Negotiating skills, prices

[af3556]

I'm looking to join the D3 owners club; have been checking prices, etc for the last couple of months and have a spreadsheet of approx. 35 dealer or private sale vehicles near Sydney/Gong that match my criteria (D3 SE, 2006 onwards):

D3 spreadsheet (google docs online) (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_GB&hl=en_GB&key=0AjAbwIsmQdD7dFpqMVVZWk9xX3VYMDdEVmNNamtPVnc&single=true&gid=6&output=html)

One thing I've clearly noticed is that the asking prices are significantly above what I'd expect based on depreciation from new (i.e. a vehicle that holds it's price reasonably well would be down to around 50-60% of the new price after four years, maybe a tad better for the D3?), and the red-book prices (though there is debate on the accuracy of redbook).

Here's a little case study: in that list is a 2007 SE diesel with low k's (51,506) and from what I can tell, no options. I'd be prepared to offer about mid to high 40's for that, yet it's listed at 57k. I can't be totally unreasonable - this specific car has been listed since early August so clearly it's priced too high. What do you reckon's a fair price?

Any tips and techniques for negotiating a price substantially lower than the advertised price?

Ben

[Pedro_The_Swift]

so whats wrong with this one?
SE200845,00050,000autodiesel52,80053
its dropped 50% in 3 years,,
only 45Kms,
its probably Kent Green too,,,:p

[Pedro_The_Swift]

some people will park it up rather than sell it for less than THEY THINK its worth,,

and the other side of the coin is,
some people will pay sticker price if its "THE car".

theres no right or wrong here,,,


feeling lucky?:D

[af3556]

so whats wrong with this one?
SE200845,00050,000autodiesel52,80053

That's a redbook "listing" - i.e. it's not a real car. I've included the redbook prices as "redbook" under the column titled "source" (and they're red in colour :-).

As you'll see, the redbook prices are all lower than just about the lowest real advertised price. A topic on other threads/fora is how redbook gets its data - speculation is the numbers are from stamp duty/rego transfer data, and that people under-report sales prices, but that doesn't really gel with me (i.e. a dealer isn't going to fib (by much) for the stamp duty).

[Neil P]

......(i.e. a dealer isn't going to fib (by much) for the stamp duty)....... don't forget the GST on the resale
is the reason for the massage-effect ;)

[Disco4SE]

Prior to buying the D3 (before the D4) I looked into resale prices of the LC100 & 200 and also the D3.
After alot of homework, I discovered to ignore the RED BOOK and go on actual resale prices.
Its a matter of supply & demand. If you have a vehicle that has been well looked after in great condition, the RED BOOK is irrelevant.
Cheers, Craig

[WhiteD3]

Just because that's what they're asking doesn't mean that's what they'll take. From personal experience I can tell you that there are few buyers in the market for a 2nd hand $40k+ cars.

[justinc]

Prior to buying the D3 (before the D4) I looked into resale prices of the LC100 & 200 and also the D3.
After alot of homework, I discovered to ignore the RED BOOK and go on actual resale prices.
Its a matter of supply & demand. If you have a vehicle that has been well looked after in great condition, the RED BOOK is irrelevant.
Cheers, Craig

Best thing I've heard for a long time, agree whole heartedly. It is a curse on the vehicle trade and causes way too many problems. I know it says 'only a guide' but you get these idiots turn up to look at your car spouting out rubbish like 'Red book says its only worth this much ' bla bla bla feel like clocking them.


Thats enough heart rate icrease for today...


JC

[101RRS]

Best thing I've heard for a long time, agree whole heartedly. It is a curse on the vehicle trade and causes way too many problems. I know it says 'only a guide' but you get these idiots turn up to look at your car spouting out rubbish like 'Red book says its only worth this much ' bla bla bla feel like clocking them.


Thats enough heart rate icrease for today...


JC

Yes - I was looking at some cars recently and got talking to the salesman about Redbook as most of his cars were well above Redbook Price - he did admit though they use Redbook as a general guide of what to give as a trade as it is lower than the cars worth and gives them something to quote as the basis for the low price when the seller complains.

Garry

[af3556]

Ok, I probably shouldn't have mentioned redbook... :-)

I'm not really going by the redbook prices, rather trying to feel out how low I can reasonably go in negotiations. Basically, if anyone's in the market at the moment, I'd love to hear how you've gone!

[101RRS]

Basic premise is everything is negotiable.

As a a general rule new listings will be less inclined to negotiate and listings that have been around for a while will be more inclined to talk turkey. Most sellers think accessories add value to the car when in reality they should not BUT clearly if you take that approach the seller will not sell but something to take into account.

Two basic approaches - make a silly offer first and see what happened - as long as you are getting on with the seller you both can have a laugh and then get on to serious bargaining. Second offer 10% less than you would reasonably be prepared to pay and see what happens - if rejected this gives you a 10% buffer to negotiate further.

Good luck with it.

Garry

[rovercare]

I'

Any tips and techniques for negotiating a price substantially lower than the advertised price?

Ben


Be prepared to walk away

Know what your prepared to pay

Make an off below that, work your way to the max you'd be willing to pay, be decided on thie BEFORE hand, if its not accepted, simply leave your number and walk away

[Neil P]

.... but you get these idiots turn up to look at your car spouting out rubbish like 'Red book says its only worth this much ' bla bla bla .....

This is starting to spread into realestate with the availability
(on-line without fees) of sales history to buyers.Selling anything
to the public is a pita.

[af3556]

I made a "fishing expedition" (silly, but only slightly so) offer on the 2007 SE diesel I used as an example to kick off this thread - asking 57k (which is nuts I reckon), I put it to the dealer that I was prepared to negotiate around the mid to high 40's. i.e. knock 10 grand off and we can talk. Got a phone call back today to say the best they could do was 55k. This, on a vehicle I believe was listed in early August, no options but low mileage (which is possibly not a good thing - 51,000 k's in 4 years is often via a lot of short trips / city driving).

Ah well, keep on fishin'.

Ben

[Disco4SE]

Ben,
Have you been looking to buy privately or only through a dealer?
I have only ever bought privately when buying second hand. This way you get to meet the owner and learn more about the vehicle.
Best if you go to their home to view the vehicle. This way, you get to look at their second vehicle and how IT is kept. Best if is near to the area that you live.
I believe that someone that lives Close by and knows where you live, is not going to sell you a did.
This theory has worked well for me in the past.
Likewise when you sell. I sold my well kept 80 Series Cruiser with 400K on It, to someone that I bump into at least once a week. It now has 600K on It and the owners are still smiling.

Cheers, Craig

[af3556]

Dealer vs. private: I'm fine either way - with a given that I really don't like car dealers. (I'm reminded of the lawyer joke: they're not all bad, it's only 97% of 'em that give the rest a bad name). i.e. I'm not going to pass up a good deal at a dealers, but I'm not expecting to see one either.

Another benefit of the private sale is that hopefully the car's true history will come out - I've had more than one dealer claim/feign ignorance/outright lie regarding a car's prior history (our other car's a Tarago, when looking for that one "stealer" claimed "one private owner, well looked after, not ex-lease" and only fessed up when I found shreds of a Hertz hire car agreement under the seats!). Hopefully someone selling a car from their own home is less likely to bare-face lie. Of course, I don't expect brutal honesty either :-).

Good tip re. checking on the seller's other vehicle(s)!

[Tote]

A couple of years ago I had a D2 listed at a reasonable price, slightly lower than most of the others of similar age and condition. was listed in March and didnt get anything except silly offers until the weather warmed up in September when I recieved several offers in a week or so. My conclusion was that no one was buying over winter. At the moment with the current economic climate I don't think there are many buyers.
I am selling a vehicle at the moment and am only getting the same silly offers ie asking price 9.5K, happy to negotiate to 8K but getting offers of 4k. For that money I am happy to hold on to the vehicle.

D3's do seem to hold their value well at the moment and as a seller unless you are desperate to sell you can only base you selling price on the other vehicles you are seeing listed. Might be a case of waiting until there are desperate sellers or revising what you are willing to pay. Redbook is not often a reliable guide anyway I find particularly with non mainstream vehicles like Land Rovers. Might be more accurate for falcadores due to a larger sample pool.

Regards,
Tote

[Neil P]

Good tip re. checking on the seller's other vehicle(s)!

I NEVER let anyone see anything else , and I'll lie through my teeth.
I'm average , so I've discovered :lol2:

[Disco4SE]

I NEVER let anyone see anything else , and I'll lie through my teeth.
I'm average , so I've discovered :lol2:
Neil P, not sure that I agree with you being average.
If people are genuine and honest about their vehicle, It tends to show through. After all, what have you got to hide (unless you are a car salesman)

Cheers, Craig

[Chad]

Stand your ground, the MARKET is pretty bad for Car Sales at the moment, especially the NEw and Almost ne high price tag D3, and D4s.

I have wanted 1 for ages as I have 3 other landys and finally got the Wife to go for a drive in one, as her 3 year old Jeep, is rough and we just recently had a baby, the car seat won't fit behind the passenger seat, so its in the middle. Makes it really hard to get the little one in and out, so LUCKY for ME she test drove a brand new D4 and absoulutely loved it.

Needless to say, the RETAIL prices are fairly pricey, shopped around a bit, and ended up finding a Dealer Demo, never been sold, with 12000km on it, heaps of extras 3.0lt twin turbo, 7 black leather seats, towbar, the 2 headlight upgrades, and everything we could possibly want.

Offered the price that I was prepared to pay,(probably would have gone a little more) and was told NO.

Dealer called back, and was close, and I stood my ground, he told me how good it was BLA BLA BLA, and I said until you can meet my price, don't call back, if you can I will pay DEPOSIT over the phone, no stuffing around.

Called and priced up the exact car with all the options, the seats, headlights, 3Lt twin Turbo, Silver, with black interior, and was just over 100k.

I heard back yesterday arvo, paid my deposit, and picking it up next week, for 70k, exactly, plus the 2650 in Transfer, stamp duty etc...

We are so excitied, and will be our family car for the next 10-15, years as its everything we could want.

Only prob is swapping the wheels, every now and then as the deal with the Wife was, 22inch range rover wheels for the everday round town, and the factory rims with ATs, for the weekends, holidays away.

Its a tough market, if your serious offer and stand your ground.

Chad

[jonesfam]

Get onto an agent, tell him exactly what you want & what you want to pay & see if he/she/it can do a deal for you.
Or one of those websites, put your price range & requirements in & see what dealers get back to you.
I did that with the Pathie & though it was a terrible car I did buy it for a, at that time, bargain.
Jonesfam

[Normthe1]

I bought my D3 a bit over a year ago now and when I put in for the finance, its leased, they knocked it back and said that the purchase price was too much according to Redbook. I told my finance lady to do her own search and check the prices out for herself.

The price is the price and Redbook has nothing to do with it...

[Neil P]

I heard back yesterday arvo, paid my deposit, and picking it up next week, for 70k, exactly, plus the 2650 in Transfer, stamp duty etc...

Its a tough market, if your serious offer and stand your ground.

Chad

Good for you !:D
For those reading this thread , the "industry standard" reduction
for upmarket demos id $2 per km . You got a good price , and
he wasn't happy , but the Dealership must have wanted to
see the back of it . After 12000km of them driving it , they'll
have fixed anything that popped-up . Keep those pipe wrenches
way from the interior ;)

[lpj]

Hi Chad,

Congratulations, that is an awesome deal. Can you let us know which dealer?

While I’m sure they don't have another sitting around, it would be good to know who is prepared to move on price and who isn't.

[Chad]

Atrarmon in Sydney mate.

Found it on Carsales, was $75k plus the Onroad, Stamp Duties and the transfer.

Can't wait to pick it up, should be a nice drive home....

Chad