Newbie, needing sage advice

[SlowRide]

Hi all, i'm a newbie needing a bit of experienced advice. Posted this in another one of the sub forums, but I think this might be the right area.


After pestering him about it for 10 years, i've got the option of inheriting a late 60's SWB Land Rover off my uncle's property - to be truthful i'm not exactly sure of the model (a 2A I think). It's been sitting in a farm shed since I can remember and is a non-runner, but has no rust, chassis is straight, and it's the perfect upgrade from my much loved 1990 Suzuki Sierra that has served me well on and off-road for the last few years.

I'm basically looking for a fourby to use as a daily runner and day tripper when i'm back in town (I work offshore), something that can tow a tinny to the beach, but also capable of getting me to Cape York or the Kimberley for a seasonal adventure, and then get me home. The Sierra has been a fantastically reliable at getting me home (in sickness or health), but it's a bit of a sardine tin that is beginning to become a money pit, and my days of seeking the hardest tracks and deepest mud are long gone in favour of touring... so time for a change to something more suitable.

But first - time to do some costing.

The engine will need an overhaul, so i'm wondering if I can do an EFI conversion to drag it into the modern day. From my brief internettings, something like a 200tdi motor is supposed to be a straight forward conversion (if you scrap the turbo install)... but happy to be corrected if i'm off the mark here. What will it cost to source a 200tdi, what do they generally cost to recondition? Do they bolt straight on or is that just internet fluff stories? 35MPG would be a dream if it's true :cool: I'm happy to sort the electricals and the mechanical install, but any fabrication i'll have to outsource.

More questions - what's it cost to reco gearboxes, diffs, transfer cases of Land Rovers of this era? What's it cost to upgrade to disc brakes? What reliability issues am I likely to face with mild off-roading? Do spare parts exist anymore? What engineers requirements will I have to meet? And lastly - if no shortcuts are taken will I have a car that is 100% reliable, or am I better of waiting another year until I can afford a Defender 90?

Lots of Q's here, but i'd appreciate any answers given

[Sleepy]

G'day and welcome.
Yes 200tdi will fit - there a numerous threads here and on the internet.
Are you mechanically minded and do you have the time for all the work you mention?
The reason I ask is if you are planning on paying someone to do all this work then your Suzuki money pit will seem like a small bump in the road in comparison.
Even if you do all the work you mention to bring it up to Kimberly/Cape York worthy you will need to spend quite a few grand.

I would see if you can get the S2 running. As is. They aren't all that bad. If you get the brakes working well, decent tyres, springs and shockers and a nice running 2.25 and you have a lovely old landie. Yeah a little crude but effective and fairly easy to keep going.

Also all that money you spend doing it up is never recouped if you intend selling. Whereas a well sorted S2 will hold its value.

Save your money for the 90.

My 2 cents.

[JayBoRover]

Seems to me there's a big difference between a 90 and late 60's S2a. I'd say you'd want to be somewhat passionate about the S2a to go to the effort required to make it a good runner. With the alternative option being a 90 it suggests to me you're not that passionate about the S2a.

I've seen a gearbox overhaul kit for sale for $350, including all the likely bearings, seals, etc. I've just dismantled a donor gearbox and transferred the good bits into my S2a gearbox to revive it for a while. Cost $25 for the gasket kit and the donor gearbox came complete with a '64 S2a, so the gearbox is a small part of the useable parts I now have that cost me $400.

How about start pestering your uncle to sell it to someone, in Perth, passionate about having an 88" late 60's S2a to restore to original, preferably with a donor car ready to share parts from, (I'll try and think of someone;)), and then save for that 90?:angel::D

You want someone to come and have a look at it with you, just yell out.
Cheers
John B

[peterg1001]

I'm basically looking for a fourby to use as a daily runner and day tripper when i'm back in town (I work offshore), something that can tow a tinny to the beach, but also capable of getting me to Cape York or the Kimberley for a seasonal adventure, and then get me home.

A Series Land Rover was designed 60 years ago and built 50 years ago. I just rebuilt one from scratch, and its mechanical state is as good as the day it left the factory in 1961.

It develops 80bhp, and it's top speed is 85KPH on the freeway, and it uses close to 20L/100k around here (Blue Mountains) for weekend driving. At highway speeds, the noise is such that it's not possible to carry on a conversation with the other person in the cab.

There are very, very good reasons why Toyota wiped Land Rovers off the map in the 1970s. The FJ40 I used to drive would eat the Series for breakfast.*

A Series is a fun toy to have around, and I spent a happy 2 years and $20,000 doing the restoration, and now I can drive my toy around on the weekends.

If you really want a reliable Series, put aside a year and $10,000 to get a slow, noisy vehicle.

If you want to do a long trip, buy a Toyota - my choice would be a diesel 4Runner, but that's my whim.

Peter

* Up Lapstone Hill into the Mountains, the Series is back to third gear and 50kph. The FJ40 would go up in top gear at 90kph and not even notice it.

[SlowRide]

Before my Sierra I actually had an FJ40, but like you say it chewed 20L/100K, and I always found it extremely hot in the cab. But yes, it could do 100kph no worries. I bought my current Sierra from there as I noticed these light and nimble little toys could get to all the tricky places that stopped bigger 4x4s in their tracks. But, there's only so many times you can do 'The Powerline Tracks' before it gets a little boring.

Much like what you describe about your LR's though my Sierra has a top speed of 100kph (which can drop to 60 or 70 if i'm going uphill), you can't hear the stereo on the highway, it's bumpy, uncomfortable, and with my mods this lightweight still chews about 15L/100K (albeit it runs straight LPG)... but it's all charm, and none of this really phases me - it's the fact I can't fit all my gear in the back for a week away or tow a trailer has me looking.

If I was to go an older fourby again i'd want it EFI and diesel, basically so it would be uber cheap to run and could maintain 100kph on the blacktop. Apart from the specialist fabrication, I could do most of the work to get a 200tdi in an running (i'd prefer not to pass it off, as the creation is half the fun), and if I'm left stuck I have friends and family around me of all trades I could call in for a favour.

My proposed budget is actually around $15 - $20K, but for this i'd expect a practically rebuilt Series capable of 100kph at all times, and 25 - 30 MPG. If I could get this it'd be the last car i'd ever need to own, and i'd welcome it into the family.

I know, for that sort of money I could basically buy a 2 year old Grand Vitara or Subaru Forester which are squarely aimed at people like me - soft-roaders with all the mod cons for long trips - but these cars are all invisible on the road and have no charm. I notice in the Sierra everyone stops to wave and gets a giggle when it goes past, i'm sure a Series LR would be much the same... and I like that :)

[JayBoRover]

My proposed budget is actually around $15 - $20K, but for this i'd expect a practically rebuilt Series capable of 100kph at all times, and 25 - 30 MPG. If I could get this it'd be the last car i'd ever need to own, and i'd welcome it into the family.
I'd be very happy to stand corrected, but I do not believe that what you want is achievable. A restored (ie with a 2.25 engine, not a transplanted 202 Holden with high ratio diffs or Fairey overdrive) series LR capable of 100kph at all times? No chance. (Even a 200tdi without turbo I doubt would get the performance you're looking for fitted in a Series LR). Capable of 100kph occasionally maybe ... but up (decent) hills? No chance. Safely on corrugated dirt roads for touring? No chance. Then also returning 25 - 30 MPG. No chance. It sounds awfully like a D90 is what you really want, so maybe wait for a year and save, save, save:).
You may get close to your requirements with a modified Series 2a LR like mine - the Holden engine, high ratio diffs and running on LPG dual fuel. Even then I don't know whether I'd be able to tick all those boxes. I'm pretty sure going to a 200tdi in mine would be a performance step backwards - not that I'm not tempted by that.
Cheers
John B

[Blknight.aus]

your box tickings are somewhat unrealistic.

yes the tdi200 is more or less a drop in unit but with a turbo that will provide the power to hit all the check boxes you want to you will destroy the gearbox and driveline.

you've essentially picked all the far points of what you can simply convert a series to do

35MPG? yep, but not at 100
Disc brakes? no, not really but you can graft in other axles and suspension from other vehicles which is major engineering work

I do series box Rebuilds at about $300 for parts alone and thats assuming that the shafts, box, selectors and clusters are all ok. Tcase is about 1/2 that.

my best guess...

where you really want to be is in a late TDi300 Disco 1 you'll get into a reasonable example for about $8K and still have enough money to push at it to rebuild the donk, box and tcase + some upgrades.

if you're deadset on a series yes, you could get all of what you wanted into the vehicle but youd wind up on a hybrid and unless you really throw yourself into it and dont skimp on the $$ for the fab work you'd be looking at about 12-18 months to get it all done.

[SlowRide]

OK guys thanks for the feedback. I'll bumble around in my Sierra for another year until a D90 is an affordable option. I always fall in love when a series LR goes past... I guess a Defender is the next best thing, and it will tick all my pre-requisite boxes (and probably save me a few grey hairs in the process).

[digger]

or buy and keep a series whilst waiting for a d90?? :)

[Timj]

Hi Slowride,

The big problem is that most of the people who have given you advice here actually own and drive series vehicles. Me included. I love driving around in one of the ones I have, even over an air-conditioned D3 sometimes. But I think most of us don't have them for the reasons that you have stated, we put up with the lack of power up hills and the choppy ride from leaf springs despite the fact there are "better" vehicles out there. Many people over the years have done trips to The Cape and the Simpson in series Landrovers but I don't think anyone would claim that it is the most comfortable way to do it. I still would like to one day though :).

One of the points you mentioned is about fuel injecting them, well yes it can be done. There are quite a few who have done it with single throttle bodies from similar 4 cylinder cars. I am in the middle of a project to fuel inject one of mine using motorcycle throttle bodies (4 individual) but as yet have no clue if it will achieve what I want, which is just reliable hill climbing off road and a little better breathing on the highway with maybe a bit better economy. It's probably going to take me a couple of months to finish it and the cost is stupid really on a thirty year old car, but hey, I'm not planning on selling it.

So as Digger said, you could always buy a cheap one and see what you think. Most anything that breaks can be easily fixed, some parts cost a bit more, like gearboxes, but if you do the work yourself they aren't any worse than others.

They grow on you once you have one, and most people can't seem to stop at one :).

TimJ.