Filling with LPG - when is it "full" full?

[pfillery]

Some stations I've filled up at seem to put a larger amount of lpg into the tank than others, I normally do the same distance between fills and find some bowsers put up to 5 more litres in before they slow down, others seem to slow down sooner, I usually stop when it slows (since they no longer have locks to hold the handle open your hand gets cramped holding it there while it ticks over slowly), so are you supposed to stop filling when it slows, or does it stop when the tank is full?

[Blknight.aus]

theres an auto shut off valve built into the tank you keep filling till it stops if you want more in there.

the difference is the delivery flow rate and pressure of the pumps used (ignoring temp, how full the supply tank is, the angle of your tank) the better pumps will keep the flow rate up until the shut off valve closes the tank. The hand piece should "Click" off once delivery drops below a certain rate/pressure differential.

[bee utey]

From what I remember your tank should be full at 68 litres from dead empty. (bracketed Falcon tank 85 litres water capacity).
Much more going in means your automatic fill level (AFL) valve is faulty and needs to be replaced. Over filling a tank on a cold morning means by mid afternoon the tank is getting hot enough to leak from the relief valve, possibly resulting in a visit from a fire truck, possibly your truck going up in flames if someone chucks a fag end under it.

[pfillery]

From what I remember your tank should be full at 68 litres from dead empty. (bracketed Falcon tank 85 litres water capacity).
Much more going in means your automatic fill level (AFL) valve is faulty and needs to be replaced. Over filling a tank on a cold morning means by mid afternoon the tank is getting hot enough to leak from the relief valve, possibly resulting in a visit from a fire truck, possibly your truck going up in flames if someone chucks a fag end under it.

I guess what is hard to work out is when it is dead empty. I've never run it right out, it was close once, to the point where the car was starting to get sluggish and lacked power, that was around 50km after the empty light came on, I seem to remember that time I put about 66 litres into it, but most times I fill up now when it has just gone into the red (as my carby needs kitting and I haven't found the time yet so petrol side doesn't run correctly) and the most it has taken is around 60 to 62 litres. It just seemed to me like some pumps seem to fill for longer than others before going to slow mode, but maybe it is variances in my driving or the temperature at the time of filling, seems to be pretty consistent when filling at the same place and time of day and approximately the same number of ks between fills.

All up I'm happy with the savings, on average my running costs have shrunk from $100 per week to $40 a week by changing to the gas. It helps when filling at a woolies petrol where I often get either 8 or 12 cents off, with gas already at 58.9 that makes it very good.

[ytt105]

58.9 in Brisbane, that stinks. The best you can get in Canberra (before the Wollies savings) is 64.9.

Any idea if the tax that is supposed to come onto gas is going to go ahead?

[VladTepes]

You have to check that your LPG tank is full by lighting a match and peering in....







Umm, no, don't.

[Mick_Marsh]

How often do the gas tanks and valves need to be checked and who does it?

[mick88]

A good safe practise when filling with LPG is to always wear a good protective glove. If the valve in the filler fails and you get any blowback your hand is cactus, as it will be instantly suffering severe cold burn.


Cheers, Mick

[bee utey]

A good safe practise when filling with LPG is to always wear a good protective glove. If the valve in the filler fails and you get any blowback your hand is cactus, as it will be instantly suffering severe cold burn.


Cheers, Mick

I've lost count of the times I've had liquid LPG leak on my hands for whatever reason, never yet got frostbite. It takes more than just a second of exposure to get cold burns. Propane boils at -40C, Butane at 0C. Now I wouldn't do it with say, liquid nitrogen though.

Anyway you may get some splash with a leaking filler connection, but as the discharge is sideways you normally get time to move away. If it was as dangerous as you say there would be government rules against untrained plebs filling their cars.

[rovercare]

A good safe practise when filling with LPG is to always wear a good protective glove. If the valve in the filler fails and you get any blowback your hand is cactus, as it will be instantly suffering severe cold burn.


Cheers, Mick


I've lost count of the times I've had liquid LPG leak on my hands for whatever reason, never yet got frostbite. It takes more than just a second of exposure to get cold burns. Propane boils at -40C, Butane at 0C. Now I wouldn't do it with say, liquid nitrogen though.

Anyway you may get some splash with a leaking filler connection, but as the discharge is sideways you normally get time to move away. If it was as dangerous as you say there would be government rules against untrained plebs filling their cars.


I know a fella who had exactly that happen at a servo, scalded crap out of his hand, when he was releasing the filler it blew out on his hand, made a mess, quite some time of work!

[mick88]

I know a fella who had exactly that happen at a servo, scalded crap out of his hand, when he was releasing the filler it blew out on his hand, made a mess, quite some time of work!


Exactly, I know of two cases in my area in the last 18 months.
One lady (whom I treated) got her hand "cold burnt" so badly whilst refueling here vehicle, that she had to have it debrided, then have a total skin graft.
It's nasty stuff, and not taken seriously enough.
Another injury that can occur when refilling portable gas bottles is, small ice particles that are discharged, can cause permanent damage to eyes.

Cheers, Mick.

[Blknight.aus]

How often do the gas tanks and valves need to be checked and who does it?

10 yearly, certified inspection agencies.

its usually cheaper to pay an installer to put a new tank in.

[pfillery]

A good safe practise when filling with LPG is to always wear a good protective glove. If the valve in the filler fails and you get any blowback your hand is cactus, as it will be instantly suffering severe cold burn.


Cheers, Mick

But if it's the fault of the valve on the pump itself you'd be able to take legal action against the servo I'd wager.

The servo I fill up at is only brand new so luckilly the equipment is in good order.

[bee utey]

its usually cheaper to pay an installer to put a new tank in.

Now that Manchester are the only Oz tank manufacturer left, typical new tank prices are around $500. Testing is usually between $100 and $300. Generally tanks fail from rust (wash under the protection plate!) or dents from wreckers yards mishandling.

[bee utey]

Exactly, I know of two cases in my area in the last 18 months.
One lady (whom I treated) got her hand "cold burnt" so badly whilst refueling here vehicle, that she had to have it debrided, then have a total skin graft.
It's nasty stuff, and not taken seriously enough.


I suspect that people are panicking and trying to fiddle with the handle to shut off the flow, instead of leaping back and hitting the safety shut-off button on the pump. The importance of checking for the rubber sealing washer in the filler point on the car is mentioned on every pump.

This is a good argument to end self service for all fuelling. A bit of training, some hazmat suits and you have employment opportunities. Would also reduce drive-offs.

[haydent]

having been frustrated by the removal of clips for the pump handles on nearly all stations i made this little thing up with two opposing parts of velcro joined at one end. it works great and gives me the time to wash my window and take a rest while waiting.

it lives on the low/high level when not in use.

:cool:

[Freightdog]

I found out back in my LPG days that the slower pumps were able to put more fuel in the tank than fast pumps, before the shut-off valve activated.

I also discovered that if you only squeeze the pump handle in slightly, allowing a very slow flow rate (at about the point you think it would normally cut off) that the cut-off valve did not activate at all.

Using this method I was able to get about 7 more litres in the tank which would get me the extra few km's I needed to reach the next cheap LPG outlet.

[haydent]

also i forgot to add that tank temperature can make a significant difference to the point where if its a hot enough day ive not even been able to fill it at all from about 1/4 full due to lack of pump pressure.

[big guy]

I suspect that people are panicking and trying to fiddle with the handle to shut off the flow, instead of leaping back and hitting the safety shut-off button on the pump. The importance of checking for the rubber sealing washer in the filler point on the car is mentioned on every pump.

This is a good argument to end self service for all fuelling. A bit of training, some hazmat suits and you have employment opportunities. Would also reduce drive-offs.

Stops us un-trained plebs from doing it our-selfes.:p

[DeeJay]

also i forgot to add that tank temperature can make a significant difference to the point where if its a hot enough day ive not even been able to fill it at all from about 1/4 full due to lack of pump pressure.


Time for a quick lesson:)
Lets say your tank cuts off at 68 litres ( 80% of it's total capacity). For every 5 deg increase in gas temperature, it will expand 1% in volume, so, say you fill up with LPG fresh from the refinery ( usually colder) and it is 10 deg celcius. You don't drive anywhere & the temperature is stinking hot for a few days & the gas temp hits 40deg. It has expanded 6%, so your tank now has 72 litres:eek:
But wait, if it's the reverse, you got ripped off:(.
Not really, the bowser has a temperature probe which converts the volume back to 15 deg centigrade. I used to drive a LPG tanker and always laughed at the cab drivers who would complain that thier tank just took 75 litres & it can "only" take 72. Of course they never complained when it was empty & took 69 litres, in reality it was taking 72 litres every time ( give or take as the swirling can put off the AFL mechanism a bit) and the bowser was charging for the energy content rather than the volume. The hotter the gas, the less energy content, so you get charged for less than it actually is- volume wise.
Hope that makes sense.
Bowsers dont pressurise the gas, just transfer it. It's common in Vic for someone to drive to Melb from sunny North, come across the Divide to 15 deg lower temp, then wonder why thier tank is slow to fill, it's because the hotter gas from where they filled has a greater back pressure than that at the Melb servo. Worse again if they filled with Propane & then try to fill with Autograde which can be up to 50% butane- a much lower pressure gas.
I heard the other day that some refineries are cracking Ethane to blend in. I don't know what pressure that is.

[DeeJay]

having been frustrated by the removal of clips for the pump handles on nearly all stations i made this little thing up with two opposing parts of velcro joined at one end. it works great and gives me the time to wash my window and take a rest while waiting.

it lives on the low/high level when not in use.

:cool:

Clips are optional, the servo's have ( mostly) got rid of them due to accidents. The regs are that you are to stay close & monitor the filling procedure. If something goes wrong, get rid of that velcro quick time as the Petroluem companies have the best legal people when it comes to sueing..

Quote:
Originally Posted by mick88 https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/lpg/134515-filling-lpg-when-full-full-post1535087.html#post1535087)
A good safe practise when filling with LPG is to always wear a good protective glove. If the valve in the filler fails and you get any blowback your hand is cactus, as it will be instantly suffering severe cold burn.


Cheers, Mick


Originally quoted by Pfillory
"But if it's the fault of the valve on the pump itself you'd be able to take legal action against the servo I'd wager.

The servo I fill up at is only brand new so luckilly the equipment is in good order."

All service stations that sell LPG have a supply of gloves under the counter & legally have to provide them if asked. If you burn your hand, it's your fault because you didn't ask.!!

[wozzlegummich]

Originally quoted by Pfillory
All service stations that sell LPG have a supply of gloves under the counter & legally have to provide them if asked. If you burn your hand, it's your fault because you didn't ask.!!

Australia has now surpassed the good old USA as the most litigious society on Earth.

Seems we now live in the world of ambulance-chasers. Sad.