Which Defender to choose?

[jimb]

Hey. Newbie here. Boyhood dream to own Defender. family returning from Netherlands and the time has come for the dream to be realised. Wondering if forum members could help me out with a few questions.

Budget is around $15,000. For that money normally quite a few km's on the clock and have a few questions.

Q1. How much is a reconditioned engine (with exchange) approx cost?
a. 200Tdi
b. 300Tdi
c. Td5

Q2. Which Defender would you choose?
1. 1993 Tdi 200 140,000km- good condition
2. 1994 Tdi300 190,000km- good condition
3. 2000 Td5 250,000km- good condition

So all reasonable condition (havent actually seen them in the flesh as yet) and all about the same price. Am I right in thinking I will need to spend money on timing belts and possible engine replacement- particularly for two older models?

[weeds]

i would go the 300tdi with 190k on the clock

i have only ever owned a 300tdi and it has served me well. i have just recently had a new head fitted but apart from that at 330k its just normal wear and tear

[alexturner]

Depends what you want to do with it man. The Tdi's are great because everything is mechanical where as the TD5 is EFi.

[bcj]

I'd take the 300tdi with less k's
Td5 be better for city driving & family (ABS) , also better for long haul.
These engines should be good for 300k+ (500k + if looked after), your early r380 g/box ('94 300tdi) may have some play on transfer input gear which was addressed on later models, I've a 94 tdi with similar k's and g/box fine
Tdi probably be cheaper to fix than Td5 ,but is older & if it's been near salt even with lower k's could lead to future rust issues
Also check with your insurance company what they'll insure a tdi for, my '95(94) 110 is below $7k now ,but can you buy a good one for that ? :mad: Don't understand this myself but that's 'market value'

Brett

110 300tdi

[twisted leader]

300 TDi, no electrics/electronics!!!!

[Tikirocker]

I might be biased but ... County. ;)

Tiki.

[Loubrey]

300Tdi - without doubt the best allround package built to date.

[oneten85]

I own an Isuzu 3.9 Turbo County, County 3.5 V8 and a 300tdi 130.

All these vehicles are very different in handling and and economy.

The power from the V8 outdoes the other two, great for towing and overall a little better built interior than the Defender 130. Never had any issues with it having changed the cooling system, converted to electronic ingition. easy to work on due to no electronics if buying the carbie version which I have. These engines are great but are prone to overheating so make sure the cooling system is up to scratch, although replacement stock engines are quite cheap and affordable as opposed to the Isuzu or Tdi.

The Isuzu is the same vehicle as the County except motor an power. A little noisy and a little underpowered at times on the road but off road torque is magnificent, you will not stall it. Robust engine although components for these can get a bit expensive and hard to come by. Never had to touch the engine since owned except for oil and filter changes, very low maintenance.

The 300tdi 130 is a great meduim, it has the low down torque for offroading and the turbo works well while highway driving. Easy to repair as it has no electronics, you can pretty much diagnose any issues quite easily if you know a little about them. Be sure to change the timing belt normally every 70Kms. Great engine, great economy compared to the other two. The 1996 130 has the good combination with the R380 gearbox and Salisbury diff, great machine.

[Terrain Vehicles]

As asked above, what are you going to use it for?

[jimb]

Firstly, thanks for this information. Not very knowledgable.

Car use: everything. Kids to school, family camping at Fraser Island (probably with camping trailer, also getting to Fraser so 1000k's of highway driving each way etc. Keen to doing long trip across top end of Australia in the next 18 months- so on road, off road- but not off road smash n bash, just going places and want confidence in the car.

Sounds like the 300Tdi is a nice set up.

BCJ. You mentioned rust issues if the car has been near salt water: coastal places etc (which they have). Do you mean inside engine rust damage etc , or just hinges, panels etc.

onenten85. You mentioned timing belt every 70k. Really?! That often. I am not sure I can do it myself just yet. I mean it is more difficult than a light bulb, but know mates here that do it themselves.

How much would a mechanic charge in labour for a timing belt?

The 1994 300Tdi has been sold. Bugger. But all this advice helps me make a better informed decision.

[Benz]

rust in firewall and doors mainly.

pull all the floor mats out of the front to check the firewall

[Terrain Vehicles]

If it's in budget, then go TD5. The engine is smoother, more powerful, better at cruising, tuneable, etc. Tdi's are nice and robust for long range, overland work, but not very refined.

Take a TD5 for a test drive, then try a Tdi and compare the difference.

[jimb]

Terrain Vehicles. Top advice, will do.

Benz, thanks for that. doors, along the bottom of the sills etc. cross check?

You guys have any feedback on my timing belt question?

Deadset, cannot wait to get back and try them out. Trying not to let emotion come into making a hasty decision but hard not too.

[Terrain Vehicles]

Tdis will need timing belts changed. Make sure you buy the proper kit with the modified pulley with the 300 Tdis. TD5s have a timing chain.

[Benz]

yeah mate just look at the bottom of the doors.
this the first spot top rust anyway
the skin is ally but the frame is steel

the doors are not hard to fix mind you when minor rust is present
but the firewall is a bit harder

[jimb]

Benz. Beauty. re: doors, etc.

Terrain. Didn't realise the Td5's had timing chains.. nice. (or not?), [makes sense doesn't it? Do you have to replace the chain- eg: like a bike chain, it wears and needs replacing but you also need to replace the cogs on the bicycle.. if you want smooth cadence.. does the same apply to a car engine?]

Well, all 3 defenders have been sold now.. so back on the waiting game. bugger, well at least no hasty decision possible. TERRAIN, you are pretty much the only one that advised on the engines I was looking at. Will take them for a drive but really a starting to like the Td5 model.

[MLD]

Hi Jimb,

In July this year I was posed with the same Q and did a lot of test driving and research on this forum. I bought a '99 TD5 for the simple reasons that i picked it up for the same asking price as a 300 Tdi, it was more refined that the 300 and tunable. What I learned. The 200Tdi is a rough old girl, torquey off road but not refined on the bitumen. Sound deadening will be your first upgrade. The 300 Tdi is a different engine to the 200Tdi. LR refined the engine thus more pleasant to drive on the bitumen and about the same off road. Some LR mechanics I spoke to held the view that the 200 was more reliable and less prone to mechanical fault. If you are buying a 300 with kms most of the shortcomings of the 300 have been resolved with little upgrades ie the timing belt pulley mentioned earlier.

Can't speak for the TC and gearbox in the 200 or 300. My TD5 has 340k on the clock. The engine is strong as is the gearbox and TC. No metal filings at the recent major service. I expect 500k from the drive train before having to put my hand in my pocket. That said, the service history is the largest contributor to engine, GB and TC longevity. Keep clean oil up to it and it should repay you with a long life.

I've been told that an engine rebuild will set you back about $10,000. Might be overpriced by a few grand but expect to budget $8k for an engine. A gearbox is about $2k. A TC is about $1,500 (the gears are about $300 + labour).

The TD5 has a timing chain and does not require a scheduled replacement. My mechanic (a defender nut) said he has replaced 3 chains in his life and each was part of an engine rebuild.

With standard rubber the TD5 is torquey off road but has a different feel to the 300 which feels like it has more torque at crawl. I upgraded to 33" rubber which affects the crawl torque. A little right foot is needed. On road she pulls with plenty of torque and is somewhat refined. It's a defender. At 60kph the stereo volume is at 14 on the dial. At 80 kph it's at 20/22. At 100 kph it's at 27 to listen to it at the same audible volume.

For $15k you will be looking at a '99 to '01 without the extreme pack (traction control and ABS). Those features became standard from '04 (I think). I was at Mt Airlie on the weekend. There were several stock defenders with ABS and TC doing the track with the same ease as my locked TD5. Considering you can drive out of the showroom onto a track like Mt Airlie and do it with ease, the TC and ABS features a marvellous tool. Early 2000 extremes are going for +- $20k.

I am mechanically inept and fear a track side problem. If you are the same the TD5 is a greater risk than the 200 or 300. Being mechanical they are easy to repair roadside and any mechanic with a ticket will be able to get you on the road again. That said, the defender is a simple car by design and the things that go wrong are well canvassed on this forum. Read the forums and over time you will recognise the possible fault even if the skills of repair are lacking.

If you fear mechanical fault in the bush, buy a toyota. Sad but a reality for LR owners (availability of parts mostly). Of the 300 and TD5, the 300 is the most reliable because such few things can go wrong, the TD5 is a much better car to drive around town and if prepared meticulously it should get you to your destination and back. Don't buy a 200 because you will tire of the crudeness of it for bitumen duties. On a budget of $15,000 my money would be to invest $10,000 into the purchase price, fit a truetrac in the front diff and a truetrac or detroit locker in the rear ($3,500 for both), 1 inch lift and all terrain tyres. The basics for an unstoppable off road truck that will take you over 90% of the tracks with ease.

It's fun toying with all the options out there. Enjoy the experience. I love my TD5 and it's money well spent.

cheer MLD

[isuzurover]

Benz. Beauty. re: doors, etc.

Terrain. Didn't realise the Td5's had timing chains.. nice. (or not?), [makes sense doesn't it? Do you have to replace the chain- eg: like a bike chain, it wears and needs replacing but you also need to replace the cogs on the bicycle.. if you want smooth cadence.. does the same apply to a car engine?]

Well, all 3 defenders have been sold now.. so back on the waiting game. bugger, well at least no hasty decision possible. TERRAIN, you are pretty much the only one that advised on the engines I was looking at. Will take them for a drive but really a starting to like the Td5 model.

The Td5 has a chain. It should last as long as the rest of the engine if serviced properly. The Td5 also is generally well designed and well thought out - probably due to the input from BMW into the development.

I would buy a TD5 over a Tdi (despite the electronics in the TD5). However I would buy one with an ISUZU 4BD1 over either of those.

[rainman]

You can purchase the parts from the UK and do it yourself for as little as about $75, but you do need to have or make a couple of specialist tools and really know what you're doing. If you do it wrong you could cause major engine damage.

Conversely, the kit supplied and fitted here will cost around $700 - $800 from what I have heard.

If you're buying a 300Tdi, just make sure you know when it was last done and factor that it the purchase price.


James.
P.S. My vote is the 300Tdi also ;).

[isuzurover]

You can purchase the parts from the UK and do it yourself for as little as about $75, but you do need to have or make a couple of specialist tools and really know what you're doing. If you do it wrong you could cause major engine damage.


Specialist tools aren't necessary IME.

I recently replaced a belt on my 300Tdi, the only "specialist" tools needed were a spanner I had to grind thinner to remove the fan, drill bits to hold the pump and flywheel (flywheel - drill bit inside steel tube, held in place using a block of wood and a jack) in place and a torque wrench than can read low enough for the belt.

[rainman]

Specialist tools aren't necessary IME.

I recently replaced a belt on my 300Tdi, the only "specialist" tools needed were a spanner I had to grind thinner to remove the fan, drill bits to hold the pump and flywheel (flywheel - drill bit inside steel tube, held in place using a block of wood and a jack) in place and a torque wrench than can read low enough for the belt.

:D Yeah - I recently did about the same, but vowed that next time I would at least make a puller for the crank pulley. I'm not telling how I got it off :cool:....

You didn't need two torque wrenches to tension the belt - deflecting beam to apply the tension and another to tighten the bolt?

[isuzurover]

:D Yeah - I recently did about the same, but vowed that next time I would at least make a puller for the crank pulley. I'm not telling how I got it off :cool:....

You didn't need two torque wrenches to tension the belt - deflecting beam to apply the tension and another to tighten the bolt?

I used the starter method to undo the crank bolt, and the pulley slid off fairly easily... (maybe I was lucky?).

As for the 2nd - no, but then after reading a recent thread I may have tensioned it too much...

[rainman]

You were lucky! I didn't have too much drama undoing the bolt (apart from slightly pulling the tendons in my elbow), but the pulley certainly didn't "slide off".

Sorry for thread hijack jimb. In answer to your TD5 timing chain replacement question, chains last a lot longer than belts so they are normally changed during other major work like head gasket replacement or head overhaul.


James.

[jimb]

Hi Jimb,

In July this year I was posed with the same Q and did a lot of test driving and research on this forum. I bought a '99 TD5 for the simple reasons that i picked it up for the same asking price as a 300 Tdi, it was more refined that the 300 and tunable. What I learned. The 200Tdi is a rough old girl, torquey off road but not refined on the bitumen. Sound deadening will be your first upgrade. The 300 Tdi is a different engine to the 200Tdi. LR refined the engine thus more pleasant to drive on the bitumen and about the same off road. Some LR mechanics I spoke to held the view that the 200 was more reliable and less prone to mechanical fault. If you are buying a 300 with kms most of the shortcomings of the 300 have been resolved with little upgrades ie the timing belt pulley mentioned earlier.

Can't speak for the TC and gearbox in the 200 or 300. My TD5 has 340k on the clock. The engine is strong as is the gearbox and TC. No metal filings at the recent major service. I expect 500k from the drive train before having to put my hand in my pocket. That said, the service history is the largest contributor to engine, GB and TC longevity. Keep clean oil up to it and it should repay you with a long life.

I've been told that an engine rebuild will set you back about $10,000. Might be overpriced by a few grand but expect to budget $8k for an engine. A gearbox is about $2k. A TC is about $1,500 (the gears are about $300 + labour).

The TD5 has a timing chain and does not require a scheduled replacement. My mechanic (a defender nut) said he has replaced 3 chains in his life and each was part of an engine rebuild.

With standard rubber the TD5 is torquey off road but has a different feel to the 300 which feels like it has more torque at crawl. I upgraded to 33" rubber which affects the crawl torque. A little right foot is needed. On road she pulls with plenty of torque and is somewhat refined. It's a defender. At 60kph the stereo volume is at 14 on the dial. At 80 kph it's at 20/22. At 100 kph it's at 27 to listen to it at the same audible volume.

For $15k you will be looking at a '99 to '01 without the extreme pack (traction control and ABS). Those features became standard from '04 (I think). I was at Mt Airlie on the weekend. There were several stock defenders with ABS and TC doing the track with the same ease as my locked TD5. Considering you can drive out of the showroom onto a track like Mt Airlie and do it with ease, the TC and ABS features a marvellous tool. Early 2000 extremes are going for +- $20k.

I am mechanically inept and fear a track side problem. If you are the same the TD5 is a greater risk than the 200 or 300. Being mechanical they are easy to repair roadside and any mechanic with a ticket will be able to get you on the road again. That said, the defender is a simple car by design and the things that go wrong are well canvassed on this forum. Read the forums and over time you will recognise the possible fault even if the skills of repair are lacking.

If you fear mechanical fault in the bush, buy a toyota. Sad but a reality for LR owners (availability of parts mostly). Of the 300 and TD5, the 300 is the most reliable because such few things can go wrong, the TD5 is a much better car to drive around town and if prepared meticulously it should get you to your destination and back. Don't buy a 200 because you will tire of the crudeness of it for bitumen duties. On a budget of $15,000 my money would be to invest $10,000 into the purchase price, fit a truetrac in the front diff and a truetrac or detroit locker in the rear ($3,500 for both), 1 inch lift and all terrain tyres. The basics for an unstoppable off road truck that will take you over 90% of the tracks with ease.

It's fun toying with all the options out there. Enjoy the experience. I love my TD5 and it's money well spent.

cheer MLD

Fella's,
Thanks for all the advice. Really appreciating it and helps at least feel like I know why I will buy one over another even it doesn't turn out to be the case.


MLD: Thanks for the great reply! (What is a truetrac? is it traction control?)

Rainman: thanks for all that TB info.

[Terrain Vehicles]

We have been servicing TD5s since they first came out, and we have never had to replace a timing chain. We have only seen two engine failures, both caused by one problem...the driver! One tried to sqeeze too much power out of it and melted a piston, the other decided to keep going when the temperature gauge went into the red. After all, he was only 100 miles from home... :confused:

A handfull of head gaskets, and a fair share of wiring looms, but other than that the TD5 is a great engine.

[MLD]

Hi Jimb,

There is the auto locker made by detroit that everyone knows of. Detroit also make a automatic torque biased locker called a truetrac. While it operates by different mechanical means to an LSD, it's effect is similar. It's objective is to transfer torque, by biasing the differential, from the wheel with less traction to the wheel with traction. Depending on the manufacturer (Ashcroft, Truetrac, Gold trac, Quaiffe, and others) the torque bias preload is different (when the mechanism kicks in) and the bias (how much torque is transferred from one axle to the other) is different. Unlike a full locker the automatic torque bias will always permit the wheel with less traction to spin. The bias is generally about 60/40. 40% to the wheel with more traction.

They are more forgiving on the axle components because of the limited slip that it permits. In a full locker if one wheel on an axle is in the air the other wheel will get 100% of the torque from the engine (allocated to that end of the car) and the stress that it imposes on the drive components, thus the need to fit heavy duty axles etc. If combined with traction control the automatic torque biased locker are a great traction aid. One of the shortcomings of an automatic torque biased locker is that when one wheel is completely in the air there is no resistance to transfer torque to the wheel with traction. It can be overcome with a little left foot braking, which is what the traction control does for you without your involvement.

A ATB locker does not affect your steering like a full locker on the front. It's heavier than normal but you have steering. With a full locker in the front the driver is bit of a passenger as the wheels fight for traction and pull one way or the other. Lots of good things to be said about full lockers and I've fitted one the rear and love it. The front axle is more subjective. The question is whether you want selectable full traction with compromised steering to get you out of trouble or subtle contribution to traction with full steering all of the time.

Have a read on the Ashcroft site to get an idea. My understanding is that the ashcroft ATB locker mechanically operates the same as the Truetrac.
Ashcroft Transmissions (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=88)

Enjoy the journey. I found that with plenty of research the right car for my needs came to me in my sleep. I did previously suggest the 300 Tdi as a car of minimal risk, but I've had no mechanical trouble with the TD5 bar a fuse. As mentioned by someone else, BMW owned LR when they were developed and they benefit from the lessons learned on the 300 Tdi and the Discovery.

cheers MLD

[jimb]

Guys,
Maybe I am emotional right now as I am about to emigrate back to AUS after 10 years in Amsterdam, but jesus these replies make me feel like Aussie's are some of the best people in the world. Heaps of advice... can almost see the smile.

The more I am learning the more I am realising how bloody ignorant I am... like you say MLD.. its a journey.. Enjoy it!

Anyway, hope one day I can buy you blokes a beer!

Will check out that site you mentioned and do some googling to understand all the stuff you mentioned.

TERRAIN VEHICLES
What sort of problems do you usual have with Td5's? Just want to make sure when stuff comes up I can afford it and I don't have my dream car sitting on the street undriveable like a broke uni student.. Great to know about those timing chains. Had a mercedes station wagen (not what you think) bought it for 200 euro, 1997, beats on the autobaan, 3.2 litre motor and the family were safe as hell driving on summer holidays.. but it also had a chain... and I only found that out when a guy was buying it last weekend and he was haggling price and said he would need to do the timing belt soon .. bla bla.. anyway, BS.


Well, the car doesnt just come in my sleep it is on my brain every minute of the day. For sure it is sold by the time I get to AUS, get to Sydney and check it out.. but I figure just wait again for the right vehicle to come up.

Thanks again.. (please tell me anything you think a 4 year odl should know.. I'll appreciate it)

Jim

[jimb]

Bloody Td5 off the market as of this arvo. bugger. was really after the wagen, but there is a 300Tdi dual cab that is cheaper but obviously older.. mmm?

[rovercare]

We have been servicing TD5s since they first came out, and we have never had to replace a timing chain. We have only seen two engine failures, both caused by one problem...the driver! One tried to sqeeze too much power out of it and melted a piston, the other decided to keep going when the temperature gauge went into the red. After all, he was only 100 miles from home... :confused:

A handfull of head gaskets, and a fair share of wiring looms, but other than that the TD5 is a great engine.

I've seen the timing chain adjusters fail and go bad

Injector loom, failed turbos, oil pump bolts, injector looms, head gaskets, injector looms, head gaskets, injector looms:D

[Terrain Vehicles]

Guys,
TERRAIN VEHICLES
What sort of problems do you usual have with Td5's? Just want to make sure when stuff comes up I can afford it and I don't have my dream car sitting on the street undriveable like a broke uni student.. Great to know about those timing chains. Had a mercedes station wagen (not what you think) bought it for 200 euro, 1997, beats on the autobaan, 3.2 litre motor and the family were safe as hell driving on summer holidays.. but it also had a chain... and I only found that out when a guy was buying it last weekend and he was haggling price and said he would need to do the timing belt soon .. bla bla.. anyway, BS.



As mentioned above, oil in the injector wiring loom which if left un-checked will creep along the engine loom to the ECU and cause rough running/misfire. Normally cured by replacing the short injector loom, main engine loom, rocker cover gasket, etc. Parts cost £250-300 depending on age/model of the vehicle.

ABS sensors can cause problems, as can the hub bearings as you need to replace the whole hub if the latter goes.

Air springs are a bit of a weak spot if being used heavily, but you can get coil spring conversion kits.

Other than that, they are pretty good really. Service them when they need and they shouldn't let you down.

[oneten85]

Go the One Thirty!

Mine is so economical and a reliable daily driver.

Great for the dog and surfboards.

[jimb]

one thirty . gone.

Well at least I am informed now on what to look out for!

[tonic]

It took me 2 years to get my 300tdi. The biggest problem was rust. New doors are around $1,200 each. From the UK, $300 each for skins (you have to swap out all the winders, glass, rubber etc) plus freight. I wanted a 300 as they are all mechanical, so have done no research on the td5, but people love the highway bit with them.

Like any second hand car you never know who has owned it before and how it was looked after. Mine had been a WA car for 180km with all receipts, then a Canadain couple took it round Australia, then the young bloke I got it from.

He was not mechanical at all and had been driving around with buggered ball joints and bushes. He just had a new head fitted and the brakes all done up. I bought it unregistered once I showed him what was wrong and he then could not afford a road worthy.

I have done a full bush replacement, might as well do all if you have to do 4 of them. Replaced 4 bolts that were worn due to driving with worn bushes. Replaced all ball joints. Replaced the drives side swivel seal, new shocks in front and new steering dampner, that was just anal. I did this all myself having never worked on this type of car before. This stuff is a breeze, if you have a press at work.

Now road worthy done and off to do rust this week. Very minor under doors starting at the drains. Mainly having the door cards removed and inner doors cleaned and rust proofed. But matching paint and labour etc etc at mates rates is still going to be $1600. Back door does need a bit of welding.

Mate I saw cars with 330km with giant holes in the floor and rusted out doors where they wanted $13,000 because it was a 300tdi. We all agree that 300tdi is a great car but, even a 98 is now almost 14 years old and nothing lasts forever. If you are not mechanical make sure you have it well looked at by someone who is and who also knows where to find the rust in them. Most of the ones I looked at were crap, OK if you could get them for 4 or 5k and were prepared for a lot of work.

My mate has a 1997 130 that he has had from new. Very well looked after, regular services, timming belts etc. Mainly a work car in quarries, no beach work, no heavy 4x4ing even thought it has maxi diffs front and back. At 250k's the worst things so far are 2 clutches ( one was faulty)and a head machine, set of shocks and a couple of bushes. Rust just appearing in drivers door.

I found on research that the 200tdi is expensive on parts and a bit noisy on the highway.

I like 300's, but again, they are second hand so be carefull. Most of the ones I looked at were people who were not land rover lovers :banban:who had got them to the point of too hard or too expensive to fix trying to sell them for what a good one would cost.

Hope this litle chat helps.

Tony

[jimb]

It took me 2 years to get my 300tdi.

I have done a full bush replacement, might as well do all if you have to do 4 of them. Replaced 4 bolts that were worn due to driving with worn bushes. Replaced all ball joints. Replaced the drives side swivel seal, new shocks in front and new steering dampner, that was just anal. I did this all myself having never worked on this type of car before. This stuff is a breeze, if you have a press at work.



Tony

Tony, mate. Great advice. A few questions.
1. How much mechanical experience do you have? I am bit handy but not much work on vehicles-

2. When you and others talk about how 'electriocal the Td5 is v 300Tdi, I gather the Td5 that it is Fuel injected electronically.. but all the stuff you talk about above has nothing to do with 'electrics' right? I know you said you have no experience with Td5's but sounds like you have **** load more of an idea than me!

Yeah, 330km, rusted out floors.. $13k, whats going on? Think the phrase your looking for "You're dreaming mate!"

Well, rang the 300Tdi guys yesterday upon landing at brisbane international and the car was sold, a while ago. beauty...

[tonic]

Mate I have limited mechanical experience. All the stuff I did was just nuts and bolts, nothing too hard. Ball joints have to be measured to know how far to screw back in is about the only thing to remember. There are measurments for this in the PDF manual a friend sent me.

In my late teens and early 20ies I did a lot with cars. Then you get to the point of doing what you do and paying someone else to do what they do I suppose. I could do timming belts etc using a book, but would now pay someone who could do it a fraction of the time I could while I make money doing what I do.

The td5 thing is more personal with me, I want to do this fender up for big family trips, Cape, Broome etc. With the right spares and tools I know I can probably always get to a town with a 300tdi. Would not know what to do with broken abs, efi etc.

Most modern cars have stuff you just cant fix in the bush. EG, a mate of mine had a sensor go on the accelorator pedal of Nissan Patrol. Six week wait from Japan for a new one or risk one from a wreckers, which he did and so did I when the same thing went on my wifes Rav 4.

You can still drive on the raod when these go wrong to get to a town, but if you get stuck in the bush where you need revs you are stuffed.

I plan to have the motor rebuilt, pull the boxes apart and service and install maxi drives over the next few years while my son gets old enough to appreciate the trips we have planned.

My personal view is spend 20k doing up a car you fix and make it new or spend $60, 80, 100 plus K on something new and do the trips before warranty finishes and all the electronics start palying up.

But that's jsut me.

Tony

[jimb]

Fellas. FYI, since you took the time to offer advice I though I should give some info.

Thanks for the advice. Just when I was ready to go for a TD5 and had some money available to borrow, the missus went and chose a 110 Puma as her lease car!

We took delivery a few weeks ago. Pretty excited! Feel a little spoilt though and part of me feels I have missed a learning opportunity by not getting a 300 or Td5 etc... But take what you get.

Cheer

Jim

[jimb]

Some pictures.

[isuzurover]

Well done!

Check out Bundalene's Puma rebuild thread. Lots of good info there if you plan to buy the vehicle at the end of the lease.

Sounds like you now have the opportunity to get another landie as a "project" vehicle ;)

[jimb]

Exactly what I thought!

Reckon I keep trawling looking for a 20+ yr defender and develop it, learn and probably end up loving more than the new puma.

Find myself constantly listening for problem noises, that I have NFI about but read enough posts about large problems with new pumas and paranoia sets in.

Loved recent thread about good piña stories though.

Thanks again for time advice.


---
I am here: Google Maps

[Sleepy]

Congrats jimb.
Use it, enjoy it. :D