What's it worth

[gromit]

I know this is a difficult one and is very subjective but here goes.....

I've been offered a 4 cyl 1960 Series 2 109" ute.
Surface rust on chassis, rear crossmember good (but towing bracket welded onto it). Door tops excellent (needs new bailey channels but no rust), cab & interior good, door frames good, bulkhead excellent. The tub has one small tear in it that will have to be welded up and both sides have a gentle curve pushed in (almost as if cattle have been rubbing against it).
The grey paint has faded and the current owner has thoroughly jetwashed the inside & outside so it's very, very clean. Has been stored in a garage for the last 15 years.
Engine doesn't run but it did a few years ago.

I don't need it but like all Land Rover owners I have to have it because it's in such good condition for a 51 year old car.

I think the price the current owner is asking is fair but wondered what would be a reasonable price for a Series 2 in this condition.




Colin

[digger]

how long is a piece of string??

:)

I would think that the engine not currently running, the fact its been stationary for so long also means g/box drivetrain etc has been stationary and that isnt always good, all this would detract from its value.

As you said its a 51 year old car, its in good shape....once again its a price set by what you are willing to pay... I wouldn't think too much at all.. but whats doing the buying... your head or your heart? :) :)

[gromit]

how long is a piece of string??

:)

I would think that the engine not currently running, the fact its been stationary for so long also means g/box drivetrain etc has been stationary and that isnt always good, all this would detract from its value.

As you said its a 51 year old car, its in good shape....once again its a price set by what you are willing to pay... I wouldn't think too much at all.. but whats doing the buying... your head or your heart? :) :)

All the above has already gone through my mind.
Do I need another Land Rover ? No. Do I need a 109" ute ? No. Do I have somewhere to store it ? No. Do I want to buy it ? Yes.

A few years ago I found my Series 1 for $2000 which seemed a lot at the time. Replaced most of the braking system, replaced a wheel bearing and a few seals, new bushes in the springs, overhauled the motor, threw on some new tyres and drove it to Cooma & back.

I just wondered what would be a fair price for this Series 2 but as you say it's a very personal decision and not based on it's real 'market' value.

Colin

[peterg1001]

I tried to sell a similar vehicle on ebay recently for $950, and didn't get a bid.

I eventually sold it for $750.

I would think the one you describe should be somewhere around that price.

Peter

[newhue]

gromit, I was hoping to buy a Series 2 109 recently but the deal just went quite for some reason. The seller wanted $1200 which I was happy or stupid enough to pay. It had been in a shed for 15 years and looked reasonable from the photo. I had no other detail about it but was trying to ascertain if it was a true series 2 109.
If you turn out to be not keen, please please please put my name into the hat. They are my true love in the landy stable.

[Warb]

The price is what you want to pay and what the owner will take.

I've recently purchased a reasonable condition 1959 S2 88" for $500 -the wiring is bodged, the rear chassis xmember has some rot (a welded on tow bracket created a moisture trap) and a couple of other minor issues, but otherwise very straight.

The same money got a 1968 88" with a Holden motor and overdrive, also very straight and an easy restoration to rego standard.

On the other hand, a guy in town is asking $2500 for a Series 2A 109" - at that price I haven't even bothered looking, and neither has anybody else!

I was contacted about what I suspect from the description to be a late 2A or possibly a 3 (with a winch, I'm told), apparently in very good condition and the owner "wants" $1000 but has already said he'll take $800 at a push.

I have found that there a a large number of old Land Rovers lying in barns and paddocks. Some of their owners think they're worth a fortune, some can be educated to realise they're not (some can't!) and some people just want to be rid of them - I bought a S1 80", S1 86" and S2 88" Command and Recon (admittedly all in poor condition) all 3 for $400, just to prevent them being crushed.

[gromit]

gromit, I was hoping to buy a Series 2 109 recently but the deal just went quite for some reason. The seller wanted $1200 which I was happy or stupid enough to pay. It had been in a shed for 15 years and looked reasonable from the photo. I had no other detail about it but was trying to ascertain if it was a true series 2 109.
If you turn out to be not keen, please please please put my name into the hat. They are my true love in the landy stable.

Jason,

This one is unmolested (as in very original). It would be tempting to restore the chassis & running gear and leave the bodywork as-is.
Checked the chassis number and it's a 1960 CKD

Price is subjective and as people have stated based on what the seller feels is the market value and what you as the buyer feel comfortable paying. As we all know, restoration, or even just getting a Land Rover back on the road, is a labour of love and you don't get back what you outlay.
My only concern with this one is that it hasn't been run for some years. The seller is a genuine guy and he claims it ran OK and didn't smoke when he got it 15 years ago.

Anyway, I collect it in a couple of days


Colin

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Colin

Land Rover engines, even ones that havent run for years are remarkable things. They will often start will very little assistance.

It is worthwhile taking a little time with an engine that hasn't run for years. The fuel in the tank is usually a problem. Drain that out and put in some fresh stuff.

Then see if they turn over with the crank handle and maybe even putting a drop of penetrating oil in each cylinder and turning it over without the spark plugs in place, then putting the plugs back in and the leads on and a cap of petrol down the carby throat and see if it will start and run.

Diana

[Warb]

Diana,

You have more faith in Land Rovers than I do!

I'd be checking the oil and water, making sure the electrics weren't going to start a fire (I've actually seen that happen, see below), the fuel hoses weren't perished and a whole bunch of things before I even put a good battery in a vehicle that had been left in a barn for years.

I watched a barn recovered vehicle (not a Land Rover) burst in to flames because the float valve was stuck open causing petrol to flood out of the carby. Unfortunately the engine earth strap had decayed and broken, and the engine was earthing largely through the accelerator cable which was glowing red hot as the petrol from the carby ran over it, though I suspect the petrol actually ignited when it hit the start motor.

[gromit]

Colin

Land Rover engines, even ones that havent run for years are remarkable things. They will often start will very little assistance.

It is worthwhile taking a little time with an engine that hasn't run for years. The fuel in the tank is usually a problem. Drain that out and put in some fresh stuff.

Then see if they turn over with the crank handle and maybe even putting a drop of penetrating oil in each cylinder and turning it over without the spark plugs in place, then putting the plugs back in and the leads on and a cap of petrol down the carby throat and see if it will start and run.

Diana

Thanks Diana,

I've rescued many old cars (and motorbikes) over the years that have stood for ages so I'm well versed in bringing them back to life.
This one has been worked on recently because the seller has had someone trying to get it started. They think the timing is out but it was running when it was purchased so it's more likely the fuel is 'off' or the enthusiastic jet-washing has dislodged a wire.
Oil and coolant has recently been changed.

I'm hoping it's not like my FFR which didn't run (despite the owner trying to start it). The distributor clamp was missing a bolt, the lead from the coil had failed the coil had also failed when I finally got it running the thermostat housing leaked (stripped threads) and it smoked badly (worn rings). It can't be that bad.....can it ?

The bigger worry is that exposed gears in axles, gearbox & transfer box have rusted along with the cam, crank etc. in the engine. Spoke with the current owner last night and he confirmed it hadn't run for 15 years but it has been cranked over and moved around a few times.

Tyres might need changing, they look OK but the treads have been re-cut because it was only ever gong to be used on the owners property.


Colin

[JayBoRover]

I recently had the opportunity (gggrrrr) to dismantle the gearbox in my parts donor '64 S2a. I removed the drain plug to find an cascade of water ... followed by a cup of oil. When I continued to actually dismantle the box I was surprised to find the internals in mostly good condition. I think there were two or three gear teeth with a little surface rust and that was about it.

With the engine I have got as far as removing the plugs and fining that the engine would turn over by rotating the fan blades by hand. I haven't got as far as trying to actually fire it into life, but I suspect it won't take too much, despite looking pretty sad.

When I bought the car the previous owner told me it had been sitting on a farm for 12 years before he bought it and then he'd had it sitting for a further 4 years. I'm looking forward to giving it a go one day, but I think it'll get taken apart and inspected beforehand.
Best of luck with it.
Cheers
John B

[gromit]

I recently had the opportunity (gggrrrr) to dismantle the gearbox in my parts donor '64 S2a. I removed the drain plug to find an cascade of water ... followed by a cup of oil. When I continued to actually dismantle the box I was surprised to find the internals in mostly good condition. I think there were two or three gear teeth with a little surface rust and that was about it.

With the engine I have got as far as removing the plugs and fining that the engine would turn over by rotating the fan blades by hand. I haven't got as far as trying to actually fire it into life, but I suspect it won't take too much, despite looking pretty sad.

When I bought the car the previous owner told me it had been sitting on a farm for 12 years before he bought it and then he'd had it sitting for a further 4 years. I'm looking forward to giving it a go one day, but I think it'll get taken apart and inspected beforehand.
Best of luck with it.
Cheers
John B


Reminds me of a Triumph Tiger 90 I had in the UK. Rode it home after buying it and decided to check oil levels, gearbox had no oil but about a pint of water instead. The filler plug was on top of the gearbox where water could gather and it was loose letting water in, I can only assume that the previous owner drained the box and forgot to refill it.
Took the end covers off the box and there wasn't a speck of rust inside but everything was covered with a grey slippery coating.... someone had used MolySlip in the past.
Ran that bike for a number of years with no gearbox problems.

Because this Series 2 has been garaged for the last 15 years I'm hoping the engine/gearbox/axle internals haven't seen too much water from condensation.....

Colin

[newhue]

any pics yet Gromit?

[gromit]

I was busy at the weekend collecting a Series 3 diesel (parts car) so I haven't collected it yet. I might try and leave a deposit and collect in a week or so because I'm running out of room on the driveway......

Colin

[gromit]

Went for a final look and to haggle over the price.
Car turns over OK but there are wiring issues. There is an alternator fitted but the original regulator box is still wired in and there was a heavy lead with a 'jump lead' clamp on the end. Maybe start the car on the battery and then clip the alternator into the circuit ??.
I'll disconnect most of the wiring when I get it home on Sunday and hot wire it.

The rear tray needs some work, tailgate probably past saving, a couple of corner cappings have the hood stick mounts missing or fractured. It has a Series 1 towing bracket welded to the bottom of the rear crossmember so I'll have to work out what to do about that.

I'll post some pictures once I get it....

Colin

[gromit]

Finally collected the 109 last night, pictures to follow once I work out how to post them (used to 'attach' pics but now have too many attachments).

Rented a 14' trailer to get it home last night, went to load it on and found the rear wheels only just got on the deck.....turned out it's a 12' trailer they hire out as a 14' !! I'll speak to the hire mob later this morning.
Spotted a few more items I need to replace but priority is to get it running so I can move it off the driveway. Problem is I head off overseas this weekend for a week on business so it may have to wait a while.....

One thing I forgot to mention when I started this thread.....it came with a rear PTO and the belt drive unit :)

Pictures now added to 'Gallery'


Colin