Locking diff options

[Presto]

Hi all,

During the last service on my D3, I received a comment that the diff oils had a metallic appearance, so they "should be watched carefully". Assuming at some point that they will need replacing (hopefully not at the next service - next week), I'd like the option of a locking diff rather than replacing the std open diff. Are there any other options that anyone knows of rather than trying to retrofit the LR optional e-Diff?

[isuzurover]

Hi all,

During the last service on my D3, I received a comment that the diff oils had a metallic appearance, so they "should be watched carefully". Assuming at some point that they will need replacing (hopefully not at the next service - next week), I'd like the option of a locking diff rather than replacing the std open diff. Are there any other options that anyone knows of rather than trying to retrofit the LR optional e-Diff?

There are no other options at this stage.

ARB R&D said it is a question of when not if, but when will be a long time coming at this stage.

[101RRS]

As said not an option at this stage.

But I cannot see why the e diff could not be installed and wired up to work separate to the cars systems (so it is either fully on or off) with a simple on/off switch in the cabin. I would like to have a look at this but I do not have the resources.

Garry

[Presto]

There are no other options at this stage.

ARB R&D said it is a question of when not if, but when will be a long time coming at this stage.

I hope Ashcrofts do it first or it will be AU$1000 or US$500 (inc shipping) from ARB :angel:

[Presto]

As said not an option at this stage.

But I cannot see why the e diff could not be installed and wired up to work separate to the cars systems (so it is either fully on or off) with a simple on/off switch in the cabin. I would like to have a look at this but I do not have the resources.

Garry

What's the price of an e-Diff? off the shelf? ...I've heard they were installed with stronger axles too?

[101RRS]

I hope Ashcrofts do it first or it will be AU$1000 or US$500 (inc shipping) from ARB :angel:


What's the price of an e-Diff? off the shelf? ...I've heard they were installed with stronger axles too?

I have asked Ashcrofts about this and at this stage they have no intention of making a diff lock for the D3 etc.

No idea of price but I have seen second hand on Ebay UK for about £800.

[Psimpson7]

Someone in the UK has retrofitted an ediff to a non ediff car. There is a pdf somewhere on the internet on how to do it

They made the comment that the Ediff was supplied with upgraded rear axles and CV's (he bought the complete lot of parts in one go from a breaker)

[Presto]

I have asked Ashcrofts about this and at this stage they have no intention of making a diff lock for the D3 etc.

No idea of price but I have seen second hand on Ebay UK for about £800.

Thanks!
Ashcrofts would be crazy not to?? ...hell if they don't I'll start designing one myself!! :angel:

The D3 will be the next D1/D2 and as prices come down, everyone will want at least a rear locker!

[Psimpson7]

Links on this thread to how he did it

Disco3Club The Discovery 3 and 4 Owners Club • View topic - Locking Diff retro-fit (http://www.disco3club.co.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=943&start=20)

[isuzurover]

Not an easy task to squeeze a locker in (according to ARB).

The e-Diff is not a true locker - more like an active LSD.

[Presto]

Not an easy task to squeeze a locker in (according to ARB).

The e-Diff is not a true locker - more like an active LSD.

More reason to develop a full mechanical locker! :)

[Presto]

I emailed Dave at Ashcrofts and he got back to me already:

Hi,

sorry but we have no plans at the moment,

I am not sure many people are using them for hard off road as yet, also I asked the question on the D3 forum and the answers I got were that if was not required as they have great traction control,

Dave

[101RRS]

I emailed Dave at Ashcrofts and he got back to me already:

Hi,

sorry but we have no plans at the moment,

I am not sure many people are using them for hard off road as yet, also I asked the question on the D3 forum and the answers I got were that if was not required as they have great traction control,

Dave

I already told you that :D.

[Presto]

I already told you that :D.

Yes you did, but I'd already sent the email before I got your reply! :angel:

[Presto]

Those that would be interested in a D3 locking diff, please show your interest here to justify Ashcroft's development of a magic diff centre. :)

[400HPONGAS]

Hey Presto ,maybe you should read Garrycols/ashcroft reply again !
I asked the question on the D3 forum and the answers I got were that if was not required as they have great traction control,
Look at the Calendar its 2011 not 1980 , modern traction control is better than difflocks !

[Presto]

Hey Presto ,maybe you should read Garrycols/ashcroft reply again !
I asked the question on the D3 forum and the answers I got were that if was not required as they have great traction control,
Look at the Calendar its 2011 not 1980 , modern traction control is better than difflocks !

Sorry, but I disagree. I have both a D1 (fully locked) and D3 (traction control), and although traction control is very clever, I don't think you'll ever beat mechanical lockers, especially where time is an issue (eg, time trials) where you find you're waiting for the traction control to go through it's various scenarios before it decides to find the right combination.

Why would a D3/D4 e-Diff be an upgrade unless it was "better"?

[101RRS]

Sorry, but I disagree. I have both a D1 (fully locked) and D3 (traction control), and although traction control is very clever, I don't think you'll ever beat mechanical lockers, especially where time is an issue (eg, time trials) where you find you're waiting for the traction control to go through it's various scenarios before it decides to find the right combination.

I agree, particularly if you have forgotten to turn DSC off or it has turned itself back on after a TR change.

Garry

[isuzurover]

Hey Presto ,maybe you should read Garrycols/ashcroft reply again !
I asked the question on the D3 forum and the answers I got were that if was not required as they have great traction control,
Look at the Calendar its 2011 not 1980 , modern traction control is better than difflocks !

:D

So that is why my twin locked '80s 110 could idle up a hill that a D4 needed to have 50 attempts at. ;)

[jonesy63]

If the D4 driver forgot to turn off DSC... yes

[DiscoWeb]

:D

So that is why my twin locked '80s 110 could idle up a hill that a D4 needed to have 50 attempts at. ;)

Tyres and suspension could also have had something to do with it!

Obviously not the driver :wasntme:

My D3 has the rear e-diff so i have no idea how they perform without it but they are bloody good with it.

George

[isuzurover]

Tyres and suspension could also have had something to do with it!

Obviously not the driver :wasntme:

My D3 has the rear e-diff so i have no idea how they perform without it but they are bloody good with it.

George

No certainly not the driver... I can't drive for the proverbial :D

Yes - I was having a slight lend, the D4 in question had stock (road) tyres.

However the best ETC system will not equal manual lockers - especially at crawl speeds.

The guys at haultech who developed their own ETC system, that is far more sensitive than anything from LR found that ETC + F&R (Tight) LSDs, was about as good as twin lockers. So an e-diff + ETC is probaly about 99% as good as a locker. However to me the e-diff actuation seems a bit on the fragile side, and I like my lockers strong and low-tech.

[gghaggis]

All my D3/RRS have had the rear eLocker (and of course the centre diff is the same) and I've never had an issue with them being "fragile"?

In terms of sheer traction, a D3 with rear eLocker + someone who knows how to use it, is perhaps 99% as effective as a non-ETC car with _dual_ lockers, not just one. You wont see any slippage of the front wheels when in rock-crawl, even with a front wheel off the ground. And in many other situations, the TR/eLocker combo is far more flexible than simple mechanical lockers - as we showed at the recent WA-AULRO fun day out.

You won't get a mechanically twin-lockered D3 anywhere that a TR/eLocker D3 won't go. What limits the vehicles (when compared to heavily modified twin-locked Patrols etc) is the tyre size and ramp-over angle.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Presto]

I didn't mean this to be, and don't want it to continue to be, a TR/TC v's mechanical lockers debate. However, I think what is clear is that having the e-diff in a D3 does make a big difference, and most (would anyone like to guess a percentage?) D3's out there were not supplied with an e-diff.

The reason I'm looking for locker options is that you simply can't buy an e-diff off the shelf and put it in your non-e-diff supplied D3 (as far as I'm aware!?).

Can anyone confirm that you can't walk into an LR dealer and order an e-Diff?

Doesn't anyone agree that an off the shelf locker option for a D3 would be valuable?

[Presto]

for anyone interested, this links shows some interesting images of cut away diff housings showing std open and e-diff.

Rear locking differential - Land Rover and Range Rover Forums (http://forums.landroverworld.org/showthread.php't=13328)

[gghaggis]

Can anyone confirm that you can't walk into an LR dealer and order an e-Diff?

Doesn't anyone agree that an off the shelf locker option for a D3 would be valuable?

You can order an eDiff, but no dealer will fit it for you - which I guess is what you're asking - as it's deemed a factory-only option.

An after-market rear locker would indeed be a useful option for those that didn't order the rear eLocker. But you'd at least need the uprated axles and cv joints too.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Blknight.aus]

:D

So that is why my twin locked '80s 110 could idle up a hill that a D4 needed to have 50 attempts at. ;)

TC, difflocks hell not even the fact one was a manual vs a sludge box it was simply the hill gave up to the vehicle, more of "oh, crap, If I dont let him up he'll just let that thing idle at me till the vibrations cause me to collapse into a mole hill then drive over that " than "my isnt that new vehicle just so soft on my precious upper crust, with nary a wheel spin or slip to disturb my my fragile slate skin, I will let him progress peaceably"

edit.

looking at the pics its not a FULL locker but an LSD with variable preload on the clutches, Wouldnt want to rely on it the way I would a mechanical locker. I suspect that it would suffer from contaminated oil the same way a traditional LSD would but being variable would keep winding on the pressure till it totally pooched the packs.

[isuzurover]

All my D3/RRS have had the rear eLocker (and of course the centre diff is the same) and I've never had an issue with them being "fragile"? ...

It was suggested in a previous thread that they wouldn't be able to hold up to being 100% positively locked for long periods, like a manual locker.

That may be incorrect, and is a moot point if you are controlling the diff via the OEM methods.

[Presto]

Interesting to read in that link above that they consider a full size spare to be an indication that you have the e-diff! ...I have a full size spare, but my e-diff is missing! :p

Although I was also surprised (more naive) to the fact that the e-diff doesn't actually have an on/off switch but is simply controlled as part of the TR system!?

[Blknight.aus]

The e diff provides more than just a simple open/locked setting...

it also provides for varying rotational difference like a limited slipper and the amount it accepts changes with the various TR settings.

The cool thing is that it ties in with the TC system and eases up the amount of work the TC has to do but still allows the TC to function IF you get looser than the TR system thinks your going to. The TC reacts faster than the E diff can so it provides a "Fix it right now" solution while the E diff provides the "cavalry support"

Whats the bet that the steering angle sense comes into the fold and makes the E-Diff back off as you crank the steering on to allow proper ackerman style cornering?


Guess Im up for a "heres what this diff does" type tute in the very near future.

[Presto]

........Guess Im up for a "heres what this diff does" type tute in the very near future.

I recon you'd be better of getting a tutorial on how to shorten your signature! :eek: ....:wasntme:

[Blknight.aus]

I did,

its currently 2 characters under the limit...

therefore.

short enough.

at least I dont have the list of all the vehicles I've owned, have wrecked in the yard and are constantly doing repairs on.

[connock]

Slightly off subject, But is the oil for the E diff Castrol Bot 720 ??


connock