New Defender, The Bosses view

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I'd normally put this in
The Parking Lot,,
but there are quite a few hints in this one;)


"Land Rover: Defending the faith could be tricky"

By David Linklater (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/david-linklater/news/headlines.cfm?a_id=371) 5:30 AM Saturday Oct 29, 2011





Diehard fans take some convincing that update of classic is worthy

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/73.jpg (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/news/article.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=10762317#)

Nobody's saying that replacing the iconic Land Rover Defender will be easy. But perhaps recreating the 63-year-old original's blend of functionality and durability in a 21st-century package will be the easy bit. Pleasing brand loyalists who are enamoured of the classic status of the Defender might be the tricky bit.
That was something acknowledged by Land Rover's global brand boss John Edwards, who visited New Zealand for the first time last week.
Land Rover said earlier this year that it was committed to replacing the Defender by 2015, marking an end to a model line that goes back to 1948.
At September's Frankfurt Motor Show, Land Rover showed the DC100 (for Defender Concept, 100-inch wheelbase) as a signal of the design direction the new model may take.
DC100 is a no-compromise off-roader, as it should be. What it's not is a retro homage. That is also as it should be, because neither was the original Defender
when it was launched more than 60 years ago. But some don't see things that way.

"In truth, some of the Defender enthusiasts were not pleased about the design that we showed at Frankfurt," Edwards says. "I absolutely predicted that. In a previous life, I was involved in the launch of the new Mini and I remember presenting the new car to a group of Mini owners.
"I nearly got chased out of the building - they were up in arms because we were replacing a classic with something completely new. The rest is history, of course."
That doesn't necessarily mean objections from the establishment will be automatically overruled when it comes to an all-new Defender.
But Land Rover must balance that sometimes overwhelming nostalgia with the need to find new customers and create a completely new product to serve it well into the future.
Defender production is now just 20,000 units a year and it's a very expensive model to produce because of the age of its design. The company must double or even triple global sales to make an all-new model viable.
"Defender owners have been huge advocates for us in the past, so we take their views very seriously," says Edwards. "But many are driving a 25-year-old car, having bought it as a 15-year-old car, rallying it at the weekends and so on. It's a slightly different area of the market that we're talking about.
"But it is a hugely exciting project and we all believe that there is a huge opportunity with the new car."
Edwards emphasises that DC100 is merely a concept.
"Production won't be until 2015 at the earliest. It will be versatile, it will be capable, it will be durable, it will be dependable, it will be abuse-able, it will be usable. It will be a car that goes back to the heart of what Defender stood for all those years ago."
One of the many decisions yet to be made is whether the old Defender might continue alongside the new one in some markets.
The 2.2-litre diesel engine just introduced to the car will meet tough new European emissions regulations and it's thought that the Defender could be granted an exemption from more stringent pedestrian-impact regulations - in Europe the Defender is classified as a commercial vehicle.
Edwards acknowledges that an even longer run for the classic model is a possibility. "We'll keep on producing the current car as long as there's demand - it is still a single-minded work tool. But there's no long-term plan at this stage. It's just something we can consider."
Edwards' visit to New Zealand was tied to Land Rover's sponsorship of the Rugby World Cup, in which 70 vehicles were used as official transport for dignitaries and media.
The RWC also provided Land Rover with an opportunity to draw a crowd to its Range Rover Evoque Experience - a global roadshow that gives the public a chance to see the maker's new fashion-oriented soft-roader in the metal, engage in multi-media activities and explore the range of personalisations available for the vehicle by configuring one on computer (no purchase necessary).
Evoque will be launched in New Zealand on November 8. The Evoque Experience marquee remains open at Britomart, in central Auckland, until 6pm on October 30.
By David Linklater (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/david-linklater/news/headlines.cfm?a_id=371) | Email David (http://dynamic.nzherald.co.nz/feedback/author/index.cfm?a_id=371&objectid=10762317)

[disco2hse]

DC100 is a no-compromise off-roader, as it should be. What it's not is a retro homage. That is also as it should be, because neither was the original Defender when it was launched more than 60 years ago. But some don't see things that way.

Pretty silly thing to say really. 60 years ago there was nothing to pay homage to. There had not yet been 60 years of Land Rover history established and there was not yet an iconic status. And David Linklater demonstrates his lack of credentials because there was no Defender launch 60 years ago.



"In truth, some of the Defender enthusiasts were not pleased about the design that we showed at Frankfurt," Edwards says. "I absolutely predicted that. In a previous life, I was involved in the launch of the new Mini and I remember presenting the new car to a group of Mini owners.

"I nearly got chased out of the building - they were up in arms because we were replacing a classic with something completely new. The rest is history, of course."

Well that explains a lot about the bald one. So he was the one that was responsible for that chick wagon. One thing it's not is a mini. Damn things are big. So now he wants to turn the Defender into a gay boys' toy. I wonder if the new Defender will come with a handy moustache trimmer and mirror and hand bag storage unit.

He's a corporate marketing entity that knows how to spin. His message about the Defender styling while in Auckland was "get used to it." The continuation of the Defender is a compromise and as he said above, that is not guaranteed - corporate speak for "it ain't gonna happen sucka."

[Pedro_The_Swift]

thats pretty cynical,,
apart from a concept we really have no idea what to expect,,

and if you dont trust him to deliver,,
buy whats on offer now:D

[disco2hse]

thats pretty cynical,,
apart from a concept we really have no idea what to expect,,

and if you dont trust him to deliver,,
buy whats on offer now:D

What is cynical is his approach to the brand. Mine is untrusting of his cynicism. That is different.

I don't agree that we don't know what to expect. From his track record we know very well what to expect. Whether those who have spent money on the brand in the past like what will be delivered, well that is a different conversation.

So far as buying what is being offered now, I have spent enough on the brand to date.

[roverfan]

His approach to the brand is to make it successful so you can still buy a land rover in 20-30 years time. Cars have moved on and now have to comply with a myriad of different standards across the globe, you cant build anything like the current defender offerings and be able to sell it.

As he stated they sell 20,000 units a year which is nothing so for it to survive it needs to evolve and bring in a new market.

Disco2hse how many new defenders have you purchased?

[wardy1]

Can't agree with you Disco2hse, the way I read the article is that LR wish to continue building a good Defender albeit, with some modernisation.

Just a question... if you were to go out and buy a TV today, would you buy an old fashioned ray tube type, or go for a plasma, LED, LCD?

Progress just IS. I actually think that the biggest mistake LR have made with regard to the Deefer is that they haven't taken the opportunity to modernise it along the way and to provide some simple luxuries such as an automatic transmission so that even those "Gear Challenged" people such as my wife could drive it. Had they done some of the modernisation along the way, this conversation wouldn't be occuring.

[F4Phantom]

The idea should be to build a modern car which complies with the same ideas of the original car, with all the moden technologies. I am sure an engineer in 1948 would be horrified if you told him in 60 years you didnt want to improve his design despite massive advances. That is not the land rover way.

BUT....... in STYLING is where they need to be very careful. Interestingly if you look at all the latest american 4x4 utes, and other modern styles, the front ends are all very slab shaped. Not anything like all that gay 90's cars where the style was round and sloppy. Because the defender is also slab fronted they have been able to skip completly all the years of slop and have found themselves releasing a new defender in an age of styling which is well suited to a modern looking defender which could very much share design traits from the original, this would not be a "homage" I believe the new defender should be made to do work, not be build for a job of paying homage.

As I understand it, this new slab styling is due to pedestrian protection, and you can see it in many soft roaders as well. BMW in particular have very pig nosed cars of late.

So,, after all this what did LR present us in their new defender model? A dainty nosed slopey NON SLAB sided gay arse faggy POS. Good on you LR for not having a clue and getting the same people who designed the mahindra to have a go at a defender.

I hope they make some updates so that it will appeal to men also.

[Hoges]

I suspect part of the unspoken argument from the "traditionalists" is the sheer practicality of the current design.

I got vicarious pleasure in reading the makeover Bundalene Snr & Jnr did on the 130 for daughter in the Top End, and then his excellent effort on the dinged 110 which he bought as a write off from the insurance company.

In both cases the "Meccano set" underpinnings of the Defender design came to the fore. I can't imagine someone doing similar work to the same extent on a P38 or even a Disco, with their somewhat more complicated panel structures and interior fitouts which can defeat even the hardiest of home mechanics and adventurers.

I have a P38, but I get a hankering for a Defender because although I'd feel a bit guilty in drilling holes and adding stuff (well not too guilty;)) it truly lends itself to DIY mods.

Dare I say it, but the Toyota mob realised what they had in the 70 series and effectively left it alone in concept and implemented gradual changes...remember reading the furore when the front suspension finally got coil springs!! And for what they provide, they are over priced but that doesn't seem to faze the market!...

Perhaps Mr Edwards ought take a road trip north of the tropic of Capricorn to understand that there is another world and a real market opportunity for reliable LR product which might even translate into massive opportunities for Asia as a whole... end of rant:wasntme:


EDIT: we have some tradies at the house of a couple of weeks (I'm BANNED from climbing ladders to paint...). They are a pragmatic bunch, happy in their work and most knowledgable on matters "automotive". The "company truck" is a venerable hilux which carries all their painting gear (and LADDERS). Not a spot of spilled paint anywhere and some very neat signage. New Hilux on the books? you've gotta be kidding! Land Rover...they'd just lurve a 130 dual cab... what are they waiting for? to see what Great Wall comes out with next year! They rattle off prices and comparos as if they've studied for an exam. They get around a lot and compare with other tradies on various jobs and their view is that Great Wall is going to totally rejig the light commercial market in the next few years like the Koreans are doing with the Hyundai in the small/medium car market... I guess we'll see

[roverfan]

Yep the great wall concept makes allot of sense to most tradies, Buy one keep it till the warranty runs out and youll still come out better off than buying a new hi lux or ranger etc.. Its a **** car but it makes fiscal sense.

[rick130]

[snip]

As he stated they sell 20,000 units a year which is nothing so for it to survive it needs to evolve and bring in a new market.

[snip]

I keep seeing this brought up in various article's without any explanation whatsoever.

The reason that only 20,000 are built each year is that 20,000 is the production capacity of the line it's built on, they (LR) can't physically build anymore due to the nature of construction, it's hand built, a giant meccano set.
They sell all they can build.

[rick130]

[snip]

Just a question... if you were to go out and buy a TV today, would you buy an old fashioned ray tube type, or go for a plasma, LED, LCD?

[snip]


CRT, better colour saturation, cheaper to run, no pixel dropout.

The downside is the physical size, everyone wants flat screens these days. :D

[muddymech]

personally i'm a fan. things need to move on, sales need to be made bigger.
more slaes means more specalist more extra goodies to add, and hopefully cheaper second hand prices.
looking at the conceptw eb site i think they have some things correct is can be hosed out, it looks like they are aiming to make it good off road, and if they can add better refinement and still let it be abused all the better.
lets see what they can do, if you dont like it get an old one keep it good and when its worn out over haul, just like the series one owners have been doing for 60 years.
ian

[Pedro_The_Swift]

CRT, better colour saturation, cheaper to run, no pixel dropout.

The downside is the physical size, everyone wants flat screens these days. :D

mate, I have a perfectly good 21" (1600x1200 at 120hz) Hitachi crt in the cupboard,, it took me until late last year to go LED,, This thing (Dell Ultrasharp)eats it for breaky

[rick130]

mate, I have a perfectly good 21" (1600x1200 at 120hz) Hitachi crt in the cupboard,, it took me until late last year to go LED,, This thing (Dell Ultrasharp)eats it for breaky

Fairy 'nough.
And I thought I had em too.....

BTW I'm running a Dell flatscreen too :angel:
But we still have a Panasonic CRT telly.


A mate and neighbour is in film/video and it's taken him until about eighteen months ago to get a flat screen that would equal his old CRT's for colour reproduction.
CRT's go off with age too.

[ramblingboy42]

the D4 as much as many people dont like it for its low profile tyres has tremendous off road capability and probably because of the wheel/tyre combination most owners will never be able to come near its potential. If an ADR compliant, utility style body (ie hose out etc) were placed upon the D4 chassis with appropriate wheel /tyre modifications to truly suit rough terrain, you would have your defender repacement......it would hardly matter how it looks......jeez I reckon the landcruiser 200's are ****en horrible looking things but they still sell

[rick130]

the D4 as much as many people dont like it for its low profile tyres has tremendous off road capability and probably because of the wheel/tyre combination most owners will never be able to come near its potential. If an ADR compliant, utility style body (ie hose out etc) were placed upon the D4 chassis with appropriate wheel /tyre modifications to truly suit rough terrain, you would have your defender repacement......it would hardly matter how it looks......jeez I reckon the landcruiser 200's are ****en horrible looking things but they still sell

But would the chassis/driveline/suspension be able to cope with the loads and caning of commercial use ?

Live axles are nice and simple for hard yakka, day in, day out heavy duty flogging.

[disco2hse]

Can't agree with you Disco2hse, the way I read the article is that LR wish to continue building a good Defender albeit, with some modernisation.

Just a question... if you were to go out and buy a TV today, would you buy an old fashioned ray tube type, or go for a plasma, LED, LCD?

Progress just IS. I actually think that the biggest mistake LR have made with regard to the Deefer is that they haven't taken the opportunity to modernise it along the way and to provide some simple luxuries such as an automatic transmission so that even those "Gear Challenged" people such as my wife could drive it. Had they done some of the modernisation along the way, this conversation wouldn't be occuring.

Hmm.

I have no problem with technology developments, in fact I am one of those who think the Defender has missed many opportunities to upgrade over the years. And I have no problem with progress.

What I was referring to in my postings is the arrogance of the current management at JLR and their design choices. When LR was inflicted by BL there were several possible projects that if implemented would have made it a truly successful brand (if you measure such things as numbers of units rolling off the assembly line). The choices that the BL management had involved taking power away from those who saw opportunities in technology (those who gave us permanent 4WD and a whole bunch of new tech). As a consequence the Ninety/One Ten and later Defender models languished. If the Massif had been successful and available in RHD and sold in this country I'd have got one.

I welcome change, but not those changes. I welcome innovation but not the Bull**** Bingo (http://bull****bingo.net/cards/bull****/) being played by this guy.

Edit: the filter doesn't like urls with naughty words :(

[TerryO]

Come on disco2HSE which part of a marketing person talking spin are you really shocked about?

All car companys are looking to the future and are vying for market share of 'new car buyers' what the opinions are of people who own much older same brand vehicles more than likely isn't so much of a concern.

I bet they have done plenty of market research and I bet that research shows that the vast majority of people who presently own older LR's are unlikely to ever buy a new one, so in reality what does it matter what the opinionated diehards think.

I don't own a Defender and right now I wouldn't, given I struggle to fit in one and the seating and driving position is to say the least very ordinary, plus the reliability issues of the new ones when driven seriously off road are a concern.

Do I like the idea of owning a Defender? Yes but the present offering is not that attractive or do I believe such good value. I will wait for the new one and see how good it is then decide. Why the anger about what this bloke has said only you know, personally I would never base any decision on what some management person says to the press years before the vehicle is even released anyway.

cheers,
Terry

[disco2hse]

Come on disco2HSE which part of a marketing person talking spin are you really shocked about?

...



:D

Yeah Terry you're right on the button.

Not shocked, just get tired of it. :angel:

I fully accept the new model is targetting the new middle class in mainland Asia. That's where the money is.

[PAT303]

EDIT: we have some tradies at the house of a couple of weeks (I'm BANNED from climbing ladders to paint...). They are a pragmatic bunch, happy in their work and most knowledgable on matters "automotive". The "company truck" is a venerable hilux which carries all their painting gear (and LADDERS). Not a spot of spilled paint anywhere and some very neat signage. New Hilux on the books? you've gotta be kidding! Land Rover...they'd just lurve a 130 dual cab... what are they waiting for? to see what Great Wall comes out with next year! They rattle off prices and comparos as if they've studied for an exam. They get around a lot and compare with other tradies on various jobs and their view is that Great Wall is going to totally rejig the light commercial market in the next few years like the Koreans are doing with the Hyundai in the small/medium car market... I guess we'll see[/QUOTE]

I worked for Regal engineering in Kalgoorlie and they bought a troopy V8 to get us to site,a tray back V8 to use on site and a Great wall as a general duties ute.The two V8's went back to Tojo with one problem after another,the Great Wall did 54,000 in 12months and did not suffer one single fault. Pat

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Land Rover bringing updated DC100 Defender concept to LA

By Noah Joseph (http://www.autoblog.com/bloggers/noah-joseph/) RSS feed (http://www.autoblog.com/bloggers/noah-joseph/rss.xml)
Posted Nov 3rd 2011 11:31AM



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/948.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/land-rover-dc100-sport-concept-frankfurt-2011/#photo-4439893)

We were all surprised when we arrived in Frankfurt (http://www.autoblog.com/frankfurt-auto-show/) a couple of months ago to find Land Rover (http://www.autoblog.com/land+rover) there with not one, but two distinct versions of the DC100 (http://www.autoblog.com/tag/dc100) concept: one hardtop and one open-air model. But when the LA Auto Show (http://www.autoblog.com/la-auto-show/) opens later this month, Land Rover is set to unveil a third version.

We don't know how the LA show car will differ from the two we've already seen, or what body-style it will carry. But together with the assertion attributed to the company's brand director that the next-generation Defender (http://www.autoblog.com/tag/defender) should appeal to "Californian surfer dude", it is a strong indication that the production DC100 will be offered in North America.

That's not who Land Rover will primarily target with the new model, however: the company aims to use the DC100 to get back in touch with its roots, marketing it to relief organizations and wilderness expeditions in the Third World.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/949.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/land-rover-dc100-sport-concept-frankfurt-2011/#photo-4439895/)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/950.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/land-rover-dc100-sport-concept-frankfurt-2011/#photo-4439893/)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/951.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/land-rover-dc100-sport-concept-frankfurt-2011/#photo-4439905/)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/952.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/land-rover-dc100-sport-concept-frankfurt-2011/#photo-4439904/)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/953.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/land-rover-dc100-sport-concept-frankfurt-2011/#photo-4439903/)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/954.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/land-rover-dc100-sport-concept-frankfurt-2011/#photo-4439897/)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/955.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/land-rover-dc100-sport-concept-frankfurt-2011/#photo-4439898/)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/956.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/land-rover-dc100-sport-concept-frankfurt-2011/#photo-4439901/)


Related GalleryLand Rover DC100 concept: Frankfurt 2011 (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/land-rover-dc100-concept-frankfurt-2011/)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/957.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/land-rover-dc100-concept-frankfurt-2011/#photo-4439671/)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/958.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/land-rover-dc100-concept-frankfurt-2011/#photo-4439674/)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/959.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/land-rover-dc100-concept-frankfurt-2011/#photo-4439673/)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/960.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/land-rover-dc100-concept-frankfurt-2011/#photo-4439659/)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/961.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/land-rover-dc100-concept-frankfurt-2011/#photo-4439654/)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/962.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/land-rover-dc100-concept-frankfurt-2011/#photo-4439652/)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/963.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/land-rover-dc100-concept-frankfurt-2011/#photo-4439661/)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/964.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/land-rover-dc100-concept-frankfurt-2011/#photo-4439657/)

[VK3UTE]

Can't see any pop rivets:angel::angel::angel:

[newhue]

Maybe I'm stuck in a time warp, I'm 41 and bought a new Defender in 2010. But I think the Defender has come to far already in it's wis bang electronics.
After killing the previous Jap car in water I was not impressed to find electric windows in the defender. The way the windows and doors locked with water ingress in the previous car was not a good feeling, and I for one want to use this Defender for what it was made. However I will be ****ting bricks when we go through Nolans Brook, or most likely find the chicken track simply due to electronics and water don't mix.

I don't need traction, ABS, stability control and the like so I can do 95 in the 60 zone, or tow a trailer at 130klm. I just drive to the conditions and limits. However that's a crap marketing blurb, very boring and doesn't sell cars.

LR will make the new Defender very capable off road, but designed to be traded in around the end of warranty. It's about selling the dream to the masses who are busy paying them off, with no time or brain to use the vehicle. This lack of brain works well because no one has the money to maintain a faulting (or potentially) electronic car, better off with the security of upgrading.

As as for the new Mini, it never replaced the old judging by the numbers on the road, and same for the VW Beatle and FJ Cruiser. LR would be better of just putting the Defender to to bed, instead of hanging on to past and embarrassing us all. .

[blitz]

Funny I will buy a defa but it will be with the 3.9 isuzu motor version so already I know I an buying an antique - why? because that model is the one I like the most. Or I will buy one of the ones being off loaded by the defence force either with or with out the isuzu motor; Why? because I just want one pure and simple, I want a vehicle with the minimalist level of electronics that I can buy, slap lockers in it, winch and suspension and it will go any where I want.

If I wanted bells and whistles then I would look at a RR Sports

[rijidij]

It will be versatile, it will be capable, it will be durable, it will be dependable, it will be abuse-able, it will be usable.



Land Rover's global brand boss states that it will be "abuse-able"............

Hmmmm, I wonder if the warranty will cover abuse, somehow I don't think so.

I actually like the look of the DC100, but, if that's the way they're going I think they should retire the 'Defender' name. I laugh when I see the words 'Land Cruiser' on the back of a Prado, it's not a Land Cruiser. I wouldn't see the DC100 as a Defender and I'd hate to see the name simply re-used for marketing purposes.

[PAT303]

They should call it the GHC100,Gay Hairdressers Car 100. Pat

[rick130]

[snip]
I laugh when I see the words 'Land Cruiser' on the back of a Prado, it's not a Land Cruiser. I wouldn't see the DC100 as a Defender and I'd hate to see the name simply re-used for marketing purposes.

My sister calls her Prado "The Land Cruiser" :rolleyes:

It drives me nuts......


They should call it the GHC100,Gay Hairdressers Car 100. Pat


Not that there's anything wrong with that..... ;)

Oh, and my hairdresser is driving an old ute ATM, and his ex-partner owns a brace of Husky saws.
Makes a mean macchiato too :D