Suzie dies on the Stuart Hwy

[alexturner]

Today my 93 110 Suzie fell ill 32.8km out of Port Augusta on her way totheSimpson. Driving along and all of a sudden smoke bad smells and no drive. Ipulled over and by convoy suspected by transfer case. After Joining thenrma and towing her back totown I cracked open the transfer case and all seems well. I'm guessing clutch now. Any opinions on what to check for and anyone in town who'd let me pitch a tent on their lawn?

Thanks guys
Alex

[twodoors]

Oops... Have u more info... Is engine running okay.... Does it rev freely... Guessing a manual box.... Does the stick select gears freely....can u start it in gear and move off... Have u jacked up the corners and turned wheels to see what moves up the drive chain etc... James

[digger]

port augusta I dont know but there are members in whyalla and over in wilmington and Im sure a few others about there I don't know of.

Good luck with the car, hopefully next try it'll get you up past RANGES VIEW and onto the simpson without problems. Its beautiful about the north at the moment after the rains of recent times...

[alexturner]

Hey guys,

I've opened the transfer case and everything looks well, no contaminants in the oil and no loose teeth. Car wheels freely and the transfer case is rotating fine. Gear box is fine, gears change fine and the motor seems well. I'm fairly sure its the clutch, who in Adelaide would have one?

[Psimpson7]

Sounds like it may be the Gearbox main shaft / transfer case input gear.

Do you have any drive at all?

[strangy]

TRS in Adelaide will have the gear you need whatever it is and should be able to get anything to you same day if you call early enough.

As already mentioned Tombie is in Whyalla. He may have some parts.

cheers

[twodoors]

If the vehicle was underway and u lost drive doesnt sound like clutch as that only comes into play between gears.... Start her up in 1st with hand brake off... And foot off clutch..If u move and cant change gear then it looks clutch issue.... But if no movement then it is more likely the gearbox output shaft...
James

[101RRS]

But if no movement then it is more likely the gearbox output shaft...
James

I believe that can be checked by taking the round plate off the back of the tfr case and pulling some of the gears out and inspecting the spud shaft and gearbox output shaft splines.

Garry

[alexturner]

Hey guys,

I've just had the gearbox rebuilt about 10,000km ago so hopefully it's not a gearbox issue. I'm starting to stress as my vehicle is part of the support crew for a charity run across the Simpson and it looks like I wont make it :(

If I start the car in gear the motor will start, car wont move. When I depress the clutch I can hear a slight rattle from the gearbox/transfer case area. I pulled the round cover and the inspection plate off the transfer case today and the transfer looks fine - oil came out clean.

I'm seriously hoping I don't have a gearbox problem at this stage :/

If it makes a difference when I lost drive, there was no bang - just a whining noise and loss of drive - followed by smoke and a burning clutch smell. I'll be camping outside the ARB here tonight. I'm quite upset.

:(

[SimonM]

Alex

That's horrible timing mate. Hope you get it sorted ASAP and you get to the Simpson.

[Psimpson7]

Hi Alex,

If you smelt burnt clutch when it happened you are probably on the right lines.

Does the clutch pedal feel ok when you press it?

Possibly a total clutch failure.

Was this changed when the box was rebuilt?

if you do want to check the input gear, as Garry has suggested, if you remove the round cover on the back of the transfer you can withdraw the input gear to have a look. Thats a fairly quick and easy job.

good luck
Pete

[justinc]

Yes I would suspect a clutch failure, like Pete said. The centre may have 'torn' out the rivets and basicaly the smell and noise is the bits of damper spring and pieces of friction material flying around in there:(.

Hope all goes OK tomorrow,TRS will have a decent quality clutch kit, ask for a Valeo Defender version, and make sure the spigot bush AND fork get replaced and correctly lubed. IF they (ARB) sound a bit hesitant about doing the job etc, get them to call me and I can give them a bit of advice etc. Sounds a bit silly but there are LOTS of workshops around that have never worked on Defenders...:(

Number is 0408 995 635, I am accompanying my youngest to day surgery tomorrow, but should be out in the afternoon.

JC

[alexturner]

Hey guys, thanks so much for the advice and support. I just got back to the car took the cover off the back of the transfer case and pulled the drive gear out. I started the engine and kept and eye on the spline and noticed that it will only drive in 4th gear and when I depress the clutch it'll let go so bad news i'm afraid - I think i've lost the gear box. Probably won't be able to drive it back to Sydney in L4.

Pity is that i've just had my box rebuilt so this is a real shame.

Alex

[justinc]

Hey guys, thanks so much for the advice and support. I just got back to the car took the cover off the back of the transfer case and pulled the drive gear out. I started the engine and kept and eye on the spline and noticed that it will only drive in 4th gear and when I depress the clutch it'll let go so bad news i'm afraid - I think i've lost the gear box. Probably won't be able to drive it back to Sydney in L4.

Pity is that i've just had my box rebuilt so this is a real shame.

Alex

Not necessarily Alex, maybe still get the box out first and check the clutch. It's got to come out in any case. There will be a fair bit of friction from the damaged clutch centre etc and this can cause the output shaft to rotate with little or no load, but the lack of any drive movement in any other gear can point to layshaft failure though:(

The only consolation is it didn't happen halfway across the rig rd or going up big red:o


JC

[dlatn]

This is quite common when you put a SUZUKI engine in a landrover. Much better off with an ISUZU engine. ;)
Best of luck!

[alexturner]

Hey Guys,

I've spoken to some mechanics and such and they reckon I've broken the cluster (not sure what the cluster is). Never the less I'm being told $3000~ for a rebuild so now I'm going to have to consider sourcing a second hand box or a reco.

What would you go with SH or reco? Very upset at this point :(

[Blknight.aus]

surely that would be a warranty issue on the box if its only 10K old.

[Nera Donna]

Alex,
Sorry to hear of your troubles. But as Justinc pointed out, better now than half way up Big Red. I know it’s no consolation and your disappointment must be devastating. Hang tough young man, you’ll get it.
IMO If you can afford it, a recon with an Australia wide warranty. (if it really is the cog swapper)
Cheers
Craig

[djam1]

Mate I understand how badly this sucks.
TRS will have a second hand box but you will definitely pay a premium beyond that I have nothing to say.

If you are in Port Augusta as you say I would try

Jones Peter 4WD & Clocks 10 Proper Bay Road
Port Lincoln 5606
Tel. (08) 8682 3952
Peter has been dealing with Land Rovers for so long its not funny and he has some wrecks he knows his product and may be able to help.
I would be wary of workshops who don't know anything about Land Rovers giving you expert advice.

[isuzutoo-eh]

Mate thats a barstard of a thing to have happened.
I suppose you called the mob that recoed your box not so long ago? What did they have to say?

[alexturner]

Hey guys,

Well the mech that reconditioned my gearbox (who's name I won't mention just yet) has refused warranty as the part that has failed was a supplied part.

Fair enough. Though a friend of mine had supplied the mechanic with an old V8 gearbox and a couple of transfer cases just so he could keep them at stock and cut the price down for me a little bit (this saved me about $300). Now I'm being told that the mechanic has used (without my knowledge at the time) the layshaft from the V8 box in my LT77S and this is what has failed.

So where do I stand here, am I at fault for supplying parts even though the parts aren't a proper fit in the LT77 or is the mechanic at fault for 1) not following instructions and negligence?

Your opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Alex

[series3]

The gearbox from a 110 County would be an LT95, different to an LT77 in a 200tdi defender. It sounds pretty crappy and I would think that the mechanic would have to inform you of such things. But I have no knowledge on the legal side of things.

Unlucky hey..

Sam

[isuzutoo-eh]

Sam, V8s and LT77s were used together in early D1s and some RRCs...

[series3]

Cheers, I was just thinking box-shaped landy's. Whoops.

Sam

[LowRanger]

Hey guys,

Well the mech that reconditioned my gearbox (who's name I won't mention just yet) has refused warranty as the part that has failed was a supplied part.

Fair enough. Though a friend of mine had supplied the mechanic with an old V8 gearbox and a couple of transfer cases just so he could keep them at stock and cut the price down for me a little bit (this saved me about $300). Now I'm being told that the mechanic has used (without my knowledge at the time) the layshaft from the V8 box in my LT77S and this is what has failed.

So where do I stand here, am I at fault for supplying parts even though the parts aren't a proper fit in the LT77 or is the mechanic at fault for 1) not following instructions and negligence?

Your opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Alex

Alex
You would need to check your invoice closely.
If you were charged for a complete gearbox overhaul and no mention of fitting second hand parts,then you will have comeback on the repairer.
If there was mention of gearbox rebuild using supplied second hand parts,with the parts used listed,then you probably don't have much comeback.
If you feel you have a comeback,then you need to contact the MVRIA in NSW,which is the automotive arm of Dept fair trading in NSW and lodge a complaint.Unfortunately they will have to contact the repairer and then there would normally be mediation,before a decision was made.
This is not going to get your gearbox repaired in South Aust. though.But you would need to obviously keep receipts etc for when you got back.
You might like to mention to the original repairer that you are going to contact the MVRIA though,and that you will be claiming the cost of the repair and any further out of pocket expenses.
Unfortunately there is only one person in NSW I would trust to build a LandRover gearbox or transfer properly.And he doesn't work in a fancy workshop.

Wayne

[scott oz]

My 2c,

If you provided the part either new or second hand and the mechanic was either instructed to use these then you have problems.

Unless the part that failed was either observably faulty and a reasonable mechanic should have detected this and told you in which case the Mechanic has some problems.

If the part that you supplied failed and was faulty but not observable on installation then you have problems.

If the part you provided failed but on fitting “seemed”/was working properly but turns out to be the wrong part or faulty you have problems.

If the part was incorrectly fitted regardless of who provided it the mechanic has problems.

Basically mechanics in NSW make a profit on parts they supply, it’s part of their cost structure. If you provide parts to save money then you take the risk of part failure and fixing. Fair enough.

Having run a case through the NSW system with my brother (we won) it is can be expensive and you have to have qualified experts (qualified mechanic/engineer) supporting you. Also very time consuming, nothing moves fast.

Also costs of your experts are not recoverable. Nor do I think other costs you nay incur being interstate. Far better to reach an “agreement”.

Alternatively if you can get the mechanic to notify his insurer and deal directly with them, this could be the least expensive for you, quicker and you get to speak to the insurer.

All the best.

[LowRanger]

Ok ,so how have things turned out Alex?

Wayne

[isuzutoo-eh]

An update from Alex:

He's still at Port Augusta. His gearbox arrived in Sydney during last week, and is supposed to be repaired under warranty as it was recoed 4 months prior to its demise. The mech was concerned that there was only 500ml of oil in the box when he received it.

Alex is heading for Adelaide tomorrow, will be there for a few days, if anyone wants to catch up for a beer with him PM me and i'll send you his contact number.

[alexturner]

Hey guys,

My trip
Finally back online after a comedy of errors. Firstly my gearbox fails forcing me to leave Susie in Port Augusta and continue travelling in the convoy north towards the Simpson Desert. I was the communications guy for a marathon event across the Simpson Desert.

The event organisers were incredibly disorganised, and began worrying about water/fuel just before we entered the National Park. Already one car down, and every vehicle in the convoy was grossly overloaded, the Project Manager fired a member of the support crew for trying to overpower him (merely because he voiced his concerns for fuel and water). Two vehicles down - stuck in Mt Dare we we're going to make it across. The owner of the Mt Dare hotel (Jeff) offered the Project Manager a fuel and water drop because he shared similar concerns to that of the support crew. The drop went ahead.

After entering the national park, the support crew started to setup and pack up camp in under an hour, everything became habitual - fuel and water were no longer concerns and the race was going ahead.

On the day of the $2500 fuel/water/fuel drop from Mt Dare, about 10km east of the intersection with the Colsons Track we receive a call on the Satellite phone from the police advising us to leave the park as bush fires were heading across the french line. We abandoned camp and left camp in a mad panic.

After arriving back at Mt Dare we were informed that the race had been cancelled and every member of the support crew and the runners turned against event managers. On top of all the animosity between the crew and the management, one of the support crew receives a call at Mt Dare informing him that his mother passed away (at 65) 3 days ago.

The following day all vehicles left for Alice Springs leaving the event managers in Mt Dare to recover the 750Kg~ of equipment abandoned in the park.

All in all quite an interesting trip- though I didn't make it across the Simpson :(

Now about my car
My gearbox has been removed and is due to arrive in Sydney tomorrow. After a long battle with mechanic that reconditioned the gearbox 4 months ago, and a threat to take the matter further, the gearbox mechanic has promised to rebuild the gearbox using brand new components under warranty. So I should receive the gearbox in Port Augusta on Friday/Monday, refit it and be on my way.

When I first bought the car the gearbox was run without oil and had failed. The seller offered to give me 2 old transfer cases and a gearbox for a V8 that the gearbox mech (a mate of his) could use as shelf stock if he dropped the price a few hundred dollars. The mechanic agreed and all was well. However I believe there was a miscommunication in the whole process and the gearbox mechanic has extracted the 20year old layshaft from the V8 gearbox and had used it in the reco box. Consequently I believe it failed (not sure if it's a different part or if it was just fatigue).

The gearbox is yet to be opened, though the mechanic in Port Augusta raised concerns that only 500ml of oil was drained from the box when he pulled it from Susie. After 4 months of city driving and one big trip (Syd to P.A) with no obvious/noticeable leaks where could 2l of oil disappear to?

Anyways guys, thanks so much for the SMS's and PM's you're support has been awesome.

[SimonM]

Geez Alex what an adventure. It would be a shame if you don't get to cross the Simpson this time. Still you have a good story to tell.

[Nera Donna]

Wow, what an adventure. Pity things turned out the way they did, but I guess you have gained some valuable lessons. I know I have learnt some things from your experience. From what you have written in regards to the crossing, it might have been for the best anyway?
Good luck with getting Suzie back on the road.
Cheers
Craig

[alexturner]

Hey Guys,

I've got a headsup on Susie and it sounds a little concerning. The gearbox mechanic opened the box in Sydney today and called to let me know that the box has been run without oil and the workings are... buggered.

The mechanic also said that there were no noticeable oil leaks and that all the gaskets were in decent condition. The box was rebuilt by him 4 months ago and since then it hasn't been touched at all. Where could all the oil have gone?

Alex

[bee utey]

Where could all the oil have gone?


Sadly it may remain unknown but it highlights why you should check all driveline oils for colour and level, before any major trip, regardless.

[isuzurover]

Sadly it may remain unknown but it highlights why you should check all driveline oils for colour and level, before any major trip, regardless.

What bee utey said.

It is possible the oil was pumped into the t-case. Did the t-case leak?

Btw - your box should be an LT85, not an LT77 - assuming yours is a factory isuzu.

If you can spare the $$$, I would fit an isuzu box using Thegrubb's conversion kit.

[alexturner]

What bee utey said.

It is possible the oil was pumped into the t-case. Did the t-case leak?

Btw - your box should be an LT85, not an LT77 - assuming yours is a factory isuzu.

If you can spare the $$$, I would fit an isuzu box using Thegrubb's conversion kit.

But it's a 200Tdi :P

[isuzurover]

But it's a 200Tdi :P

Ah - OK. I thought suzie was a reference to the engine, not the name(?) of the car.

In that case I have a stumpy bellhousing in my shed which would allow you to fit an R380 if you can source one.

Ben.

[alexturner]

Ah - OK. I thought suzie was a reference to the engine, not the name(?) of the car.

In that case I have a stumpy bellhousing in my shed which would allow you to fit an R380 if you can source one.

Ben.

Haha, yes my 110 just looked like a Suzie so there we have it :P

That'd be awesome mate, i hear that the output shaft from the motor is too long for the r380 or something along those lines... is the R380 a better box?

Alex

[isuzurover]

Haha, yes my 110 just looked like a Suzie so there we have it :P

That'd be awesome mate, i hear that the output shaft from the motor is too long for the r380 or something along those lines... is the R380 a better box?

Alex

Ashcroft Transmissions - Short Bellhousing R380 (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=157)

Have a read of the above.

The (late model) R380 is a much stronger box than the LT77.

I bought all the bits to convert an R380 to a stumpy from ashcroft. I am happy to part with it for what I paid if it will get you out of a jam. You will of course need to find an R380.

[alexturner]

Hey guys,
Well it turns out the box has been run without oil (for the second time). The mechanic has agreed to rebuild the box and re-condition for the cost of parts ($1500). He's also paying for shipping to Port Augusta and it's on its way. I'll be keeping a good eye on this one now :/

Alex

[Bearman]

Did he work out where the gearbox oil went?

[eksjay]

If there is one place I wouldn't mind being marooned, it is Pt Augusta....

I could live there...

Sorry to hear of your troubles ... but, enjoy the stay....

[alexturner]

Did he work out where the gearbox oil went?

Nope no idea. I'm going to keep a good eye on oil levels and if it drops again - I'll break the box and engine apart for a good look.