HDC, Transmission and Suspension Failure Indicator

[WazzaACT]

Hi All

A short time after driving through water (even a puddle) I get HDC, suspension and transmission failure indications. If I stop the car and restart the problem goes away for a short period then comes back again. This can go on for 30 to 60 mins before the problem goes away.

Battery is new and the problem really seems to relate to water.

Any ideas please. This has gone on for some time and still no solution. It is ruining any 4WD fun.

[Graeme]

The suspension failure is most likely a result of a fault detected by the ABS ecu because the suspension ecu adopts a safe mode for any ABS reported fault. My guess would be a problem with a wheel speed sensor connection. Diagnostics would point to the cause.
Perhaps try driving only 1 side of the vehicle at a time through a puddle, or even just 1 wheel at a time if you can, to see if the cause can be related to a particular wheel.

[trevorj]

Hiya Wazza: sounds similar to mine over recent month (MY11,D4,3.0): on moderate corrugations I have had complete suspension and all HDC electrics etc shutdown - sits on bump stops and all heights and programs are off (no lights) , all warnings shouting. As with yours, stop car, shut engine off for a while, restart and all returns to OK. But very,very difficult on a long narrow sand track (Cape Peron), with other traffic cruising past with strange gawks....
Dealer diagnosed brake light switch fault (the only fault code that was listed), and has replaced. Beats me, but there is a lot of goss about sensors linked to braking systems via the brake light circuit, and replacements of the LR OEM with Fomoco ones. Is it a real fix? Maybe, dont know exactly what the dealer did, and havent been out again as yet.
Water? possible; I guess. Nothing would surprise me anymore.
Good luck

[bbyer]

Below is a link to a few files related to replacement of the brake light switch. If you have a pre 2008 three, probably replacement of the Land Rover marked switch with the official Land Rover new replacement part that has the FoMoCo logo moulded into the switch body is a good idea. Pretty much for certain, when you pull apart the removed switch, you will see carbon tracks off one set of contacts. The files have the new Land Rover part number as well as the Ford part number for the replacement switch.
DISCO3.CO.UK Photo Gallery - Brake Light Switch Replacement (http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5082)

While in this case, the problem may not be the switch, I agree that running one wheel at a time thru a puddle may be a good start towards finding the problem. As to replacing the brake light switch, if that is not the problem, it is only a matter of time until it is.

[NavyDiver]

2005 D3 SE
Just saw all yours and raise you a few :D with limited gears, hazard lights coming, central locking going nuts and other bits. :o restarting sometime gave me no engine ignition:eek: the engine did not turn off :eek::eek: or the key would not come out :eek::eek::eek:

Just did Oonandata track lake Eyre with no issues at all. We were relaxing with or rewarding the better half in the Barosa valley. Several inches of rain overnight and starting the next day saw my errors. - at least the camper trailer stayed dry :D

Restarting and several hard resets oddly after a hour of mucking about it all or mostly seemed to reslove itself and 800km back to Melbourne with only minor bugs. It is clearly an electrical fault, I have a new battery, new altenator recently (just checked them anyway and they look fine 12.7 with engine off and 14.8 running)

One fault is transmission - high range only- this is sticky. Going in for a 220,000km service Monday. Then a sparky is going over the whole truck- I will let you know the outcome.:)

[dangermousehouse]

WazzaACT

Sounds similar to what I had.

Fault was brake light switch. 40 bucks and about 10 mins to fit.

Take it to a dealer to read the faults or buy a fault code reader and do it yourself. Money well spent and pays for itself on its first use

I noticed the fault occurred when braking, so pretty conclusive.

[NavyDiver]

WazzaACT

Sounds similar to what I had.

Fault was brake light switch. 40 bucks and about 10 mins to fit.

Take it to a dealer to read the faults or buy a fault code reader and do it yourself. Money well spent and pays for itself on its first use

I noticed the fault occurred when braking, so pretty conclusive.

I will replace the brake controler assuming it hasn't already been. The UK site link was pretty convicing. I have had a few faults looked at but none have shown anything with the dealers computer hook up.:(

[bbyer]

I regard installing the new brake switch most important, but if for some reason, off spec tail and brake light bulbs are in the circuit, you can continue to have problems.

Off spec bulbs may appear to work OK in that the filaments illuminate as expected, however their resistance can be outside the specs that the on board computer is expecting to see.

Also, when installed, the filaments of the bulbs should all be standing vertical as they are stronger that way and when they burn out, do not tend to fall across the other filament. If a burned out filament falls across a good filament, that tends to be seen as a change of resistance to the computers or just some sort of short circuit.

The Land Rover spec bulbs tend to have better quality control so there is less chance of some of the above. The red of the plastic lenses is clear enough that you can see if the filaments are standing vertically.

[WhiteD3]

Wazza,

Had a similar issue with my 07 V6 SE. Turned out to be a a faulty earth wire in a cable loom in the engine bay (a not common fault known to LR) and a dodgy battery.

[NavyDiver]

Hi All

A short time after driving through water (even a puddle) I get HDC, suspension and transmission failure indications. If I stop the car and restart the problem goes away for a short period then comes back again. This can go on for 30 to 60 mins before the problem goes away.

Battery is new and the problem really seems to relate to water.

Any ideas please. This has gone on for some time and still no solution. It is ruining any 4WD fun.
How about droping a wheel off and hosing the area one wheel at a time?

Once you find which wheel is causing the fault then inspect it for the exposed wire or cracked insulation over the wire. There is only a few eletrical bits going to each wheel so have a good look and you might find it before you get through all four wheel. Tape or silcone anything looking even slightly suspect one bit at a time to see where the short is shouldn't hurt anything anyway. A good jack would beat using the cars one. A high lift if you have lifting points would make this very quick to do.

The D3 is a great 4wd. Mine is part submerine at times with out issues casued by water. If we give them a tought time I guess a wire or two will cuase us a drama sooner or hopefully later:)

If you get the back wheels off I would consider taking the disk brakes off and remove the cover to get any crud out of the parking brake (Drums on rear only) you need a hex driver to remove the cover. Do not blow it out due to "Asbestos" brakes shoes! Face mask, goves and damp rag might be a idea.

[Graeme]

Do not blow it out due to "Asbestos" brakes shoes!
I thought asbestos in brake material was outlawed many moons ago.

[bbyer]

I thought asbestos in brake material was outlawed many moons ago. The new "asbestos" ceramic and metallic replacement concoctions merely kill you in an environmentally safe manner; the only good dust is Outback dust and that is best found Back and Beyond.

[NavyDiver]

I thought asbestos in brake material was outlawed many moons ago.

2003 sorry:( still mask at least before blowing them out to be safe would be a good idea.

"Asbestos Free http://www.absauto.com.au/media/images/quality03.jpgThe big news in 2003 is the total removal of asbestos in Brake Linings. (Pads and Shoes). Asbestos has in the past been the single best product for friction control however we all know the dangers that have developed with the abuse and use of Asbestos in building and commercial applications.
While less of a worry, Asbestos in Brake Linings has thankfully been officially banned from Manufacture and supply in Australia from the end of 2003."

[WazzaACT]

Thanks to everybody who has contributed. I will do brake switch and bulbs. If that fails I will do the methodical fault testing with water.

[NavyDiver]

Just got mine back. ECU pins corroded, Ritters suggested the corrosion might have been contributed to by the battery I changed recently putting some acid in the air near the ECU in the battery box. New one installed after trying to clean the pins failed.

Few other minor tweaks service and a bill. Should be right now for another 220,000km. I had the brake light controler changed but it did not seem to be the problem as mentioned on the UK site. It could have been changed before I got it of course.

Checked about changing the diff oils? They mentioned by the book it might be 160,000km. Must get that done next time given my habit of using mine as a duck on river crossong, it might be better to do it a little more often than this I guess. Ritter mentioned the rear and centre diff can have the oils changed but not the front? This seems odd.:confused:

For three days work or stay at least the price was not unreasonable given the list of work completed. A 1974 rangie was in the shop given me a reasonble expectaion of taking my D3 past 500,000 and well beyond with a little TLC from time to time. Saw a D4 with 20 inch rims and know why I do not expect to evolve up unless Landrover brings out a non-hamstrung 4wd again.


2005 D3 SE
Just saw all yours and raise you a few :D with limited gears, hazard lights coming, central locking going nuts and other bits. :o restarting sometime gave me no engine ignition:eek: the engine did not turn off :eek::eek: or the key would not come out :eek::eek::eek:

Just did Oonandata track lake Eyre with no issues at all. We were relaxing with or rewarding the better half in the Barosa valley. Several inches of rain overnight and starting the next day saw my errors. - at least the camper trailer stayed dry :D

Restarting and several hard resets oddly after a hour of mucking about it all or mostly seemed to reslove itself and 800km back to Melbourne with only minor bugs. It is clearly an electrical fault, I have a new battery, new altenator recently (just checked them anyway and they look fine 12.7 with engine off and 14.8 running)

One fault is transmission - high range only- this is sticky. Going in for a 220,000km service Monday. Then a sparky is going over the whole truck- I will let you know the outcome.:)

[bbyer]

I had the brake light controller changed but it did not seem to be the problem as mentioned on the UK site. It could have been changed before I got it of course.

Ritter mentioned the rear and centre diff can have the oils changed but not the front? This seems odd.:confused: The newer brake light switches have moulded into the plastic on the exterior, the FoMoCo logo rather than the Land Rover oval.

My dealer changed the oil in my front differential when they did the oil change in the rear diff, (133,00 km, both per my request). I had done the transfer case, (91,000 km), during a previous service visit as well as the transmission at about 126,000 km. The timing and km was more to do with my wallet than any great plan other than I like to service a lot of the routine stuff between 100 and 150 thousand kms.

[NavyDiver]

Back to the drawing board. Brake switch changed, globes, new battery, new alternator, new ECU, checked and cleaned most earth points.

This morning suspension yellow error, then red with speed limit warning followed by a substantial loss of engine power with ECU error. ECU error stoped and power back on while I was still moving. Suspension error goes back to yellow.

Saw the suspension error come off and on twice more.

Oddly I just had her up on top of a high country mountain on Saturday night on a solo hunting trip. She preformed perfectly even after a four wheel bog so deep I had to climb out the passanger side door. Could not open drivers door. The two errors make me think this is still an eletrical fault. Where the fault is is proving very hard to find.:(

[Graeme]

Weakestlink,
Was the battery replaced before or after the problems started? If after, it may have a broken internal connection.

[NavyDiver]

thanks Graeme
Ritter changed both front and rear Air suspension crossover valves( tried rear first but errors still occured)

Engine (ECU) error code suggested me having a foot on the accelerator and brake at the same time. Not sure of this. I noted a error on my electric brake controler and wodner if this might have replaced my foot on brake for the error code. Will run it for a while seeing with and with out electiric brakes for a while.

[bbyer]

The link below relates to the North American LR3 brake controller hookup. You might find following the electrical drawings interesting as I certainly could see a problem with the brake controller wiring feeding back into the brake light circuit and creating false codes. I think some of the tail light wiring drawings in the link also show the D3 variation.

To make it worse, when the 3 senses that a trailer is hooked up to the vehicle, then changes in suspension height are supposed to be inhibited. As such, there is a logic tie in between the trailer circuits and the air suspension. That is why the trailer light on the dash is supposed to blink when a trailer signal light is on - to show that the trailer is correctly sensed. Also, I hope you do not have any LED light bulbs in your trailer lighting?

I think that you are on to something. The LR3 tail light and trailer wiring is pretty standard plus the brake controller wiring predetermined, but for Australia, I understand that there can be a lot of variety. That could be a problem even when no trailer is connected.

DISCO3.CO.UK Photo Gallery - NAS Trailer Socket Pin ID and Wire Colours (http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=4497)

[Trevlynn]

my 2008 TDV6 HSE did the same thing a few months ago. Warning lights, messages and went into limp home mode. When i came to a stop I lost all drive. Got out, locked it and waited afew minutes and problem was gone. Rang dealer next day and they indicated the usual brake switch issue as the most likely cause. When it went in and they plugged it into the computer it turned out to be the fuel pump which was replaced. It appears problem is fixed. Luckily it was still under warranty.

[NavyDiver]

Found the suspension error a few times over 1000km traveled over the last week with no trailer on. I had the brake control in. Un-plugged controler and 300km later had seen no more errors. Coming back saw the error occur again and have seen it a few more times with the controler unplugged so I can scratch that theory.
Ritters suggested the air compresor was working just not as effecently as the specs. The error if it goes to Red and with 30mph speed limit warning resolves it self back to yellow. New compressor might be needed.

[NavyDiver]

Re flashing the Suspension Control unit on my 2005 D3 SE worked a treat. Should have been done a long time ago. I wonder why it isn't done? If the coding is updated as much as it was from 2005 to 2010 as I have just discovered then I would have thought this is a must for all D3 and after a while D4 owners as well.

How can we tell if new codes are developed by LD for our trucks?
How many Control units do we have? Height, E.C.U., 4WD options at a guess.

All my issues are now fixed. Going to get the above list answered next time it is in the shop in another 10k km. I wonder if I had had the re-flash before the new compressor was fited if the new one would have been needed. It was pumping a little slowly so I am happy to have it new now.