300tdi into a Series 3............

[jerryd]

I've been reading lots of articles about putting the Disco 200 or 300 tdi motors into a series vehicle. I note that most put the defender manifold / turbo on to clear the chassis / wing etc.

So my questions are........is the "defender 300tdi motor" basically the same as the disco 300tdi ?? If not what are the differences and how would they affect putting the defender unit into a series 3 ??

Also does the defender bellhousing mate up to the series gearbox as does the disco one :confused: or does it need changing ??

I don't seem to be able to find any articles on putting the defender unit into a series vehicle, is it because they are harder to find ??

[langy]

Try searching for 200tdi into series landrover - as there are a fair number of those conversions in the UK ( Not so much Aust as the 200tdi wasn't that popular here). The main feature of the using a disco 200tdi was the minimal modifications required. With the 300tdi, the bellhousing on the R380 gearbox changed a bit and wouldn't fit a series gearbox. That isn't a problem as if you are going to buy a 300tdi, you may as well take the whole drivetrain. Note that the gearstick on a disco gearbox ends up in the cubby box on the defender. There was a difference with the 200tdi defender timing case that made using it in a series chassis difficult. You can use a 200tdi turbo manifold on the 300tdi, which puts the turbo more towards the front. Others use the manifold to fit an aftermarket turbo. Otherwise there weren't many differences defender/disco 300tdi.

Of course I could be wrong.

See east coast rovers as well
http://www.eastcoastrover.com/SIIITdi.html

[isuzurover]

The main feature of the using a disco 200tdi was the minimal modifications required. With the 300tdi, the bellhousing on the R380 gearbox changed a bit and wouldn't fit a series gearbox.

Actually, that does not seem to be the case. 300Tdis can and have been fitted to series boxes. Slightly more work than a 200, but not that much...

Have a look here:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/124813-200tdi-vs-300tdi-bellhousing-bolt-pattern.html

Jerry - not 100% sure. I know that on a 200 disco engine the turbo dump pipe wants to be where the bellhosuing is, but you can fit a disco 200tdi with a custom dump pipe into a series. With a 300, I think disco and defender engines are the same??? (apart from ancillaries).

[chazza]

Some other useful information that Nitemare told me, is that the 300tdi exhaust manifold fits the 200tdi after some stud modification, which solves the turbo hitting the chassis problem.

Have you fitted your 300tdi yet Ben?

Cheers Charlie

[isuzurover]

Some other useful information that Nitemare told me, is that the 300tdi exhaust manifold fits the 200tdi after some stud modification, which solves the turbo hitting the chassis problem.

Have you fitted your 300tdi yet Ben?

Cheers Charlie

No, the disco is too practical as a runabout, and extremely economical! So is staying in one piece for the moment... (despite it being a slug)

Still on the cards though... However the longer I own and work on the 300, the less they impress me. A 200tdi with 300 head and manifold might be a nice beast though...

[jerryd]

However the longer I own and work on the 300, the less they impress me. A 200tdi with 300 head and manifold might be a nice beast though...

Now you are confusing me even more :confused: I thought the 300 tdi was the better engine ??

[isuzurover]

Now you are confusing me even more :confused: I thought the 300 tdi was the better engine ??

The 200Tdi has a much better timing/belt system. Much of the rest is the same. 200's are rare in AU, and some parts are unobtainable - however can usually be substituted with 300 parts. Power output is around the same.

[NiteMare]

i've fitted the 200tdi engine into both an 88" and a 109...

in the 88" i've cut the inner wing to clear the turbo to intercooler pipe but this can be avoided by "clocking" the turbo output housing and redrilling it to remount the wastegate actuator, i also used four shock absorber washers to lift the engine slightly (1 above and 1 below both engine mounts) i also put the cast iron belt pulley on my lathe and removed the rearmost Vee completely to stop it hitting my front axle over rough ground i also took a couple of milimetre off the front lip for safety, i used a Series alternator mount and spaced the alternator forwards to align it with the crank and waterpump pulley...

in my 109 i've done basically the same stuff but due the the different depth to the chassis rails i fitted a 300tdi turbo and manifolds to allow clearance without scalloping a chunk out of the chassis, on this conversion i also used a TD5 intercooler as it fits nicely between the wings in front of the radiator with just two small pieces of the inner panel removed...

if you do a search for threads started by me you can take a look through my 109 build (Big Ears), if you want lots of pictures to look through i'll link my photobucket pages

[jerryd]

NiteMare, I'm blaming you 100% for making me want to do this conversion :D

I've read all your posts many times

[NiteMare]

NiteMare, I'm blaming you 100% for making me want to do this conversion :D

I've read all your posts many times

i don't mind taking the blame as long as i don't end up with a horde of angry housewives hunting me down :eek:

[Jojo]

Here is what a mate of mine did, 300Tdi of a Defender into a SIII, minus the turbo. Read the story here: 300Di Conversion (http://www.tukojack.com/300di_conversion.htm). Works a treat!

[NiteMare]

if you look through the link that JoJo posted the vehicle that's been modded to accept the 300 engine is on a coil sprung chassis, looks to be quite a heavily modified vehicle..

he's also cut off one if not both of the original motor mounts from the chassis to fit the disco (or defender) mounts from the way it reads, this needn't be done as a lad from the Series2 forum has documented his 300tdi conversion, he's made his own engine mount and remote mounted the oil filter, i'm guesing that this removes any problem of the front prop clashing with the offside mount, he's also had to modify the flywheel housing to clear the prop as per the above link ...

all in all i don't see either engine to be a particularly difficult conversion/transplant and different ways to sort through mounting problems are always worth reading as various folks ideas can be combined to make things simpler/more user friendly, i've even seen pictures of the 2litre turbo Rover Tomcat engine fitted into an 88", this motor apparently went like stink

[SlowRide]

Here is what a mate of mine did, 300Tdi of a Defender into a SIII, minus the turbo. Read the story here: 300Di Conversion (http://www.tukojack.com/300di_conversion.htm). Works a treat!

Any idea what sort of L/100Ks or MPG figures this conversion would use? I'm quite keen on getting an old Series, but not if 20L/100K's is the best it'll do. EFI diesel is the only way

[NiteMare]

my Series with a 200tdi and 3.54 diffs will do 30 miles per gallon driven sensibly on a run, put my overdrive in and i've exceeded 35 miles per gallon (430ish miles on less than 13 gallons including laning around Wales earlier this year) ...

this is in an 88" truckcab with 3/4 tilt and 7.50 x 16 Deestones, i'd guess i'd get another 2-3 mpg if i ran sensible road pattern tyres but i don't do sensible :D

i've yet to do a decent run in my 200tdi'd 109 but the mpg round town and locally feels acceptable with just the 3.54 diffs

i'd expect similar mpg out of the 300tdi engine if i fitted one

[SlowRide]

Good to know - i'll be chasing a SWB Series, so I guess that'll put MPG on the friendlier end of the spectrum too. I'd probably go for a 300tdi due to a better availability in Aus from what I gather (maybe de-rating it to a 300di if suggestion advises). Either way - would you use a Series gearbox behind this or is there something more apt at handling the extra power?

Sorry, gotta ask all the basic questions - not overly familiar with the Land Rover parts list as my 4x4 background is with old Landcruisers and Suzuki Sierras/SJ410s... but I always knew the day would come where i'd be a Land Rover man :angel:

[Blknight.aus]

drop the turbo off of a tdi300 and its basically a glorified 2.25 series diesel.

fozzy pulls about 11-12l/100 atm and hes in a bad way, (hes also running vege stock)

[NiteMare]

i run series boxes in both of mine, my 88" took two and a half years to kill a series 3 box that was already tired and hopped out of second on the overrun, it still works but howls like a banshee so i guess it's just about decimated so i've swapped it for one that still hops out of second but is quiet (cost me £2.35p off ebay so i didn't expect much :D ), i use this motor primarily as a toy now for my laning and pay and play pit days rather than the every day driver it was (daily is my 109 due to being more comfortable and better looking) so when it does get driven it gets a fair bit of abuse

my '65 109 still has it's original Series 2a box in it which is the sweetest i've used so far and feels perfect, loses no oil and has a lovely positive gearchange up and down

the thing to remember with these boxes is they are all thirty plus years old so already have done a fair bit of work and probably been abused by several owners so you will most likely kill it eventually as the tdi is quite a harsh engine (300 has a smoother delivery though) ...

if you don't know what your gearbox is like it might be worth you stripping and rebuilding it which will also give you a chance to replace the seals and ensuring the oil stays inside it mostly or you can take the chance and see how it goes and grab a spare to cover the eventual failure

or you could go for a swap to a later box from a defender (not discovery as the bellhousing is too long), LT77 or R380 matched to a Series transfer box but this throws up other problems due to it being longer and requires you relocate engine and/or gearbox mounts along with altering propshafts, i've not gone that route myself as of yet due to the high cost of these boxes here but it is something i'd like to do just because i can

[jerryd]

The plan is coming together :) but I've a lot of reading to do first. My biggest concern at the moment is the driver's side engine mount/ oil filter issue :confused: but I'm sure I'll work it out.

[NiteMare]

The plan is coming together :) but I've a lot of reading to do first. My biggest concern at the moment is the driver's side engine mount/ oil filter issue :confused: but I'm sure I'll work it out.

i suggest you take a look at this thread

300 TDI drivers side mounting - ideas (http://www.series2club.info/forum/index.php/topic,41821.0.html)

this removes the need to cut the chassis, read it carefully as he initially developed an oil leak and had to modify his mount/remote oil filter plate but it's now been in a couple of months without any problem

this in my opinion is the tidiest way to drop the 300tdi in a Series chassis

and if you haven't already checked out my 109 build for ideas

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/other-powered-series-land-rovers/126717-my-65-109-big-ears-200tdi.html

and here is a collection of pictures of my 4 day 200tdi 88" conversion, quite a few extra pictures included as teething problems were encountered

Zebedee pictures by NiteMare_08 - Photobucket (http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/hh311/NiteMare_08/Zebedee/)

[Col.Coleman]

Jerry,

Below you will find one out here from England already done. Colin and Rose are here in Brisbane for another week before they head off on the big loop. You may be able to check it out in person and ask all the questions you require, as well as the what he would have done differently next time.

They are "Colrose" on the forum. They were most welcome guests at my place last Sat out out Slow meeting.


Dear Michael and Cheryl,

Thanks to you both for opening your home, so full of love, to all of us yesterday....it was a lovely afternoon and evening, so far removed from any regular car club meeting. :) The dinner was a credit to all concerned, so I thank everyone for their contribution to that too.

I enjoyed talking to our first "International Chapter" members, Colin and Rose, their Series2A/3/TDI was quite the expedition vehicle, was it not? We all had a good laugh when I asked them if they had journeyed through Persia and the Punjab to reach our shores....only to be told they got off the boat in Sydney! :D :p

I took some photos last night, so allow me to share these with everyone. Apologies for the quality of these, the photographer was clearly enjoying his non designated driver status, and with Kat 2000km away in Bendigo, why not? :BigThumb:

Colin and Rose tell it as it is....

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/7669/img1125z.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/img1125z.jpg/)

No guesses from whence they came....

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9338/img1122q.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/339/img1122q.jpg/)

Colin explained that as their truck had become their home, their chesterfield had become their bed....

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/4682/img1121k.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/802/img1121k.jpg/)

The Wessex wanderer....

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/3392/img1119jv.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/845/img1119jv.jpg/)

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2946/img1124xz.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/97/img1124xz.jpg/)

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/7158/img1128gz.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/830/img1128gz.jpg/)

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/9527/img1127br.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/829/img1127br.jpg/)

One wouldn't want to get these 2 mixed up! So don't tell anyone that I swapped the labels over! :blink:

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4151/img1130w.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/269/img1130w.jpg/)

This is what a 300TDI looks like in a Series engine bay....

http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/196/img1129h.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/847/img1129h.jpg/)

We all settled in for a feast....:cool:

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5313/img1132lv.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/685/img1132lv.jpg/)

Our gracious hosts...

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6732/img1131d.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/337/img1131d.jpg/)

Our gracious host...

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5073/img1134m.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/440/img1134m.jpg/)

I'd also like to thank all the members who turned out and contributed to a great meeting. I like the way this operates, as a collective, with all the membership intimately involved in the details of our meetings. I think it will become very evident to all that SLOW is here to stay and we will become a very successful club. That is testimony to those who have included themselves in these activities. Thank you, everyone concerned. :)


Cheers

CC

[jerryd]

Thanks Col.Coleman, would be great to see their conversion and have a chat with them :) I've sent them a message.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Jerry

Are you going to change to 3.54 diff ratios?

What about the rear end, are you interested in a 3.54:1 sals out of a Stage 1?

I can bring it up to Dayboro in early dec if you want! :angel:

Diana :)

[jerryd]

Hi Diana, I've sent you an update via email :)