graeme
26th August 2011, 08:18 PM
When the city 20 inch wheels went back on..
Maybe the wider, better gripping 20" are pulling a failing bush whereas the MTRs don't. Have the front left and right wheels been swapped to check if it still pulls to the right? Maybe there's a faulty tyre that previously was fitted to the rear.

Edit. Are the 20" LR or after-market? If after-market then perhaps they aren't all the same offset, with a dud one previously on the rear.

Piddler
26th August 2011, 08:34 PM
seems we might need to learn some patience here and give them a fair go.

It is only a mechanical car they will work it out.

cheers

GregMilner
26th August 2011, 09:01 PM
Maybe the wider, better gripping 20" are pulling a failing bush whereas the MTRs don't. Have the front left and right wheels been swapped to check if it still pulls to the right? Maybe there's a faulty tyre that previously was fitted to the rear.

Edit. Are the 20" LR or after-market? If after-market then perhaps they aren't all the same offset, with a dud one previously on the rear.

Graeme, that might be it! The 20" wheels ARE after market, and when they were put back on the rears were put on the front. Maybe, just maybe, that could be it....will suggest that to the service guys on Monday.
If that's the case, and we swap them back again, can there be any damage done by having the wrong offset on one of the back wheels?

GregMilner
26th August 2011, 09:01 PM
Greg, long shot here but have you tried a post on www.rrsport.co.uk (http://www.rrsport.co.uk) to see if anyone here has had the same issue ? Given we have far more RRS's on the road here in the UK than there are over there, it may well be something that's others have experienced.

It's certainly an odd one though, so I'm not surprised your tech's can't find it.

Mike thanks for that, will do.

Graeme
27th August 2011, 05:19 AM
If that's the case, and we swap them back again, can there be any damage done by having the wrong offset on one of the back wheels?
I wouldn't expect damage, just far less capacity to steer the vehicle from the rear. The left and right handling might not be quite identical. However the idea of different offsets is clutching at straws a litte but needs to be checked in these circumstances.

Graeme
28th August 2011, 06:16 PM
If the tyres are directional or asymetrical then make sure they're fitted correctly for each side. Also check that they are all the same width and aspect ratio too.

GregMilner
28th August 2011, 06:40 PM
Yeah they're neither directional nor asymmetrical Graeme, and they're all the same size and aspect ratio. The more I think bout, the more I think it's something to do with a dodgy offset on one of them.

GregMilner
29th August 2011, 04:45 PM
Well, after all that....it WAS the wheels. I went into the workshop this morning and quietly suggested to the chief technician that they swap the wheels front for rear, back to what they were before the off road wheels were put on three months ago.
Lo and behold, they phoned me a few hours later. No more veering right.

These people are supposed to be the experts, yet they hadn't figured that simple solution out?? What th...?

Thanks to all who contributed their suggestions to this thread. Maybe the LR technicians should subscribe to Aulro, they might pick up some practical solutions and clear thinking. Even the bleeding obvious:-)

Graeme, good call on the offset issue. Now the trick is to find out which one of the rear ones is a dud.

Graeme
29th August 2011, 07:06 PM
Good to find that there was no problem with the suspension anyway.

If it is an offset difference, I'd expect the one that was on the left will have less positive offset (eg 40 mm vs 53 mm std - a wider track) giving steering priority under drive to that side.

Did the steering pull left, even slightly, on overrun?

GregMilner
29th August 2011, 09:37 PM
Not sure Graeme. The mechanic said they took it into the tyre shop where all the rims were checked independent of the tyres and 'force balanced'. They were found to be 'out' but to what degree I don't know...they were talking 80 grams here and 30 grams there which sounds quite a lot to me.
In any event, there was previously no noticeable pull to the left on over run, that I could detect.
It may all come down to buying aftermarket wheels without knowing where they come from.
All seems good now though. Thanks again for the wise input.