Keys, Keys, Keys

[Homestar]

So, apart from the trannie that died, I need to spend money in one other area (that I currently know of:p)

The vehicle only came with one key. I knew this before I bought it, and this was used as some bargaining power.

Now, I am lead to believe that only a Stealer can program one, which I expected, but I am also lead to believe that keys can be had from elsewhere before the Stealer programs them.

So, if this is the case, can anyone suggest who I can buy one off? I have heard prices muttered between $150 and $600 for the key, before programming, but I don't know from where... Has anyone had this done, if so, how much and from where?

Cheers - Gav

[RangieBit]

Hey there Gav,

Was distressed to read of your grief with the transmission.

Now, regarding keys. They can usually obtained through a stealer as they need to verify the VIN number to get the immobiliser chip right for your beastie (frequency) and provide the correct cut shaft. Having said that there are indy's in the UK that can provide a new key blank with the correct bits for somewhat less than a dealer will charge here. They do it via essentially the same method of VIN verification. Beware though as some only provide the fob electronics package and a blank shaft so you still have to get a specialist locksmith to cut the shaft to match for you here. This tends to be a non-cheap exercise too.

If you know someone who has a FaultMate then it can be used to teach the immobiliser the new key chip. This would be much cheaper than having the dealer do it with TestBook/T4.

Although, all up if you have a good relationship with your local stealer then they may be willing to program it for you gratis if you obtain the key through them. Bear in mind that they typically still have to come from LR in the UK anyway so either method (stealer or UK indy) will be as slow as the other.

So, if you get the key fob cheaper out of the UK you still have to get a local dealer to program it into the car for you. If you get it here they will usually quote you to get the key and program it. Be sure to clarify that anyway. In the end, my gut says the resulting cost may be very similar for either method. Your research may show different.

My initial research, out of curiosity, showed fairly similar costs but I certainly didn't spend a lot of time hunting.

I'm sorry I can't remember any of the places I found that had new keys for the L322. The price landed I recall was about half what the dealer wanted. I think about $300, a couple of years ago. Hence the lack of remembering names.

My L322 also only came with one key but I never felt a compelling need to get another as I'm the only one in the household licensed to drive, and my girlfriend refuses to drive the beast. The only thing wrong with my solitary key was that the rubber button covers had broken up. This was easily fixed with a $25 Polmex kit obtained via FleaPay. So, good as new.

Hope this helps some.

Cheers,
Iain

[33chinacars]

Hi Gav

Can find plenty of key fobs on ebay but they dont have the chip

If you haven't already, search or put a question on FFRR forum. Sure our pommy friends will be able to help. Try Dan at Duckworths, many specials for FFRR members. many be best to conact thru forum
http://www.duckworthparts.co.uk/landrover/welcome.html

Following on from Iain. Ebay fobs about $30 everything except chip . Some can even cut ket blade to suit if you have the code. Here's one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RANGEROVER-3-VOGUE-HSE-2002-2006-KEY-FOB-REMOTE-CASE-/260809113591?pt=UK_Car_Accessories_Safety_Security&hash=item3cb96f3ff7



Gary

[33chinacars]

Hi Gav

This is on FFRR but better be quick

fullfatrr.com - View topic - FS: 2x remote fob internals (http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic7854.html)

Gary

[Homestar]

Thanks for that Gary - I have sent him a PM - I'll have to wait and see if I got in quick enough.

Cheers - Gav

[Terrain Vehicles]

We can supply keys, but we have to get them from Land Rover. There is only one factory in Switzerland that makes them and there is no telling how long it will take.

Best talk to you local dealer, not eBay sellers.

[jsp]

Wonder if you can code the transponder chip with a hitag2 device? Or is that a long shot?

[jsp]

Wonder if you can code the transponder chip with a hitag2 device? Or is that a long shot?

Can answer my own question - no you can't clone the L322 transponder.

The EWS sends a code to the transponder chip and then looks and checks for the code next time you start the car, and then changes the code again.

More than one transpoder with the same id would mean the system would get out of sync looking for the unique code to match that id updated at every use.

[Homestar]

Bugger - I thought you may be on to something there...:p

Can you get the transponder chips seperately? It looks like you don't get the transponder when you order a key (cut or uncut) from fleabay...?

[jsp]

From what I can tell, and anyone feel free to jump in and correct me but there are three levels of security for keys:

Key is cut to fit the lock, cant open car and turn key in ignition if key doesn't match lock barrel. This is easy to get cut and made locally for a fair price.

Key has a transmitter board which runs off a battery and has lock/unlock buttons to use remote central locking/keyless entry. This system uses rolling codes, and the car's computer sync's to the rolling code set used by the remote's microchip, which is meant to be unique to all others by way of a 128bit hex number identifying it. This is easy to get the car to learn the remotes code sequence locally for a fair price/free as per instructions.

Key has a transponder chip, made up of a coil, an ic and a small capacitor. The transponder can send and receive data, and has a 128bit identification number which is sent to the car's computer, which then requests another rolling code from the transponder ic's memory before it will allow the car to be started. Once the engine is stopped, the car's computer writes another 128bit code to the transponder's ic, which is a unique generated code. The car's computer is hard coded to recognise ten set transponder id's, and can't learn or delete the id's it knows. The cars computer keeps the rolling codes for all the active transponder id's. Landrover has a master database by vin of the codes to create each 10 transponder id's for each car. This is not possible to change, and expensive to get a transponder coded to your car from the dealer.


Using equipment from various companies you could clone a transponder IC, but this is not a viable option given the car's computer is looking also for a random code it gave the transponder last time it was used.

In my case I have a key which I can program to lock/unlock my car, but appears to be missing its transponder, as it wont unlock the steering column or start the car. I am stuck, as the only way I can get a transponder to work in my car is order a whole key from the dealer OR make one myself.

To make one, you need to get a memory dump from an IC in the "immobilsation ECU" using a special reader for that model IC. This can be purchased easily of the internet. Then you need a blank transponder which again can be purchased from the net. Last but not least you need a device like the hitag2 mentioned above to write to the transponder. Using software you should be able to write a code for any of the 10 keys the immobilsation ECU will talk to, and the first time it see's a new transponder ID its meant to just accept it and start dishing out rolling codes. i don't feel like ripping apart ECU's and extracting IC's. I don't feel like spending in excess of $1200 to do a one off. I don't feel like taking the risk on some dodgy looking Chinese software. I'm sure there's a nice way of doing it I just haven't found it.

[Homestar]

That's a fairly detailed run down of the system, thanks heaps for that.:) Looks like it will be very hard to fudge a key and transponder any time soon:(.

If someone manages to do this before I save up to get one from a stealer, let me know...:D

Cheers - Gav.

[jsp]

I haven't looked into wether it would get upset or not, but I guess you could simply take the transponder out of the key, stick it in the barrel ring under the trim, and then have as many key's cut as you like from the cheap ebay ones, but a few from the wreckers to get the remote electronics and sync them all to your car.

I guess technically it voids insurance as your car wouldn't be imobilised, but you should in theory have as many keys as you want with keyless entry for much cheaper?

very dodgy though ;)

[Hoges]

1. Buy a phone card from Woolies /Coles wherever ..the "Daybreak" are OK, you can call the UK for about 3-4cents/min.
2. With said phone card call a couple of UK dealers and speak to the parts people. Ask if they will arrange a replacement key for you.

3. If "Yes"! Email them the VIN for your vehicles plus scanned copy of your Rego papers/image of driver's licence/deed of sale/ close up photo of original key blade : this is important.

For about 200 quid / A$350 you can get a brand new remote fob/key ...takes about 3 weeks and includes the cost for registered mail from the UK. This saves about A$400 on the local dealer price ...

OR

4. send similar details to friend in the UK ask them to organise. If they explain it is for export, there's no VAT.

(WARNING) on my first try (for P38) the key they sent was the wrong one:angrylock:
That's why the photo of your original key is important...
All's good now however!:D

[Homestar]

I haven't looked into wether it would get upset or not, but I guess you could simply take the transponder out of the key, stick it in the barrel ring under the trim, and then have as many key's cut as you like from the cheap ebay ones, but a few from the wreckers to get the remote electronics and sync them all to your car.

I guess technically it voids insurance as your car wouldn't be imobilised, but you should in theory have as many keys as you want with keyless entry for much cheaper?

very dodgy though ;)

Interesting thought... I might see if that works...:p


1. Buy a phone card from Woolies /Coles wherever ..the "Daybreak" are OK, you can call the UK for about 3-4cents/min.
2. With said phone card call a couple of UK dealers and speak to the parts people. Ask if they will arrange a replacement key for you.

3. If "Yes"! Email them the VIN for your vehicles plus scanned copy of your Rego papers/image of driver's licence/deed of sale/ close up photo of original key blade : this is important.

For about 200 quid / A$350 you can get a brand new remote fob/key ...takes about 3 weeks and includes the cost for registered mail from the UK. This saves about A$400 on the local dealer price ...

OR

4. send similar details to friend in the UK ask them to organise. If they explain it is for export, there's no VAT.

(WARNING) on my first try (for P38) the key they sent was the wrong one:angrylock:
That's why the photo of your original key is important...
All's good now however!:D

That is a great idea.:). Been quoted $650 to get one locally.