New Puma

[oldyella 76]

Hi all thinking of a new 110 defender later in year. Bit of a bugger as my local dealer who I got the last 3 from got the flick. Did go to a Melb dealer and was not real happy with the prospect of a long drive though Melb for servicing,but might have to. Does anyone have any gripes the Geelong or Albury dealers.
Do I wait for the new 2 litre model or are the bugs out or the existing models.
Thanks in advace.

[newhue]

bugs, what bugs...just water in mine.:p

If it were me I'd try for a 2.4. Australia is a BIG country, and to have a 2.2 running up and down highways moving a 2 ton vehicle is getting a bit small.
I have no doubt it will do it, but it will probably be working a bit harder as well.

Europe, 2.2lt sure, but not for me here in Aus.

[Loubrey]

Still wondering if the 2.2 will be called "Puma" :) The name refers to the 2.4 engine project exclusively. Rest of the world calls them TD4-TDCi in any case, so they'll most prbably not bother with a new project name?
Thoughts anyone?

[KarlB]

I suspect that we will just refer to them as 2.2 Pumas and the older ones will become 2.4 Pumas. My understanding is the name Puma comes from the Ford Duratorq engine, the first design of which was codenamed Puma. There is now a range of Ford diesel engines based on this original Puma design (now called ZSD) in sizes 2.0, 2.2 and 2.4 litres. So the 2.2 is as much a Puma as the 2.4.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[newhue]

I suspect that we will just refer to them as 2.2 Pumas and the older ones will become 2.4 Pumas. My understanding is the name Puma comes from the Ford Duratorq engine, the first design of which was codenamed Puma. There is now a range of Ford diesel engines based on this original Puma design (now called ZSD) in sizes 2.0, 2.2 and 2.4 litres. So the 2.2 is as much a Puma as the 2.4.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

that is my understanding as well

[muddys1]

when we lived in melbourne, i had my td5 dicovery serviced several times in geelong and didnt have any complaints, but you have answered a Q for me, moving to bendigo in november as you say no dealer anymore...was wondering about that.
by the way think i just bought a block in huntly..:eek:

cheers
wilson

[alittlebitconcerned]

If you consider water ingress a 'bug' then no, they have not ironed all the problems out. It only been 60 years, they'll might get it right one day.

[cal415]

After several discusions with the dealership i ordered my 130 from, he assures me we wont be seeing any 2.2 defenders in Aus till atleast late 2012 when we will see the 13MY, mine is due to be built in November and will be a 12MY model apparently.

[islu51]

I would double check with your dealer as the EU law states then any vehicle built after Sept 1st must be Euro 5...so it will not be possible for LR to build any 2.4 after this date...

[Loubrey]

Something to keep in mind, while all Defenders are "built" in the UK (Loadlane, Sollihull) they are flat packed and assembled all over the world. Everybody's VIN states that they were "built" in the UK, but this is a direct extract from Wikipedia:

Defender models are assembled under licence in several locations worldwide, including Spain (Santana motors), Iran (Pazhan Morattab), Brazil (Karmann) and Turkey (Otokar). The former BL/Rover Group technical centre at Gaydon in Warwickshire is home to the corporate and R&D headquarters."

Speak to salesman and he'll swear that the car was "built" in the UK, but there is no guarantee where it was "assembled". The South African assembly plant at Rosslyn outside Pretoria has been shut for a few years now, but many southern hemisphere County's were assembled there.

If Australia receives 2.4's after the EU cutoff date there's a good chance they are assembled elsewhere.

Land Rover - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:LandRover.svg" class="image" title="Company logo"><img alt="Company logo" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4a/LandRover.svg/130px-LandRover.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@en/thumb/4/4a/LandRover.svg/130px-LandRover.svg.png

Cheers!

[KarlB]

As far as I am aware, all recent Defenders imported into Australia have come from England (I thing you can tell whether it is ex UK, or CKD, etc. from the VIN). I would be very surprised if all Australian delivered MY12 vehicles are not 2.2 litres. Indeed, that the a dealer says something to the contrary is not at all surprising. The Land Rover Australia website actually has a link to the new engine news release: NEW DIESEL ENGINE POWERS THE DEFENDER FOR 2012 | Land Rover Australia (http://www.landrover.com/au/en/lr/about-land-rover/news-overview/new-diesel-defender/). I would not expect this if we were going to wait until 2013 for them to arrive here.

Cheers
KarlB

[muddys1]

thanks KarlB,
very interesting, notice they have also dropped the single cab/chassis
if you have some spare cash buy one of these as a colectors item ???
think mine came from the U.K, you can tell in the workmanship of the conversion to pickup from wagon in the panel work between the tub and cab, nobody else would do a job so rough :angel:
cheers
muddy

[islu51]

Sorry...Jan 1st 2012 is the deadline for Euro 5

[cal415]

Dealer still says with 100% certainty that my November built defender will have the 2.4...

[cal415]

Ok, in typical land rover fashion they are now saying it will have the 2.2... so looks like i will be cancelling my order... not happy at all.

[cal415]

The new EU5 2.2-litre diesel engine replaces the EU4 2.4-litre diesel while matching it for power, torque and fuel consumption. A new, full acoustic engine cover replaces the previous splash cover, reducing radiated engine noise and improving driving refinement. Meeting EU5 regulations, the engine delivers lower levels of the regulated emissions, NOx, CO and HC thanks to an improved combustion system and sophisticated engine management system. In EU5 markets, particulate matter has been reduced to EU5 levels with a diesel particulate filter (DPF). Despite the smaller capacity and reduced emissions, the new engine produces the same power, 122PS@3,500rpm and torque, 360Nm@2,000rpm, as the outgoing 2.4-litre engine. Performance remains similar too, though the top speed has been raised to 90mph compared to 82mph for the previous version. CO2 emissions on the combined cycle are consistent at 266g/km for the 90 and 295g/km for the 110 and 130.



some of the info the dealer emailed me - I wonder what they mean by Performance remains similar too i.e slightly less torque across the entire rev range.....

[isuzurover]

Ok, in typical land rover fashion they are now saying it will have the 2.2... so looks like i will be cancelling my order... not happy at all.

Bugger.

What about this one instead:
2011 LAND ROVER DEFENDER CREW CAB 130 11MY Cars For Sale in NSW - carsales.com.au - carsales.com.au (http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/demo/details.aspx?Cr=3&R=10813815&keywords=&trecs=6&__Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_PriceSort_Decimal |1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&__sid=13207910F226&__Nne=15&__Qpb=1&seot=1&__N=1216%201246%201247%201252%204294964692%2042949 65541%204294928886&silo=1011)

Also one listed in QLD and NSW

[cal415]

I saw that one, but i am really after a HPCU in silver, buying a new car i would like to buy exactly what i want rather then settling on something close, its really ****ing me off. I still cant beleive they took my deposit etc and told me the whole time it was going to be a 2.4 and then turned around and said afterwards that it will actually be a 2.2. Apparently LR Australia hasnt bothered telling there dealers about the change of motor.

At this stage i am to ****ed off to think about it, ive been digging around for info on the 2.2 without much luck, i am really hoping to find something good. I had intended on upgrading the 2.4 for better performance and after reading about whats available and others who have done the upgrades i think i would have been please with that. But now, a smaller displacement motor, untested in a defender, no info on possible upgrades... the only good thing i have found is apparently its what was used in the ford mondeo and has power figures stated up to 155PS

[KarlB]

I would be happy with a 2.2. Performance seems to be essentailly identical to the 2.4. But the vehicle is quieter because of the sound blanket. I would be very surprised if aftermarket upgrade chipping isn't available soon after release but I would be mindful of that until the warranty runs out.

[PAT303]

So you've made up your mind that the motor is no good even though you have never driven one or know anything about it?. Pat

[cal415]

THats just the problem... i have made my mind up that no one knows anything about them yet... do i want to be one of the first? i dont know about that.

[PAT303]

They like the 2.4 are used in transits and these engines are all from the same line down to looking the same so I don't really see what the difference would be.They can't be that bad if they can get a 2 tonne brick to 90 miles and hour. Pat

[newhue]

Cal, unfortunately getting what you want when having anything to do with Land Rover is almost a pipe dream. But you can get what your happy with.

I guess you could use you consumer weight and say you will buy a 2.4, but have lost your 60K if they can only supply a 2.2. Perhaps the powers that be can make something happen. Trouble is the powers that be are happy for someone else to buy it, instead of perhaps making two sales in a month.

option 2, get to like Stonaway Grey. Leave it up the dealer to find and paint a tray if they want the sale.

option 3, have faith in the 2.2. Puma failings haven't really been motor related, so the 2.2 is just the way it is. Think of what the County club felt when the 2.5 replaced the 3.9.

for my 10c, I'd get to like Stonaway Grey. As I say to my customers when I colour in their houses. After we have finished and a week passes, all the fussing and worrying over the right colour becomes irrelevant.

When I bought mine, I liked Stonaway, but the wife didn't want to pay the extra $900 for it. I couldn't bargain it into the price, so white it was, white I am happy.

[PAT303]

Going to the 2.2 has nothing to do with Land Rover as are EGR valves,pedestrian safe bumpers,ABS etc etc.Blame the tree huggers for vehicles becoming the way they are. Pat

[isuzurover]

Going to the 2.2 has nothing to do with Land Rover as are EGR valves,pedestrian safe bumpers,ABS etc etc.Blame the tree huggers for vehicles becoming the way they are. Pat

No, Land Rover is squarely to blame. They could have fitted a 3L Euro 5 diesel like most of the competition.

[PAT303]

The registration tax is higher for the 3.0ltre,thats why;). Pat

[cal415]

It doesnt stop them putting a bigger motor in there other vehicles, its a shame they didnt just put in the TDV6 like everyone wants... or even just as an option along side the 2.2... if only they listened to there customers.

I have calmed down a bit now, i spoke more with the dealer this afternoon, he has found a Stornway grey HCPU 130 at another dealership, it was my 2nd choice of color i guess so not that bad(and my wifes favourite color) he is now just trying to organise to get it for me, hopefully all goes well then this time next week i may be driving a new 130 :)

As for the 2.2, i done a lot of reading on it, it doesnt sound that bad and i was almost sold on it, until i started reading about the DPF on some of the UK forums, sounds like alot more trouble than its worth.

[muddys1]

you,ll be happy with stornaway grey, i know my 110 crewcab pickup looks great, couldn'be happier with the colour
and the important thing is '''happy wife happy life'' :eek:

cheers
muddy

[PAT303]

The DPF's are in lots of vehicles and in modern trucks,they are only a problem if you stop the vehicle before they do thier job. Pat

[Hoges]

re the 2.2L vs the TD6 am wondering if they (LR) regard the latter as "too powerful" for the chassis dynamics of the Defender?... it's just a thought...

[tempestv8]

Does the current 2.4 Puma have a DPF? I don't think so but if the new 2.2 will come with a DPF for the Australian market, I think this will bring another level of complexity and potential owner frustration.

[cal415]

Ok, after a lot of ****ing around it seems i am getting a refund and going to another dealer, they have a 130 in orkney grey - apparently slightly lighter then the stornway, Simon wasnt able to work out a deal with them to get the car so he was happy to put me on to them directly, probobly because i have been a pain in the arse for him as well. Now i am just waiting to see what deal they come back to me with, i have told them they need to do a better deal then what i had or loose my money, lets see what they say... at this stage i am keen to go back to my original plan of building a 130 up with a 4bd1-t, i am pretty sure i can do a decent one for under 60k ;)

[oldyella 76]

Catch up with you when you get here. Bendigo Mazda used to sell landys and they have a good mechanic on landys, but they don't have the latest computor gear for the new ones.

[wrinklearthur]

Does the current 2.4 Puma have a DPF? I don't think so but if the new 2.2 will come with a DPF for the Australian market, I think this will bring another level of complexity and potential owner frustration.
With those DPF gadgets, wont they be curse during the summer! you wont be able to drive through any dry long grass.

They will be setting the country side alight. :firedevil:

Cheers Arthur

[cal415]

Looks like i am getting this, i really like the color -
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/09/795.jpg

[rar110]

Colour is a personal choice. When I rebuilt my 110 I chose to paint it a similar colour. Now I wish I picked white or camo as solid colours are easier to maintain than clear over base especially metallic.

[muddys1]

thats a fine looking truck cal, you'll be happy with it

cheers
muddy

[Grappler]

[/QUOTE]"As for the 2.2, i done a lot of reading on it, it doesnt sound that bad and i was almost sold on it, until i started reading about the DPF on some of the UK forums, sounds like alot more trouble than its worth".[/QUOTE]

The TLA in your post "DPF" prompted me to JFGI.

Is a Diesel paticulate filter a problem if you don't do much city driving?
Do they fail if they dont get up to temperature regularly?

As you know from other posts, Im trying to gather as much info to help decide whether to pull my long standing order for a Puma 130 4 door HCPU, or not

[PAT303]

I think people are to quick to jump on things they know nothing about,the DPF simply has a burning cycle that burns off the nasties and if you stop the vehicle while doing that it causes problems.All that is needed is when the DPF is doing it's thing is to simply let it do it,it only takes a few minutes and thats that. Pat

[cal415]

Been told about the fault cycle regarding the DPF, that scares me, if you dont let it do its thing regulary(i.e short trips) then it will log a fault, which then requires the car to be driven at 100+ KPH for soemthing like 20mins for it to do a cleaning cycle, if you dont do this it will log a fault which will require the dealer to clear....

Pat, i dont think its being quick to jump on things we know nothing about, its more about not wanting to be the guinea pig...

[rar110]

There is a 110 getting around with the same colour where I live. It's a good colour. I've driven a puma 130 - Pretty good.

[PAT303]

Been told about the fault cycle regarding the DPF, that scares me, if you dont let it do its thing regulary(i.e short trips) then it will log a fault, which then requires the car to be driven at 100+ KPH for soemthing like 20mins for it to do a cleaning cycle, if you dont do this it will log a fault which will require the dealer to clear....

Pat, i dont think its being quick to jump on things we know nothing about, its more about not wanting to be the guinea pig...

Mate it's a problem for people who drive two minutes down the road and back for milk and a loaf of bread,you don't have to do any speed at all or for any given length of time,you just need to keep the engine running during it's burning cycle,even if you can't it will continue once you start driving again.Remember,these engines aren't new or untested,they are in Transits now. Pat

[cal415]

They may be in transits but thats a whole different vehicle, its not like you get many people using transit vans as there daily run abouts doing typical short trips to the shops for milk and bread... I do short trips all the time, i use my car for work and we have 4 sites with in a few KM of each other and i am always driving between them, and occasionally i like to have fresh bread and milk on my cerial. Besides that, with each new model or motor change there is always teething issues and i really didnt want to have to deal with that along with the expected land rover quirks.... If your so keen to try a 2.2, sell you 2.4 and get a 2.2 to test yourself, im sure there will be plenty of takers for a special edition puma.

Regarding the the fault sequence with the DPF, i am only quoting what i have read and what a dealer was telling me, they were in the UK during the new baby rangie launch and saw some of the 2.2 testing and apparently they had alot of issues with the DPF.

Some interesting info on the 2.2v2.4
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/09/672.jpg

[alittlebitconcerned]

I think the stornaway grey looks sharp, especially on the pick up against that tan cover. Get some matching seat covers and spend the rest of your life staring at it. I'm jealous.