Cracked 4.6 block, Sourcing replacement engine.

[jamison]

Hi all

So, 3rd P38 (1996) in a row that has done this to me but the first here in Australia... damn it! You'd think I'd learn but I just love these cars.... suddenly I'm seeing how much more expensive things are here - so am looking for advice if that's ok.

Head gaskets were fine (suspiciously looking like they were replaced just before I purchased the car) but car drinking water and overheating when towing... Cylinders 5 & 6 steam cleaned... the heads are off and the liners look like they are in place, so suspect cracked blocks behind one of the liners.

So.... am looking for a new bottom end/ short engine - or even a long engine if the price is right.

I've got quotes from Turner Engineering in the UK, with short at around 4k AUD and long at 6-7k shipping of around 500 bucks - does anyone have any recommendations for sources here in Victoria?

Do any companies do the top hat lining? Is it really worth doing on a suspect block?

Thanks in advance and any recommendations will be greatly appreciated.

[justinc]

Hi all

So, 3rd P38 (1996) in a row that has done this to me but the first here in Australia... damn it! You'd think I'd learn but I just love these cars.... suddenly I'm seeing how much more expensive things are here - so am looking for advice if that's ok.

Head gaskets were fine (suspiciously looking like they were replaced just before I purchased the car) but car drinking water and overheating when towing... Cylinders 5 & 6 steam cleaned... the heads are off and the liners look like they are in place, so suspect cracked blocks behind one of the liners.

So.... am looking for a new bottom end/ short engine - or even a long engine if the price is right.

I've got quotes from Turner Engineering in the UK, with short at around 4k AUD and long at 6-7k shipping of around 500 bucks - does anyone have any recommendations for sources here in Victoria?

Do any companies do the top hat lining? Is it really worth doing on a suspect block?

Thanks in advance and any recommendations will be greatly appreciated.

TRS in Adelaide do top hat flanged liner engines on an exchange basis, we recently bought a 5 litre performance version (Forged pistons, Scat rods, bored and stroked) for a p38a from them about $10500 long engine. They do 4.6 Shorts for about $5800 to $6K with flanged liners from memory.

(08) 83846933, ask for Phil, speak only to Phil:D

JC

[Hoges]

Hmmm is this the time to consider a 2.7L diesel (TDV6) transplant?

Simtek UK 2.7 TD V6 Engine/ECU Information (http://www.bodylogicuk.com/90265/info.php?p=9)

Range Rover P38 to TDV6 Conversion Project (http://www.bodylogicuk.com/90265/info.php?p=10)

[Terrain Vehicles]

Turner's get my vote. Good company, nice people. We've had a few engines from them.

[p38arover]

I had top hat liners fitted a couple of years ago by Davis Performance Landies here in Sydney. Cost $2200 including liners.

I'm told this mob in Sydney also do them:

Balmain Engineering Pty Ltd
(02) 9439 0188

Melbourne? Can't help.

[jamison]

Yeah, I'm leaning toward Turners too - even with the shipping + 15% import/GST loading it's still a fair bit cheaper; that said I'm only going by prices that I've heard around here on TRS, I'll bell them Monday morning to be sure.

I love the idea of the diesel but I wouldn't want to pay for that here!

When I lived in the UK I actually test drove one converted by [the now out of business] stanton 4x4, they put a Mitsubishi diesel engine in place of the 4.6.... great concept but it was gutless top end, struggled to get to 70mph.

What do you reckon scrap value would be on a 96 4.6 HSE here in Oz? Since that is always an option now that i'm looking at 7-9k+ all up when it only cost me 9k! Even though a Pajero would work (ALL THE TIME!) I just can't imagine not hearing that delightful whistle from the Rangie as it swallows the next 100bucks in fuel.

[jamison]

I had top hat liners fitted a couple of years ago by Davis Performance Landies here in Sydney. Cost $2200 including liners.

I'm told this mob in Sydney also do them:

Balmain Engineering Pty Ltd
(02) 9439 0188

Melbourne? Can't help.


Thanks mate, the irony of it.... I just moved to Melbourne from Balmain, figuring that I'd find someone cheaper down here to sort the leaks out.... it was the drive down that made the problem much worse (I was towing a boat too)... ar well... another lesson learnt.

Did you keep your old block and still use the liners? I'm worried that I can't trust this block because it's almost certainly cracked. I guess I'm asking if the liners hold the water back regardless of the block behind being full of holes.

[rovercare]

What do you reckon scrap value would be on a 96 4.6 HSE here in Oz? .

I'll give ya 2k and pick it up today:D

[jamison]

I'll give ya 2k and pick it up today:D

ha, so worth at least 4 then :-)

[roverv8]

Head gaskets were fine (suspiciously looking like they were replaced just before I purchased the car) but car drinking water and overheating when towing... Cylinders 5 & 6 steam cleaned... the heads are off and the liners look like they are in place, so suspect cracked blocks behind one of the liners.

get the heads checked properly, are they warped or even cracked somewhere?

when you say cylinders 5 & 6, were both sides leaking?

[p38arover]

Did you keep your old block and still use the liners? I'm worried that I can't trust this block because it's almost certainly cracked. I guess I'm asking if the liners hold the water back regardless of the block behind being full of holes.

Yes, the liners are fitted to the old block.

[jamison]

get the heads checked properly, are they warped or even cracked somewhere?

when you say cylinders 5 & 6, were both sides leaking?

I'm using Pickards of Melbourne - seem like decent enough blokes. That said, a full engine replacement is better business than a skimmed/replaced head.

They have sent the heads away and the report back (I haven't seen it, just what I'm told) is that they are fine.. I could get a 2nd opinion I guess. Any recommendations for head checkers?!

I went to have a look and the two cylinders/pistons were extremely clean compared to the other 6, one looked brand new which suggests water/steam in the cylinder. The head gaskets looked pretty much spotless.

[p38arover]

Any sign of a slipped liner?

Do a search on this forum for that term.

See the pics and info I posted here: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/98592-block-identification-post1186783.html?highlight=slipped+liner#post11867 83

[Pierre]

It's probably good to remember that 4.0 litre BLOCK from D2 or p38 is essentially the same as 4.6. The crank, rods and pistons are different. I built a 4.6 from a 4 litre block that had slipped liners x2 with top hat liners from ACR in UK. I had Pearl Automotive Engineering in Montrose instal the liners and deck the block. Wayne offers a 'bare bones' to complete engine rebuild service, and at reasonable rates to the trade.

Remember that a workshop will offer the best and most profitable deal for THEM first.

Just another option.

Good luck,

Pete

[slug_burner]

I'd say anyone that is an LR specialist will have confronted the slipped liner or cracked head and will be able to offer a reconditioned or rebuild or your engine. They will have some machine shop that can the do the work required.

I would try AMV at Ringwood or Les Richmond for a comparitive price but $8k doe not sound that far fetched.

[DT-P38]

Agree with giving AMV a go, they have been the best source of honest, fair and just plain good value work on my P38 over the last 7-8 years or so of ownership...

They have reasonable hourly rates, will happily use parts you source yourself or can provide you with LR genuine, OME or tested used parts to complete the job.

In saying all that, make sure you talk to them directly (i.e no fuss or bull****) about what you already know and are leaning towards and then ask them about the options for your vehicle as they see it.

With out wanting to sound untrustworthy (as I do trust them), use some common sense and ask for written quotes for the various options. Also, tell them you have found them via referrals from AULRO. As with most businesses, they understand 'forum-ites' tend to keep each other informed.

I am no mechanic, but would say that if you intend keeping it for a reasonable period of time, make sure you "top hat" it. I didn't know about how important it was a few years ago and didn't get mine done... brand new LR short motor, but I still have that bugging me whenever I think about it.

Good luck, 3rd times a charm they say don't they?

[jamison]

Agree with giving AMV a go, they have been the best source of honest, fair and just plain good value work on my P38 over the last 7-8 years or so of ownership...

They have reasonable hourly rates, will happily use parts you source yourself or can provide you with LR genuine, OME or tested used parts to complete the job.

In saying all that, make sure you talk to them directly (i.e no fuss or bull****) about what you already know and are leaning towards and then ask them about the options for your vehicle as they see it.

With out wanting to sound untrustworthy (as I do trust them), use some common sense and ask for written quotes for the various options. Also, tell them you have found them via referrals from AULRO. As with most businesses, they understand 'forum-ites' tend to keep each other informed.

I am no mechanic, but would say that if you intend keeping it for a reasonable period of time, make sure you "top hat" it. I didn't know about how important it was a few years ago and didn't get mine done... brand new LR short motor, but I still have that bugging me whenever I think about it.

Good luck, 3rd times a charm they say don't they?

I'm getting good vibes on the Pickards lads, they seem open to my sourcing the stuff myself etc and aren't being pushy - so given she's got the heads off already it kinda makes sense to keep her there through to the end.

Got an interesting dilemma now... 6k for new long engine, 6k for recon top hatted recon long engine. this engine is the only engine in the world that would make me actually lean towards getting the recon top hatted version!!

In answer to the slipped liner 'ridges', no - none there right now but head gasket is fine and two pistons are clean as a whistle... car steamed from exhaust and had the pressurised cooling system - along with emission polluted water.

[Matt97]

on the subject, this article is one of the better out there as to why these engines need the flanged liners

JE Robison Service — the blog: The last word on Land Rover liner failures - I hope! (http://robisonservice.blogspot.com/2010/04/last-word-on-land-rover-liner-failures.html)

[Matt97]

this is the second, which pretty much says if you have an older p38, you'd be better to use the existing block and add the flanged liners than buy a new block

JE Robison Service — the blog: All you ever wanted to know about . . Land Rover V8 Engine Failures (http://robisonservice.blogspot.com/2009/10/all-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-land.html)

[slug_burner]

Check this out it might explain why you have steamed cleaned piston crowns and a pressurised cooling system.

Revised Land Rover Engine Block Tester - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=t-NrrCpHhP8)

[jamison]

Check this out it might explain why you have steamed cleaned piston crowns and a pressurised cooling system.

Revised Land Rover Engine Block Tester - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=t-NrrCpHhP8)

Does anyone have one of these in Melbourne?!

[jamison]

Well, I've bitten the bullet and have just ordered a top hatted long engine + PC216 cam from TRS and then new cooling parts (pump, rad etc) from mm-4x4 in the UK..... Dare to overheat now you so and so!

This god damn car, it's been sent to test me as a P38 lover... I swear it.

Will let you know how it goes as and when... thanks for all the advice and pointers, much appreciated.

[roverv8]

So, had any of your liners slipped at all??

[Pedro_The_Swift]

how does the 4.6 radiator differ from the 4L?

[Scouse]

There's a difference??

[Pedro_The_Swift]

how does the 4.6 radiator differ from the 4L?


There's a difference??

that answers that--;)

I've read the 5L have problems though,,

[Scouse]

I've read the 5L have problems though,,Yeah.........$$$$$$ to get one.