shocks

[muddymech]

while the exchange rate is so good thinking of changeing the shocks in the puma
anyone got an opinion experiance of whats good.
previous experiance i like the bilsteins
but what about the konis
we are switching from terrafirrma which have not really been that great.
ian

[tuffrangie]

I'm in the process of fitting King smooth body shocks to my Puma, these are probably the best shock on the market that is 'bolt in' that money can buy. Aiming for 1-2in lift and on road/high range dirt handling.

Will post progress pictures and results if you can hold out for a week or two

Rob

[tonic]

Hi Ian


I have just put Tough Dog foam filled on my Defer. I have not worked them yet as still in the midle of a rebuild of sorts. They seem very good on the road.

Went with them due to their performance in an overall comparo in 4WD Action magazine. They won.

If you get them, dont do what I did. I called the shop and told them they were stuffed. It turns out these type of shocks are not fully extended from new. The act like buggered ones of old, they just push in and you pull them out. This is apparently because of the way they work in both directions.

Been a few years since I worked on a car so am catching up on all this new design stuff:bangin:, felt a bit silly.

The defer cam with Bilstein. One had buggered bushes so I changed the lot, when you see them side by side, the Tough Dogs are much bigger with bigger bushes etc. No doubt Bilstein have different models.

Hope this helps.

Tony

[Xtreme]

I've used both Billies and Koni's in Defenders and although the Billies produced quite a noticible improvement in regard to body roll and general handling when first fitted, they only lasted about 60,000kms.

On the other hand, I've had Koni's in a Series I Disco and three separate Defenders and can't fault them for performance and longevity - done well over 100,000kms on a set and have a friend who has done over 220,000kms and his Koni's are still working well.

Can't get much more punishing terrain than the corrigations of the Gunbarrel or the spinifex moguls of the Madigan Line but although, when we stopped for morning tea, the Koni's were too hot to touch, they continued to perform satisfactorily.

I know there are people who will swear by one or the other but for me it's Koni's that have the runs on the board.

[justinc]

No mucking about with unproven stuff in my experience, Koni,(especially Koni Raid), Bilstein, or DeCarbon are the best of the off the shelf brands. Have been proven in horrific outback (REAL australian outback) conditions; loaded, high speed and high temps and basically there are few off the shelf shocks around in the market place that will cope.

Cheaps shocks are a crime against humanity.

SPEND THE MONEY, do it right. You will be glad you did.

JC

[p38arover]

Ian, I recently bought Bilsteins from the USA for the P38A. Cost here: $220 each. From the USA: US$359 for 4. At the time that worked out to about A$340 (plus bank charges).

However, the seller I used doesn't ship overseas. I had them shipped to a fellow Admin (in the USA) from the RR.Net forum and picked them up whilst visiting him.

I was going to bring them back in my checked luggage but found Qantas wouldn't carry them as they were gas shocks.

So I went to a US post office and mailed them back (US$126),

I'm sure there are resellers who will ship overseas.

[PAT303]

I'm in the process of fitting King smooth body shocks to my Puma, these are probably the best shock on the market that is 'bolt in' that money can buy. Aiming for 1-2in lift and on road/high range dirt handling.

Will post progress pictures and results if you can hold out for a week or two

Rob

I've never heard of King smooth body shocks,who makes them?. Pat

[djam1]

Koni Raid are the only shock for rough roads in my opinion, that said I agree with Justin's analysis.
Do it right do it once you cant skimp on shocks most of the stuff made in Australia are substandard in my experience.

[pibby]

i got a full set of de carbon from here $270 plus shipping :

De Carbon Uprated Shock Absorber Kit - Land Rover at www.rimmerbros.co.uk (http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RA1344DECARBON)

or they've got bilstein set of 4 $430 :

Bilstein Uprated Shock Absorber Kit - Defender 90-110 at www.rimmerbros.co.uk (http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-LL1112)

on the de carbon paddocks were about 15 pound cheaper but i rang them up to check something on my order and they said they won't ship them via air because of the gas in them, they've had a few knocked back at the airport. but they weren't able to specifiy the gas when declaring so that's why. they were looking into this. on the other hand i checked with rimmers, no probs so got them from there. postage - i got other stuff with my order so not relevant if just getting shocks.

put them on a 1999 td5 defender - bloody marvellous. i run round empty 99% of the time but when loaded/with trailer still great.

[rick130]

I've never heard of King smooth body shocks,who makes them?. Pat

King :p

Fox make bolt in for Defenders too, complete with CD adjuster on the can, I didn't realise King do as well.

Some prefer Fox as the shafts won't rust if nicked, AFAIK they are only standard stroke, but don't quote me on that.

King Off-Road Racing Shocks: Coil Overs, Bypass, OEM, UTV, Air Shocks, Bump Stops, Springs, Replacment Parts, Tools, Springs « King Off-Road Racing Shocks : kingshocks.com (http://www.kingshocks.com/)

FOX / Truck / Shocks (http://www.foxracingshox.com/filter.php'm=truck&t=shocks&make=Land%20Rover&ref=subhome)

[muddymech]

thanks all.
i had bilsteins on teh disco and was pleased with them.
i like the feed back on the koni's will see what me and DB can find price wise as teh exchnage rate is good with the US.
never had any experinace or heard of any experinace with decarbon shocks.

thinking about it no one has mentioned pro comp, we had lthose on lou's disco and was pleased with them

ian

[tuffrangie]

King shocks with a remote reservoir will surpass any other shock on the market. There is not a bolt in kit but I am working on getting them to fit. The advantage of the king over the fox is the 2.5in diameter rather than just 2in. Mine should be done in the next week or two.

Rohan Canavan is doing the install and valving. Once installed we will spend a day tuning them. He is a guru.

[rick130]

King shocks with a remote reservoir will surpass any other shock on the market. There is not a bolt in kit but I am working on getting them to fit. The advantage of the king over the fox is the 2.5in diameter rather than just 2in. Mine should be done in the next week or two.

Rohan Canavan is doing the install and valving. Once installed we will spend a day tuning them. He is a guru.

hahahaha, surpass any other shock ? really ?

Fox make 2.5 and 3" body dampers, as does SAW and Bilstein and they all win multiple off road races.

Ever heard of Ohlins ? Reiger ? Donerre ? ZF Sachs ?

Have a look under the Dakar cars and most use these Euro dampers, I've even seen some of the old Schlesser buggies with a mix of Ohlins and Fox.

They all make brilliant dampers and the Euro ones above use some very trick valving systems and are a lot more expensive than the US made ones.

I come from a circuit race background and mate I worked for back in the mid nineties had a set of Ohlins triple adjustable shocks that we used on customer cars that were worth $10,000 for the set.

I don't know Rohan, I've heard Deon Beattie is very good with off road stuff too.
I used Gary Baker in Melbourne for Bilstein re-valving. He is a shock setup guru.

Please don't make silly statements to justify your purchase.
It's great that you are using big Kings, I'm envious, my plan was to mount 2.5" Billies all round but I haven't got there yet.
Some of us have been around suspensions for a while, there's a few blokes on here that currently race off road too.

I'm sure King make good stuff, I'd readily have them on my car but surpass anything else available ?
Please......

It all comes down to setup.

[dmdigital]

Ian, I can't fault either the Koni Heavy Tracks on the Tdi or the Raids on the Puma. The Raids are amazing and after 400km on the track still don't get too hot to hold your hand against. The price of the Raids has dropped a bit since I bought mine and I suspect you may be able to get them from OS for under A$1000 now too.

I have Foxx on the Kamper and they too are excellent. I considered these or Kings for the Puma but couldn't get any clear info on what would fit at the time.

[flyreels]

The price of the Raids has dropped a bit since I bought mine and I suspect you may be able to get them from OS for under A$1000 now too.
Hi any idea were from?
Thanks Peter

[eddy]

I have bought Bilsteins from Bilstein - KYB - Rancho - Monroe - Edelbrock Automotive Truck Shocks and Struts - Shockwarehouse.com (http://www.shockwarehouse.com) some years ago, when the dollar was not as good as it is now,great service.You could try Googling for a discount code for an even better price.

[PAT303]

I can't fault Koni's,Bilstein,Sachs or the OME L322 shocks as all of them have worked well on my travels and I do want to try the Terrafirma's just to see what they are like but a few have had problems with them.I've had Rancho's and KYB on my work vehicles and really don't think much of them,the Koni raids would be nice and I'd pay a grand for them. Pat

[dmdigital]

Hi any idea were from?
Thanks Peter
In Australian - Suspension Stuff.
OS - I can't recall where I tried but back in 2009 I wasn't going to save anything buying this way. The dollar has improved "a little" since then :)

[flyreels]

In Australian - Suspension Stuff.
OS - I can't recall where I tried but back in 2009 I wasn't going to save anything buying this way. The dollar has improved "a little" since then :)

Hi Thanks, Suspension Stuff are $1580 for 4 Koni raids.thats why I asked as i haven't found any overseas any cheaper by the time they get here
Cheers

[rick130]

Try Proven Products at Albury ;)

Toperformance in Melbourne are good too.

Both are good to deal with and both are the official Australian importers for Koni.

[eddy]

For Koni's tryKoni - UltraRev.com - Situated in Oud-Beyerland just south of Rotterdam in the Netherlands, KONI began business in 1857, manufacturing horse harnesses and upholstery. By 1918 production switchedto spring covers and later, metal car panel beating/spra (http://www.ultrarev.com/koni/?&re_makeid=47)

[tuffrangie]

hahahaha, surpass any other shock ? really ?

Fox make 2.5 and 3" body dampers, as does SAW and Bilstein and they all win multiple off road races.

Ever heard of Ohlins ? Reiger ? Donerre ? ZF Sachs ?

Have a look under the Dakar cars and most use these Euro dampers, I've even seen some of the old Schlesser buggies with a mix of Ohlins and Fox.

They all make brilliant dampers and the Euro ones above use some very trick valving systems and are a lot more expensive than the US made ones.

I come from a circuit race background and mate I worked for back in the mid nineties had a set of Ohlins triple adjustable shocks that we used on customer cars that were worth $10,000 for the set.

I don't know Rohan, I've heard Deon Beattie is very good with off road stuff too.
I used Gary Baker in Melbourne for Bilstein re-valving. He is a shock setup guru.

Please don't make silly statements to justify your purchase.
It's great that you are using big Kings, I'm envious, my plan was to mount 2.5" Billies all round but I haven't got there yet.
Some of us have been around suspensions for a while, there's a few blokes on here that currently race off road too.

I'm sure King make good stuff, I'd readily have them on my car but surpass anything else available ?
Please......

It all comes down to setup.

Yes you can always find something better however in the context of the conversation the King 2.5in that will fit the Defender are one of the best shocks bang for you buck that money can buy! Why spend $1580 on Konis when you can have better for similar money?

How much are the Billies remote res? Haven't priced them up.

The comparable Fox are 2in that are bolt in that you mentioned. You have to compare apples with apples, King do a seven tube bypass shock too that are extremely expensive but they are irrelevant for this use.

Yes surpass any other shock is an incorrect statemement, however, for this application, bang for your buck, I think you would struggle to buy better. I am not trying to justify my purchase, I know my suspension is going to be fantastic, just assist a fellow defender owner get the most out of their car whilst spending the least and save them the stuff around of measuring and matching shocks to fit.

Rohan sets up a lot of the more extreme 4wd race cars and is a fantastic person to work with. I woudn't hesitate recommending him for car servicing and modifications from mild to wild. He is located in Lilydale, Vic. and is also a Terrafirma dealer now.

I do agree it is in the setup though, as long as there is something decent to start with.

Rob

[Fraz]

Is there some sort of guide or calculator for those less informed about which type of shock to order for different vehicles? Following this thread with interest, Im up for reshocking my 130 and will obviously need different shocks for it, but how do i make an informed decision?

[uninformed]

First of all, billy's 2.5's are actually 2.65.....

Tuffrangie, are you running the 2.5 kings inside your front coil? What travel length are you running?

[tuffrangie]

Yep. Maintaining stock wheel travel, I do a lot of hwy and high speed dirt driving so I don't need the huge amounts of travel. I haven't fitted them yet. Cycling the suspension through its range of movement there appears to be enough clearance to the spring perch.

Have you had any experience in big shocks inside the spring? We are aiming for factory fit as close as possible as my car has only done 50k so it would be nice to maintain as much warranty as I can.

Cheers
Rob

[uninformed]

Yep. Maintaining stock wheel travel, I do a lot of hwy and high speed dirt driving so I don't need the huge amounts of travel. I haven't fitted them yet. Cycling the suspension through its range of movement there appears to be enough clearance to the spring perch.

Have you had any experience in big shocks inside the spring? We are aiming for factory fit as close as possible as my car has only done 50k so it would be nice to maintain as much warranty as I can.

Cheers
Rob

Not me, but I did alot of digging and asked alot of the guys (worth asking) in the Rover section on Pirate4x4. KC one of the more practical and knowledgeable guys, has set up alot of his own and customers trucks with the likes of Fox, King, Bilstein ect. He had 2.0 Fox's on his d90 and was using 12 inch travel type (using all of that travel to) and these 2.0's would rub inside the coil spring perch... I wanted to go the 2.65 Billy's but due to not wanting to outboard mount the shock I stuck with the 2.0 Bilstein in 9100....this had some extra advantages: After speaking to Rick, he had some thoughts regarding how the shaft dia would affect the performance of the shock. Also the resivor on the 9100 is HUGE...same size for the 2.0 or the 2.65 in the 9100 series. you can get these in a 9100 smooth body, coil over or bypass, then above that you are looking at the 9300 then the black hawk series $$$$$$$ So I went for the 9100 in 2.0 with the 7/8th shaft. Im yet to mount them but was more just keen to get them while the $$$ was good.

Re Brand, King is very good, but from all the stuff I have read from the USA, it seems Fox then king....Bilstein arent as popular but they arnt the cheapest either...and for reason. Yes you may get a king 2.5 for the same amount as a Fox 2.0 and your apples is $$$ but side by side a Fox and king 2.5 the Fox will be a bit better in build and finish, but nit enough to worry about......funny thing when I did my price shopping (many hrs) I was first looking at fox and king and I found both 2.5s within a few dollars or so????

what vehicle are you putting these one? Def? regardless, unless its a Disco 2, the rear upper shock mount is at a horrible angle and induces binding at stock ride height standing still...start to travel the shock and it only becomes worse...I would seriously address this area regardless of shock length. Do king make short body versions like other brands? because if you have 10 inch shocks in standard body you will need to raise both your rear and front upper mounts otherwise destroy your nice new kings.


btw, pics in this thread when you have them fitted :cool:

[uninformed]

here is some stuff to watch:

check out the size of the resivour on the 9100 and compare it to the 7100 and the guys hand....haha bigger is better right
Bilstein Shocks Overview - YouTube

Chaîne de randomthoughtsracing - YouTube

[PAT303]

Serg,your right about the shock mount,do you know of a replacement?. Pat

[uninformed]

Serg,your right about the shock mount,do you know of a replacement?. Pat

Wagoo was the one that put me onto it, well alot of people. I remember reading some time ago, Bill did some cycling of rear suspesion and played around with the top shock mount angle. What he came up with is pretty much what is on the Disco 2. Unfortunately these are welded on, not bolted like Def, RRC etc. I have made my own out of rediculously over sized material (all I had lying around) these will bolt on. If I was you, take a good look at the Disco 2 rear upper, copy it and fab up something that will bolt on. If you are going to put new shocks on and they are longer closed, you will be able to make your new mount to suit (with in reason, under your floor area) keep the standard shock postion and angle of body, just the mount angle to change. I have not seen ANY aftermarket mount that is different to the stock other than height and the extreme from Equippe....

[rick130]

I think if you're only using stock stroke the 2.5" bore dampers will work as the Koni Raid is 70mm diameter and they fit.

Rob, I agree with your comment above re Raids vs King/Fox/Billies, but it's only viable if you can do it yourself or have access to someone that can fit and valve them.
You can, so more power to you.

The Koni Raid would probably be one of the best shocks for someone that just wants a bolt in, standard stroke damper for outback touring though.

[dullbird]

I think if you're only using stock stroke the 2.5" bore dampers will work as the Koni Raid is 70mm diameter and they fit.

Rob, I agree with your comment above re Raids vs King/Fox/Billies, but it's only viable if you can do it yourself or have access to someone that can fit and valve them.
You can, so more power to you.


The Koni Raid would probably be one of the best shocks for someone that just wants a bolt in, standard stroke damper for outback touring though.

We are looking at going with the Koni Raid while the dollar is good..just waiting to see if a friend in the US can post for us as Ian gets a discount with a shipping company but you have to drop it there...
And we will be getting the standard stroke as we have the standard setup...:)

[uninformed]

It would be great if someone can confirm the outside dia of the Koni Raid and that through full articulation cycle that they dont rub/foul on the inside of the front spring perch. I know people here have them, but I do wonder if there may be some unknown rubbing going on. It would be a shame if these great shocks were getting a shortend life due to this.

[Fraz]

We are looking at going with the Koni Raid while the dollar is good..just waiting to see if a friend in the US can post for us as Ian gets a discount with a shipping company but you have to drop it there...
And we will be getting the standard stroke as we have the standard setup...:)

Which company are you going through? Im after the same setup but have no idea on the part numbers and haven't started researching prices yet. Could you post a link perhaps?
Cheers

[dullbird]

I actually went through the link post above on page 3 however I got a quote for shipping and it is 300dollars which pushes the price right up.

Still I also got quote from another supply posted on this page and they wanted 800+ front and 900+ back without postage!!

the US worked out 930 bux a full set...we are trying to get them in as close to a grand as possible to avoid import tax.

Serg hopefully derek will see this and measure the diameter as he currently has them on his puma. will be interesting to know because I think the Terrafirma big bores we have on are huge it would be interesting to compare sizes.

[uninformed]

IMO Koni make some of the best shocks. The only thing that lets them down is the availabe lengths to suit our applications. The raids seem to be getting very good reports. It would be interesting to see Koni do some remote res race shocks in the likes of Bilstein, fox, ohlins etc

[Fraz]

Just went onto Ultrarev which seems to be having a sale.
Priced front and rear Koni Raid kits for the 130, total cost AU$697.17 including shipping AND insurance to northern NSW.

Can anyone confirm these part numbers first?
1 90 5374 Koni HT Raid Shocks Front $229.11 $229.11
1 90 5375 Koni HT Raid Shocks Rear $236.80 $236.80

Either thats wrong or nows the time to buy!

Forgive my stupidity here, but for a standard ride, why the Koni Raids? Do they have the same feel to them as stock, or harder or softer?

[flyreels]

Hi
Rear 90 5401 40 to 60mm lift
Rear 90 5375 0 to 40mm lift
Front 90 5374 0 to 50mm lift
99 to 04 -130
Cheers Peter

[flyreels]

Just went onto Ultrarev which seems to be having a sale.
Priced front and rear Koni Raid kits for the 130, total cost AU$697.17 including shipping AND insurance to northern NSW.

Can anyone confirm these part numbers first?
1 90 5374 Koni HT Raid Shocks Front $229.11 $229.11
1 90 5375 Koni HT Raid Shocks Rear $236.80 $236.80

Either thats wrong or nows the time to buy!

Forgive my stupidity here, but for a standard ride, why the Koni Raids? Do they have the same feel to them as stock, or harder or softer?

Hi before you get to excited the price is $931.82 before post not $697.17
Cheers Peter

[rick130]

[snip]

Forgive my stupidity here, but for a standard ride, why the Koni Raids? Do they have the same feel to them as stock, or harder or softer?

Better able to cope with higher loads/heat/abuse in hard, high speed, poor road/track conditions over a 'standard' damper.

In very, very simple terms, all a damper does is convert kinetic energy to heat.

The bigger the damper's oil volume the greater it's ability to cope with heat.

[flagg]

How much are the Billies remote res? Haven't priced them up.

Rob

My 7100 RR 10" were less than 900 landed. Not bolt in though, custom work required.

They are doing a great job.... Filling a box in my garage while I do other things. Should have them in early next year, and will report back.

[Fraz]

Hi before you get to excited the price is $931.82 before post not $697.17
Cheers Peter

No, thats included. Time to get excited?

40715

[flyreels]

No, thats included. Time to get excited?

40715

Hi you must have a magic 4x4 that only uses 2 shocks instead of 4?
Those prices are per EACH not per PAIR :p
Sorry

[Fraz]

Hi you must have a magic 4x4 that only uses 2 shocks instead of 4?
Those prices are per EACH not per PAIR :p
Sorry

Im just glad you told me :cool:
Maybe the excitement made me read the word 'kit' or something
Now i feel stupid :p

Still, $900 is better than $1500 from Suspension Stuff

[flyreels]

Im just glad you told me :cool:
Maybe the excitement made me read the word 'kit' or something
Now i feel stupid :p

Still, $900 is better than $1500 from Suspension Stuff

No its easily done, I have done in myself and yes it is still a good price
Regards Peter

[dullbird]

hahah I read that and thought mmmm some sale I only got the quote 4 days ago hahahahahahah.

yeah you are looking at the same ones as me if you buy from these guys its 930 the set and 300 for the shipping..well thats quoted to Sydney

[Daniel]

I can't fault Koni's,Bilstein,Sachs or the OME L322 shocks as all of them have worked well on my travels and I do want to try the Terrafirma's just to see what they are like but a few have had problems with them.I've had Rancho's and KYB on my work vehicles and really don't think much of them,the Koni raids would be nice and I'd pay a grand for them. Pat

Hi Pat

I've imported some new front struts for my L322 but am now looking for new rear shocks - what did you replace yours with?

[PAT303]

Stay original IMHO. Pat