Brake Controllers???

[3 Lions]

I am looking at shortly buying a camper trailer. It has now crossed my mind that I will need to buy a brake controller and have it fitted on my TD5 Defender.

Can anyone give any good advice or opinions or what to look for on a brake controller. I know bugger all about them apart from the fact that they control/operate your brakes.

I look forward with interest in reading some replies:D.......

Col.

[vogue]

Get a P3, so easy to use and adjust.
TEKONSHA P3 PRODIGY ELECTRIC TRAILER BRAKE CONTROLLER | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/190525258683?hlp=false)

[vogue]

Also join myswag.org - camper trailer forum, for all the help and ideas you need.

[gusthedog]

Thats a 2nd for the Tekonsha. I did 45000kms round Oz with one and had no drama with mine. And yes very easy to adjust.

Whatever model you get, make sure you get one that uses inertia (ie: is held in a spring-loaded base) so that as you apply the brakes more quickly, the brakes are also applied more heavily to the trailer. The old either only-on or only-off controllers are absolutely useless off road. Actually these older types are really dangerous in my opinion - especially in emergency stops on dirt whilst cows are stampeding your car (dont ask me how I know!):D

[gromit]

Thats a 2nd for the Tekonsha. I did 45000kms round Oz with one and had no drama with mine. And yes very easy to adjust.

Whatever model you get, make sure you get one that uses inertia (ie: is held in a spring-loaded base) so that as you apply the brakes more quickly, the brakes are also applied more heavily to the trailer. The old either only-on or only-off controllers are absolutely useless off road. Actually these older types are really dangerous in my opinion - especially in emergency stops on dirt whilst cows are stampeding your car (dont ask me how I know!):D

The pendulum type are best.

I had an on/off type unit fitted (for road use) on a Ford Territory and you could either set it up so the camper was trying to slow the car on braking or the car was struggling to brake the whole outfit. It was supplied as part of a towbar package and I had forgotten to specify 'pendulum'

I've used the Prodigy (Tekonsha) with success towing heavy trailers in a previous job. Current Territory has a Hayman Reese pendulum type which as yet is untested and my Defender has a different US made unit which works OK.

This thread could easily become an Engel vs Waeco type discussion because if you fit one and it works OK for you you would probably recommend it.

Tekonsha had a problems a few years ago with some units but this was resolved on later models.

Colin

[gusthedog]

Oh, I could have meant pendulum?! I'm not sure of the internals of the tekonsha - spring loaded could be my misinterpretation:angel:

[Hoges]

(ditto) Tekonsha P3. I bought an extra cradle and fitted it to a second vehicle. Takes 30 second to transfer between vehicles. Stores in its own carry case. Brilliant piece of kit... prices vary significantly, shop around incl. on ebay.
cheers

[isuzu110]

I installed a Tekonsha Primus IQ about 8 weeks ago and have just done 5500kms from Brisbane-Cairns-Brisbane etc. I installed it in the 300TDI Defender on the sloping front face of the centre cubby box no dramas.

I think I paid about $130 for it.

Easy to install and set up for the first time.

There's fancier ones out there, but for my CT, it's fine.

[robbotd5]

Tekonsha P3. I have fitted one to my D2a and we have a 23ft caravan. As said before, easy to adjust, good quality and a good price (off e bay) and easy to install. A lot of good features such as battery voltage and diagnostic values displayed on an LCD screen.
Regards
Robbo

[wardy1]

How heavy is the trailer?
Tekonsha is great for a 2T van, most trailers are less than 1500kg all up (very generous). I use a Redarc for my O'briens camper which is about 1100kg all up (water tank and gas full plus all the crap in the tool box) and it works a treat. Also made in Oz.

[Kandy]

Tekonsha P3. I have fitted one to my D2a and we have a 23ft caravan. As said before, easy to adjust, good quality and a good price (off e bay) and easy to install. A lot of good features such as battery voltage and diagnostic values displayed on an LCD screen.
Regards
Robbo

Hi Robbo,
Any suggestions on installation/ About to purchase one for the 1200k caravan.
Steve

[Beckford]

This thread could easily become an Engel vs Waeco type discussion because if you fit one and it works OK for you you would probably recommend it.

Correct. I use a standard Hayman Reese brake controller to tow a horse float. "Works ok."

Never towed a camper trailer.

[3 Lions]

Also join myswag.org - camper trailer forum, for all the help and ideas you need.

Already on 'myswag' forum, just wanted opinions from Defender owners as that I what I will be fitting it too.

Thanks anyway;)

[3 Lions]

How heavy is the trailer?
Tekonsha is great for a 2T van, most trailers are less than 1500kg all up (very generous). I use a Redarc for my O'briens camper which is about 1100kg all up (water tank and gas full plus all the crap in the tool box) and it works a treat. Also made in Oz.


The trailer will be around 850kgs empty, and then by the time you load water, gas bottles, jerry cans, food, and the grog maybe 1050-1100kgs.

Col:D

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Im watching this with interest... Im from the UK so know nothing of these types of controllers!

However, I think I will shortly be looking for a unit that could tow/stop a camper trailer (in the future) but more importantly needs to be suited to a loaded 4 horse float.

So, is weight of trailer an issue for these devices or are they all capable of working on any trailer?

Also, my 110 has the large 7 pin UK style electrical socket, will this need to be changed to one of the flat style that seem to be more common over here?

Sorry for the hi-jack!

Jon

[Ivan]

John

No need to change the socket. You can get the large 7 pin plug from Supacheap. Also if fitting a brake controller all you need to do is the following.
In the socket there are 2 feeds for left and right tail lights (pin5 and pin ???). You just join these 2 feeds into a single feed which leaves you pin 5 free. Then use pin 5 for the wire to the electric brakes on the trailer. This wire comes from the actual brake controller and determines how much force has been applied to the brakes. Most Aussi plugs are wired this way.

HTH

Ivan

[Yorkshire_Jon]

John

No need to change the socket. You can get the large 7 pin plug from Supacheap. Also if fitting a brake controller all you need to do is the following.
In the socket there are 2 feeds for left and right tail lights (pin5 and pin ???). You just join these 2 feeds into a single feed which leaves you pin 5 free. Then use pin 5 for the wire to the electric brakes on the trailer. This wire comes from the actual brake controller and determines how much force has been applied to the brakes. Most Aussi plugs are wired this way.

HTH

Ivan


Thanks Ivan. From your description above there is only 1 wire that goes from the controller to the trailer brakes / trailer mounted system, presumably the system is grounded via the ball and hitch?

Also, (apologies if this is a stupid question) the horse float that we would be towing is not ours - are all electric trailer brakes compatible with all controllers or do I need to find out what system the trailer has on it before choosing a controller?

Thx
J

[TonyC]

Thanks Ivan. From your description above there is only 1 wire that goes from the controller to the trailer brakes / trailer mounted system, presumably the system is grounded via the ball and hitch?

Also, (apologies if this is a stupid question) the horse float that we would be towing is not ours - are all electric trailer brakes compatible with all controllers or do I need to find out what system the trailer has on it before choosing a controller?

Thx
J

Hi Jon.
The trailer is earthed through the white wire in the plug, the coupling makes a very poor earth.

Have a look here for the Australian standard wiring for all the different plugs.
I assume you have a large round 7 pin

trailer wiring diagram (http://www.campertrailers.org/trailer_wiring_diagram.htm)

It this helps

Tony

[uninformed]

I'm on my 2nd tekonsha unit in 11 years and 250,000km of towing ;)

[peter5111]

Hi Jon.
The trailer is earthed through the white wire in the plug, the coupling makes a very poor earth.

Have a look here for the Australian standard wiring for all the different plugs.
I assume you have a large round 7 pin

trailer wiring diagram (http://www.campertrailers.org/trailer_wiring_diagram.htm)

It this helps

Tony

Also, make sure the white earth wire is of at least the same gauge as the brake wire. From memory the brake controllers can deliver up to 40 amps, so an 18 gauge earth wire isn't going to cut the mustard.

It would certainly be an eye opener to be under heavy brakes with four horses behind you, then have no trailer brakes at all because the earth wire has become a fusible link.

Speaking of a 4 horse float, what will be the gross weight of the trailer fully loaded ? I am not sure on the exact numbers, but above a certain GTM you must have brakes on All axles. And there is another weight figure above which, you must have a breakaway system that will stop the trailer within a certain distance And hold the trailer still for a defined minimum period of time on a slope.

What I am really trying to get at is towing a 4 horse float is not something to be taken lightly (no pun intended) and you really need to understand the legalities and physics.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Thanks Tony,
I'm used to towing 2 LARGE horses in the uk with an Ifor Williams braked trailer.

The lady who owns the float currently tows it behind her Range Rover, so I was assuming I could simply drop a brake controller onto the 110 and away we go, so to speak!

I am assuming the float is currently road legal as it has a current rego??

Are the brake away systems and other requirements you speak of functions of / equipment on the trailer or the towing vehicle? In short could I need more than simply a brake controller?

Thx
Jon

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[peter5111]

Thanks Tony,
I'm used to towing 2 LARGE horses in the uk with an Ifor Williams braked trailer.

The lady who owns the float currently tows it behind her Range Rover, so I was assuming I could simply drop a brake controller onto the 110 and away we go, so to speak!

I am assuming the float is currently road legal as it has a current rego??

Are the brake away systems and other requirements you speak of functions of / equipment on the trailer or the towing vehicle? In short could I need more than simply a brake controller?

Thx
Jon

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G'day Jon,

You, as the driver are ultimately responsible for the safe and legal vehicle / trailer combination. I am certainly NOT suggesting the trailer is illegal, only that you need to satisfy your own conscience that the combination you are in control of, meets current regulations.

I am in SA, so I don't know the specifics of now the NSW trailer rego system works. But here there are no annual inspections of small trailers so it is entirely possible to have a trailer with current rego that is not technically roadworthy.

Breakaway systems are matched to the type of braking system. For electric brakes there is usually a lead acid battery mounted somewhere on the trailer that is kept charged through the Aux circuit. The system has a 'normally closed' switch that is held open by a safety lanyard attached to the towing vehicle. If the trailer should part company with the vehicle, the lanyard is pulled out of the breakaway controller, connecting the battery directly to the electric brakes. The brakes come on full and stay on until the battery is discharged or the lanyard is reconnected.

Overall GTM will dictate whether or not the trailer needs a breakaway controller to be legal (and safe).

To answer your last question, if the trailer is currently setup for electric brakes then you just need an electric brake controller that is capable of delivering sufficient amps. Most controllers should be more than capable, but it is a question that ought to be in the back of your mind if the float is a 3 axle, with brakes on all axles. From (dim) memory, each brake solenoid can draw upwards of 15 amps, so 30 amps per axle for heavy braking.

If the float has a breakaway controller, then you should also ensure your vehicle delivers whatever charge current the breakaway unit is expecting.

Regards,
Pete

Old NSW light trailer regulations (http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vib03.pdf)
Post 1990 NSW light trailer regulations (http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/vsb1/pdf/vsb01_June2009.pdf)

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Thanks Pete. I'll have a read of the links you provided and do a bit more searching on current regs and I think see about getting the trailer inspected, just to be on the safe side - I'm happy it's road worthy from a horse & structural perspective, but not a legal one.

Thx again.
Jon

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[Beckford]

Im watching this with interest... Im from the UK so know nothing of these types of controllers!

However, I think I will shortly be looking for a unit that could tow/stop a camper trailer (in the future) but more importantly needs to be suited to a loaded 4 horse float.....

Float is say 1000kg + 4 horses x say 600kg = 3,400kg? Have you thought about a getting horse truck or goose neck trailer (5th wheeler)? Or make 2 trips with a smaller float?

(I now have the same problem. The SWMBO has 2 horses + a pony and we only have a 2 horse float. Can't afford to upgrade to anything at the moment.)

You can buy trailer plug adapters from Supercheap or BCF, or make your own adapter. We used to use an adapter on the Stage 1 V8 Landrover we had on loan when towing the horse float or box trailer.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Float is say 1000kg + 4 horses x say 600kg = 3,400kg? Have you thought about a getting horse truck or goose neck trailer (5th wheeler)? Or make 2 trips with a smaller float?

(I now have the same problem. The SWMBO has 2 horses + a pony and we only have a 2 horse float. Can't afford to upgrade to anything at the moment.)

You can buy trailer plug adapters from Supercheap or BCF, or make your own adapter. We used to use an adapter on the Stage 1 V8 Landrover we had on loan when towing the horse float or box trailer.

5th wheeler etc is out of the question - need to use what we have. Fortunately none of the horses over here are over 16.2, so none are massive and thus weight I dont think is a big problem (appart from finding out the legalities of brake-aways etc etc). The weekend comp's that mrs Yorkshire_Jon does often involve 7 or 8 horses (friends as well), so we do multiple trips already - fortunately though its not often we need to go far with more than 3.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Has anyone used one of REDArc brake controllers? If so any thoughts / comments?

EB Series Trailer Brake Controller | Redarc Electronics (http://redarc.com.au/products-and-services/trailer-brake-products/eb-series-trailer-brake-controller)

I like the idea that the unit could be burried in the dash of the TD5 out of sight and the switch and dial be cut into 2 of the spare dashboard switch blanks.

On the other hand, i dont know if this would be suitable for a horse float, or just a light camper trailer (as shown on the website)?

Thx
Jon

[TonyC]

You can buy trailer plug adapters from Supercheap or BCF, or make your own adapter. We used to use an adapter on the Stage 1 V8 Landrover we had on loan when towing the horse float or box trailer.

I personally wouldn't run your brakes through adaptors, more voltage drop and more failure points on something as critical brakes, particularly on something as heavy as a four horse float.

Tony

[101RRS]

Has anyone used one of REDArc brake controllers? If so any thoughts / comments?

EB Series Trailer Brake Controller | Redarc Electronics (http://redarc.com.au/products-and-services/trailer-brake-products/eb-series-trailer-brake-controller)



These are non proportional - in that when you apply the brakes the braking effort on the trailer is the same no matter how hard or soft you apply the brakes. You can of course adjust braking from the cabin or hit the emergency button and get full braking.

So if you are happy with that then they are OK.

Garry

[drivesafe]

Hi Jon and you better have a look at the link below, it only applies to NSW registered vehicles.

Take particular notice of the last sentence in the 3rd paragraph.

This is about the requirement to have an indicator in the tow vehicle that shows that the breakaway battery is in a good state of charger and not having this indicator while towing a trailer in NSW, could get you a defect notice.


http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vib_06_-_guidelines_for_light_vehicle_modifications_nov_20 07.pdf

[Beckford]

5th wheeler etc is out of the question - need to use what we have. Fortunately none of the horses over here are over 16.2, so none are massive and thus weight I dont think is a big problem (appart from finding out the legalities of brake-aways etc etc). The weekend comp's that mrs Yorkshire_Jon does often involve 7 or 8 horses (friends as well), so we do multiple trips already - fortunately though its not often we need to go far with more than 3.

Sounds like Mrs Yorkshire_Jon is into eventing.Your'e right they are probably not that heavy. Say 500kg each?

If you had 4 big warmbloods, I would be worried about your Landy. Say 700kg each?

We also just use what we have. I dream of a horse truck with accomodation I can hide in at events.....

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Hi Jon and you better have a look at the link below, it only applies to NSW registered vehicles.

Take particular notice of the last sentence in the 3rd paragraph.

This is about the requirement to have an indicator in the tow vehicle that shows that the breakaway battery is in a good state of charger and not having this indicator while towing a trailer in NSW, could get you a defect notice.


http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vib_06_-_guidelines_for_light_vehicle_modifications_nov_20 07.pdf


Nothing is ever straight forward is it!?!?

I read the link above and it talks about GTM.

The link below defines GTM...
Trailer & Tow vehicle specifications explained | Motoring | RACQ (http://www.racq.com.au/motoring/driving/towing/trailer__and__tow_vehicle_specifications_explained )

Now, Im pretty sure the float in question doesnt have an onboard battery (need to check). Also, the axles are located well back of centre, meaning a heavy (by UK standards / trailer design) nose weight.

So now, I need to ascertain if the float does indeed have a battery fitted and if not, take it to a weighbridge with horses aboard:mad:.

I have a sneaking suspiscion that with the wheels being positioned so far back, even fully loaded will come in under 2T GTM. Need to check!

Thanks
J

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Ok, so Ive ordered a P3 - should have it in the next day or so.

If possible though I need the thing working before friday night, ready for an event this weekend.

I suspect the unit will need a 12V feed & earth and also a feed from the cars brake pedal / stop light circuit. The other wire(s) I believe will be to the trailer plug.

So in the interest of a quick install, Ive been thinking... The trailer plug has been covered earlier in the post, but how do people normally wire these things up in a Defender - Where is the easiest place to splice into the existing car loom - Im specifically thinking about the stop light circuit rather than the 12v feed to the P3.

Thx,
Jon

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Ive just answered my own question! I can take the stop light feed from the trailer plug, no need to splice C0029 plug behind the brake servo!

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Ive got another question after reading a post on here about controllers flattening your battery while vehicles left standing...

I was going to feed the 12V direct from the battery (permanent live & fused etc), but now I'm thinking it should be a switched live. Question is where can I take a switched live from that would be capable if delivering another 20A without melting wires?

I'm thinking a normal / low current switched supply via a relay??

How does everyone else feed the controller with enough juice?

Thx
Jon

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[Yorkie]

Ive got another question after reading a post on here about controllers flattening your battery while vehicles left standing...

I was going to feed the 12V direct from the battery (permanent live & fused etc), but now I'm thinking it should be a switched live. Question is where can I take a switched live from that would be capable if delivering another 20A without melting wires?

I'm thinking a normal / low current switched supply via a relay??

How does everyone else feed the controller with enough juice?

Thx
Jon

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my p3 controller turned off after 15mins (wired to main battery) so little chance you battery would be flat, but thats in a d2 that has all the other electrickery you fender owners miss out on. :)

[peter5111]

From another, current brake controller topic on the forum:

The controller needs to fed directly from the battery with a self-resetting breaker (to be legal)

My Prodigy goes into a low power sleep-mode if the brakes have not been touched for several minutes. I don't have the documentation handy, nor have I done any measurements, but I would be surprised if the controller draws more than a few mA in sleep mode.

Pretty sure Tekonsha would have been quite careful about that.

I believe the D2 ABS module has a continuous load significantly greater than that even with ignition off. As long as the vehicle gets driven at least once every few weeks you should be fine. If you were parking it for 6 months then I would disconnect the battery regardless of vehicle type.

Pete

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Thanks.

Pin 7 and Pin 5 are my tail light circuits on the car.

Should I connect the cable that currently goes to pin 5 to pin 7 (two 12v feeds would then go into pin 7), or just disconnect pin 5 to make way for the trailer feed?

Thx
Jon

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[sniegy]

Jon,
All LR vehicle wiring has 2 park light circuits as you have said (Pins 5 & 7)
Just cut/disconnect the wire that goes to pin 5 & join/connect the blue wire into pin 5.
We have had many Newer vehicles that have had ETB wired to them & the 2nd park light circuit has NOT been disconnected! On the Newer vehicles they have a wonderful thing called Auto lights.
.
.
.
.
So when a client connects his wonderful new trailer, sets off on his journey, has the lights set to Auto...
.
.
.
And then hits the fisrt bridge he goes under & the lights turn on (which just happens to feed pin 5)...
.
.
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All hell brakes loose as the brakes LOCK up on the trailer, smoke pouring from the little magnets...

Ahh the joys...;):p

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Thanks sniegy,
I've removed pin 5 tail light feed & left Pin 7 as it was.

Pin 5 now has the blue trailer brake feed in it.

The spare tail light feed (was pin 5) is no longer used.

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