19" wheels off-road - wise?

[af3556]

I'm looking at a D3 that has been kitted out with 19" wheels. This is at a dealer, apparently the car arrived at their door with stock but worn 18" treads, and they had the 19" set lying around (!?) so fitted them instead of replacing the existing rubber.

Question is, how (in?)appropriate are these low-profile tyres to any kind of offroad activity? I presume the lower the profile the tyres, the lower the offroad utility/ability, reliability, selection and the higher the replacement cost?

Would you:
a) keep the 19" wheels (maybe invest in a stupidly big bass speaker and some undercar lighting and really impress the boyz'n'da'hood)
b) ask the dealer to switch the 19's back to the 18's, and replace the tyres yourself (and ask for $ to be knocked off the price?)
c) take the 19's as delivered from the dealer and sell/swap 'em (here, ebay, etc?)

[sheerluck]

Ooh, ooh ooh! Option A, Option A!!

Nothing I like better than the sound of <doof><doof><doof> as some cap wearing, dyed haired, vacant expressioned donkey goes driving past.

Would impress me, no end:angel:

Otherwise, I'd go option C.

[oldsalt]

Option C

[Disco4SE]

The 19" are good for the road. I have Pirelli ATR's fitted to mine.
As far as off road, I managed to chip a rim on a Landrover training day only a few months after my purchase.
I do have a second set of second hand 19" rims with MTR's that I use off road.
I would keep the 18" wheels and do a deal with the stealer, depending on how good the 19" look of course.
I had no choice with the D4 3.0Lt.

Cheers, Craig

[DiscoWeb]

OR

Option D. Take both the 19 and get them to throw the 18 inch rims in for $0. Throw a set of muddies on the 18s and have the best of both world !!

also have you checked the size of the spare as you may need to hunt around for an extra 18 inch rim (or 19in if they have been really lazy) but that should not be too hard.

Plenty of good 18 in mud or AT tyres around.

George

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Ooh, ooh ooh! Option A, Option A!!

Nothing I like better than the sound of <doof><doof><doof> as some cap wearing, dyed haired, vacant expressioned donkey goes driving past.

Would impress me, no end:angel:

Otherwise, I'd go option C.Not enough bling for a doof doof machine around my way.

Ask the dealer for option "D" new 265/25 R24s and you'll be the envy of everyone, remember to drag your knuckles along the pavement as you hang your arm out the window.

[scarry]

Option E....ditch them all & get them to find a set of 17's.

Now you will have no probs with the off rd stuff:)

[connock]

Im with scarry, I sold my 18s to get 17s . Tyres are a lot cheaper and a lot more choices too. Unless it really is to be a toorak tracktor go for Lotz-A-Landies idea

connock

[Celtoid]

Or you could inject a little bit of reality and ask yourself what sort of off-roading you intend to tackle.....:)

I've got abrasions, scratches and chips all over my wheels well beyond the tyre region.....get deep in sand......you'll get abrasions, get into soft stuff with gravel etc.....you'll get chips and scratches.....most of the big chips on mine have occurred just driving around town and stuff flicked up on gravel roads.....I don't think that wee bit of extra rubber will protect you from much. The finish on the D4 wheels is pretty soft (donno about the D3's)...once chipped it flakes pretty easily but I understand that it's easy to get them recoated (may not be cheap)....but I'm more worried about the masses of scratches on the body I get from branches and lantana. So where are you going off-road....what's the terrain?

Are you asking will a 19" stop you getting there?.....will an 18, will a 17?......I guess there is a cut off for them all...what are you intending doing? There are threads on this site that suggest you'd be in the 20 or 30% range of terrain (or owners) to get 'limited' by 19s.

However, that said....if you can wangle it.....take both....LOL!!! Let one set get flogged and keep the shiney ones for resale....after you respray the body.....;)

Cheers,

Kev

[connock]

Sorry Celtoid there not scratches when off road they are bush signatures.

connok

[af3556]

I'm not expecting serious offroading - aim would be to avoid accumulating "signatures" :-). I'm more concerned about the reliability of the tyre, don't want something that's going to pop the moment it sees a rock, and then be unrepairable and cost me a bomb to replace.

[Celtoid]

I'm not expecting serious offroading - aim would be to avoid accumulating "signatures" :-). I'm more concerned about the reliability of the tyre, don't want something that's going to pop the moment it sees a rock, and then be unrepairable and cost me a bomb to replace.

Definately a valid concern,

I've just been down that road (no pun intended :)). I had the standard 19" Wranglers on for over a year and although I didn't do anything very taxing by some standards, had been quite impressed by how well they handled gravel/light mud tracks with a fair smattering of rocks and washouts, regardless of incline. Of course the TC helps heaps. Also had them on the beach lots of times with no issues. In thick mud....well, they suck! On the road they were quiet and gripped well in both wet and dry.

Once I got to 40% + wear the story changed. I'm certain they were noisier and the fact that I got rocks through the tread on two tyres in two days would indicate that they need the full tread depth for max strength....both tyres required a serious plug. The issue with the D3/4/RRS is the fact that they 'hide' tyre deflations due to their air suspension....I destroyed a repairable tyre, 'cause I didn't feel it deflate.

I changed to Perelli ATRs and then noticed that the Wranglers actually 'wobble' a fair bit on the road. The Scorpions are just as good on the road traction wise but feel more rigid, less flex. In the mud, even though it is not supposed to be their forte, they pooh all over the Wranglers. I've clipped a few kerbs, etc and there hasn't even been a mark....however my wife managed to tear the side-wall out of one (only a few weeks old) just parking next to a building site....LOL!!! A reinforced concrete rod will do that....:mad:

I guess the wind up is....I don't know what tyres you are running on the 19s" but doubt that they are overly soft. If they are straight road tyres, that will obviously affect your off-road travel, more on the traction side though.

On the plus side...... I had a D4 with 18's as a loner and my 19's drive so much better on the road.....really affects the tightness/performance of the ride.

Obviously the range of tyres and cost savings for the 18" ers should be considered too. Tougher tyres are harder to get in a 19....but they aren't too bad.

Scratches.....sorry, bush signatures :), are probably gonna happen regardless of size...especially as there is bugger all rubber diff between the 18 and 19 in real terms.

Hope this helps,

Kev.

[DiscoWeb]

I'm not expecting serious offroading - aim would be to avoid accumulating "signatures" :-). I'm more concerned about the reliability of the tyre, don't want something that's going to pop the moment it sees a rock, and then be unrepairable and cost me a bomb to replace.

af3556,

For the first 30,000 km of driving my D3 I had continental Cross Contact UHP (18in) listed as 100% road tyres. I took them off road, drove around the Vic High Country, Mt Walker and Newnes plenty of times.

I drove conservatively and tried to take lines that avoided sharp rocks and simply slowed down off road but I was really surprised how well they went, not one puncture. The Vic High Country cut the tread up a bit but other than that they were fine. I definitely shortened their life by using them off road but I was OK with that.

I replaced them with an AT tyre and have more confident with them off road and they offer better traction when it gets a bit slippery etc. But if you are careful the 19s will be fine off road, particularly as it sounds as if you are note going to be doing too much harsh stuff.

I believe the place most people get concerned is doing a outback trip where the dirt and gravel roads can be really harsh on tyres. Getting a replacement 19 in out there is both a major problem and very very expensive. But if that is not on the agenda I would not be too worried about 19's v's 18's.

George

[ADMIRAL]

Just ordered a set of 17" BB6 rims. The move opens up the availability of a large range of AT and LT tyres. I haven't decided on the tyres yet, or even the type, AT, muddie, etc.

[jonesfam]

My 5 X BB6 17" Wheels fitted with Cooper A/T3 tyres should be here Thursday. I have waited 8 weeks for these so I'm just slightly looking forward to them.
The problems I had with both the Wrangler & Conti 19's have been stone fractures mainly in the side wall.
The Coopers will be my 3rd set of 5 tyres in 2 years. A very expensive, frustrating & disappointing exercise. I have concluded that the only thing that lets the D3 down are those Bl00dy 19" wheels tyres!
I don't do hard core off roading, mainly just gravel roads & tracks with some reasonably gentle off the beaten track.
It frustrates me that LR put such tyres on such a great car.
So I will certainly let you know if the 17" don't turn out to be the solution to, what I see as, the wonderful D3's only real let down.
Jonesfam

[scarry]

It frustrates me that LR put such tyres on such a great car.



EXACTLY

This is the main reason there is not a D4 3.0l in our garage.............

There is not much worse than having tyre problems on trips,particularly into remote areas:(

And yes i could go for the 2.7l,& fit it with 17's,but i really want the 3.0l

[connock]

yep 18s and bigger are realy only for the black top, which they are great for, but dont venture to far beyond. On a dirt road alone and hit a pot hole and you will do a rim not to mention the tyres you do inbetween. Lets face it though 95% of 4x4s dont go off road , this is not a bad thing though, imagine if there were 100% off road the track closures would be herrific.
I still can not understand why people buy two gear boxes and two diffs and dont use them, or am I missing something

connock

[Owl]

I still can not understand why people buy two gear boxes and two diffs and dont use them, or am I missing something

connock

I'm happy for people to be buying 2 gearboxex and 2 diffs without any intention of using them - it makes the ones I buy affordable. Imagine the design, development and tooling costs the manufacturer would have to pass on if they were only to be fitted to the few vehicles that are likely to ever use them!

[gghaggis]

Hmm

I don't believe your generalisation holds, at least not for the 18" rims.
Although I've certainly damaged my 19" rims and tyres when I had them, I've never damaged the 18" alloys I sell - and I don't exactly hold back ....

In the year I've had them I've:

- lead12 full day off-road classes (sand/hills/rock climbs)
- lead 2 advanced 4WDing classes (mud/rock climbs)
- run the CSR, Cape Levique, Gibb River, Israelite Bay

- never damaged a rim and had a grand total of 1 puncture.

Cheers,

Gordon

[mervwho]

I still have a couple of original 3.0ltr 19's available if you are after a second spare..not cheap but available..

[af3556]

Thanks for the replies, all.

Definitely sold on avoiding 19" wheels; now I just need to convince the dealer that by putting these wheels on he's lowered the value I put on the vehicle :-)

Ben

[connock]

Sorry if I upset any one with my " generalisation" ( not my intention ) But Im sure on club events there would be plenty of spares around. Try getting a 18" or bigger at Ilkurlka , not going to happen. Only one truck in and out per month, IF they need to more fuel (diesal only) and supplies I for one would not risk it. gghaggis hope your good luck keeps going sounds like you are having a great run. :)

connock

[Disco4SE]

It appears that the modern day 4WD's are heading down the 18" to 20" path. As they do, the tyre companies will accomodate.
I have had my D4 3.0 almost two years now and have noticed that there is now a wider choice of tyres and the prices are better.
From what I hear from others, the 19" and 20" are a better tyre for handling and towing. We do spend most of our time on the black stuff.
Can't speak for the 18" as I havent had them.

Cheers, Craig

[TerryO]

I have read with interest that having 20's on a D3/4 makes them handle so much better and I'm sure they do, but I'd really like to get the chance to find out exactly how much better some day compared to D3 fitted with decent shocks.

After fitting the Koni's to our D3 the way it handled on 18's dramatically improved for the better. Even with the 265x60x18 AT3's fitted the handling is great and I bet AT3's are not in genral described as a good handling H/T tyre. Even just because of their larger then standard size, let alone the thread pattern. Still the D3 handles incredibly well at any speed on nearly any surface even when driven agressively.

So as I see it we now have the best of both worlds which is truely a surprise, a really good handling D3 that also has reasonable large and agressive A/T tyres. Sure the 20's look great but I personally would not want them just because of how much they cost to replace when they wear out.

If anything because of how good it handles on the AT3's I went the other way and recently brought off of PCH his BB6 17's with STT's fitted. Funnily enough I now see the AT3 A/T's as my good handling highway tyres, I'm sure this would not be the case if I still had standard shocks though.

cheers,
Terry

[Celtoid]

Hmm

I don't believe your generalisation holds, at least not for the 18" rims.
Although I've certainly damaged my 19" rims and tyres when I had them, I've never damaged the 18" alloys I sell - and I don't exactly hold back ....

In the year I've had them I've:

- lead12 full day off-road classes (sand/hills/rock climbs)
- lead 2 advanced 4WDing classes (mud/rock climbs)
- run the CSR, Cape Levique, Gibb River, Israelite Bay

- never damaged a rim and had a grand total of 1 puncture.

Cheers,

Gordon

Hey Gordon,

Can I ask for more clarification pls? The damage to the 19" wheels was caused why?.....their size or the fact that the alloy is soft?

Obviously there is less rubber between rim and road/track, which will leave them prone if the tyre gets pinched or you 'wade' through gravel, etc but I've got chips all over my LR wheels and quite a few are so close to the axle, it wouldn't have mattered if I was running 16"s. They seem to chip and flake pretty easily.

Just wondering...

Cheers,

Kev.

[Celtoid]

I have read with interest that having 20's on a D3/4 makes them handle so much better and I'm sure they do, but I'd really like to get the chance to find out exactly how much better some day compared to D3 fitted with decent shocks.

After fitting the Koni's to our D3 the way it handled on 18's dramatically improved for the better. Even with the 265x60x18 AT3's fitted the handling is great and I bet AT3's are not in genral described as a good handling H/T tyre. Even just because of their larger then standard size, let alone the thread pattern. Still the D3 handles incredibly well at any speed on nearly any surface even when driven agressively.

So as I see it we now have the best of both worlds which is truely a surprise, a really good handling D3 that also has reasonable large and agressive A/T tyres. Sure the 20's look great but I personally would not want them just because of how much they cost to replace when they wear out.

If anything because of how good it handles on the AT3's I went the other way and recently brought off of PCH his BB6 17's with STT's fitted. Funnily enough I now see the AT3 A/T's as my good handling highway tyres, I'm sure this would not be the case if I still had standard shocks though.

cheers,
Terry

Hey Terry,

Great to hear that you are chuffed with the new shocks. Do you know anybody locally that you could swap wheels with...for a trial? I think you'd find that the same tyre type but with less side wall would create a more direct ride. The whole race car world probably stands as an example.

But of course, with every pro, there is a con....the ride gets stiffer as the sidewall decreases. Guess it's a matter of preferance.

Drop in the next time you're in town...we'll give it a whirl! :)

Cheers,

Kev.

[gghaggis]

Hey Gordon,

Can I ask for more clarification pls? The damage to the 19" wheels was caused why?.....their size or the fact that the alloy is soft?



They do seem to be quite soft - in combination with being that close to the road surface, and the fact that the spokes stand proud of the outer rim, all 4 rims have damage to the alloy.

Cheers,

Gordon

[TerryO]

Hey Terry,

Great to hear that you are chuffed with the new shocks. Do you know anybody locally that you could swap wheels with...for a trial? I think you'd find that the same tyre type but with less side wall would create a more direct ride. The whole race car world probably stands as an example.

But of course, with every pro, there is a con....the ride gets stiffer as the sidewall decreases. Guess it's a matter of preferance.

Drop in the next time you're in town...we'll give it a whirl! :)

Cheers,

Kev.


Thanks for the offer Kev, I'll take you up on it when I'm next in Brisbane for work, which could be quite soon.

cheers,
Terry

[PaulGOz]

I have a D4 2.7L with 265/65x17 D694s and the stock 255/60x18 Wranglers. Having swapped between these two sets I notice that the car feels a bit quicker off the mark with the 18s. I am not sure whether this is due to the slight size variance or whether it is to do with the weight of the total wheel/tyre combo I only notice it immediately after the swap. As for handling i think there is more grip on the bitumen with the 18s but it is very marginal and I am not pushing the D4 that hard that the extra grip is actually required wet or dry. There is also a slight noise difference but that also is very marginal. I think the differences are that small that it is probably possibel to experience the same difference between the same size tyre from two different manufacturers.

Having said that I recently drove a D4 with 19 inch wheels and it felt much more direct in the steering i.e it responded more readily to steering inputs and i put this down to the smaller sidewall. If only I could find myself a set of cheap 19 inch rims and get the other half on the rattle gun I too could ponder which boots I will wear each morning.

[connock]

Hi PaulGOz
The 18s will feel slightly quicker off the line because they are 1.7% smaller tire . The 17s are 388.2mm and the 18s are 381.6mm Radius. I am a bit supprised that such a little is noticable tho :)

connock

[Celtoid]

Thanks for the offer Kev, I'll take you up on it when I'm next in Brisbane for work, which could be quite soon.

cheers,
Terry

Damn, I was hoping you were too far away....LOL!!!

No, do that....PM me when you are next coming to town and we'll sort something out. :)

Cheers,

Kev.

[TerryO]

Damn, I was hoping you were too far away....LOL!!!

No, do that....PM me when you are next coming to town and we'll sort something out. :)

Cheers,

Kev.



I thought that might be the case Kev ...I tell you what when your next in Goulburn I'll give you a drive of my D1 in exchange ;)

cheers,
Terry

[Celtoid]

I thought that might be the case Kev ...I tell you what when your next in Goulburn I'll give you a drive of my D1 in exchange ;)

cheers,
Terry

Sounds like a fair exchange.....:)

Seriously, give me a yell, It'd be good to catch up with somebody that I've 'talked' to often on the forum.....I take it your not allergic to beer, wine or single malt?

[DiscoWeb]

Kev,

We might all come to Brisbane to test our allergies is that is on offer !

George.

[Celtoid]

Kev,

We might all come to Brisbane to test our allergies is that is on offer !

George.

LOL....did I mention I'm Scottish?....it ain't gonna be free.....;)

[Greg J]

I had the 19's and traded them in for 18's because there was a better selection in the 18 inch rim size. See tire size chart by rim size here: LR3 Tire Size Chart (http://johnsonrods.com/johnson_rods_2_004.htm)
The 18 inch rim will give you more sidewall and more protection from rim damage and pinch flats that are more common with 19's. I use the Good Year MTR 275-65-18 and find them to be very reliable and excellent off road.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/510.jpg