What engine is this & what might be the issue?

[jdobson]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/567.jpg

Sorry not the best picture, but would be great if someone could identify it for me, all I know is it's a 6 cylinder, 2.5 litre.

It's not running very well at the moment, fine when accelerating but when pulling away it's down on power and possibly misfiring. Will clean the plugs soon but if there's anything likely to be causing this problem all suggestions appreciating. It was running fine two days ago.

Cheers Jack

[langy]

Holden 161 or 179 engine. Should also be known as a 'grey motor'. EH ?

As with all old engines: plug gap, points, vacuum leaks, fuel leaks.

[101RRS]

I would also pick a 161 but a red motor - did the older grey motors get up to 161 size - I thought they were 149s.

Garry

[mudmouse]

The capacity (eg.179) is usually cast into the block in raised numbers about an inch tall. From memory down near the where the sump is mounted to the block - can't recall which side, but if you have a peek, you'll find it.

Matt.

[bee utey]

Well its a red motor, if the inlet manifold is original then its either a '68-on 138 (2250 Torana), 161 (2600), 173 (2850), 186 or 202 (3300). Of course if the manifold has been changed it could be a 149 or 179. The engine capacity is usually cast into the lower region of the block, under the manifold side from memory. The only engine without the engine size cast in is the "HP" block, usually a 149. The engine size in cubic inches also forms part of the engine number until the 161/186. Of course all the engines can be bored out to 192CI, with the exception of the 202 which can go a bit bigger, I can't remember by how much.

Multiply CI by 16.4 to get cm3. There is no 2.5 litre in that line-up, 149 is closest at 2.4.

Clear now?:D

[jdobson]

Hey thanks for the replies, I'll take a look for some numbers and get back to you. When it was running well it pulled like a train.

[lewy]

i reckon that the grey motor stopped at 138,the rest were red,and if it is a 202 it will have non adjustable tappets,hmmm havn't seen a chrome tappet cover in years:eek:

[Bigbjorn]

What is the engine number? This reveals all.

[wrinklearthur]

What is the engine number? This reveals all.
Hi All

AFAIK the grey motor had a side plate that came well up the side of the motor and also, the sparkplugs were fitted through holes in that plate.

With out pulling the sump off, the crank had four main bearings.

The lads, in days when I was a bit younger, used to hot these motors up, achieving some awesome horsepower from these little engines.
Triple SU's, port and polish, planed head, balanced crank, light weight pistons, matched conrods, dry sump, lightened flywheel, imported dizzy, extractors and chrome.

Cheers Arthur

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The grey motor also had a rounded rocker cover with a breather with what resembled a trumpet and a single engine mount under the front of the block.

[Bigbjorn]

The "grey" or sideplate engine is a totally different engine family. The one in the pictured 2A is a later engine family known as the "red" engine. It also came in blue and black but these were the same engine family. Post the engine number!!!!

[Davehoos]

Grey motor 130-138.
canadian grey castings can be a little bigger.

red go from 130-202.

might be the photo but it might be a crimson EH engine.

ID are cast on the block near the fuel pump but the engine number will tell you what it came from.

[wrinklearthur]

Hi All

The cast number showing the cubic inches, for the red motors is on the opposite side of the motor to the fuel pump and in about the same position, back from the front of the motor.
For the later blue and then the black motors, the cast number is in the same position but it was changed to show the capacity in cubic centimetres.

The only exception to this, AFAIR, is the high performance 179 red motor, it had HP displayed instead of a number.

I have had some time to study the photo and it is a red motor with the glass bowl on top of an earlier style fuel pump.
The inlet manifold has me a bit, as it is the same as on the later motors, the inlet manifolds didn't have a water heated jacket.

This motor also has positive crankcase ventilation, with the crankcase fumes directed via the PCV valve back into the throttle body and this is done to burn off any oil fumes, by feeding them into back the inlet manifold.

My guess it is a 161 cubic inch, 6 cylinder motor, that is the smaller motor of the pair of the sizes used at the time, the larger size was the 186.
So we will see when the engine number is given.

Cheers Arthur

[nicho]

Holden 161 or 179 engine. Should also be known as a 'grey motor'. EH ?

As with all old engines: plug gap, points, vacuum leaks, fuel leaks.

Difinately a red motor the grey motors had a larger more rounded rocker cover And stopped production with the EJ models in 1963 64, EH was the first of the red motors. Castings on the exhaust side of the block tell you the cubic inches and If you look at the engine number you can define cast crank or steel crank ie 186sxxxxxxxxxx also 179hp were at the time a high performance engine available in the EH s4 if you can tell me the engine number I can find out as much as my Holden library will tell me. The bad running could be a cracked or worn dizzy cap rotor button or points. Holden engines love correct timing And will run like a dream for months unchecked dizzy advance is generally at 6 to 8 degrees advanced. Pm me if you would like to know why to do to make it sing i can rebuild one of these blind folded

[wrinklearthur]

It's not running very well at the moment, fine when accelerating but when pulling away it's down on power and possibly misfiring. Will clean the plugs soon---- . Cheers Jack
Hello Jack

If the plugs are suspect, then it would be better to replace them altogether. Then the points are also something you should be replacing at the same time.

By renewing the most probable causes of problems first, makes the job of fault finding, much less of a hit or miss affair.

Another tip I can give you is, at night when its dark ,have the motor running and lift the bonnet, if you can see sparking around the high tension path, then those parts that are arcing across, should also be renewed.

Cheers Arthur

[PRONTO]

Well going by the colour (red) and the thermostat housing (if original) I would say (like other posts) it is a 149-186 (EH-HG - adjustable tappets) as the 173-202 (non-adjuatable tappets) is an 'orange' coloured engine. Ref the 'grey' motor much earlier 48-215/FX (132 CI) to EJ (138 CI). First 'red' motor 149/179 - (EH model).

An interesting point s that in the last 6 months of production of the HG commercials (van/utes) were fitted with 202 engines whilst gearing up for the HQ - I know as I had one factory fitted by Holden and always wondered why it had a 202 in a HG!

Pronto

[Bigbjorn]

An interesting point s that in the last 6 months of production of the HG commercials (van/utes) were fitted with 202 engines whilst gearing up for the HQ - I know as I had one factory fitted by Holden and always wondered why it had a 202 in a HG!

Pronto

At GM-H we made HG utes for some months after release of the car/wagon lines of the HQ. HQ utes were quite a different production task as they had a full separate chassis.

A lot of change went on within GM-H during this period. Bedford production was taken from state plants and centralised in Dandenong. Pagewood stopped assembling Torana and panel vans. Acacia Ridge assembled Torana and vans for NSW zone. Pagewood assembled Monaro, Statesman, and anything with a 350 engine for Qld. One tonners were made in Adelaide for all of Australia. Mosman Park plant in Perth was closed. Torana for Adelaide were assembled in Dandenong.

[jdobson]

I haven't had a chance to find the engine number (had a brief look but couldn't find it but sounds like I was looking in the wrong place).

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/313.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/314.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/315.jpg

Going to dedicate this weekend to finding out what's wrong with it. I think I'll give the carb a clean, replace the filters and replace the plugs and leads.. will I be able to buy these things from somewhere like Super Cheap Auto?

Thanks for all the comments and I shall definitely provide the engine number once I've found it!

Cheers Jack

[Bigbjorn]

I haven't had a chance to find the engine number (had a brief look but couldn't find it but sounds like I was looking in the wrong place).

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/313.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/314.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/315.jpg

Going to dedicate this weekend to finding out what's wrong with it. I think I'll give the carb a clean, replace the filters and replace the plugs and leads.. will I be able to buy these things from somewhere like Super Cheap Auto?

Thanks for all the comments and I shall definitely provide the engine number once I've found it!

Cheers Jack

The first photo shows the engine number but I can't read it. On the machined pad next to the RH engine mount and distributor. Rub it with chalk and it will be easy to read.

[Davehoos]

you might have to get a plug out to get the same type.

the plugs change a lot over time.

the carby is a twin barrel normally seen on 186 S HR-HG but some are fitted to smaller 161 in torana.

[mick88]

It might have a 186S in it!

Cheers, Mick.

[dandlandyman]

Look for the engine size casting behind the alternator, cast on the crankcase above the sump. I have seen one engine without a cast number, but if I recall correctly, it was a low compression 179. I have yet to see a 149, though. The engine numbers come in handy then, but bear in mind that EH engine numbers have a single letter prefix, not an engine size then single letter prefix.

The number cast on the inlet manifold is the part number for the manifold itself. Good luck.

Dan.
69 2A 88" pet4 (still in disguise), 68 2B FC pet6 (resting quietly), plus others, and more coming.

[jdobson]

Okay only numbers I could find on the block are, M158363 and 7429461. Hopefully one of them will reveal the identity..

Cheers Jack

[bee utey]

Okay only numbers I could find on the block are, M158363 and 7429461. Hopefully one of them will reveal the identity..

Cheers Jack

In a picture of yours, below, I can see part of the engine number! Look again, the number is stamped on an upwards facing flat area right next to the distributor clamping bolt. You can see part of the number just below the vacuum line to the distributor.

The engine capacity will be cast into the block on the opposite side, low down near the front of the engine, usually just behind the alternator.

Like this:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/973.jpg

[nicho]

If I remember rightly the engine number can be found on the top of the forging on the drivers side engine mount mounting point and will usually start with the engine size ie: 186s56737383 just as an example or 179P52637373 hope this helps and you can find that number so we can find out what you have there with the twin barrel stromberg as stated these normally only came with the infamous 186S and 161s from the GTR toranas HR X2 and for some lucky souls the 6cyl HK HT HG monaros. I'm hoping you get the engine number soon. Oh so you read the engine number easier a bit of emery paper over the area makes it easier to read

[nicho]

Ok sorry I missed a post
The M in the first number states its from an EH HOLDEN 1963-1965

179 cu
M
115 (86) @ 4000
175 (237) @ 1600 rpm
Of course with its age anything could have been changed as all the cylinder heads were interchangeable as we're inlet manifolds.

[nicho]

http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/holden_red_motor_engine_codes.htm

This should help to identify a few more Holden engines out there. It is missing the Torana engines but for the most part it should help

[Bigbjorn]

Look for the engine size casting behind the alternator, cast on the crankcase above the sump. I have seen one engine without a cast number, but if I recall correctly, it was a low compression 179. I have yet to see a 149, though. The engine numbers come in handy then, but bear in mind that EH engine numbers have a single letter prefix, not an engine size then single letter prefix.

The number cast on the inlet manifold is the part number for the manifold itself. Good luck.

Dan.
69 2A 88" pet4 (still in disguise), 68 2B FC pet6 (resting quietly), plus others, and more coming.

EH 149 high compression engine numbers began with the prefix H.

Edit:- If you have (very rare) a Holden engine with the suffix "R" after the numerals then the "R" means "R"epeat. This happened when the guy who stamped the number on the block casting forgot to cross it off the paperwork and did it again. Yes, the numbers were manually stamped.

[jdobson]

It's a Holden 186 with GTR intake manifold, Yella Terra cylinder head fitted with a twin barrel Stromberg.

Unfortunately it has just blown it's second head gasket. The first time I got a garage to carry out the work and they machined the head. This time round, in a bid to save money I am attempting to fix this myself. Hoping that the head has not warped.

Anyone got any tips for doing this? I have removed the head and tomorrow I will finish the work. I assume it's a failed head gasket and there aren't any other things I should check? Thermostat gasket? There's definitely water in the oil and steam coming out the exhaust.

[goingbush]

the engine number on all Holden Reds is here, using yr own photo

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/320.jpg

I must be getting old, when I went to school any kid could recognise a HoldenRed / Holden Grey/ Slant 6/ Hemi or Falcon engine from 100 yards in a moving school bus, I couldn't imagine anyone would not know a holden red just by looking.

Then again I would not know any front wheel drive car engine even if I tripped over it (unless it was from a mini)

[jerryd]

Just checked mine and it's a 186A 34293 so must be of 1966-68 vintage :)


Holden HR (http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/car_info_holden_hr.htm)

[Richard93Vogue]

I must be getting old, when I went to school any kid could recognise a
HoldenRed / Holden Grey/ Slant 6/ Hemi or Falcon engine from 100 yards in a
moving school bus, I couldn't imagine anyone would not know a holden red just by looking.


When I went to school, I used to be able to tell which bus (from a mixed fleet of early 60's to late 70's busses) was on my run when it was a couple of stops away by the different exhaust notes. (Beachmere Bus Lines in the 1980's)

[mick88]

EH 149 high compression engine numbers began with the prefix H.

Edit:- If you have (very rare) a Holden engine with the suffix "R" after the numerals then the "R" means "R"epeat. This happened when the guy who stamped the number on the block casting forgot to cross it off the paperwork and did it again. Yes, the numbers were manually stamped.

I have a red motor (186) that has the engine no starting with a V and ending with a P (V******P) which I am told is a number issued by Victoria Police. Vicroads tell me it was originally in a 1969 Holden sedan.
I am not sure why it has this number! I can only assume the same guy who stamped one or two donks twice with same number may have missed stamping this one!
Can you throw any light on it Brian?

Cheers, Mick.