Intermittent Starting Problem

[PeterAllen]

Hi All,
My 96 occassionally does not want to start. The starter turns and then wont fire up.
This happens at random times and there is no general pattern. Usually after a few minutes of not starting it will then fire up without an issue. The next ten or twenty starts will not be an issue (cold or hot) and then again it would happen. I have tried moving the gear shift and there does not appear to be any pattern to it other than random selection and usually when you are rushing to get somewhere. Any thoughts on what is happening? It must be electrical.

[Blknight.aus]

which engine?

[wanglemoose]

mine does a similar thing occasionally where you turn the key and its all dead. locking and unlocking usually fixes it for me.

[Scouse]

As it's cranking fine, it's not going to be a gear lever issue so it's going to be either spark or fuel.

If it's easy to replicate, remove a plug lead & see if you can hold it (with insulated pliers) about 5mm away from a good earth point. Have someone crank over the engine & see if a good spark is present.

It does sound like a fuel pressure issue though so try turning the ignition on/off a few times before cranking. The pump will operate enough to get some line pressure happening & it should start up easier.

[PeterAllen]

The engine is 4.6 litre. I have it started again after recharging the battery and I am begining to look towards the fuel pump as being a suspect.
Have noted that it tends to do it when I am low on fuel.
Is the fuel pump in the tank of these, like the classics or located elsewhere?
after starting I filled her up and haven't had the issue reoccur so far.

[bee utey]

The engine is 4.6 litre. I have it started again after recharging the battery and I am begining to look towards the fuel pump as being a suspect.
Have noted that it tends to do it when I am low on fuel.
Is the fuel pump in the tank of these, like the classics or located elsewhere?
after starting I filled her up and haven't had the issue reoccur so far.
The pump is in the tank. Some models of P38 have a floor hatch over the pump, its under the back seat somewhere under the carpet. I remember doing one once, had to unscrew the seat lower half I believe. You should always listen for the pump noise when it fails to start. The pump should be audible for about 1 second after cranking.

[PeterAllen]

Thanks Bee utey,
I have had a bit of previous experience with replacing the Classic's fuel pump think 4 in 20 years and will carry a piece of 4 x 2 as well for good measure to smack the tank with. Will see when it decides to much up again.

[rangerdanger]

I suffered a similar problem a year or two ago, intermittant problem always happening at the most inconvenient times.
It was traced to a weak fuel pump. The injector supply line pressure was reading just on minimum spec pressure and a new pump cured it.

Best of luck.
Troy N

[PeterAllen]

Thanks for the advice, I'll let you know the outcome when it decides to repeat the fault but for now the engine is starting and running well, I'll keep a look out for fuel pumps on the net.

[justinc]

Don't discount the possibility of the crank angle sensor being faulty. For example with the Thor engine (Bosch Motronic version 1999 on and D2) If you have no fuel pressure, no injector pulse AND no spark it could well be this as the crank signal tells the fuel pump to start and the injectors to pulse, and obviously the spark to spark.
Do not do this with a hot engine, but on the GEMS motor there is a schrader valve on the fuel rail drivers side. After a cranking acticvity there should be 30 to 35 Psi in the fuel rail if the pump is doing its thing. Just depress the valve and see if ANY pressure is evident.

I think from memory the fuel pump will still buzz when cranked even if the crank sensor is faulty with the GEMS engnes.

JC

[PeterAllen]

Problem with starting happened again. Its a Gem engine so tested the valve as suggested resulting in a good spurt of fuel so guess the fuel pump is not the issue. Where is this crank angle sensor?
Car started after a few minutes but would like to get to the bottom of the issue.

[PeterH]

Might be worth checking your battery, you mentioned you had to recharge it.
The P38 requires a solid well functioning battery, from personal experience a battery that is starting to go can cause all sorts of weird problems and error messages.
The injection system does require good voltage to operate properly.
Worth a check to discount at least.
Hope this helps.

[PeterAllen]

Thanks Pete,
The car has been doing the non start thing for sometime now and the battery was only a function of "someone"constantly cranking the starter when trying to get it going rather than the usual short burts more recently.
Its just hard to understand why these are so intermittent.
As stated previously is usually starts up no problem and then without any reason decides to play tricks.

[Kimray]

Did you resolve this problem yet? My 95 V8 has been doing this intermittently for the near two years I've owned it. At times I've thought the problem fixed after by passing the immobiliser, high energy bosch ignition system and various other work done only to have the problem return either straight away or maybe a month later. Hot or cold makes no difference.

[poleonpom]

Fuel pump. If your car has done 160k + kms, the pump is on the way out. One day it will work, the next it wont. It may work, but not deliver the pressure. See my post on the subject of pump replacement.

[TELF RRC]

mine does a similar thing occasionally where you turn the key and its all dead. locking and unlocking usually fixes it for me.

This applies to my 1989 RRC but thought I'd chip in anyway. Also found locking and unlocking sometimes worked.

I found an intermittent fault where the starter would crank but just didn't seem to have the oomph to turn her over. Then all power would be lost i.e. bulb under the bonnet wouldn't even come on. After a bit or rolling around underneath in the Bunnings carpark I found that wiggling the positive cable on the firewall power stud brought power back. Tested with a multimeter at home and there was a 3V drop from engine bay to cabin. Cleaned all terminals (stud and starter) and applied Vaseline and all is now well. Added bonus is that rear wash/wipe now works again!

[zuk]

There was a fuel pump on ebay last night think about $295 + freight (new) dont know if this is well priced, there is also some one wrecking a 2000 model.

[Hoges]

There was a fuel pump on ebay last night think about $295 + freight (new) dont know if this is well priced, there is also some one wrecking a 2000 model.

Probably in the region if it's genuine LR. I dug deep and bought a brand new LR genuine one delivered from the UK for just over $250 about 18 months ago... It's still in the emergency-spares-for-long-trip-box. Then I discovered that the OEM VN Commodore pump is almost an exact match :mad:.. a search on the forum here will confirm...

[poleonpom]

Probably in the region if it's genuine LR. I dug deep and bought a brand new LR genuine one delivered from the UK for just over $250 about 18 months ago... It's still in the emergency-spares-for-long-trip-box. Then I discovered that the OEM VN Commodore pump is almost an exact match :mad:.. a search on the forum here will confirm...

It is, I've swapped the LR fuel pump for a Holden version, little bit od modification. Engine running well. There's a write up with pics I took on this forum

[PeterAllen]

Did you resolve this problem yet? My 95 V8 has been doing this intermittently for the near two years I've owned it. At times I've thought the problem fixed after by passing the immobiliser, high energy bosch ignition system and various other work done only to have the problem return either straight away or maybe a month later. Hot or cold makes no difference.

Hi Kimray,
To answer your question I have not fixed this intermittant issue as yet.
It has not happened again for some weeks now and I am leaning towards something to do with the ignition key and its switch. Seemed to work after taking the key out and putting the key back in with a bit more force. It may just be a loose connection in the ignition switch but I am yet to explore further until she plays up a bit more.

[DT-P38]

That last post could hold an answer... My mrs sometimes has a " no kick " starting prob with the "pretty pig". Then I jump in and bang, no prob's.

Perhaps it's just wanting a Heavy Hand taken to it?