Countys for Beginners

[VladTepes]

OK so I don't know much about them.

I gather they were all coil sprung, all 110 wheelbase (in Australia anyway)and available with either the 4BD1 diesel or 3.5l rover v8. Not sure on the gearbox but I gather they were 4 speed but possibly a 5 speef was available later?

So how am I going?

What is the essential differebce *aside from engine) between a Country and Defender 110?

[abaddonxi]

4 speed LT95 early, 5 speed LT85 late. The four speed is bigger, better, stronger but a bit urgent at highway speeds. The five speed is weaker but will struggle comfortably on the highway.

Lift up handle doors early, push button handles later. Drum brakes on rear, but that continued into 200tdi's.

Better CV's, 10 spline axles.

They're older.

Air con is equally poor.

[VladTepes]

Easier just to bolt the engine and geabox into a Tdi era defender then

[abaddonxi]

That's heresy. You'll be strung up for that sort of thinking.

But sure.

[jskerm]

Anyone feel free to correct me but I think County's ran from about 83/84 to 88/89. The series 111 went to a stage 1 v8 (series 111 body and suspension with county driveline), and then to the '110' fitted with range rover derived coilsprung fulltime 4x4 chassis.
'County' was just the trim level designation but all the station wagons bought into au were countys (i think you can still get a defender county in the uk). They went to a 5 speed in 85, before that 4 speed. I think there was a 120" cab chassis variant but not sure if this was a land rover or jaguar/land rover Australia thing. The isuzu motors were put in by Jra, other than that just the 3.5 su carby engine. The only differences i know of between 110's (countys) and Defenders is the load leveller in the county, thicker body panels in the county, interior differences, namely door cards, old style lever exterior door handles on the county and oil fed wheel bearings on the county. Obviously there are a few more differences than that but thats the bulk of it. Again, feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.

[Nero]

OK so I don't know much about them.

I gather they were all coil sprung, all 110 wheelbase (in Australia anyway)

Except for the utes/traybacks which are actually 120 but labeled as 110. :eek:

[dobbo]

just a few I can think of off the top of my head

carpeted interior (just like the SVX)

larger universal joints than the defender

better CV's than a Defender

galvanized strippings on the body

donaldson air filter on diesel

massive amount of engine braking on diesel (hardly use the brakes)

full dash on ac model

10 seater option

[slug_burner]

Galvanised cappings, defenders are colour coded.

The dash is also different and the steering wheel on the county is more angular whereas the defender is a little more padded and rounded. We are getting into the minutia now:o

[abaddonxi]

No gal capping on later models.

Ribbed roof.

[ozscott]

Fast idle control lever (least on v8 - don't know bout diesel) inside cabin. Removable roof (I don't mean from a roll over)

Cheers

[JDNSW]

"County" is a trim level term used by Leyland/Landrover for Rangerover, Series 3, 90/110, and, I think, Defender. However, since the 110 station wagons sold in Australia pre-Defender were all County trim, and labelled prominently as such, the term is often misused to describe all pre-Defender coil sprung Landrovers in Australia.

The models of these that were sold here were only supplied with the choice of the Isuzu 4BD1 and V8 in the 4x4 and the 4BD1T only in the 6x6. All were assembled in Australia with varying amounts of Australian input.

All were described as "110" but included a 120" cab/chassis and a 6x6 cab/chassis. 90 and 127 were not sold in Australia in this period. First introduced in 1984, and discontinued in 1989 with the change to Defender, which was not sold in Australia for about another 18 months. Body styles of the 110 were cab/chassis, station wagon, utility, and hardtop, and a limited production of dual cab V8s in 1987 for the bicentennial authority. The most common was probably the wagon or the cab/chassis. Probably most wagons had the rather unsuccessful factory air, which did away with the vents.

There is, however, no distinct break between the Defender and its predecessors, with progressive changes to both - the Defender was not a new model, it simply was a new name, coincident with the introduction of the Tdi200 engine that was introduced for the Discovery. With the Defender, the only engine sold in Australia has been the diesel. As examples, the push button doors came in about 1987. These required the seats to be moved inboard and a smaller steering wheel, and the body capping became painted rather than galvanised at this time. Similarly, the LT95 box was replaced in the V8 in 1985 and the 4BD1 in 1986. All 6x6s had the LT95. And only the first couple of years of Defender production had drum rear brakes. Side facing rear seats were fitted to most 110 wagons, but only early Defenders, although always optional, as was the centre front seat.

John

[OLR-067]

A couple of small things I have noticed include:


Factory green glass tint. Not sure if this for all 110 run or if was included in Defender range.
The headliner material is different to later defenders.
Stage 1 type B pillar material covers on interior.

Cheers,
Paul

[Bush65]

As JD said 'County' refers to the trim. Only the wagons - not the cab chassis or tray tops - were supplied with county trim.

[Loubrey]

As JDNSW said, County is a trim level. In the UK all Defenders are still available in XS which is "full house" with heated leather seats, heated windscreens and a host of pretty things for those who stay on the black stuff most of the time. The next level down is the County, which still retains carpets, but is your more functional set-up and significantly cheaper than an XS. From there you go down in luxury until you reach plastic seats, mats and all the rest.

Wikipedia has a very accurate timeline for the development of the first 90/110’s and how the vehicle developed. Defender was a name given as a marketing exercise and many countries’s have since had specific editions of the car, but they all remain Defenders.

Australia is the only country with Isuzu influence on the car, while South Africa had the 2.8 V6 petrol out of the BMW 325. Therefore XS, County, Extreme, Tomb Raider, Signature and all the other names associated with Defenders are for marketing purposes only and has little or no effect on the mechanical development of the vehicle. Obviously Puma relates directly to the engine, but it’s a name used as a nickname by users like us alone. The vehicle’s actual name is Defender Tdci or Td4 depending on where you are same as previous ones where Td5’s, 300Tdi’s etc. Land Rover does not use “Puma” as a marketing description for the vehicle at all.

Early 80’s 90/110 had V8 petrol engines, 2.5 normally aspirated diesels (turbo strapped to same engine a year or two later) and a few specific ones for various countries like the Leyland straight six petrol in South Africa and Australia’s specific development the other guys have been talking about.

[p38arover]

Were the rear seats (2nd row, not loadspace) mounted higher in Defenders? I once had this mentioned by a Defender owner.

[VladTepes]

A 127 diesel twin cab would be my ideal landy !

[JDNSW]

Were the rear seats (2nd row, not loadspace) mounted higher in Defenders? I once had this mentioned by a Defender owner.

I don't think so - but I do think they had thicker and deeper cushions, and I suspect may have been mounted further back by an inch or two to allow for this.

John

[Quarks]

Quite a few things changed during production anyway.

By '89 the gal cappings were colour coded; and the roof ribs had gone too.
The second row seats in the County were of later style continued in the Defender: however I do suspect they may have been lower or shorter in length or something as there seemed to be more legroom in the County than in the Defender.

:)

[isuzurover]

Were the rear seats (2nd row, not loadspace) mounted higher in Defenders? I once had this mentioned by a Defender owner.

Yes - but the later 110 (countys) got that too.

"County" models were sold until 1991 AFAIK. As mentioned there were lots of changes along the way. A friend has a '91 county which has push button doors, painted (non-galvanised) cappings, the "defender position" seat which is also split-folding, etc etc...

My 1987 county has painted and galvanised cappings.

These vehicles also have thicker/stronger trailing arms.

[isuzutoo-eh]

Most of a County's mechanical bits are stronger/heavier duty, except the three bolt steering box.
The Counties that I have seen have all had a bench rear seat rather than split fold like Deffer 110s. They also had the rear side facing seats, albeit most removed by now. In that glorious brown colour that Defenders owners are glad to miss out on.

[isuzurover]

Most of a County's mechanical bits are stronger/heavier duty, except the three bolt steering box.
The Counties that I have seen have all had a bench rear seat rather than split fold like Deffer 110s. They also had the rear side facing seats, albeit most removed by now. In that glorious brown colour that Defenders owners are glad to miss out on.

Tha change to 4-bolt box happened about the same time as the 5-speed change.

The 1991 110 couinty I mentioned above would be identical to a 200Tdi defender (AU) wagon if you changed:

Side decals
Engine, box and t-case ratio
Dash/AC/vents
Trailing arms
Swapped all carpet and cloth for vinyl.

[copba]

County's (aka 110's) also had plastic vent covers under the windscreen, rather than metal like Defenders, and Series. I'm pretty sure it was something to do with the aircon.



Oh, and they're also Very Cool! .........:)

[isuzutoo-eh]

Oh, and they're also Very Cool! .........:)

But only in Winter!

The plastic vent covers are only on air-con fitted Counties, non-air Counties had vents like most Landies.

The aircon in a County is mounted in the dash, leaving plenty of room for the front passenger's feet. TDI 110s had the aircon in the front passenger footwell.

[JDNSW]

County's (aka 110's) also had plastic vent covers under the windscreen, rather than metal like Defenders, and Series. I'm pretty sure it was something to do with the aircon.
.......

Yes, but only when fitted with factory air, as noted above. Metal covers were fitted to all Landrovers without factory air right up to the Tdci Defenders.

I think the point that should be emphasised is that there is no "difference" between "Countys" and Defenders, only the sort of changes that have kept being made during production ever since the first Landrover. The Defender was not a new model - it was a new name for the existing Landrover 90/110. The distinction is accentuated in Australia by the break from local assembly to import with a long hiatus, but even given this the differences apart from the new engine are less than those that changed either before or after 1990.

John

[JDNSW]

Yes - but the later 110 (countys) got that too.

"County" models were sold until 1991 AFAIK. As mentioned there were lots of changes along the way. A friend has a '91 county which has push button doors, painted (non-galvanised) cappings, the "defender position" seat which is also split-folding, etc etc...

My 1987 county has painted and galvanised cappings.

These vehicles also have thicker/stronger trailing arms.

Certainly in Melbourne in 1990 the 110 was not available, and I was told by the distributor that there were no plans to import Defenders - if I wanted a Landrover I would have to get a Discovery. (I bought a 2a instead)

John

[85county]

Whilst the plastic covers may give that distinctive appearance that the air conditioned County has, they are fastened from behind and, certainly on my 85 County, the plastic breaks. It's then out with the middle panel on the dash to get at the screws to release the covers, glue the plastic lugs back on and screw the covers back on. The air conditioning was always woefully inadequate in this vehicle although it helped make summer trips a little more bearable. Sadly it died about 10 years ago so we now use spray bottles, wet washers and open the windows like back in the good old days.

Our County has a very handy storage locker within the left, rear guard. The little bench seats came out soon after we bought it. The seat belts and anchor points have been very useful for securing tool boxes and our Engel fridge.

Helmut

[85county]

One thing that I really like about our V8 County is the relative simplicity of the vehicle and it's reliablity. It's all mechanical and fixable by someone of modest ability. Over 26 years and 345,000km we've only been halted in our tracks twice (apart from the odd puncture). Once the Facet fuel pump gave up the ghost and was easily replaced with the spare (about $150) that I always carry. The other time was when the Luminition control module died (after 20 odd years) and I had to reinstall the old points. I still run Luminition ignition but, for only a couple of hundred dollars, I simply carry a spare module nowadays. Yes, I've done the heads, cam, water pump, clutch, suspension bushes and other bits that wear out but it's never been broken and the car gets regular maintenance and comprehensive trip preparation.

I recently spoke to Peter Haylock (All 4X4 in Newcastle) and he mentioned that the Countys and early Defenders were the least expensive to maintain. I reckon that we can buy a fair amount of fuel and do a lot more trips with the money I'm saving by keeping our old truck (I came very close to parting with $50K+ earlier this year for a new Puma but settled on a Tvan instead).

Helmut

[Bigbjorn]

Everyone seems to have forgotten the Salisbury diff in the County. The County is generally a sturdier vehicle than the Defender that followed.

[isuzurover]

Certainly in Melbourne in 1990 the 110 was not available, and I was told by the distributor that there were no plans to import Defenders - if I wanted a Landrover I would have to get a Discovery. (I bought a 2a instead)

John

I always thought they finished in 89/90 until I saw this one. It is definitely the genuine article. Sold new in WA AFAIK.

[jskerm]

Everyone seems to have forgotten the Salisbury diff in the County. The County is generally a sturdier vehicle than the Defender that followed.

All defenders have the salisbury diff bar 90's and late model td5's and pumas as far as I know. I know my 96 has one.

[RVR110]

Fast idle control lever (least on v8 - don't know bout diesel) inside cabin. Removable roof (I don't mean from a roll over)

Cheers

The manual throttle would have been an option. One of my 1985 Counties had it and the other didn't. Both were petrol v8's :)

[Bush65]

As I understand it, before the Discovery there was Range Rover and Land Rover available in variations of the same vehicles.

Once another completely different Land Rover in the form of the Discovery came on the market the previous Land Rover was given the name Defender to avoid name (Land Rover) confusion.

[Loubrey]

Gentlemen,

Attached is a link to a thread relating to bullbars. The reason I attached the link is that the 90 in the photo is a 1998 Defender 90 Hard Top County. The word "County" refers to the fact that it's got cloth seats and a cubby box. Calling a vehicle, be it an early 1980's 110 or a 1998 Defender 90, a County does not describe it as a specific model year, nor does it describe the engine or any mechanical configuration.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/103569-new-arb-bullbar-defender-new-design.html

If the word County is an affectionate nickname for a specific "run" of older 110 vehicles, so be it, but at least 50% of all Defender shaped vehicles ever built are County's due to their trim level.

[jskerm]

As far as I'm concerned, in Australia, a County is a County. It may have been a trim level in the Uk, but here it was the only option in that period (in the wagons). Everyone knows exactly what australian land rover you mean when you say County, and its a far lot easier than saying "pre 1989 post 1984 land rover predecessor to the defender, but not a series 3, you know, the ones with the V8 and carpet"

[Bigbjorn]

Before the notion of the trim option was pointed out to me, I thought County referred to the full time 4WD system. I had bought parts from a Land Rover dealer in boxes marked County Engineering. They were responsible for Ford's 4WD farm tractor drive system.

A major attraction of the County-Isuzu to me is the abscence of electronic controls. No more instantaneous electronic falures leaving one stranded helpless in the backblocks.

[Loubrey]

Like I said, if the name "County" is an affectionate nickname for the Land Rover 110 in Australia, there is no intent to criticize the practice. I understand that only one trim level and one engine were offered at the time and by default they were known as County’s.

My mate’s 110 in the photo would be a “County” era 110 (1984) with a 2.5 litre normally aspirated diesel, an option never available in Australia, but it’s not a County as it came with a bench seat and very few luxuries and trim options.

[DeeJay]

Like I said, if the name "County" is an affectionate nickname for the Land Rover 110 in Australia, there is no intent to criticize the practice. I understand that only one trim level and one engine were offered at the time and by default they were known as County’s.

My mate’s 110 in the photo would be a “County” era 110 (1984) with a 2.5 litre normally aspirated diesel, an option never available in Australia, but it’s not a County as it came with a bench seat and very few luxuries and trim options.


Not sure about by de fault but it is known as County by de door.:Dhttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/09/234.jpg

[isuzurover]

....I understand that only one trim level and one engine were offered at the time ....

There were two engines - the 3.5 V8 and the (OZ-only) 4BD1 (3.9D). More were sold in V8 form AFAIK.

The diesels basically started life as a V8 without engine and bellhousing.

[Loubrey]

I stand corrected! :)

I must admit that I really only followed the developement of the diesels as my love for Land Rovers started with the cinema adds for Camel cigarettes showing the Camel Trophy in the very early 80's. Add gone wrong though, never smoked but got hooked on Land Rovers in stead!

Below is an interresting link for the overall history of Land Rover for anyone interrested. It does however not show the export specific vehicles for the southern hemisphere, like the one you pointed out to me or the South African specific Leyland sourced straight six that lacked power and guzzled fuel, but you do find a few fans of those as well!:D

A Short History (http://www.lr-mad.co.uk/en/lr-a-short-history)

[land864]

I call a County the big box shaped Landrover thing in a 110 wheel base built after the S3 Stage One and the 200Tdi Defender:angel:

So there :eek:

[Davehoos]

county preceeds defender---if only a ser3 had a name then it wouldy be callled a landy.my mate has a game i find that the public have no issues with this.

bit of fuss in the media about dropping the number system for land rovers.
i think you find the public has years ago.

I have a nissan history.in australia datsuns had names then they decided to go with numbers and it worked for a time.then it went silly and most people use the chasis prefix.

to stuff that system australian's adopted a 2 charictor id that then was adopted by nissan.

australians cant cope with FX being 48215.