Best Engine Oil For Puma

[Allan]

I know this has probably been done to death but what oil should I be useing in the Puma's engine when I start serviceing it myself next month. Yesterday I read a post recomending Castrol Edge 0W-40,API SM/CF ACEA A3/B3/B4/C2,C3 engine oil, today, on a UK post, (Quote) The oil is Castrol Magnatec 5W-30 A1 Fully Synthetic Engine Oil (Recommended by Ford) The Castrol reference guide makes a note regarding filter type also on the guide regarding Castol Edge , but I could not get any answer from a retailer regarding this. I intend to continue using genuine fillters but I am very confused with type of the oil to use. Don't want a very expensive error.

Allan

[Loubrey]

Allan,

I would personally stick to what Land Rover Australia and for that matter Castrol Australia recommends. Conditions like temperature, both - ambient and operating, chemical makeup of fuel etc all plays a part and what is recommended in Europe is not necessarily applicable over here.

I’m sure Rick and the oil gurus will have the correct technical reasons and no doubt similar spec alternatives, but I’m comfortable (possibly naive?) enough to keep to the Castrol product specified by Castrol Australia.

There's a good chance that Naks over in South Africa will be able to tell you that a different spec of Castrol is used over there as well.

[rick130]

A number of Castrol UK's oils aren't comparable to what Castrol Oz blend/market, Magnatec 5W-30 being one (AFAIK)
Just did some checking and Castrol have just released a 5W-30 Magnatec but it's only a semi-syn (I'm guessing the ester part is the only syn bit) and it doesn't carry an ACEA C1 or Ford approval

As Loubrey said, the best thing is to go off their product recommendation, although it does seem odd that they recommend Edge 0W-40 as the Ford spec is for an ultra low SAPS oil.

AFAIK the correct Castol oil is Edge Professional C1 5W-30, but you will probably only be able to buy this in 205l drums and maybe 20l drums, maybe.
http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf%5C10617_Castrol_EDGE_Professional_C1_5W-30_3372271_2011_09.pdf

Never, ever ask a retailer or even a mechanic for oil advice, they have no idea when it comes to lubes, and that includes dealers IMO.
Ring the oil companies tech lines and pin them down if their recommendation meets/is licensed for the appropriate engine spec (or whatever it is that's being lubricated)

[pushrod]

.. i just did an oil change on my 2011 puma..
after lots of research and talking to Castrol i went for

Castrol SLX professional 5w/30 OE - its fully synthetic..
only comes in 20l drums and castrol order code is 119563 - $264 inc gst

most places can order it for you...

[Naks]

There's a good chance that Naks over in South Africa will be able to tell you that a different spec of Castrol is used over there as well.

LRSA specifies Castrol Magnatec A1 Professional 5w30, and that's what I use, only because there is no other oil conforming to the Ford WSS-M2C-913C spec for the Puma engine.

However, there have been reports from a couple of users that their dealers used other oils. One reported Castrol SLX Professional 5W30 and another one reported Mobil 1 0W40, neither of which conform to WSS-M2C-913C.


Find the best oil you can buy that conforms to WSS-M2C-913C. AFAIK, there is a Penrite 5w40 that conforms to WSS-M2C-913B, that should do it :)

[rick130]

.. i just did an oil change on my 2011 puma..
after lots of research and talking to Castrol i went for

Castrol SLX professional 5w/30 OE - its fully synthetic..
only comes in 20l drums and castrol order code is 119563 - $264 inc gst

most places can order it for you...

That'd probably work OK but it's technically a VW spec oil, the one I've listed above is specifically recommended for the J/LR diesels.

Ford call for an extremely low SAPS level, much lower than other manufacturers.
The ACEA equivalent blend is rated C1, (ultra low SAPS) SLX Pro is a C3 brew.

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/tech_pdfs/142%20ACEA%20C1%20to%20C4%20AND%20ENVIRO%20APPLICA TIONS.pdf

The Ford spec seems to be short of AW additives but I don't know enough about these oils or the engines so shouldn't hazard any comments on them other than to say the manufacturers know a hell of a lot more about their oils and engines these days than us interweb jockeys.

[rick130]

LRSA specifies Castrol Magnatec A1 Professional 5w30, and that's what I use, only because there is no other oil conforming to the Ford WSS-M2C-913C spec for the Puma engine.

However, there have been reports from a couple of users that their dealers used other oils. One reported Castrol SLX Professional 5W30 and another one reported Mobil 1 0W40, neither of which conform to WSS-M2C-913C.


Find the best oil you can buy that conforms to WSS-M2C-913C. AFAIK, there is a Penrite 5w40 that conforms to WSS-M2C-913B, that should do it :)

The oil I linked to above is Ford, Jaguar and Land Rover approved (although the spec sheet only lists the 'B' spec) not a mealy mouthed 'meets xyz spec'

[pushrod]

thanks for explaining that Rick..
wish someone at Castrol mentioned the C1 Edge Pro oil to me.
makes me feel like now i put the "bad" stuff in.. :confused:

[rick130]

thanks for explaining that Rick..
wish someone at Castrol mentioned the C1 Edge Pro oil to me.
makes me feel like now i put the "bad" stuff in.. :confused:

I wouldn't sweat it (and I'm a worry wart :D )

Does the TDCi have a DPF ?

[PAT303]

No DPF Rick,they make an appearance in the 2.2. Pat

[rick130]

The main reason for the ultra low SAPS levels is to limit buildup in the DPF and CAT, so unless I'm really off track I wouldn't worry about using a mid level SAPS oil in the TDCi.

[Naks]

The oil I linked to above is Ford, Jaguar and Land Rover approved (although the spec sheet only lists the 'B' spec) not a mealy mouthed 'meets xyz spec'


That oil conforms to Ford WSS-M2C-934-B, not WSS-M2C-913-B.

Just be careful if your truck is still under warranty and you use a different spec oil. Should anything happen to the engine, LR can refuse a warranty claim based on this.

[Allan]

The main reason for the ultra low SAPS levels is to limit buildup in the DPF and CAT, so unless I'm really off track I wouldn't worry about using a mid level SAPS oil in the TDCi.


Mine is 2008, if I De Cat are my options more open.

Allan

[rick130]

That oil conforms to Ford WSS-M2C-934-B, not WSS-M2C-913-B.

Just be careful if your truck is still under warranty and you use a different spec oil. Should anything happen to the engine, LR can refuse a warranty claim based on this.

So the '913' is the actual Ford spec for the 2.4, not the '934' ?

If so, looky what I found.

Magnatec Professional.

http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf/8907_Magnatec%20Professional%20A1%205W-30.pdf

Also Lubri-Moly http://www.liqui-moly.com.au/products/ (2nd brew down, 'B' spec)

Other than that, who else ?

God these specs make things confusing, and from a servicing position it's a nightmare.

[edit] It's even a limited range of lubricants in the UK http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-1251-wss-m2c-913-c.aspx

The latest Ford '913-C' spec is very similar to the ACEA A5/B5-08 spec oils according to this specification overview from Lubrizol (one of the worlds largest additive suppliers to oil companies) http://www.lubrizol.com/TwoColumnACEA2008.aspx?id=35104&terms=WSS-M2C913-C
My reading is that it's ostensibly a fuel economy oil (HTHS above 2.9mPa, below 3.5mPa) with low deposits, you really wouldn't use it in an engine that wasn't designed for that oil.

I've linked to this doc before, it lists Fords reasons for going down this path with their engine oils http://www.atiel.org/members/pdf_files/ACEA%20Stow.pdf

[LRO53]

Penrite HPR Diesel 5 meets

Ford M2C153-G/H - This one actually is a Fully Synthetic spec and the HPR Semi meets it!
M2C171-C
Ford M2C-913-B

One of those is for the TDV6 in the RR and Disco3/4.

So i gather it should be easily suitable for a 4 pot ford transit engine.

[P38ace]

There are many thousands of opinions to be found on the internet on "the best oil" for whatever. Myself I prefer to use what the vehicle manufacturer recommends and ignore all the technobabble and even advice from the oil company representatives who are often just reading from an application guide and know little of the subject.

In my Australian handbook LR (the COMPANY, not the dealer) state Ford WSS-M2C-913C so that is what I use. Whether it's perfect for Australian conditions or not is not my concern, nor can I ascertain what may constitute a better product given the infinite variables and alternatives. So for peace of mind manufacturer’s spec it is, and it must state compliance on the tin.

Finding Ford WSS-M2C-913C in Australia was the problem. Commonly known as ‘Formula F’ in Europe, Ford Australia don’t sell it. Neither did my dealer.

I searched for months and eventually found Castrol Magnatec A5 Professional 5W-30. Note that it is A5 in Australia, not A1. I would add that even the Castrol helpdesk that I spoke to did not reveal its existence but it is out there if you know what to ask for.

So here it is, the Puma 'Holy Grail', maybe that should be 'holy oil', made specifically to meet the Ford spec. :D

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/989.jpg

[Loubrey]

Rick if this lot confuses you the rest of us (most...) are completely snookered! :eek:

So, say we stick to Castrol, which one would be firstly approved and secondly be best on specification:

· Edge Professional C1 5W30
· Magnatec Professional A1 5W30

I live in the sticks up here and I want to order a 20 liter drum or two to keep for intermediate oil changes, but I’ve got 18 months of warranty left that I would like to keep intact.

Cheers,

Lou

[rick130]

[snip]

I searched for months and eventually found Castrol Magnatec A5 Professional 5W-30. Note that it is A5 in Australia, not A1. I would add that even the Castrol helpdesk that I spoke to did not reveal its existence but it is out there if you know what to ask for.

So here it is, the Puma 'Holy Grail', maybe that should be 'holy oil', made specifically to meet the Ford spec. :D

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/


And listed two posts above ;)

BTW, how on earth is someone supposed to meet warranty requirements if LR or Ford don't even stock the stuff ?

[edit] actually it's the same situation with the g/box oil too, and the PDF spec sheet above for the Castrol Mag Pro is a Kiwi sheet hosted on Castrol Au's website, the correct sheet is here http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf/10644_Magnatec_Professional_A5_5W-30_467018_2010_11.pdf

[Allan]

There are many thousands of opinions to be found on the internet on "the best oil" for whatever. Myself I prefer to use what the vehicle manufacturer recommends and ignore all the technobabble and even advice from the oil company representatives who are often just reading from an application guide and know little of the subject.

In my Australian handbook LR (the COMPANY, not the dealer) state Ford WSS-M2C-913C so that is what I use. Whether it's perfect for Australian conditions or not is not my concern, nor can I ascertain what may constitute a better product given the infinite variables and alternatives. So for peace of mind manufacturer’s spec it is, and it must state compliance on the tin.

Finding Ford WSS-M2C-913C in Australia was the problem. Commonly known as ‘Formula F’ in Europe, Ford Australia don’t sell it. Neither did my dealer.

I searched for months and eventually found Castrol Magnatec A5 Professional 5W-30. Note that it is A5 in Australia, not A1. I would add that even the Castrol helpdesk that I spoke to did not reveal its existence but it is out there if you know what to ask for.

So here it is, the Puma 'Holy Grail', maybe that should be 'holy oil', made specifically to meet the Ford spec. :D

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/989.jpg

May I ask what price the 20ltr drum is and how long after ordering it does it become "available" as in W.A. I would have to wait a week or so longer I would think. I am about to remove the cat convertor on my bus , does this give a better range of oils to choose from.

Allan

[P38ace]

I've only bought the one tin so far and did not have to order it. I found it by chance, sitting on the shelf at Qld Diesel Spares, so I'd say try your local truck supplies factor first. It was about $310 for the 20 litres.

One of the reasons it aint cheap is because it's a long life oil and the change interval is 20,000 km. I service by the book or I would not be buying this oil.

It's still cheaper than some of the alternatives championed here. It is also an energy conserving oil so the theory is you save the world and reduce your fuel bill in the process. :)

My friendly dealer however still recommends 12,000 km oil change intervals. Why? Is it just habit, does he need the business, or is it because he may not use the correct oil.

Oil has no bearing on the cat. The Ford oil is suitable for DPF systems but you don't have one to worry about in the 2.4 Puma. That becomes a new problem with the 2012 EU6 2.2 motor.

I'll close by saying that if you want to use any other oil than the one specified then you can, but it's based on you own judgement of often conflicting and hearsay advice received from others. This leaves the onus of getting it right upon yourself.

[rick130]

[snip]
Oil has no bearing on the cat.
[snip]

[snip]

I think you'll find higher sulphated ash levels tend to reduce cat life too, but the reduced ash levels are so the DPF can regenerate properly (burn off the soot) which the metallic ash additives can't do.

When I started buying Delvac 1 ten years ago it was $310/20 litres, but most of the full syn 100,000km oils have dramatically dropped in price over the last decade.
Currently running Diesel SP in my old fashioned engines here, which is a low SAPS oil (1.05%) 10W-40 ACEA E4/E6/E7 (100,000km in over the road trucks with oil analysis) and last purchase was $167, but as you say, $310 is the cost to keep warranty.

[Naks]

My friendly dealer however still recommends 12,000 km oil change intervals. Why? Is it just habit, does he need the business, or is it because he may not use the correct oil.

I change the oil every 10,000km and after every long trip. This is mainly due to the poor quality diesel we have in South Africa - unless you are in a major city, it is very hard to find 50ppm diesel.

[rick130]

I change the oil every 10,000km and after every long trip. This is mainly due to the poor quality diesel we have in South Africa - unless you are in a major city, it is very hard to find 50ppm diesel.

Probably wise, although as I've mentioned in other posts we used to go 20,000km easily in a TD42T on 500ppm sulphur fuel with a fully synthetic oil that had a TBN of around 12 (10.5 litre sump)

Interestingly 15,000km was the limit in a Tdi, 17,500km was a stretch too far, the oil didn't look very flash at all after testing.

While the TDi is direct injected vs indirect for the Nissan it appeared to me a decent sump capacity and a not as hard working engine made life much easier for the oil moreso than the sulphur level if it starts out with a decent TBN. (and TBN never dropped much, even with the 500ppm fuel)

[rick130]

and thanks to Naks pointing out that the Edge Professional above is a WSS-M2C-934-B spec oil which is for the V6/V8 engines, not the four cylinder, even though Castrol claim it for the 2.4l in their spec sheet.

There are some other oils that meet the WSS-M2C-934-B spec here in Oz, eg Mobil Super FE Special 5W-30, Caltex Havoline Energy 5W-30 and Shell Helix HX7 AF 5W-30, but whether they've been updated to the 'C' specification you wouldn't know unless checking on the drum or ask the oil company.
I had a number of Delvac 1 drums years ago that only listed the CI-4 spec while the spec sheet listed CI-4+.
Stock sits around for a while in small markets.
Liqui-Moly have an appropriate oil, but I don't think it's widely available here but a phone call would ascertain that pretty quickly.

Naks, we've had this same discussion before http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/121085-diy-oil-change-puma-dont-use-just-any-old-oil-post1409167.html#post1409167 :D

I keep suggesting to the girls in the local nursing home to start preparing a room for me, I didn't remember a single post :(

[Bundalene]

There are many thousands of opinions to be found on the internet on "the best oil" for whatever. Myself I prefer to use what the vehicle manufacturer recommends and ignore all the technobabble and even advice from the oil company representatives who are often just reading from an application guide and know little of the subject.

In my Australian handbook LR (the COMPANY, not the dealer) state Ford WSS-M2C-913C so that is what I use. Whether it's perfect for Australian conditions or not is not my concern, nor can I ascertain what may constitute a better product given the infinite variables and alternatives. So for peace of mind manufacturer’s spec it is, and it must state compliance on the tin.

Finding Ford WSS-M2C-913C in Australia was the problem. Commonly known as ‘Formula F’ in Europe, Ford Australia don’t sell it. Neither did my dealer.

I searched for months and eventually found Castrol Magnatec A5 Professional 5W-30. Note that it is A5 in Australia, not A1. I would add that even the Castrol helpdesk that I spoke to did not reveal its existence but it is out there if you know what to ask for.

So here it is, the Puma 'Holy Grail', maybe that should be 'holy oil', made specifically to meet the Ford spec. :D

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/[img]http://www.defender2.net/gallery/albums/userpics/11339/photo%7E0.JPGhttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/989.jpg





I have come across an oil supplier In western Sydney, the Green Goanna, who sell a whole range of oils - Castrol, Shell, Mobil. .... and have just ordered a 20l drom of the Castrol Magnatec Professional A5 5W30 for $250, which was more than $50 less than the next quote. They will also sell a 3 x 5 litre pack of Shell Helix HX7 AF 5W30 (fully synthetic) for $180, about the same price and keep this Shell oil on the shelf.



Green Goanna | The Oil Specialist (http://www.greengoanna.com.au/Green_Goanna/Green_Goanna___The_Oil_Specialist.html)

Erich

[newhue]

Rehashing an oldie but a goodie.

I rang Castrol technical today regarding Tdci 2.4lt engine oil requirements. I was told Edge Professional C1 5W-30 was the correct oil. I said I had a drum of below Magnatec Professional A5 5W-30 and he said that would do for a 2.2lt, but not the 2.4lt.

His advice was "the 2.4 requires the C1 rating to cope with the Catalytic converter, other wise it soots it up and causes problems. However the 2.2 can use both Magnatec or Edge professional oils." Go figure because it has a CAT as well.

Upon reading this thread again I wondered if service agents who use various oils incorrectly, could be responsible for some of the EGR valve failings with the Tdci. Not sure if I'm on the right track however.

I also noticed in my owners manual, the specification is WSS-M2C913-B, not the C on the Magnatec drum pictured in this thread. Weather thats makes any difference I have no idea.

I purchased a 20lt drum of the Magnatec for $291, but have returned it for the Edge which is a whopping $350. Make sure you choose wisely or be happy with what you bought. Castrol charge a restocking fee if incorrectly ordered.

[Naks]

His advice was the 2.4 requires the C1 rating to cope with the Catalytic converter, other wise it soots it up and causes problems. However the 2.2 can use both Magnatec or Edge professional olis. Go figure because it has a CAT as well.


I call horse manure!



I also noticed in my owners manual, the specification is WSS-M2C913-B, not the C on the Magnatec drum pictured in this thread. Weather thats makes any difference I have no idea.


913C supersedes and is backwards compatible with 913B, so you should use that

All the stealers in South Africa use only the Castrol Magnatec A5 for the Puma. LRSA has a deal with Castol NOT to sell it to individuals, not even in bulk. You have to buy it from the stealer at the ridiculous price of ZAR119/L! As soon as mine is out of warranty, I'm dumping Castrol for the 913C spec Liqui-Moly ;)

[Dockstrada]

I just called Landrover Service dep ,I asked what they use , the came back with Mobil 1 0W-40

http://www.mobil1.com.au/products/product_0W40.aspx

I asked if I use the castrol brand and his reply was "if you like" but thats what we use in all the Defenders .

[harro]

[quote=rick130;1563893]and thanks to Naks pointing out that the Edge Professional above is a WSS-M2C-934-B spec oil which is for the V6/V8 engines, not the four cylinder, even though Castrol claim it for the 2.4l in their spec sheet.

There are some other oils that meet the WSS-M2C-934-B spec here in Oz, eg Mobil Super FE Special 5W-30, Caltex Havoline Energy 5W-30 and Shell Helix HX7 AF 5W-30, but whether they've been updated to the 'C' )




Hi Rick, I have been following this thread with interest (although I have a td5)
and regularly see 5 or 10w/30 recommended but I have always steered clear of the 30 because I understood this to mean a max ambient of 40 degrees and we are quite often driving in plus 40 up here for prolonged periods.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/08/467.jpg

Have I misunderstood this spec or should I be looking at ?w/40 or above as I have been doing?
I assume this applies to the Puma's as well.

Cheers,
Paul.

[Dockstrada]

I have been talking to the castrol tech and he refered me to this PDF .
He was waffling on about the catalytic converters and how the low addative content of the Edge will not choke up the C/C .

If you look under Product Application , it lists the Land Rover recomended engines .

Just To make sure,I called another dealer "Purnell Motors" today and he also stated the Castrol Edge is the only product up to the job .


http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf/10617_Castrol_EDGE_Professional_C1_5W-30_3372271_2011_09.pdf

Any how Just ordered a drum of Edge Pro CI 5W-30 over the Magnatec under the recomendation of the castrol Tech .

[rick130]

[quote=rick130;1563893]and thanks to Naks pointing out that the Edge Professional above is a WSS-M2C-934-B spec oil which is for the V6/V8 engines, not the four cylinder, even though Castrol claim it for the 2.4l in their spec sheet.

There are some other oils that meet the WSS-M2C-934-B spec here in Oz, eg Mobil Super FE Special 5W-30, Caltex Havoline Energy 5W-30 and Shell Helix HX7 AF 5W-30, but whether they've been updated to the 'C' )




Hi Rick, I have been following this thread with interest (although I have a td5)
and regularly see 5 or 10w/30 recommended but I have always steered clear of the 30 because I understood this to mean a max ambient of 40 degrees and we are quite often driving in plus 40 up here for prolonged periods.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/08/467.jpg

Have I misunderstood this spec or should I be looking at ?w/40 or above as I have been doing?
I assume this applies to the Puma's as well.

Cheers,
Paul.

In all seriousness I'd use a good syn HD 5/10W-40 in a TD5, just because HD (as in API CI-4+/CJ-4/ ACEA E5/E7/E9) 5W-30's are as rare as rocking horse droppings in this part of the world.

The add pack is just that bit more (or maybe quite a bit more) robust than a dual rated SM/CF 0/5W-40 and as some TD5's have had problems with cam lobes I'd go for the HD oil every time.
The lobes for the injectors in particular I'm guessing have a hard time.

The TDci is designed by Ford for a really low SAPS oil and i don't know enough to say whether it's adequate or not.

[rick130]

I have been talking to the castrol tech and he refered me to this PDF .
He was waffling on about the catalytic converters and how the low addative content of the Edge will not choke up the C/C .

If you look under Product Application , it lists the Land Rover recomended engines .

Just To make sure,I called another dealer "Purnell Motors" today and he also stated the Castrol Edge is the only product up to the job .


http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf/10617_Castrol_EDGE_Professional_C1_5W-30_3372271_2011_09.pdf

Any how Just ordered a drum of Edge Pro CI 5W-30 over the Magnatec under the recomendation of the castrol Tech .

It meets the wrong specs, re-read the thread, that oil you've linked to is specced for the TDV6, not the four cylinder engine, the Magnatec lists the correct Ford spec.

It's not going to harm anything but it just shows how frigging confusing (and stupid) this whole "a specific oil for a specific engine" thing is becoming.

[Dockstrada]

It meets the wrong specs, re-read the thread, that oil you've linked to is specced for the TDV6, not the four cylinder engine, the Magnatec lists the correct Ford spec.

It's not going to harm anything but it just shows how frigging confusing (and stupid) this whole "a specific oil for a specific engine" thing is becoming.



Yeah I’m confused all over again, the fellow at Purnell Motors confirmed that it was all they use on post 06 Defenders, In any case the price was great so if it’s not going to do any harm ill use it anyway.

Meanwhile there may be some light shed on the whole Oil’s ain’t Oil’s thing.

[Naks]

... regularly see 5 or 10w/30 recommended but I have always steered clear of the 30 because I understood this to mean a max ambient of 40 degrees and we are quite often driving in plus 40 up here for prolonged periods.


Whether the ambient temperature is 30C or 40C, your internal engine temperature is the same. As long as your cooling system works efficiently, there should not be any issue.

On the Td5 I would still go 15w40 or 5w40, but the Duratorq engines were all designed for 5w30.

[robharvey]

Any comments on Shell Helix Ultra 5W40? Shell list it according to the following specs: API SM/CF, ACEA A3/B3/B4 which seems to be in line with what the 2.4 Puma requires.

[Naks]

Any comments on Shell Helix Ultra 5W40? Shell list it according to the following specs: API SM/CF, ACEA A3/B3/B4 which seems to be in line with what the 2.4 Puma requires.


No. Puma's spec requires ACEA A5/B5.

[rick130]

Deleted.

[slugworth]

The 10k service sheet for my 2.4 lists Havoline Synthetic, although it doesnt state the exact type.

[ATH]

Bloody hell! This is damn confusing. I think I'll stick with what I've put in and when it goes in for the 80K service (if I put it into the stealers that is) I'll have a chat about what they're using.
Has anyone yet had an engine go bang with using a fully synthetic A3/B4 instead of the recommended....whatever that is?
AlanH.

PS Thanks Rick anyway, even if I'm still confused.:D

[oldyella 76]

No DPF in my 2.2 defer.
Lindsay.

[Grappler]

Reference SSM50837
Models
Freelander 2
New Range Rover
Defender
Discovery 3
Discovery 4
Range Rover Sport
Title Land Rover Engine Oil (Castrol) Branding Update
Category Engine
Last modified 28-Jul-2011 00:00:00
Symptom 401000 Oil System Concerns
Content
Issue:
Castrol engine oil as used in Land Rover products update.
Action:
From the following dates Castrol SLX Professional Engine
Oil is/will no longer be available to order from your Castrol
representative:
�� June 2011 – Europe & Africa
�� September 2011 – Turkey, Asia and Pacific
�� November 2011 – Brazil
�� 2012 – North Americas and LACRO
Details of the changes
WSS-M2C925-A specification engine oil used in 5.0 V8
Gasoline
�� Castrol SLX Professional Fuel Saver A1 5W-20 is
replaced by
�� Castrol EDGE Professional A1 5W-20
WSS-M2C934-B specification engine oil used in DPF
equipped vehicles 2.7 TDV6, 3.0 TDV6, 3.6 TDV8, 4.4
TDV8, Defender 2.2 Puma and Freelander 2.2 TD4
�� Castrol SLX Professional Powerflow C1 5W-30 is
replaced by
�� Castrol EDGE Professional C1 5W-30
WSS-M2C913-B/C specification engine oil used in
4.2/4.4 AJV8 Gasoline and non DPF Diesel engines 2.7
TDV6, 3.0 TDV6, 3.6 TDV8, 4.4 TDV8, Defender 2.2
Puma and Freelander 2.2 TD4
�� Castrol SLX Professional Longtec A5 5W-30 is
replaced by
�� Castrol EDGE Professional A5 5W-30
ACEA A5/B5 specification oil used in Freelander 2 I6
3.2L Gasoline
�� Castrol SLX Professional Longtec 0W-30 is
replaced by
�� Castrol EDGE professional A5 0W-30
The above stated lubricants are available in bulk, barrel or
packs. For ordering these products, or if you have any
questions regarding pricing, minimum order quantities,
lead-time, please contact your local Castrol representative
or your local distributor.
TOPIx - SSM50837 - Land Rover Engine Oil (Castrol) Branding Update Page 1 of 1

[Dan135621]

No DPF in my 2.2 either. i was lead to believe that the DPF is a European thing only, to meet their emission laws.

[Grappler]

No DPF in my 2.2 defer.
Lindsay.

When was your 2.2 delivered?
My 2.2 delivered in Feb2012 has a DPF

[justinc]

grappler, where is the dpf located in the exhaust system? i haven't seen one as yet.
can you post a pic?
thanks,


jc

[Grappler]

I was told prior to delivery the 2.2 would come with a DPF

I have just tried to confirm with Land Rover dealer whether or not a DPF is fitted to my 2.2.
They were quite vague and couldnt tell from the VIN

The only advice was a DPF would have 4 sensors attached in the vicinity of the cat converter. Ive just looked and there are no sensors or leads in that area.
This along with the no DPF icon on the dash and doesnt appear during prestart bulb test, leads me to believe a DPF is not fitted?

I hope this the case as oil changes will be cheaper!

[justinc]

mmmm, i asked because as yet i haven't seen any 2012 2.2 pumas with a dpf fitted, so including your scenario i would say that none are fitted for the aust market, yet:)

thanks,

jc

[Rusnut]

hope they never do if it's any thing like the system in isuzu trucks. unit using pto all day on idle caused a lot of trouble sitting on side of road defusing its particles for twenty minutes every second day, a pain on the non bleached orifice.

[red roo]

sounds to me dockstada like we finally got to the right stuff. C1 prof. thanks

[Grappler]

Got the recommended oil which has been on order for a while.
This one ticks all the boxes for non DPF 2.2 Puma. Will be good for intermediate services without voiding warranty issues.

Pretty costly at $380 for 20ltrs, but that included freight.

[spudfan]

This is suitable for the Puma 2.4.
http://www.totaloil.com.au/Pages/content/NT00010242.pdf
This is their full list

http://www.totaloil.com.au/Pages/australia.nsf/VS_OPM/1F9F09CCD71D811DC12579510025E048?OpenDocument&LG=EN&
Distributor network

Our distributor network (http://www.totaloil.com.au/Pages/australia.nsf/VS_OPM/07515A958D58C756C125793C001951FD?OpenDocument)

[sashadidi]

This is suitable for the Puma 2.4.
http://www.totaloil.com.au/Pages/content/NT00010242.pdf
This is their full list


I have been using this in the Puma in NZ for a while with no apparent problems as its one of the only ones available to the public.

[rick130]

The Total Group make some exceptional lubricants, Elf have a huge following in motorsport and have for a very long time.

[sashadidi]

they have this for the Puma gearbox:
http://total-gbr.lubricantadvisor.com/CustomerData/productsheets/TRANSMISSION%20SYN%20FE%2075W-90%20-%2001.2011.pdf

[Naks]

If you are stuck for the 913C engine oil, you can get it much more cheaper at your local Ford dealership.

It is the Motorcraft-branded oil, supplied by Castrol.

Here in South Africa, it costs around R250 per 5L container. LR charges R92 per litre.

[gcl381]

I recently spoke with Castrol and they confirmed that Castrol Edge Professional C1 5W-30 was the appropriate oil to use. However, when I was at the dealer today getting the intake grill replaced the service manager said they used (and had permission from LR Australia) to use a Shell Helix 5w30 product.

The Castrol Edge professional is impossible to find and I've been quoted over $500 for a 20L drum so I was reluctant and thought I might just get some from the dealer - but obviously can't/shouldn't given they use Shell oil...

So now I'm thinking I should just use the Shell Helix product. If I go to the shell product matching thingy on their website they don't even recommend a particular engine oil saying only 'refer to dealer'. The Shell Helix ultra extra is listed as exceeding ACEA C3; BMW LL-04; MB approval 229.51; VW 504 00/507 00; Porsche C30.

It shouldn't really be this hard to get some oil to top up your car....
any thoughts out there?

[Naks]

So now I'm thinking I should just use the Shell Helix product. If I go to the shell product matching thingy on their website they don't even recommend a particular engine oil saying only 'refer to dealer'. The Shell Helix ultra extra is listed as exceeding ACEA C3; BMW LL-04; MB approval 229.51; VW 504 00/507 00; Porsche C30.

It shouldn't really be this hard to get some oil to top up your car....
any thoughts out there?



I would not diverge from the 913A/B/C Ford spec.

As I said, go to your local Ford dealer, they will have the correct oil spec, since all Duratorq engines use the same oil.

[labrado]

just checked my service log, ULR malvern put Castrol Magnatec 5w40 SP in my 2.4 puma for 60k,70k and 80k services, it's for WSS-M2C-913A/B.
Castrol recommended Edge Professional C1 5w/30, which is for WSS-M2C-934-B.

:(Which one to go for 90k service?

[Grappler]

Labrado

The WSS-M2C-934-B. spec is for vehicles with DPF. Yours most likely will not.

[labrado]

Labrado

The WSS-M2C-934-B. spec is for vehicles with DPF. Yours most likely will not.

Mine doesn't have DPF, can I think of edge professional 5w30 as an overkill for my 2.4 puma?:confused:

[Loubrey]

A photograph of the actual tag on the actual 20 liter drum of oil specied for 2.4 Pumas (I can't comment on 2.2's).

Many other products is or may be suitable, but this is the only one specified by the boys who work from Lode Lane, Solihul.

I managed to get myself a drum through our local bulk fuel distributor.

Cheers,

Lou

[c.h.i.e.f]

When I had my 2.4 I used castrol edge 5w-30 I changed oil every 5,000 which by the sounds of it is a waste of money however there was never a time the engine did not hit max revs or held on the speed limiter :angel: so it may have helped a smidgen....I am about to get a 2.2 puma and am now lost as to what the final verdict is on exactly what oil is preferred ?

There was mention of gearbox oil for the puma...my manual lists BOT130M which I called castrol and they are not aloud to sell it as it must be purchased from LR so I asked for an alternative which they could also not say so I took a punt and used castrol Apx80 (I think it was called that)

[rick130]

When I had my 2.4 I used castrol edge 5w-30 I changed oil every 5,000 which by the sounds of it is a waste of money however there was never a time the engine did not hit max revs or held on the speed limiter :angel: so it may have helped a smidgen....I am about to get a 2.2 puma and am now lost as to what the final verdict is on exactly what oil is preferred ?

There was mention of gearbox oil for the puma...my manual lists BOT130M which I called castrol and they are not aloud to sell it as it must be purchased from LR so I asked for an alternative which they could also not say so I took a punt and used castrol Apx80 (I think it was called that)

BOT130M is a GL4, 75W-90 so VMX-80 is too thin and being a mineral based oil won't last very long.
Put it this way, it'd shift well when cold, will have more gear and bearing rattle at high loads/temps than the right stuff and start to shear in about 10-15,000km of use.
As for increased wear, well......

If you were going to use a Castrol oil I'd use Syntrax Universal, it's the only thing they retail that will be somewhat close to the spec gearbox oil.

Personally I'd love to try Motul Gear 300 in one, just to compare it to standard.

[oldyella 76]

I have a 2012 defender and it does not have a diesel particulate filter. There is a lot of misconception regarding this issue, they may have them in the "old country" but mine does not have one even thought he book says it does.
Lindsay

[c.h.i.e.f]

BOT130M is a GL4, 75W-90 so VMX-80 is too thin and being a mineral based oil won't last very long.
Put it this way, it'd shift well when cold, will have more gear and bearing rattle at high loads/temps than the right stuff and start to shear in about 10-15,000km of use.
As for increased wear, well......

If you were going to use a Castrol oil I'd use Syntrax Universal, it's the only thing they retail that will be somewhat close to the spec gearbox oil.

Personally I'd love to try Motul Gear 300 in one, just to compare it to standard.

Thanks rick very helpful thank you....
I always call it apx for some stupid reason but I think that's a castrol grease :angel: your right vmx80 is what I've been using...I was using something prior that was suggested to me by a mechanic which I now know why you say not to listen to a mechanic as he suggested me to use valvoline hydrotrans which made the gearbox sound like a brass band when under load at low speeds so hence I decided to have a punt and go with vmx which from your knowledge is not suitable but it did make it considerably quieter and smoother than previous oil...I will be taking your advice and running with it for certain ...thanks again

What exact oil would you run in an r380 ?

[rick130]

What exact oil would you run in an r380 ?

Syntrans 75W-85 is pretty much a fail safe.
You could probably get away with Syntrans in the Getrag too, it's a very good manual trans fluid.

Good shift quality (better, less notchy than Redline MTL IME yet Pat is using MTL in his Tdi Deefer with 400,000+km on it and reckons it's much nicer than when it had ATF)
The R380 can be idiosyncratic too, JC has mentioned more than once that he has the odd 'box that still seems to shift better overall with a good ATF and they seem to last ok, yet others die a premature death, so go figure ?
Theory says that a decent MTF gives better gear and bearing protection than an ATF, they just use a beefier additive package and the friction modifiers are optimised for synchros, not fluid clutches and most people find Syntrans a distinct improvement on whatever they've been using in the past.

I started using Syntrans in the R380 in '02, although these days I use Motul Gear 300 which appears to hold up better at higher ambients (as it should, it's a 75W-90)

[spudfan]

hmmm, I would be wary. Magnetec A1 5-30 (which is an A5/B5 oil) is ok for D3 & D4 non DPF.
The correct spec for D4 with dpf would be as stated above Castrol Edge C1 5w30. C1 is the vital bit for low ash

From L/R's special service message:

WSS-M2C934-B specification engine oil used in DPF equipped vehicles 2.7 TDV6, 3.0 TDV6, 3.6 TDV8, 4.4 TDV8, Defender 2.2 Puma and Freelander 2.2 TD4
•Castrol EDGE Professional C1 5W-30

WSS-M2C913-B/C specification engine oil used in 4.2/4.4 AJV8 Gasoline and non DPF Diesel engines 2.7 TDV6, 3.0 TDV6, 3.6 TDV8, 4.4 TDV8, Defender 2.2 Puma and Freelander 2.2 TD4
•Castrol EDGE Professional A5 5W-30
Although Magnetec 5w30 A1 is also perfectly suitable also.

The price of the Edge C1 is alot more than 913B spec oil!

HTH
From the Disco4 site in the UK
DISCO4.COM - View topic - Engine oil disco 4 3.0 (http://www.disco4.com/forum/topic93594.html)

[29dinosaur]

Well after much toing and froing, reading lots of posts etc I've decided to stick some Castrol Magnatec Professional A5 5w30 in my 2.4l Ford motor... Price $260 delivered ($245+15delivery)from supplier - Green Goanna, (http://www.greengoanna.com.au/Green_Goanna/Home.html) Granville.

Alternative was Nulon off gumtree (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/liverpool/oil-coolant-liquids/nulon-full-synthetic-5w-30-diesel-engine-oil-free-local-delivery/1017098033). (Nulon Full Synthetic 5W-30 Diesel Formula Long Life Engine Oil at $180 plus ?? delivery). Couldn't read on the Nulon site that it was identical specs for the wss-m2c913-c that the ford motor is specced ..)

Boy oil changes never used to be this difficult. :angrylock:

(What price do Ford dealers charge for their 5w30 duratorq Motosport product? I'm guessing they don't supply in 5l or more containers...)

[ozrob]

Well after much toing and froing, reading lots of posts etc I've decided to stick some Castrol Magnatec Professional A5 5w30 in my 2.4l Ford motor... Price $260 delivered ($245+15delivery)from supplier - Green Goanna, (http://www.greengoanna.com.au/Green_Goanna/Home.html) Granville.

Alternative was Nulon off gumtree (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/liverpool/oil-coolant-liquids/nulon-full-synthetic-5w-30-diesel-engine-oil-free-local-delivery/1017098033). (Nulon Full Synthetic 5W-30 Diesel Formula Long Life Engine Oil at $180 plus ?? delivery). Couldn't read on the Nulon site that it was identical specs for the wss-m2c913-c that the ford motor is specced ..)

Boy oil changes never used to be this difficult. :angrylock:

(What price do Ford dealers charge for their 5w30 duratorq Motosport product? I'm guessing they don't supply in 5l or more containers...)

Have a look at the super cheap auto web page,
10 lt of the Nulon synthetic diesel oil is $105
Nulon Long Life Diesel Engine Oil - 5W-30, 10 Litre - Supercheap Auto Australia (http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Nulon-Long-Life-Diesel-Engine-Oil-5W-30-10-Litre.aspx?pid=286596&menuFrom=60104#Cross)

Full Synthetic 5W-30 Diesel Formula Long Life Engine Oil- Nulon Australia (http://www.nulon.com.au/products/Engine_Oils/Full_Synthetic_5W-30_Diesel_Formula_Long_Life_Engine_Oil/#.UZ8Qqs6E3ss)
At least the oil is easy to find from a retail outlet.

[Naks]

Now that my Puma is out of warranty, I am going to start using Liqui Moly, the Leichtlauf Special F 5 W-30 conforms to 913C specs: LIQUI MOLY - Motor Oils, Additives, Car Care - Products - Leichtlauf Special F 5 W-30 (http://www.liqui-moly.de/liqui-moly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_3852.html?OpenDocument&land=DE)

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/mediendb.nsf/gfx2/3852_200_100.jpg/$file/3852_200_100.jpg

[Partick the Cat]

hmmm, I would be wary. Magnetec A1 5-30 (which is an A5/B5 oil) is ok for D3 & D4 non DPF.
The correct spec for D4 with dpf would be as stated above Castrol Edge C1 5w30. C1 is the vital bit for low ash

From L/R's special service message:

WSS-M2C934-B specification engine oil used in DPF equipped vehicles 2.7 TDV6, 3.0 TDV6, 3.6 TDV8, 4.4 TDV8, Defender 2.2 Puma and Freelander 2.2 TD4
•Castrol EDGE Professional C1 5W-30

WSS-M2C913-B/C specification engine oil used in 4.2/4.4 AJV8 Gasoline and non DPF Diesel engines 2.7 TDV6, 3.0 TDV6, 3.6 TDV8, 4.4 TDV8, Defender 2.2 Puma and Freelander 2.2 TD4
•Castrol EDGE Professional A5 5W-30
Although Magnetec 5w30 A1 is also perfectly suitable also.

The price of the Edge C1 is alot more than 913B spec oil!

HTH
From the Disco4 site in the UK
DISCO4.COM - View topic - Engine oil disco 4 3.0 (http://www.disco4.com/forum/topic93594.html)

Greetings

If a visiting non-LR owner may make a contribution ...

I have 2008 Jaguar with the 2.7L diesel engine and SpudFan's post above seems to be a bit more up-to-date than we have in the Jag fraternity.

Here the 2.7L Tdvi (various models up to 2009) is still seems to be recommended to use M2C 913-B (eg Magnatec 5W30 A1) whereas for the 3L Diesel (new models 2009 onwards - it replaced the 2.7) 934-B is recommended (eg Castrol EDGE C1 5W-30)

Why when both engines are fitted with DPFs is beyond me.

Then I discovered that four different oil manufacturers (slightly obscure, the only one I've ever heard of before is Q8) that each make an engine oil that claims to meet both 913-B (or C) AND 934-B viz

Q8 Formula Exclusive C1 5W-30 (http://viglink.pgpartner.com/mrdr.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fviglink.pgpartner.com%2F search_attrib.php%2Fform_keyword=5w-30&mt=%7E%7E%7E%7E%7E%7E%7E%7En%7E%7E%7E) [meets M2C 913-B and M2C 934-B]

Granville FS-F 5W/30 [meets M2C 913-C and M2C 934-B ]

OPUS Synopus Nova Ultra 5W/30 [meets M2C 913-C and M2C 934-B]

Euro Oils Fully Synthetic 5W/30 C1 [meets M2C 913-C and M2C 934-B]

This leads me to suspect that 934-B has very similar (possibly identical) viscosity, lubricity etc requirements to 913-B/C .. and simply has the additional requirement of being 'Low-SAPS'. The trouble is I cannot find the detailed M2C 913-B (or C) specs anywhere on-line, nor 934-B, which would really give the true gen.

Cheers just now ...

Dave in Gloucestershire UK

[rick130]

Greetings

If a visiting non-LR owner may make a contribution ...

I have 2008 Jaguar with the 2.7L diesel engine and SpudFan's post above seems to be a bit more up-to-date than we have in the Jag fraternity.

Here the 2.7L Tdvi (various models up to 2009) is still seems to be recommended to use M2C 913-B (eg Magnatec 5W30 A1) whereas for the 3L Diesel (new models 2009 onwards - it replaced the 2.7) 934-B is recommended (eg Castrol EDGE C1 5W-30)

Why when both engines are fitted with DPFs is beyond me.
[snip]

Cheers just now ...

Dave in Gloucestershire UK

Dave, the low SAPS oils are definitely needed for the DPF, (generally sulphated ash <800PPM) and the SAPS levels in car diesels with DPF are far below what is considered low SAPS in heavy duty diesels too, where low SAPS is 1000PPM or below

Just going through this with a PSA Hdi diesel engine which you'd think would be similar/same as the Ford, but no, PSA have different specs again (sulphated ash <690PPM, HTHS >2.9) and so far I've only been able to find Total and Motul easily.

It's a PITA as I have a perfectly good ACEA E4/E6/E9 low SAPS HD diesel oil here in bulk but its <1000PPM SA and the HTHS is a nice, robust 4...... :(

[spudfan]

If you look at these oil specs, if your 2.2 Puma does NOT have a DPF fitted you can use the oil used in the 2.4.
This brand probably is not available in your country but the specs will be of use.
The oil for the 2.2 NON DPF and the 2.4 meetFord C/D spec. The "D" spec is new to me.
Spec sheet for oil for Puma 2.2 with DPF
http://www.championlubes.com/TDS/tds_65605...018_lr.pdf
Spec sheet for oil for Puma 2.2 without DPF
http://www.championlubes.com/TDS/tds_65609...158_lr.pdf
Spec sheet for oil for Puma 2.4
http://www.championlubes.com/TDS/tds_65609...158_lr.pdf
Seems that if you live in a country where your new 2.2 Puma does not have a DPF fitted you can use the oil used for the 2.4.
Might be of use to someone.

_________________

[spudfan]

Oil specs for 2.2 with DPF and 2.2 with NO DPF.
Defender2 - View topic - Oil specs for 2.2 and 2.2 non DPF (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic21698.html)
Tried to put up direct links but they would not work but you can get them on the above Defender2 link.

[n plus one]

If you look at these oil specs, if your 2.2 Puma does NOT have a DPF fitted you can use the oil used in the 2.4.
This brand probably is not available in your country but the specs will be of use.
The oil for the 2.2 NON DPF and the 2.4 meetFord C/D spec. The "D" spec is new to me.
Spec sheet for oil for Puma 2.2 with DPF
http://www.championlubes.com/TDS/tds_65605...018_lr.pdf
Spec sheet for oil for Puma 2.2 without DPF
http://www.championlubes.com/TDS/tds_65609...158_lr.pdf
Spec sheet for oil for Puma 2.4
http://www.championlubes.com/TDS/tds_65609...158_lr.pdf
Seems that if you live in a country where your new 2.2 Puma does not have a DPF fitted you can use the oil used for the 2.4.
Might be of use to someone.

_________________


Links no worky? :confused:

[spudfan]

Links no worky? :confused:

Yes sorry about that, but you can access them via my second post and get them via a link on Defender2.net. Just click on the link on the second post here
Defender2 - View topic - Oil specs for 2.2 and 2.2 non DPF (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic21698.html)

[ATH]

I've just got a price from Supacrap for this Edge Professional A5 5W-30 at $524.50 per drum and you've got to buy 2 of them at a time!!!!!
This works out at around 174 bucks per service if doing it at 10K which I have been doing.
What are others paying around Oz for this stuff.
Cheers.
Alan.

[ATH]

Got another price from Supacrap for Magnatec Professional A5 $345 per 20 ltrs.
That sounded better so I went to order it this morning ......half an hour later I walk out as they keep putting me to the back of the queue/answering the phone or talking to each other as I'm obviously not worth bothering about for a lousy 690 bucks.
Castrol gave me several names as dealers to try so off I went before trying Supacrap. Covs (Coventry) just laughed and said they'd order it but I'd have to wait until they had orders for 6 drums so it could take a year or so.
Repco couldn't be bothered at all...."just get something off the shelf, not worth us ordering it".
When at Supacrap they phoned Castrol and the price to them was 176 dollars!!!!!!
Cost to the public $345 so not a bad mark up at nearly 100%.
I can't be bothered with this any more, it's just a sodding Ford engine so why is it so hard to buy the right oil for it?
Gonna be another poxy Puma on carsales.com soon....
AlanH.

[isuzurover]

Dave, the low SAPS oils are definitely needed for the DPF, (generally sulphated ash <800PPM) and the SAPS levels in car diesels with DPF are far below what is considered low SAPS in heavy duty diesels too, where low SAPS is 1000PPM or below


...


It's a PITA as I have a perfectly good ACEA E4/E6/E9 low SAPS HD diesel oil here in bulk but its <1000PPM SA and the HTHS is a nice, robust 4...... :(

I assume it is because (a) the sulphur promotes particulate formation and (b) it poisons the catalyst used in the DPF.

Diesel soot on its own won't burn in air until ~550oC - which is above the EGT immediately post turbo that these engines should be running!
DPFs have catalysts which reduce the temperature to ~300-350oC. Poison the catalyst and your soot won't burn off the DPF unless you are running crazy EGTs...

[rick130]

I assume it is because (a) the sulphur promotes particulate formation and (b) it poisons the catalyst used in the DPF.

Diesel soot on its own won't burn in air until ~550oC - which is above the EGT immediately post turbo that these engines should be running!
DPFs have catalysts which reduce the temperature to ~300-350oC. Poison the catalyst and your soot won't burn off the DPF unless you are running crazy EGTs...

Bit the heavy duty diesels also use a DPF, it's obviously much, much larger.
The car oils are often also often friction modified, I know the PSA one is.
What I can't quite work out are the very different oil specs between the Ford and PSA versions of the same engine though.

[isuzurover]

Bit the heavy duty diesels also use a DPF, it's obviously much, much larger.
The car oils are often also often friction modified, I know the PSA one is.
What I can't quite work out are the very different oil specs between the Ford and PSA versions of the same engine though.

In Australia HD diesel regs are several years behind LV regs. Also, HVs have a lot more space to fit a DPF, and tend to have open (channel/wall) collectors.

Are you sure the <1000ppm oil is in engines with a DPF? Another factor is the HVs are much less likely to be doing short stop-start runs.

[rick130]

In Australia HD diesel regs are several years behind LV regs. Also, HVs have a lot more space to fit a DPF, and tend to have open (channel/wall) collectors.

Are you sure the <1000ppm oil is in engines with a DPF? Another factor is the HVs are much less likely to be doing short stop-start runs.


AFAIK it's for the HD diesels with DPF and SCR, they often use Urea (Adblue?) as part of the aftertreatment, without looking it up I'm guessing it's used as a catalyst ?

[sashadidi]

Got another price from Supacrap for Magnatec Professional A5 $345 per 20 ltrs.
That sounded better so I went to order it this morning ......half an hour later I walk out as they keep putting me to the back of the queue/answering the phone or talking to each other as I'm obviously not worth bothering about for a lousy 690 bucks.
Castrol gave me several names as dealers to try so off I went before trying Supacrap. Covs (Coventry) just laughed and said they'd order it but I'd have to wait until they had orders for 6 drums so it could take a year or so.
Repco couldn't be bothered at all...."just get something off the shelf, not worth us ordering it".
When at Supacrap they phoned Castrol and the price to them was 176 dollars!!!!!!
Cost to the public $345 so not a bad mark up at nearly 100%.
I can't be bothered with this any more, it's just a sodding Ford engine so why is it so hard to buy the right oil for it?
Gonna be another poxy Puma on carsales.com soon....
AlanH.
Do you have a puma 2.4 try total:
Automotive Oils (http://www.totaloil.com.au/Pages/Australia.nsf/VS_OPM/1F9F09CCD71D811DC12579510025E048)
Fuchs have a WSS-M2C913-C spec oil andPenrite have a oil as well from memory

[isuzurover]

AFAIK it's for the HD diesels with DPF and SCR, they often use Urea (Adblue?) as part of the aftertreatment, without looking it up I'm guessing it's used as a catalyst ?

Diesel exhaust fluid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[rick130]

Thanks Ben, I was using the phone for those posts so not as easy to do a search :twobeers:

[Grappler]

Thanks Sashidi, from the the list of Total products this one looks good
for a Puma with no DPF ...Total Quartz 9000 Future NFC 5W-30

Have been quoted $42 incl gst per 5 litre can. Not available in 20l but 208l available from Perth distributor

Better than $98 per 5 litre I paid for Castrol Edge with same specs!

[sashadidi]

Thanks Sashidi, from the the list of Total products this one looks good
for a Puma with no DPF ...Total Quartz 9000 Future NFC 5W-30

Have been quoted $42 incl gst per 5 litre can. Not available in 20l but 208l available from Perth distributor

Better than $98 per 5 litre I paid for Castrol Edge with same specs!
Yes I am using that total oil here in NZ in my 2008 puma and no problems, recommended by my friend who has the "unofficial" but much better land rover servicing shop here in NZ. they can get 4l,20l and 208l
We have the fuchs oil here as well.

[sashadidi]

Thanks to Justinc

list of oils for Puma 2.4

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1927685-post47.html

[sashadidi]

Ford WSS M2C 913-B:
Ford Engine Oil - WSS-M2C 913-B (http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-698-wss-m2c-913-b.aspx)

Ford WSS M2C-913-C
Ford Engine Oil - WSS-M2C 913-C (http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-1251-wss-m2c-913-c.aspx)

[tuesdayfox]

Hi all,
Wearied I was told the SLX OE is a redundant product and not longer available.
Cast roll has replaced it with edge professional OEX

Any experience?

Cheers
Marrin

[rick130]

Hi all,
Wearied I was told the SLX OE is a redundant product and not longer available.
Cast roll has replaced it with edge professional OEX

Any experience?

Cheers
Marrin


Look back in the thread, Edge Professional A5 5W-30 with the relevant Ford spec/licence and it also says recommended by Land Rover on the drum.

[rick130]

Have a look at the super cheap auto web page,
10 lt of the Nulon synthetic diesel oil is $105
Nulon Long Life Diesel Engine Oil - 5W-30, 10 Litre - Supercheap Auto Australia (http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Nulon-Long-Life-Diesel-Engine-Oil-5W-30-10-Litre.aspx?pid=286596&menuFrom=60104#Cross)

Full Synthetic 5W-30 Diesel Formula Long Life Engine Oil- Nulon Australia (http://www.nulon.com.au/products/Engine_Oils/Full_Synthetic_5W-30_Diesel_Formula_Long_Life_Engine_Oil/#.UZ8Qqs6E3ss)
At least the oil is easy to find from a retail outlet.

Be a little careful under warranty as it isn't licensed/carry the Ford approval.

[tuesdayfox]

Look back in the thread, Edge Professional A5 5W-30 with the relevant Ford spec/licence and it also says recommended by Land Rover on the drum.

thanks Rick,
i am so confused. so what would be the difference between A5 and OE-X???
my 2.2 does not come with DPF so i guess OE-x would be overkill.
but will A5 provide better fuel efficiency?....:confused::confused::confused:

Cheers

[Tikka7mm08]

I just spoke to speed.co.nz who sell Liquimoly. 20L is NZD277+GST, oil bung replacement $10, and filter $32. Excellent to speak to and freighting is no problem. My 08 Puma is sorted for oil changes.... how hard are gearbox and transmission changes (do I have a transmission or is that only autos...LOL?!)

[sashadidi]

I just spoke to speed.co.nz who sell Liquimoly. 20L is NZD277+GST, oil bung replacement $10, and filter $32. Excellent to speak to and freighting is no problem. My 08 Puma is sorted for oil changes.... how hard are gearbox and transmission changes (do I have a transmission or is that only autos...LOL?!)

Hi Tikka, you can get Total oil in Christchurch as well and fuchs from BNT in the central city.

Oil for diffs and transfer diffs you buy from castrol diff and transfer oils etc from supercheap when it is 25% off,
Gearbox oil I used Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID 75W-80 Premium Manual Transmission Gearbox Fluid which is available from BNT as well, this oil has the FORD M2C200-C/C2/C3 recommendation.
it was about $28.00 plus GST a litre (trade price). Archibalds want $120 per litre for the landrover oil!!!
Also BNT have Redline Redline MT90 75w-90w GL4 oil which is ok for the gearbox as well.
Link to the Redline Oil on this page: Red Line Gear Oil / Redline Oil - Performance Car Parts Tauranga NZ - Best Prices, Quality & Service (http://www.pro-wholesale.co.nz/red-line-gear-oil-redline-oil/)
Reference to the redline oil from AULRO:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/166074-oils-aint-oils-r380-post1836741.html?highlight=redline+gl4#post1836741

I needed a small pump to transfer the 2.2 litres needed to refill the gearbox ;

http://www.supercheapauto.co.nz/online-store/products/Tom-Thumb-Pump-Utility-1-Litre.aspx?pid=284708#Cross

[Tikka7mm08]

Thanks so much Sashadidi that is super helpful! Not familiar with BNT so will look them up. Printing your post as a goto reference :)

[spudfan]

I just spoke to speed.co.nz who sell Liquimoly. 20L is NZD277+GST, oil bung replacement $10, and filter $32. Excellent to speak to and freighting is no problem. My 08 Puma is sorted for oil changes.... how hard are gearbox and transmission changes (do I have a transmission or is that only autos...LOL?!)


Defender2 - View topic - Engine, Gearbox & Transfer Box Oil Change (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic8707.html)

I did it slightly differently.
I removed the inspection plate between the driver and passenger front seats and filled the main gear box and transferbox using a pipe and a funnel. Takes a while owing to the viscosity (or lack of it) of the of the oil.
I used Total Syn Fe 75W-90

[ATH]

Trying to get the right oil for the Puma 2.4 has really ****ed me off for a long time. I confess to being a bit of a fanatic about oil changes and do all of them at about half the recommended rate LR say so when I couldn't get the exact right oil for the engine I got really ****ed off and thought of flogging the damn thing.
I tried all the usual suspects (Supacrap. Reco, Covs) and met with all sorts of responses from "we don't stock it, we don't care" to "oils is oils any thing will do" to a lady from Supacrap who did her best to get the Castrol recommended oil (2 x 20ltr drums though) but when she wasn't there I got shoved to the back of the queue as it wasn't on their list so they'd have to do a manual order and it was a bit too hard!
However, someone posted about Mobil doing an oil (Mobil Super 3000 X1 FE 5W 30) that did it so I contacted Mobil in Welshpool. They only sold that in 208ltr drums but could provide Mobil Super 3000 XE in 20ltr drums which according to one of their engineers, met or exceeded all Ford requirements for the 2.4 engine.
So that's what I've bought and because it's not come from some craphead who just wants to flog me something, anything, as long as they flog something, I'm quite happy with it.
AlanH.

[Blade74]

For anyone in Sydney there is a shop in Taren point called One Stop Lube Shop.
I used to buy my 20 litre drums of castrol from him.
He can order in most oils that you can't get from the regular shops.

[roley18]

Well, after following this post (thanks for all the great comments/info) and doing some further reading I've settled on the Total Quartz 9000 Future NFC 5W-30 engine oil. One thing I've learnt is that while there are a lot of oils that state they meet or exceed the requirements of WSS-M2C913-B, there are a lot less that have the OEM approval.

So my check list for selecting this oil was:-
1) OEM approved to WSS-M2C913-C which is backward compatible with WSS-M2C913-B.
2) Availability. The WA distributor is just down the road from me, also found out they supply the local Ford dealership.
3) Cost $40.70 inc GST per 5lt (available in 5lt and 208lt)

So now onto the gearbox/diff/trans oils, more reading, much fun :)


Dirk.........

[Tikka7mm08]

Roley18 thanks for that I see they are near me too so will ring and price tomorrow. Let me know your thoughts on the other oils!!

[Tikka7mm08]

Righto - again great guys to deal with (must be something about oil suppliers) and the same Oil Roley18 quoted is NZD75.40 + 15% and $273 + 15% (5L and 20l respectively. Even with exchange rate your pricing is good. I am going down this track too and getting the 20L.

[red roo]

Whats the story with syn oil being better than min oil probly all a scam

[scarry]

Geez,how complicated can this be.Need an oil for the sons Puma,still completely confused:D:(

Maybe i do it the easy way,ring MR auto and see what they use:)
It will be a Valvoline product for sure....

[Tikka7mm08]

I just did my first oil change with oil from Total Oil Solutions. Truck is running very nicely and they had everything I needed. I used:

QUARTZ 9000 FUTURE NFC 5W30 SYN

[Naks]

I know I said I would switch to Liqui-Moly, but ended up switching to Fuchs Titan SuperSyn F 5w30 (TITAN SUPERSYN F SAE 5W-30 | Fuchs Lubricants South Africa (http://www.fuchsoil.co.za/automotive/titan-supersyn-f-sae-5w-30/))

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/746.jpg


After the first oil change to the Fuchs, my indie recommended that I change the oil again after 2000km to flush out any remaining Castrol.

Engine is running very well :)

[spudfan]

I just did my first oil change with oil from Total Oil Solutions. Truck is running very nicely and they had everything I needed. I used:

QUARTZ 9000 FUTURE NFC 5W30 SYN
I'll be doing a service on mine tomorrow (weather permitting) and I'll also be using Total Quartz 9000 5W30. Have used it and Total transmission oils and found them very good.
On another note, I find that the 2008 Puma does need topping up with engine oil so I check it regularly. I'd say since the last service 12 months ago I've topped it up by over half a litre of engine oil. 92,200kms on the clock. Don't know if that is typical of the breed or not.

[Jfish]

G'day,

After much research and hunting around I've finally got a solid answer for the correct 2015 Defender engine oil.
Forums have been a minefield so I'm only posting info verbatim from Land Rover and Castrol.

According to the MY2012 Defender workshop manual (which serves up until 2016):

Engine - 2.2l Diesel
SAE 5W-30 engine oil (With DPF) -----> 5W/30 - WSS-M2C934-B
SAE 5W-30 engine oil (Without DPF) ----->5W/30 - WSS-M2C913-B or C

I found two oils meeting the WSS-M2C934-B spec:
Castrol Edge Professional C1 5W-30
http://www.tds.bp.com.au/pdf/10704_Edge%20Professional%20C1%205W-30%20.pdf
and
Shell Helix Ultra Professional AF-L 5W-30
http://triumf.md/js/tiny_mce/plugins/addfile/files/Shell/TDS2/Helix/Helix_Ultra_Professional_AF-L_5W-30_(C1_M2C-934B)_(en-GB)_TDS.pdf

Neither oil is readily available in stores or online so I emailed Castrol and promptly received the following info:

Thank you for your email, the smallest size Edge Prof C1 5W 30 comes in is 20L.
If you are unable find a reseller who hold stock of this product they can place an order for you.
You can visit a your local BP service station and provide the Part number 3375617 and they will be able to arrange stock for you.
We can sell direct to customer as a cash sale but order need to in between 500$ - 2000$ and delivery address must be a business address.


I also emailed Shell but I'm yet to hear from them. I'll add their response once I hear from them but for now Castrol has me sorted.

I sure hope this saves a bunch of time for a few owners.

[BigBlueOne]

As far as I know you do not have a DPF and require the second type of engine oil (WSS-M2C913-B or C) which can be be bought from all your local shops I.e. Supercheap, Repco etc.. Most supercheap have a computer in the store for you to put your vehicle details in and it lists your oils from premium to cheap.

[scarry]

Valvoline Synpower FE is also the correct spec,and 5w/30,no DPF.

Available from Supercheap,autobarn,etc in 5litre containers.