Tigerz11 12,000 vs Warn High-mount on D2

[clubagreenie]

I currently have the Tigerz mounted in a custom cradle behind a custom tube bar.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/06/1005.jpg

I also just picked up a high mount warn at a reasonable price, considering it needs new motor.

I like the Tigerz, has synthetic rope, high capacity, mounts direct to chassis behind the bar, more importantly behind the crush cans so compatible. Also the tube bar is mounted to the steel backing of the original plastic and the engineer is fine with that. Pros - it's there, working and sits well back.

The Warn is lower capacity but has line speed and name behind it,
Pros - It's a warn High-mount, Cons - needs rope, new mount and bar work, may sit slightly further forward.

Whichever way I go I know I'll be able to sell off the other (already have offers for both). Whats everyones opinion of which way to go? The scope or cost of work isn't really the issue, it's more just a "always wanted a" and "everyone seems to aspire to" a high-mount.

[Loubrey]

The setup you've got there is in my opinion perfect.

If you are going to do competitions and you're going to winch 20 times in the same day and against the clock, it might be worth butchering the front of the car to fit the Warn. Recreational/occasional off-roaders (as I would class myself) needs a winch maybe a half dozen times a year, if that. For that amount of winch usage, the integrity of your airbag system is most probably more important and a quick check on the winch prior to setting off for the day will give you piece of mind that it'll work if you need it.

There is a lot of "checkbook sportsmen" out there that love spending money to look the part and I always smile to myself when you see a 4x4 lineup on a day out and spotting the name brand winches without the wire rope even being bedded in and not a scratch on the fairhead!

As always, remains your choice... :D

[Redback]

The setup you've got there is in my opinion perfect.

If you are going to do competitions and you're going to winch 20 times in the same day and against the clock, it might be worth butchering the front of the car to fit the Warn. Recreational/occasional off-roaders (as I would class myself) needs a winch maybe a half dozen times a year, if that. For that amount of winch usage, the integrity of your airbag system is most probably more important and a quick check on the winch prior to setting off for the day will give you piece of mind that it'll work if you need it.

There is a lot of "checkbook sportsmen" out there that love spending money to look the part and I always smile to myself when you see a 4x4 lineup on a day out and spotting the name brand winches without the wire rope even being bedded in and not a scratch on the fairhead!

As always, remains your choice... :D

X2;)

[roverfan]

Id never use anything but a warn, Tigerz are cheap chinese crap and wouldnt let it near my car

[Drover]

Id never use anything but a warn, Tigerz are cheap chinese crap and wouldnt let it near my car

Is this the same roverfan who isn't even sure if he has bought the right vehicle ? ? ?

[clubagreenie]

I'm really happy with the Tigerz, more so with the job I did getting it to fit w/out needing engineering. On pure pulling power it out pulled my fathers 8HP hi-mount. But did pull more current and was slower.

Only looking at the warn as it would get further modded (2 x 8HP's) etc. But then I can do a lot more that I need to and afford to do if I sell the Warn.

[roverfan]

Is this the same roverfan who isn't even sure if he has bought the right vehicle ? ? ?

Yeah, but ive had plenty of off road toys before :)

Im just a warn fanboy dont hate :angel:

[roverfan]

Clubagreenie, go a gigglepin conversion you know you want to

[LowRanger]

Justin

Stay with what you have,it is already fitted and all the hard work is done.The winch you have,you are happy with its performance for your application.Fitting the Warn,just for the sake of fitting it,and saying that you have a Warn is superfluous to your needs in my opinion.
The winch you have,already out pulls the Warn,so why go in retrograde motion?The Warn may be quicker,but unless you are in a competition,then the few extra seconds it takes isn't going to make a lot of difference in real world scenarios.
You could probably sell the Warn,and buy another new winch the same as you have and buy new Dynamica rope and winch extension and still have money for other toys.

Wayne

[clubagreenie]

Sell the warn, replace front t/shaft, muffler (though Yorkies come through there) buy shocks, brake lines and abs extensions.

[isuzutoo-eh]

Sell the warn, replace front t/shaft, muffler (though Yorkies come through there) buy shocks, brake lines and abs extensions.

Sounds smart to me :cool:

[rovercare]

High mounts are a better winch by nature of design, less complex geartrain and oil filled, far superior winch

[Slunnie]

I'd keep the warn also. Its a high quality winch that will always work when you need it, and it will be operating many many years after the other one has quit - there is a good reason for these things having a great resale value with a used and broken one being worth more than a new working Tigerz11. If the motor on it is blown, the 4.6 and 6hp replacements are easy to get and do fit straight on - a great upgrade over the 2hp. 6hp is pushing the friendship without internal upgrades. You can do all of the upgrades, but in reality.... solinoids is all that you'd bother with. The packaging as you know is the big problem with fitting the Warn high mount, but if your winch is mounted in an airbag friendly way, the hi-mount will do the same.

Comparing a Tigerz11 to a Warn hi mount is like comparing a Tata 4wd truck to a Land Rover Defender.

This is a Warn hi mount with a 6hp pulling a pretty heavy Defender.

Tusker on the winch - YouTube

[LowRanger]

For non competition use,I fail to see why anyone would want to retrograde from a 1200lb to a 9000lb winch,and for all the Warn stalwarts,they are not that strong and there are lots of broken Hi mounts around.The major advantage that they have is that they have a fast line speed,and that is what is required for competition use.
For the cost factors involved in upgrading the Hi mount you could purchase another winch the same as you have,and despite what all the nay saying Warn owners try and tell people,if you keep your Low mount serviced,it will be reliable and work when required,and will have a higher load rating than the Hi mount,and will draw less current,and will restrict the air flow a lot less to the radiator,a very important factor on a lot of vehicles,especially Land Rovers.
And as far as doing a Gigglepin conversion,using the motoring analogy used previously,that would be like comparing a standard Holden Commodore to a V8 supercar that is racing at Bathurst this weekend.The only thing they have in common,is the shape.

Wayne

[Slunnie]

There are a lot of broken everytype of winches around, and thats probably because almost nobody services them in reality until they are broken.

Remember, chinese junk vs a well designed, long term, reliable and powerful winch. :D

[rovercare]

For non competition use,I fail to see why anyone would want to retrograde from a 1200lb to a 9000lb winch,and for all the Warn stalwarts,they are not that strong and there are lots of broken Hi mounts around.The major advantage that they have is that they have a fast line speed,and that is what is required for competition use.
For the cost factors involved in upgrading the Hi mount you could purchase another winch the same as you have,and despite what all the nay saying Warn owners try and tell people,if you keep your Low mount serviced,it will be reliable and work when required,and will have a higher load rating than the Hi mount,and will draw less current,and will restrict the air flow a lot less to the radiator,a very important factor on a lot of vehicles,especially Land Rovers.
And as far as doing a Gigglepin conversion,using the motoring analogy used previously,that would be like comparing a standard Holden Commodore to a V8 supercar that is racing at Bathurst this weekend.The only thing they have in common,is the shape.

Wayne

I take it your justifying your own winch? You have a cheapy?

High mounts actually pull substantially slower under load unless upgraded to 6hp

They are just far more reliable than any Chinese winch, as I said, by design, if left unserviced and unloved, there is a far greater chance of an 8274 surviving...... I say all this compared to all low mounts, just the cheaper jobs are worse again

Most cheap jobs will do the average punter, but they fail alot, under anything with large load, use a snatch block, they will pull till self destruction

But seeing as it's a choice between cheap Chinese winch and the rolls Royce of electric winch......

[roverfan]

I just can't grasp how any sane person can think a china warn rip off is anywhere near as good or reliable as a proven warn hi mount.

My old hi mount with a 6hp motor served me for over 10 years before I sold it, for the same amount it cost me originally. It was used heavily to pull vehicles up sheer faces and over boulders. Never missed a beat and was serviced once in that whole time. I'd like to see a tigerz stand up to the same punishment and last as long.

If I have to rely on a winch to get me home one day, I'll take a proven warn thanks. Tigers belong on a great wall not a real off roader.

[clubagreenie]

So here's a question. The original 2.xHP warn was rate to 8000lb. The 4HP was rated to 8000lb. The 6HP was rated to 8000lb. Where's the limiting factor here, the larger motor will draw less current for same effort yes? Or alternately same current for more effort?

The only thing thats keeping me looking at the warn is known reliability, I'll go further and harder with it. With the Tigerz I might subconsciously limit myself and avoid a situation despite the higher rating.

As for Tigerz belonging on a great wall. There's many winches I'd put below the Tigerz. In fact after using, owning and having mine apart If I was buying a winch in that price range they would be my choice despite the latest winch "test" in your favorite retailer sponsored 4WD magazine.

[Slunnie]

Thats what the winch is labelled. This is a comment from Bush65 from May 2007:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/37492-warn-high-mount.html#post530965


All warn high mount winches were designated 8000 lb. But, in reasonable mechanical/electrical condition, they will out pull any 9500 lb electric winch.


I'm pretty sure they also carry more line.

Also, I'm pretty sure the only real difference between the Warn9000lb and the Warn9500lb is the motor, going from 4.6hp to 6hp, gearing etc is the same, so you would expect increases when going from the 2hp 8000lb to the 6hp.

[LowRanger]

There are a lot of broken everytype of winches around, and thats probably because almost nobody services them in reality until they are broken.

Remember, chinese junk vs a well designed, long term, reliable and powerful winch. :D

Simon
I agree,there are a lot of broken winches of all descriptions out there,and the main problem is not servicing them!!
A lot of assumption there!! You are stating that one winch is JUNK,where there are a lot of people using "Junk" in day to day use without any problems.

And as far as reliable goes,you obviously haven't been let down by the very poor solenoid pack that comes with this supposedly premium product!!

Wayne

[Psimpson7]

So here's a question. The original 2.xHP warn was rate to 8000lb. The 4HP was rated to 8000lb. The 6HP was rated to 8000lb. Where's the limiting factor here, the larger motor will draw less current for same effort yes? Or alternately same current for more effort?

.

They never officially released a 6hp highmount did they? (not counting the 250 limited edition 8274-60 as thats not really a production version - and for that they didnt release a load capacity that i could find)

4.6 was the highest I believe from the point that the 8274-50 was released.

I would keep what you have. Dont assume that means that I think the Tiger is anywhere near as good tho. just that its already there and requires no work.

[LowRanger]

I take it your justifying your own winch? You have a cheapy?

High mounts actually pull substantially slower under load unless upgraded to 6hp

They are just far more reliable than any Chinese winch, as I said, by design, if left unserviced and unloved, there is a far greater chance of an 8274 surviving...... I say all this compared to all low mounts, just the cheaper jobs are worse again

Most cheap jobs will do the average punter, but they fail alot, under anything with large load, use a snatch block, they will pull till self destruction

But seeing as it's a choice between cheap Chinese winch and the rolls Royce of electric winch......

Unfortunately I am not trying to justify anything,just stating facts.And no I don't own a Tigerz11 winch.
I would like to see the factual figures that state where the 8274 is actually more reliable?
People have been making statements about these winches since they first came on the market.Having owned 2 of these winches in the early days,they never compared well against my Ramsey for pure pulling power.

And as far as comparing winches,Justin's original question was comparing a 12,000lb lowmount to the 8,000lb Himount,any way you look at it,no contest,unless a lot of money is spent on upgrading the Himount.

Wayne

[Slunnie]

Simon
I agree,there are a lot of broken winches of all descriptions out there,and the main problem is not servicing them!!
A lot of assumption there!! You are stating that one winch is JUNK,where there are a lot of people using "Junk" in day to day use without any problems.

And as far as reliable goes,you obviously haven't been let down by the very poor solenoid pack that comes with this supposedly premium product!!

Wayne
The VW Beetle was also the most sold car without significant change, outsold only by the Corolla. That doesn't make a VW Beetle a good or a safe car. You pay your money and you make your choice.

I replaced my Warn solinoids with Tigerz11 solinoids funnily enough.

[clubagreenie]

I disagree. The Beetles perfectly safe as long as we're all in our Land Rovers.

Have to agree on replacing the warn solenoids with the newest Tigers (Thompson) ones. On paper at least they out rate the warns, though only time will tell. And it's time that warn has on it's side versus the relatively recent development of the cheaper and budget levels of winches (which is probably the best way to break it up. Gigglepin, warn, quality cheaper units and then chinese ebay budget units. Though with good initial care and ongoing maintenance the Chinese ones seem to be doing well for some.

[Slunnie]

I am surprised that they and probably all manufacturers haven't moved towards the Albright/Tigerz11 type solinoids. Surely they're also cheaper to manufacture than a set of solinoids.

[blitz]

I had a high mount on my 2 door RR abused the proverbial out of it, never serviced it apart from solinoids and it never let me down in ten years of hammering.

My landrover / warn 9500lb low mount winch is pulled apart on my work bench soaking in oil will see how clean I can get it, how much damage it has and if it is worth rebuilding. ok had it about the same amount of time BUT only used it a couple of times a year max as opposed to a couple times a weekend for the ten years on the RR - (I used to see how far I could go before I got stuck and thought it was fun getting stuck, now I know, I dont do it anymore, at least not on purpose)

In another post I am thinking of putting it on the back and a high mount on the front if I can repair it without spending $$ on it.

[Yorkie]

just stick with your tigerz and sell the warn. it would need a fair amount of work to get a highmount into that bar of yours so why bother unless you plan to take part in some comps in the near future.
and then put the cash towards the front shaft and locker fund... :D

[LowRanger]

I am surprised that they and probably all manufacturers haven't moved towards the Albright/Tigerz11 type solinoids. Surely they're also cheaper to manufacture than a set of solinoids.

Simon
I am also amazed that they haven't all gone to the Albright type solenoids,but like a lot of things seen through rose coloured glasses,what some perceive as doing the job,they are not prepared to move with the times.

Wayne

[rovercare]

Unfortunately I am not trying to justify anything,just stating facts.And no I don't own a Tigerz11 winch.
I would like to see the factual figures that state where the 8274 is actually more reliable?
People have been making statements about these winches since they first came on the market.Having owned 2 of these winches in the early days,they never compared well against my Ramsey for pure pulling power.

And as far as comparing winches,Justin's original question was comparing a 12,000lb lowmount to the 8,000lb Himount,any way you look at it,no contest,unless a lot of money is spent on upgrading the Himount.

Wayne

Factual figures? 10 years in the bush ruining 4wds is hard for me to put down on the interweb

Your right, no competition, your comparing a winch which sells second hand in almost any form for the same price as a good Chinese winch, simple. The warn will still be pulling you out when the cheap job imploded

Completely different winches to your worm driven Ramsay.......and 1/10th the weight

If he was buying new, 800ish bucks vs close to 3k it's a bit different, but anyhow

Simple question, have you had both types apart?

Oh it's only an lr, 1mm cutting discs on a 5" should come in the spares kit from new, should only need a grill trim

[clubagreenie]

Actually, I've had it apart. I could get very funky and I can fit it behind the grill and at the same time I've worked out a "Saudi Grill" mod to either the std grill and add mesh or to make a new alloy surround and mesh. Is definitely going to work out cheaper than buying the genuine grill. Any interest for a D1/2 aftermarket grill?

[LowRanger]

Factual figures? 10 years in the bush ruining 4wds is hard for me to put down on the interweb
well you have a little way to go then if you have only been doing it for 10 years,and only your personal opinion,as opposed to facts!!

Your right, no competition, your comparing a winch which sells second hand in almost any form for the same price as a good Chinese winch, simple. The warn will still be pulling you out when the cheap job imploded
Again mere speculation on your part,I have seen many 8274's fail in the most inoportune places.

Completely different winches to your worm driven Ramsay.......and 1/10th the weight
How come it is ok for you to compare a Hi Mount to a Chinese Low mount,but when I present another option it isn't Ok?

If he was buying new, 800ish bucks vs close to 3k it's a bit different, but anyhow
Price isn't everything,the price of 8274's is inflated in Aust. because they are popular in winch challenge events,where they often fail!!
If price was everything,we would all be driving something from Japan:eek:

Simple question, have you had both types apart?
The answer is I have owned 2 8274's over many years and have been let down in the rough by them,and I haven't pulled a Tigerz11 winch apart,I have seen one pulled apart.And I don't own one or have any connection to them.

Oh it's only an lr, 1mm cutting discs on a 5" should come in the spares kit from new, should only need a grill trim


Wayne

[Psimpson7]

I am surprised that they and probably all manufacturers haven't moved towards the Albright/Tigerz11 type solinoids. Surely they're also cheaper to manufacture than a set of solinoids.

There is a Warn spec Albright Simon, but it is not cheap:

Warn Contactor (http://www.devon4x4.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=11144&category_id=83&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=14)

from memory it is better than the genuine std albrights

[rovercare]

Wayne, I can't quote that but anyhow, I spent most of that wrecking 4wd's up the bush, abusing everything getting stuck etc, hardly mild touring and alot of winching

I can compare a high mount with a chinese low mount, as opposed to a Ramsay, because, forgive me if I'm wrong, the thread title is in regards to a........high mount vs chinese low mount? not a ramsay

I belive the same in regards to all low mounts however, the 8274...not 8272 which you keep stating? is still superior in its desing

The price difference is the same in the states as far as Im aware, not just inflated aus price

And if price was everything we'd drive something from Japan?........pretty sure a range rover is hardly cheap new these days




Also, please present your "facts" as opposed to personal opinion

[isuzutoo-eh]

Time for a hijack. Where can I buy a chinese knock off of a hi mount?

[clubagreenie]

I would call it warn vs chinese, I put the Tigerz at the cheaper good range rather than clumping all the non warn stuff together.

[Slunnie]

There is a Warn spec Albright Simon, but it is not cheap:

Warn Contactor (http://www.devon4x4.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=11144&category_id=83&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=14)

from memory it is better than the genuine std albrights
Thanks for this! I'd only seen the CMOS ones but it looks like Warn are in on it now too.


Time for a hijack. Where can I buy a chinese knock off of a hi mount?

I think the only knock off of the Hi mount is the full GigglePin winch which is of course a copy that is much better and much more expensive than the original product.

[clubagreenie]

That guy in Germany who put the Defender on portals etc was making some copies that put the Gigglepin to shame I think too.

[rovercare]

Thanks for this! I'd only seen the CMOS ones but it looks like Warn are in on it now too.



I think the only knock off of the Hi mount is the full GigglePin winch which is of course a copy that is much better and much more expensive than the original product.

There was one a few years back, can't remember the name, marketed in orange color....

[4x4shooter]

Tiger are a good cheap reliable winch perfect for your budget offroader parts are also inexpensive. Warn is an american name brand that isquality backed parts can be expensive depending on what u break personal choice either way you cant go wrong.

Synthetic rope has alot of imatations which fray and brake at tension less then stated trouble with chinese, but the quality rope you want is dyneema rope and will all ways be taged by name plus trade mark. Can be bought threw warn or mean mother which is the new kid in town.

Last point is that mean mother winches are tmax redesigned and engineered to kill warn, I managed to got one from my rep . I pulled it apart to find it the same as warn but modified and improved so keep an eye out as they may get rated and the price jacked up.

Cheers

PS autobarn is a stockist for warn starting november. Woo!!!!

[flagg]

Time for a hijack. Where can I buy a chinese knock off of a hi mount?

If there is, you will most likely find it here:

China High Mount Winch, China High Mount Winch Manufacturers, China High Mount Winch Suppliers and Companies on Alibaba.com (http://www.alibaba.com/products/high_mount_winch/CN--142910.html)

I bought a Chinese knock off alt a little while back for $90USD. I thought it was a huge bargain until I saw where they got it on Alibaba for $27USD.

[LowRanger]

I take it your justifying your own winch? You have a cheapy?

High mounts actually pull substantially slower under load unless upgraded to 6hp


They are just far more reliable than any Chinese winch, as I said, by design, if left unserviced and unloved, there is a far greater chance of an 8274 surviving...... I say all this compared to all low mounts, just the cheaper jobs are worse again

Most cheap jobs will do the average punter, but they fail alot, under anything with large load, use a snatch block, they will pull till self destruction

But seeing as it's a choice between cheap Chinese winch and the rolls Royce of electric winch......


Wayne, I can't quote that but anyhow, I spent most of that wrecking 4wd's up the bush, abusing everything getting stuck etc, hardly mild touring and alot of winching

I can compare a high mount with a chinese low mount, as opposed to a Ramsay, because, forgive me if I'm wrong, the thread title is in regards to a........high mount vs chinese low mount? not a ramsay

I belive the same in regards to all low mounts however, the 8274...not 8272 which you keep stating? is still superior in its desing

The price difference is the same in the states as far as Im aware, not just inflated aus price

And if price was everything we'd drive something from Japan?........pretty sure a range rover is hardly cheap new these days




Also, please present your "facts" as opposed to personal opinion

You state that you disregard the Ramsay because the thread was regarding the Himount v's the "Chinese" low mount,but then in your next statement say that you believe it to be the same regards all low mounts???
And again,you are grouping all "Chinese" winches in together.Like most things,there are high end and low end products on the market,so you can't assume that just because they come from China that they are all low quality.

As far as being pedantic regarding my use of 8272 when in I am well aware of the identification of the product,all I can offer is that I typed that after no sleep for 20Hrs,now how do you spell believe and design??

As far as being the "Rolls Royce" of winches is concerned,maybe that is why people tend to look through rose coloured glasses at them,they don't see them being taken away and rebuilt,just like a "Rolls".

I have said nothing about the performance of the M8274 except that you can't compare an 8,000lb winch to a 12,000lb winch,especially when you can purchase a 12,000lb winch,with full warranty for less than the cost of a second hand M8274 which could be of unknown quality!!!

And as far as facts go,I have owned 2 M8274's and had them fail before you were born!!!
M8274's actually have a faster line recovery speed in standard form than most lowmounts,contrary to what you stated above.

The M8274's are a great winch,for what they are ie an 8,000lb winch,and compare more than favourably to most 9,000-9500lb winches.But here it was being compared to a 12,000lb winch.

Have a look around at some of the other forums and you will see that a lot of the comp. guys are buying up most of the M8274's that come on the market,and by pure supply and demand,that drives the price up.

My answers to Justin's original question,is certainly my own thoughts on the matter,taking into account the fact that the Low mount is already fitted,also the fact of the modifications required to fit the Hi Mount,and also taking into consideration the possible implications of overheating caused by disrupting the airflow through the radiator.Which can be a problem with V8 Rangies /Disco's etc.

Wayne

[clubagreenie]

Well, I'll be selling off the warn due to being much better financially off afterwards.

As I said, I need a new tail shaft, shocks (so brake lines, ABS extensions), (hopefully) get yorkies centre muffler fitted.

Having looked at quite a variety of motors, and speaking to the specialists. I could get the same speed from any HP rating. It depends on it's RPM rating, also to a degree on the load but they showed me a few different motors. Anyone jump in to disparage this but the motor I have, the armature is flat copper wound, not wire wound and while only 2.6HP, 2500RPM (according to the plate, it's a Presalite motor) the flat winding will maintain a higher speed under load longer than a wire wound (the downside is it can't be rewound).

Obviously the hight HP motors will pull that same speed, under the same load, the difference apparently being the current draw.

So if anyone wants (or knows of someone) a Hi-mount that's been reco'd with all new bushes, bearings and motor with new splined (not the old keyed) input gear, wire cable...

But the consensus is, if you don't have a winch and come across a cheap hi mount (or other warn) go for it. But otherwise one of the better winches in the middle price range is the way to go.

[4x4shooter]

Top stuff mate and good luck with it

[rovercare]

You state that you disregard the Ramsay because the thread was regarding the Himount v's the "Chinese" low mount,but then in your next statement say that you believe it to be the same regards all low mounts???
And again,you are grouping all "Chinese" winches in together.Like most things,there are high end and low end products on the market,so you can't assume that just because they come from China that they are all low quality.

As far as being pedantic regarding my use of 8272 when in I am well aware of the identification of the product,all I can offer is that I typed that after no sleep for 20Hrs,now how do you spell believe and design??

As far as being the "Rolls Royce" of winches is concerned,maybe that is why people tend to look through rose coloured glasses at them,they don't see them being taken away and rebuilt,just like a "Rolls".

I have said nothing about the performance of the M8274 except that you can't compare an 8,000lb winch to a 12,000lb winch,especially when you can purchase a 12,000lb winch,with full warranty for less than the cost of a second hand M8274 which could be of unknown quality!!!

And as far as facts go,I have owned 2 M8274's and had them fail before you were born!!!
M8274's actually have a faster line recovery speed in standard form than most lowmounts,contrary to what you stated above.

The M8274's are a great winch,for what they are ie an 8,000lb winch,and compare more than favourably to most 9,000-9500lb winches.But here it was being compared to a 12,000lb winch.

Have a look around at some of the other forums and you will see that a lot of the comp. guys are buying up most of the M8274's that come on the market,and by pure supply and demand,that drives the price up.

My answers to Justin's original question,is certainly my own thoughts on the matter,taking into account the fact that the Low mount is already fitted,also the fact of the modifications required to fit the Hi Mount,and also taking into consideration the possible implications of overheating caused by disrupting the airflow through the radiator.Which can be a problem with V8 Rangies /Disco's etc.

Wayne

Yes, faster line recovery, once loaded they are just as slow

The price difference new, is existant world over, compared to low mounts, chinese low mounts are pushing the price of second hand low mounts down

I think I understand about the rebuilding of the high mount, as mine has a 6hp motor, widened and free spooled drum

Simple facts are, I've seen 3 lots of chinese winch's destroy their innards and 2 winch themselves in....by themselves, one remote, one control operation where the solenoids stuck, 2 of them "high end" for chinese winches

Your "facts" are just your personal experience, as are mine, you have nothing for the table in writing....just as I don't

I don't have a problem with chinese goods, I have chinese 2 post hoist, which does the job well, its a "high end" one.....but hell, if i had a Molnar that needed a motor, I'd be keeping the Molnar

I don't need to look at other forums to see the demand on second hand high mount winches, I've sold 3 in the past few years

[clubagreenie]

But if you had your chinese hoist that was ok, was given a molinar that needed a motor but you needed to modify your garage/power supply/rtc to fit it would you? Or would you fix the molinar and sell it to buy other goodies you need?

As for Facts being only experience. All facts are based on experience. Someone experienced the event to establish the fact.

[rovercare]

But if you had your chinese hoist that was ok, was given a molinar that needed a motor but you needed to modify your garage/power supply/rtc to fit it would you? Or would you fix the molinar and sell it to buy other goodies you need?

As for Facts being only experience. All facts are based on experience. Someone experienced the event to establish the fact.

Fix the molnar

The chinese hoist does the job, but the molinar will do it better and for longer, but wasn't worth the price difference to buy new

Actually, if a molnar turned up now, I'd probably fit it and keep both:D

Correct about "facts", I was pulled up to produce some on paper so to speak, when the opposing didn't have anything either

Anyhooow, its your choice, its neither right or wrong, I just merely offered what I'd do in the same situation:)

[Chilly]

Tiger are a good cheap reliable winch perfect for your budget offroader parts are also inexpensive. Warn is an american name brand that isquality backed parts can be expensive depending on what u break personal choice either way you cant go wrong.

Synthetic rope has alot of imatations which fray and brake at tension less then stated trouble with chinese, but the quality rope you want is dyneema rope and will all ways be taged by name plus trade mark. Can be bought threw warn or mean mother which is the new kid in town.

Last point is that mean mother winches are tmax redesigned and engineered to kill warn, I managed to got one from my rep . I pulled it apart to find it the same as warn but modified and improved so keep an eye out as they may get rated and the price jacked up.

Cheers

PS autobarn is a stockist for warn starting november. Woo!!!!

What prices have you been quoted for the Mean Mother?
Which model did you pull apart?

Chilly

[Loubrey]

The fact remains that all accessories on our cars need to be somehow justified (unless you are profoundly well off I suppose), and in turn your ultimate application would determine what is justified.

I’ve built roads through Central Africa where your actual survival often relies on the winch working every single time you need it. In these applications I’ve used Warn myself and I’ve in fact still got the now 15 year old XD9000i and it’s still going strong. They are not waterproof or dust proof and they need a LOT of TLC to keep working as required. They will however keep working all day long if looked after and I’ve been in situations where I’ve had to do 17 consecutive max line out winches to get through a bad patch during rainy season. This comes at a price, both purchase and maintenance. Will I venture in deepest darkest Africa without a Warn... maybe not, but there are very few actual instances where winches can justify their cost sitting mostly as an ornament on your bulbar!

Around 5 years ago I tried out the “Goldfish” winch from Goodwinch in the UK. This is a British upgraded version of the Chinese “King One” brand. The winch is as waterproof as you’ll ever get a winch to be, in fact the stand at the Land Rover World show actually had one running under water on a permanent basis for the three days of the show (no line on the spool, obviously). I bought a 9500lbs one for around 450.00GBP advertising a line speed of just a fraction below the fastest Warns. I did Trialling and Challenge competitions with this winch for three years with only one solenoid failure for the entire period (which I picked up on my pre completion check at home).

I still love Warn for many reasons, one being the fact that their handheld controls are by a country mile still top of the market. I cannot however slate the Chinese products purely for being Chinese and some of their products are clearly over-engineered to a ridiculous degree! Sitting with a choice of paying a minimum of $2200.00 locally for a Warn I might use 10 times a year or ordering another “Goldfish” upgraded winch from the UK (fitted with Dyneema rope) for half the price, I need to take a serious look at what else can be done with the spare $1000.00!

[4x4shooter]

What prices have you been quoted for the Mean Mother?
Which model did you pull apart?

Chilly

9000lb mean mother compared to warn xd9000 rrp for mm starts about 899 from memory and warn should be around 2grand comparo solenoids basicly same gearing drainage etc have been improved they say they didn't copy and improve on warn but the componentry is just as good. Bottom line mean mother has been designed by an aussie off roader for our inviroment the company even sent the bloke over seas to over see construction and engerneering..

Both warn and mm can be bought threw autobarn and most stores should have a product catalogue in store that give u the full run down .. lastly these guys can be purchased with genuine dyneema rope.

If u want to know anything give me a pm. I will look at it sooner then later

Xoxo haha

[isuzurover]

If you were starting from scratch - then there is no contest between the Tigerz11 and the 8274 (I own one of each btw).

You just have to look at what all the winch comp guys are using... How many use 8274s vs how many use Tigerz???

That said, on my 110 I chose a Tigerz11, as I didn't want to either: (a) lose approach angle of (b) hack up the grille, or (c) obstruct airflow to the radiator on a touring vehicle.

If the vehicle was a play toy or a comp vehicle and it wouldn't cost me much to do the swap, then I would pull the Tigerz11 to fit an 8274.

[Loubrey]

If you were starting from scratch - then there is no contest between the Tigerz11 and the 8274 (I own one of each btw).

You just have to look at what all the winch comp guys are using... How many use 8274s vs how many use Tigerz???

That said, on my 110 I chose a Tigerz11, as I didn't want to either: (a) lose approach angle of (b) hack up the grille, or (c) obstruct airflow to the radiator on a touring vehicle.

If the vehicle was a play toy or a comp vehicle and it wouldn't cost me much to do the swap, then I would pull the Tigerz11 to fit an 8274.


I'm 100% with you on that!

Like I said, I tried an unbranded winch in competition for a few years and I took a lot of flak of my fellow competitors for it. The winch worked fine, but there is no denying that the 8274 is the right tool for the job. The fact is that you get what you pay for and Warn remains at the very least Top 3 for non industrial winching.

I’m not familiar with the Mean Machine winches at all, but for your average weekend off roader having a play with mates it sound a very good option. 95% of winch owners do not even free spool and rewind their winches once a year, not even mentioning using it in anger.

The question therefore remain for 95% of recreational off roaders - do you spent $1000’s on branded “bling” to enhance a “Camel Man” image, or do you buy an affordable alternative that will work fine for the one or two times you might need it through the year?

[clubagreenie]

So due to a retarded electrician the tigerz demised.

So now the question, with an approximate budget of $1500- what are the recommendations for the next purchase. It's being paid for by insurance as a consequence of subsequent damage from repairs.

The runva's look like good value and have reasonable reviews.

<start the arguments>

[Disco Muppet]

I asked about Runva the other day at Opposite Lock, they said the only fault they had with them was a pig hunter who bought it friday, and blistered the paint from using it so heavily over the weekend.
Do you really need a 12000lb winch on a D2 though?
For $1500 you could probably get most of a Warn XD9000, or a couple of cheaper ones.
I'm looking at replacing my Tigerz with a TJM Ox winch, they seem like decent winches and I get mates rates on them.

[4runnernomore]

TigerzII have just released a new 12000lb winch called the Domin8r. Video footage provided looks like the unit could be definitely worth looking at.

Link. Winches - PRODUCT RANGE (http://www.tigerz11.com.au/product-category/winches.html)

Check it out.

cheers, Chris

[Vern]

Warn highmount:D

[rangieman]

Warn highmount:D

x 2 :wallbash::Rolling:

[clubagreenie]

Dominator looks goods until you look at the line speeds vs gear ratio. It's either running high rpm motor or something's amiss. From comparison with all the specs I've been reading up lately (and that's a lot) speeds and ratios don't gel. Plus I'm not convinced about their warranty reliability. People seem to be getting run around at claim time.

As for 12,000 on a D2, cost differences are negligible, size isn't an issue (I could fit the runva 17,000 if I wanted) and it may come down to pulling someone larger. Looking into elec hyd pumps as I'd go that way if I can work it out.

If I was to get a high mount I'd go straight to gigglepin. If I got a warn it'd get gigglepin mods anyway. But it'd require removal of driving lights (or relocation to top of bar, not desirable). Hydraulic will be the preferred choice. Just where to mount a suitable pump (and finding one). Who's up to speed on selecting a stable pump?

[Tombie]

Mako

[brenno]

With a budget of $1500, it's a no-brainer... The Warn Hi Mount for sure.

How many of the cheaper winches do you reckon will be around after 20 years use?? Actually, let me follow that up with another question... How many of the cheaper winches will be around in a years time after some hard work and extreme conditions?? Not many.

The Warn is a proven performer and many of the hi mounts going around today are older winches. Sure, most have had regular servicing or rebuilds, but they have an excellent reputation for reliability, with good reason. They are also able to be modified (lightly or highly) for even better performance and ease of servicing. Then, there's the line speed too.

In the cheaper class, the Runva looks good. Obviously with a lifetime warranty, you're already on a winner. The Mako looks good too, and gets good reviews, but it is double the price of the Runva.

I recently went through the process of looking into which winch to get. I had always had my heart (head) set on a hi mount, but never really had the coin to throw at one, so I had decided to get a Runva 11XP. Never got that far, as I picked up a hi mount from a fellow forum member for a very good price, just at the right time.

The above is just my opinion.

[nedflanders]

Its a lot of money to spend to then realize the customer service backup if something goes wrong is ****e, look at each company, do a search and you'll find a lot of unhappy campers with Tigerz11.

[clubagreenie]

Runva is getting to be a long shot.

I've called 4 times a day and left a message each time now for 6 days, all with no response.

Looking into a Goldfish with Bow Motor 2, pneumatic clutch, 50m dyneema for <$1000-

[CJT]

My choice was the Avenger Mako TDS9.5 and I am going to buy a second one.

I noticed they now have a high speed version due for release, they also have options for air freespool, the only one I know off for a low mount winch.

I have mine in the front XROX bar with the air freespool, winch solenoid will be under the bonnet and controls are in cab with the option to plug the hand controller into the plug on the front bar if needed.

Reasonably cheap as well, I think I paid around $900 with synthetic rope and the offset fairlead.

[rovercare]

Warn 8274, the cheap stuff is just that

[Loubrey]

The Mako Avenger and the Goldfish is essentially the same winch and is made by King-One.

Dave Bowyer from Goodwinch buys the winches in and exchanges the motors, solenoids and waterproofing. He's a good honest bloke that will give genuine non biased advice and will sell you exactly what you need and not just try and make a sale. Compare the TDS winches on the two links below...

Goodwinch Winches & Parts, Electric Winches and Winch Bumpers, UK – Goodwinch.com (http://www.dborc.co.uk/goodwinch/)

Avenger Mako TDS 9.5 (9500lbs) Winch - TORQ4x4 (http://www.torq4x4.com.au/avenger-mako-tds-9-5-winch)

I competed in the UK with a standard TDS9500 with the goldfish seals and it never let me down. I'm pretty sure you can buy the Mako Avenger over here and add the spares from Goodwinch if you choose to. I can imagine the airfreight cost of a fully kitted Goldfish would be pretty hefty!

Only the Warn 8274 has a faster line speed than the TDS9500 and I just couldn't afford one to be honest. I currently have an Warn XD9000 fitted purely because it came up on a never to be repeated offer, otherwise I would have the Mako Avenger fitted.

Cheers,

Lou

[Slunnie]

How will you fit the hi-mount to a Disco2?

[clubagreenie]

It'll actually fit in the xrox bar with a small spacer behind the front plate (i've trial fitted one)-p;, custom grille but it means loosing the driving lights or looking like a toysan driver with the lights above the bar.

Will be going some sort of low mount, as Dave only airfreights it's a killer but shipping the large drum, air freespool and bowmotor would be not far off I'd think plus I don't think I could buy a bare winch by the look of it here.

From the UK it's 795 plus about the same shipping so expensive.

[Slunnie]

Ah, xrox bar. It wouldn't be pretty fitting the hi mount to my ARB bar.

[rovercare]

Ah, xrox bar. It wouldn't be pretty fitting the hi mount to my ARB bar.

Grinders and welders solve all issues:D

[clubagreenie]

Can be done. Did one on a D1

[Grimace]

Warn 8274 hi-mount

end of thread!

[clubagreenie]

Decided.

Goodwinch 11,500lb, Large drum (45m Synth), Bowmotor 2, Hi speed ratios, waterproofed.

[brenno]

Decided.

Goodwinch 11,500lb, Large drum (45m Synth), Bowmotor 2, Hi speed ratios, waterproofed.

So, if you don't mind me asking, how much coin??

[clubagreenie]

Don't know yet. $794 pounds, plus shipping (air freight only). Covered by insurance so not important. Could have him ship 2 if you're keen. Will hopefully have the original motor from it shipped as well to repair the Tigerz and fit it to the rear, 'cause I can.

Same as the auto which was killed recently by poor workmanship. Oh well, Ashcroft replacement on the way. I'm starting to like other people working on the D2, they break things and then have to buy me new bits.

[Disco Muppet]

Same as the auto which was killed recently by poor workmanship. Oh well, Ashcroft replacement on the way. I'm starting to like other people working on the D2, they break things and then have to buy me new bits.

Didn't you rebuild the auto not that long ago?
I'd be spewing :censored:

[clubagreenie]

19,000K's to be almost exact.

Oil refill procedure, which I emailed to them, reinforced by visiting and explaining, plus explaining to the electrician (who I became instantly wary of) about disconnecting the winch and driving light connections with the fitted plugs rather than unbolting. But he knew better. When reconnecting he didn't hold the terminals that pass through the motor body of the winch and broke off the wiring inside the motor. When I tried to use it, fortunately not off road and stuck somewhere, it shorted out internally and also fried the solenoid.

Turns out the insurance assessor hails from England. A little place called Solihull in fact, working as a final inspector on the D2 production line. A one in four chance that he inspected and was the first to drive my D2 off the line. He check for his marking that he put under the steering column cover and it was in fact him. From there nothing was an issue.

[Disco Muppet]

Not even 20k kms.... I'd be seriously :bat::2up:




Turns out the insurance assessor hails from England. A little place called Solihull in fact, working as a final inspector on the D2 production line. A one in four chance that he inspected and was the first to drive my D2 off the line. He check for his marking that he put under the steering column cover and it was in fact him. From there nothing was an issue.

What are the odds....

[clubagreenie]

4:1

There were four inspectors, one disco, two inspection lines.

Can't be too upset, at least I don't have to change it myself this time. That's a seriously unimpressive job.

[Disco Muppet]

4:1

There were four inspectors, one disco, two inspection lines.

Can't be too upset, at least I don't have to change it myself this time. That's a seriously unimpressive job.

I was more referring to the odds of your insurance assessor being one of those four :p

[brenno]

Don't know yet. $794 pounds, plus shipping (air freight only). Covered by insurance so not important. Could have him ship 2 if you're keen.

That's not too bad. You probably already know, but you'll probably have to pay GST on top too.

I'm good for a winch, thanks anyway for the offer. I got's me a Warn Hi Mount.

How much are the motors?? I wouldn't mind sticking one on the Hi Mount instead of the Warn 6hp I'm looking at getting.

[Offender90]

That's not too bad. You probably already know, but you'll probably have to pay GST on top too.

I'm good for a winch, thanks anyway for the offer. I got's me a Warn Hi Mount.

How much are the motors?? I wouldn't mind sticking one on the Hi Mount instead of the Warn 6hp I'm looking at getting.

If you're looking at the Warn 6hp motor (Warn 68608), Amazon's the best place to get them. I got one the other week for ~ $320 delivered, which is considerably better than the $450+ the local ebay stores offer.

[brenno]

If you're looking at the Warn 6hp motor (Warn 68608), Amazon's the best place to get them. I got one the other week for ~ $320 delivered, which is considerably better than the $450+ the local ebay stores offer.

Nice, thanks.

Any issues with Amazon delivering to Australia?? Have heard before that there've been issues, that's all.

[Offender90]

Yeah, it could be an issue depending on what it is you buy, and sometimes who you buy from, but buying Warn winch motors from Amazon itself is not one of those.

Some goods have exclusive importers for various countries, and Amazon (or any International retailer for that matter) are only allowed to supply domestically, or to a country that doesn't have an exclusive dmoestic importer (if that makes sense). And sometimes, even if the goods are OK to be shipped, the individual retailers can't be bothered or don't want to take the risk sending their goods overseas.

There are ways around this using parcel forwarders (like Shipito) but generally not worth the hassle I've found.

My motor arrived in a touch over a week after purchase.

HTH

Bojan

[clubagreenie]

The Goodwinch site is down at the moment. A bit of a worry.

The bowmotor is rated for a higher RPM than the warn and others plus is a bit higher HP as well. Can't see specifics from the site though, but if Gigglepin etc go to the Bow as an upgrade from the warn is a pretty safe bet it's better.

[Slunnie]

Bowmotor 4.8hp and 9hp run at 4000rpm, Warn 6hp and Bowmotor 6.6hp are both 5000rpm. Obviously the free rpm don't reflect the pull characteristics and the Bowmotor 9hp will out pull everything else here.

[clubagreenie]

Can someone check the goodwinch site at

Demon - Your Default Homepage (http://www.dborc.co.uk)

or

Goodwinch Winches & Parts, Electric Winches and Winch Bumpers, UK – Goodwinch.com (http://www.goodwinch.com)

Hold that, just came back up. Looks like they have been shuffling providers.

Also, here's a motor, 5hp at a reasonable price. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-12-V-Long-Armature-5HP-Motor-Goodwinch-Superwinch-TDS-Warn-/161046702469?pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Other_Vehic le_Parts_Accessories_ET&hash=item257f21a985

[clubagreenie]

Order placed.

New selection, they have just added a 12,000lb high speed, bow 2, large drum, pneumatic free spool, submersible, etc etc.

874 pounds plus 300 shipping. Air freight in approx 8 days.

[Grimace]

Order placed.

New selection, they have just added a 12,000lb high speed, bow 2, large drum, pneumatic free spool, submersible, etc etc.

874 pounds plus 300 shipping. Air freight in approx 8 days.

Don't forget Aus customs and duty charges and then final GST needs to be added.

That 9hp bow motor is certainly impressive!!!

[clubagreenie]

Hey when insurance is paying it's no longer an issue.

Just to clarify though, greater than $1000- attracts GST and other duties? Is there a schedule of these fees listed on the customs website?

[clubagreenie]

Save that,

Here's an example from customs.

Example 1: An importation of multiple low value packages of goods (for example, six packages of video cameras each valued at A$200) (One consignment)


A$

Customs value (6 x $200) (Cval)

1200.00

Customs duty (Duty) @ 5% of Cval

60.00
(Payable)

International transport and insurance or postage (T&I)

150.00

Value of the Taxable Importation (VoTI) (Cval+Duty+T&I)

1410.00

Goods and Services Tax (GST) @ 10% of the VoTI

141.00
(Payable)

Total payable Duty + GST

201.00


So customs duty is 5% of value which i then added to both goods costs and freight costs and then GST i calculated on the total.

[clubagreenie]

Winch is on the way.

http://www.dborc.co.uk/goodwinch/images/95c_120c_largedrum.jpg

basically as above, no rope (cheaper locally), or pulley (weight and already have one). With one of these.

http://www.dborc.co.uk/goodwinch/images/200271.jpg

Total cost, 2240- Landed (with special invoicing for import). BIG thanks to Dave Bowyer and Sue (in the office) from Goodwinch Winches & Parts, Electric Winches and Winch Bumpers, UK – Goodwinch.com (http://www.dborc.co.uk/goodwinch/) for organising building and shipping this for me, with understanding of delays from insurance payouts.

Now waiting on funding for auto so it can be shipped then get it fitted, then all will be back on track, well almost.

[clubagreenie]

Winch arrived today.:banana:

Packaging was fantastic, not even TNT international could damage it. BIG kudos to Dave Bowyer and Sue at Goodwinch, seamless discussion, build and shipping. Ended up costing (:angel:) $2200- including freight and all clearance charges for a door to door delivery and based on the auto coming in via DHL non door to door the charges are about $300- plus a $65- currency charge for the banks for using a credit card.

But it's a hell of a unit. It's a king-one winch that we all know is available from china or locally as a premier but new end plates (no holes so watertight), new larger drum and spacer plates for the mounting points plus the bow motor is much bigger and heavier. Topped off with being made waterproof to Dave's standards.

Even though I asked for a bare bones winch, no oem solenoids (upgraded to an albright unit) or cables etc all this was thrown in (cables are upgraded to suit the bowmotor too) as well plus the standard pulley block (a rated and much more compact unit that common) plus a set of 1, 3 & 5m tree/extension straps.

I know that I could have gotten other units for less but the king-one gets a good wrap as a basic unit and it is possible to upgrade with the changes I've made later.

[clubagreenie]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/393.jpgThe package; Bare winch (came with original solenoid/case but already removed). The blue/yellow buts at the motor end are large copper bus bars that have been designed to match up to an albright (or similar) type solenoid. Pulley, controller, 5m lead and very robust handle. Air operated freespool.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/394.jpgWith the original freespool handle. It disengages vertically so twisting it actually ramps the handle up and pulls the pin out of engagement.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/395.jpgAir freespool fitted, the centre of the body just pops up with pressure in from the fitting. there's also a stainless tee and hose fittings plus the solenoid and valve and elec switch.You can also see the additional size of the drum flanges and the solid end caps and stainless tie rods.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/396.jpgFinally the spacer plates to allow for the larger drum to clear the mounting surface plus the sealing on the motor.