Clutch fluid leak - master cylinder?

[SimonM]

I have had a small clutch fluid leak for a while now, in the Defender, but there is now some fluid on the back of the clutch pedal so it's time for action. I am assuming the master cylinder needs replacing.

A couple of questions:

1. Should I go OE or aftermarket? Money is tight so the wallet is telling me aftermarket but the brain is telling me OE. Not much difference though only 17GBP so I have probably answered my own question :p. Is there much difference in quality from people's experience?

2. Should I also replace the clutch flexible hose, and slave cylinder whilst I am at it?

3. I am thinking of giving it a crack myself. Any tips? I have found some good tutorials on the net and doesn't look overly complicated for the master cylinder.

[pfillery]

When I did the clutch hydraulics on my series 3 (same parts as the defender apparently) it was only $30 for the slave and $50 for the master, that was from a Landy parts place so assuming it was OE. Probably not a lot in it, they are probably all made by the same company like PBR etc.

I replaced the slave and while bleeding it the master died, replaced that too then had a leak in the hard line so replaced that as well, I guess you have to weigh up cost versus time. I wouldn't automatically replace everything unless it needs it, you can spend about $6 or $7 on a rekit for the master if you want to go that way and save some $$$.


I have had a small clutch fluid leak for a while now, in the Defender, but there is now some fluid on the back of the clutch pedal so it's time for action. I am assuming the master cylinder needs replacing.

A couple of questions:

1. Should I go OE or aftermarket? Money is tight so the wallet is telling me aftermarket but the brain is telling me OE. Not much difference though only 17GBP so I have probably answered my own question :p. Is there much difference in quality from people's experience?

2. Should I also replace the clutch flexible hose, and slave cylinder whilst I am at it?

3. I am thinking of giving it a crack myself. Any tips? I have found some good tutorials on the net and doesn't look overly complicated for the master cylinder.

[CraigE]

LR OE, what a joke they only use cheap trailer master cylinders anyway and charge a fair bit more. The best bet is a PBR unit and preferablly get it resleeved with a stainless bore. From memory only about $60 total.
There are many post on just this issue.

[gromit]

When I did the clutch hydraulics on my series 3 (same parts as the defender apparently) it was only $30 for the slave and $50 for the master, that was from a Landy parts place so assuming it was OE. Probably not a lot in it, they are probably all made by the same company like PBR etc..

If there isn't a name or initials in the casting then the part is quite possibly from India. If PBR (Bosch) are still making them they will probably be made overseas because there isn't much manufacturing left here.

I replaced the clutch master cylinder in my Defender some time ago. Indian $30, old stock PBR $80 or $120 for an Indian one that had been stainless steel sleeved.
I'd resealed the original cylinder some years ago and did think about re-sealing again but from the black colour of the brake fluid the aluminium was being worn away by the steel piston.
I ended up going for the stainless steel sleeved Indian one which should have a significantly longer life, had to change the operating rod because the Indian one was from a trailer and had the forked end.

Colin

[rainman]

If money is tight, the cheapest way will be to rebuild it yourself. Assuming the bore is undamaged, all you'll need is a kit which even sourced locally should be less than $20. The rebuild itself is simple. The hardest bit is getting it out. A ratchet spanner comes in very handy.


James.

[SimonM]

Thanks all.

I had a bad experience trying to rebuild the last thing someone told me was easy, so I am just gong for a replacement. Money is tight but not desperate. It just means the baby will have to miss out on a few meals :angel: ;).

I will check to see what brand my parts guy supplies.

[SimonM]

Aparently there are two types of slave cylinder depending on gearbox number FTC5202 & FTC5072. How do I find which I have? I can't seem to to find a number similar to these.

[rainman]

I had a bad experience trying to rebuild the last thing someone told me was easy, so I am just gong for a replacement.

Yeah - fair enough. I think next time I will just replace as well. I'm starting to realise that I'm spending too much time in the workshop and not enough time using the things that I'm always playing with. :(


James.

[mick88]

When it comes time to refill the system try silicone brake fluid. (DOT 5)

Well worth it!

Cheers, Mick

[isuzu110]

I've just done this job in the last week...

Remove the bonnet.

I used to remove the master cylinder from the pedal box which is fiddly. This time I used the advice of the forum and removed the six bolts holding the pedal box in place. You may also need to remove the retaining strip holding the underdash sound deadening to access the top two bolts.

I found that by removing the rubber pedal overlay, removal through the hole was easier.

Removing the master from the box on the bench is now much less fiddly than trying to do it in the vehicle.

Bleeding for me is a 3 person job. One for the pedal, one to do the bleed screw and one to keep an eye on the fluid reservoir. I'm sure you can get by with less or use a bleed kit.

My new masters never come with the right pushrod so I just keep swapping over the original pushrod.

[SimonM]

I am just waiting on parts and then I will get to it. Thanks for the rundown.

[gromit]

I've just done this job in the last week...

Remove the bonnet.

I used to remove the master cylinder from the pedal box which is fiddly. This time I used the advice of the forum and removed the six bolts holding the pedal box in place. You may also need to remove the retaining strip holding the underdash sound deadening to access the top two bolts.

I found that by removing the rubber pedal overlay, removal through the hole was easier.

Removing the master from the box on the bench is now much less fiddly than trying to do it in the vehicle.

Bleeding for me is a 3 person job. One for the pedal, one to do the bleed screw and one to keep an eye on the fluid reservoir. I'm sure you can get by with less or use a bleed kit.

My new masters never come with the right pushrod so I just keep swapping over the original pushrod.

I removed the pedal box the first time I did it about 9 years ago.
Last year I removed & replaced the cylinder with the pedal box in situ.

Unhitched the bonnet stay and folded the bonnet back against the windscreen to gain access.
It's a bit fiddly undoing & replacing the bolts but it's possible and saves removing the sound deadening material (and more importantly trying to get it fitted back in). I did it single handed but having someone to hold a spanner in-place in the cab would make it easier. If you loose your temper easily then go for the pedal box removal.....

A local LR repairer told me Defender 'do it in situ', Series 'remove the pedal box' his reasoning was the messing around with the sound deadening material took too much time.

Colin

[SimonM]

If you loose your temper easily then go for the pedal box removal.....

Colin

Pedal box removal it is then :D.

[Bushie]

Last year I removed & replaced the cylinder with the pedal box in situ.



Was getting quite good at that last year ;)

Martyn

[Jock The Rock]

Are the master cylinders a common fault in the Defenders?

Just noticed mine has started leaking again

This will be the third in 50,000km :mad:

Can you buy the stainless sleeved ones off the shelf?

My clutch fluid is a dark grey colour so I imagine the piston is munching the bore of the cylinder

[rick130]

Are the master cylinders a common fault in the Defenders?

[snip]

Yes.

I doubt if an SS sleeved 3/4MC can be bought off the shelf, but you never know.

I bought a PBR one five years, and probably 100,000km ago and it's been fine.
Don't use the OE TRW/Lucas/Girling ones, they are rubbish.

The unfortunate thing is that Girling were the MC's to use on race cars for brakes and clutch, and they were identical to a Landy clutch MC, so go figure.

[Jock The Rock]

Yes.

I doubt if an SS sleeved 3/4MC can be bought off the shelf, but you never know.

I bought a PBR one five years, and probably 100,000km ago and it's been fine.
Don't use the OE TRW/Lucas/Girling ones, they are rubbish.

The unfortunate thing is that Girling were the MC's to use on race cars for brakes and clutch, and they were identical to a Landy clutch MC, so go figure.

I'll have to get one sleeved then I guess

Reckon thats where I went wrong, bought Genuine last time hoping it would be all good

[rick130]

I'll have to get one sleeved then I guess

Reckon thats where I went wrong, bought Genuine last time hoping it would be all good

Been through one genuine one already, IIRC it only lasted twelve months before using the PBR version.

[Bushie]

If you get a resleeved one just check it and make sure it's been done properly, I've had one done where they put a tiny kink in the sleeve when the pressed (or however) it in, chewed out 3 seals in a few months before I realised the problem. Also know of one being sent back bored out but no sleeve fitted (a brake m/c)

Secondly if you put a kit through your existing m/c just be aware that there are different pistons and some kits may not fit (had that problem up the cape last year).



Martyn

[isuzu110]

I just paid $119 to have a clutch master re-sleeved by BHSS in Brisbane

[gromit]

Are the master cylinders a common fault in the Defenders?

Just noticed mine has started leaking again

This will be the third in 50,000km :mad:

Can you buy the stainless sleeved ones off the shelf?

My clutch fluid is a dark grey colour so I imagine the piston is munching the bore of the cylinder

Try Fred Smith Automotive in Bayswater, VIC (9720 4999) he usually keeps the sleeved ones in stock.
He sources the Indian ones and sends them straight out to be re-sleeved.


Colin

[SimonM]

On Sunday I had a chance to finally change the master cylinder. I opted for removing the pedal box rather than doing in situ. I test drove it for the first time today and realised how poor my clutch has been since i bought it :o. Much smoother now.