LR and Gull BioDiesel

[gavinwibrow]

I'm sure this has been asked before, but as a newbie, I'm still finding my way around. I've just brought my newly purchased MY04 D2 TD5 auto back from Victoria. The manual says No Biodiesel. Does anyone in the west use the Gull up to 20% Bio blend, or is it a NO NO? I've used Gull on my previous 2 TD diesels (Pajero 2.5 and Daihatsu 2.8) with good results. I know that bio cleans out the tank well and I might need new filters if I can use it on the D2!
Thanks in anticipation.

[superquag]

LR has big problems in France.... Understand that all diesel fuel is legislated to contain 5% of 'biodiesel'. Observed in the breach more than in fact.

I used to make my own bio... - when it was'nt "illegal" to do so. Have run it in Mazda 2.0 litre turbo as well as my '89 2.5 Turbo Paj. with NO damage or unexpected embarrasment.

But I DID have a filter totally block when using 100% bio purchsed from the WA supplier to Gull.... In simple terms, these folk choose to wash the finished bioD by means of a Magic Powder, which is then filtered out.

It was'nt...:(

Along with 99.9999% of all home-brewers who washed, I used water to do the final wash. More fiddling, but safer result.

You are correct, the bio will tend to dissolve the crud and stuff that petro-diesel won't touch, and worst - case is a blocked fuel filter.

Bio can be iffy in Alpine conditions.... but fine in most of WA coastal.

Diesels - in my limited experience - can be sensitive to fuel quality, so the 'other' % of GULL's biodiesel would have more impact than the small % of 'bio'. Remember, the wording on the Gull literature does not warrant a minimum amount of bio, only an "Up to xx%"

This is the place you need to visit for 'everything' to do with Biodiesel.

Forums (http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=447609751)

And this one gives a brief explanation of the incompatibility issue for certain manufacturers.

SaveBiodiesel.org (http://savebiodiesel.com/)

And no, I don't make the stuff anymore...:eek: , mainly 'cos the cars I drive are either 100% LPG or from the Dark Side. (Petrol RRC)
Second Son has purloined the Paj...no longer my worry to fill the tank, though I still use it when he's not looking...:twisted:

James in Gosnells

'95 RRC Vogue SE

PS, The company concerned did'nt hesitate to replace the half-used drum with a full one of perfect bio. Lots of genuine apologies too!
My point is that the process used back then *could* allow for something to go seriously pear-shaped. Water-washing is less dangerous or embarrasing when a batch slips through like this.

[LandyAndy]

Enjoy the new beast.
I have never put Bio in our pair of TD5s and never will.
Unit injectors are $1000 or so each(new),nobody rebuilds them.
Not worth the risk in my case.
How much do you save on a tankfull,$9.00 or less;);););)
Andrew

[superquag]

... Which is another reason I did'nt take up the offer (for $8k) of a superb Disco II diesel. It traded-in at around $12k....
At $5,000 for a set of disposable injectors, I would'nt even drive it with any diesel that did'nt meet or exceed British Pharmocopoeia - quality.

Seriously, its the quality of commercial bio that can be problematical, and this includes the feedstock. Palm oil is abundant, makes nice bio... but is the first to gell / thicken in cold to mild conditions, whereas sunflower oil is fine.

In Germany ( years ago..) Biodiesel bowsers had to be prominantly placarded if the tanks contained ANY biodiesel made with ANY amount of palm oil...

Paradoxically, most home-brewers were (still are?) fanatical about getting things 101%. - Like filtering down to 2 micron smaller on a good day, washing properly, drying, and did I mention filtering out any and everything ?

I've been out of bioD for 5 years now, so my info is out of date. However, there were suspicions that the extremely high pressures of the (then) newest Common-Rail diesels may cause "interesting results" in 100% bioD.

Bottom line on BioD, is how well you sleep at night, IF you have the lightest doubt, then I'd suggest you don't use it, and at the same time be Very fussy about your petro-diesel

.I've used some truly abominable brews in my cars (for research purposes) and even run the Paj on straight canola for several hours at a time. - All fuel was properly filtered for particles...

Biodiesel is well established in Europe, especially Germany. Therefore it must be Mercedes owners buying the stuff, - seeing as VW and LR owners faithfully follow their handbooks...

Cynical James in Gosnells.

[LandyAndy]

Cynical James.
You should have grabbed that $8000 D2.
They are a bloody good vehicle for the money,my bargain D2 cost me $15000 6 years or so ago.Its a spare vehicle as I have a works ute,I love getting out in it,with a few mods they fly,mine is chipped,big intercooler and straight thru exhaust.Can win traffic light GPs in it.NO I DONT,I do love driving it.
Not fussed too much in our TD5 Defender Extreme,another bargain,$12000.Just doesnt match the D2:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
Mrs likes it,its HER ride.
Andrew

[superquag]

Six of one, half a dozen of the other... shrt story is that it was a Daughter's car, which came home for Dad to fix whenever it packed up/broke down. Around every 3 months. Last one was the head. Again. Then onto its 3rd lump of metal and 5th or 6th visit to the Mechanic.

Yes, it drove nicely, though I found the steering wheel just a tad too close, and there was no way to get it further away.

Agreed, the Disco was fantastic value, but I could NOT face that sort of expensive unreliability. Wife made uncomplimentary remarks about the wheel as well..... so I passed it up.

Actually, it was adequate at lower RPM, and at 90 or so km/h when the torque converter locked up it felt like a JATO booster! Gave me a fright the first few times :eek:

I had the loan of it for a week, and it was indeed Very Nice to drive. Think I mentioned that, but credit where its due.
Another week and I probably would have gotten used to the wheel.
Or loathed it.

This was the time that I became convinced that a LR chassis under a better-designed / built, reliable, ergonomically better IMHO, back-windows-wind-right-down Gen II Pajero GLX body would be the best of all worlds.:p

[BMKal]

Have just finished reading a letter to the editor in the latest Overlander where a Pajero owner points out that you can't open the rear door of the latest Pajeros if you have anything connected to the towbar because of the new "safer" lowered position of the spare tyre. Apparently Bits'r'missin offer an optional "spare tyre lift kit" for $150 for those Pajero owners who actually want to tow something.

Think I'll stick with the Landrover body styling thanks. At least I can open my rear door to get to the fridge without disconnecting the trailer. :p

Another feature of these new Pajero's is that you have to undo two bolts on the inside of the rear door to get the spare tyre off the vehicle when you need it. Great ..... you've got a flat tyre on a wagon with a cargo barrier inside and a caravan connected to the back of it. Unhook the caravan and drive forward so that you can get the back door open so that you can get the spare tyre off the back of the vehicle.

On the original topic - I have never and will never use Bio fuel in the Disco (and probably not in anything else either). Have heard way too many bad stories.

On top of that - I won't go near a Gull service station for any fuel. Again - too many bad stories and personal experience. The wife used to fuel her car up at the Gull around the corner from us in Kalgoorlie, and the vehicle would often run like a hairy dog. I checked the fuel a couple of times and found clear evidence of water in it. Since changing away from Gull, have never experienced similar problems.

The local place that services lawnmowers / chainsaws etc is very specific in telling their customers not to use Gull fuel in small petrol engines (2 stroke or 4 stroke) as they have been able to trace far too many problems back to Gull fuel.

[superquag]

AS you pointed out, the quality of the basic fuel makes a big differance, and the interesting bit is the petrol quality of your local Gull(s) is called into question as well. Reckon it explains a lot...

I've had no issues with Gull (when I was still buying fuel) and I reckon choosing a high-turnover servo did the trick. Biodiesel is very sensitive to oxidation and bug-growth, so storage etc is of paramount importance.

Here's a link to a UK site, with lots of data on standards etc.

Biodiesel standards / specification (http://www.biofuelsystems.com/biodiesel/specification.htm)

AFAIK, there's only one brewer of BioD in WA, and they don't sell to the public anymore, it all goes to .....

[discotwinturbo]

I have used b20 in my patrol for 7 years.
When I put the second long range tank in the Arb guy asked what fuel I was using as he had never seen a tank that clean before. It was spotless with no algae growth like regular diesel.
Side by side with mates patrol of exactly the same vintage....mine was much quieter. Fuel economy the same. I had a slightly different colour exhaust when cold.
Originally went to it due to cetane being 50 ( recommended by Nissan to have a cetane of 50), as regular diesel in wa was only 45.

D4 arrives tomorrow....think I will go with BP ultimate until I hear of a D4 owner using b20 as their seems to be so many lr owners against it.

[superquag]

You have'nt always been using B20 if you've been buying GULL. Re-check the literature they have...it only warrants 'up to' 20% (Max, not minimum %)

Personally, if I was running a D4, I'd stay away from commercial "BioD" but would - maybe - make my own in small batches, and treat it as a fuel additive rather than a significant percentage. Say, around 3 to 10%.

Not that big business can be trusted either, - anyone remember that little embarrasment about AVGAS some years ago? - Contamination or something "unknown" in the fuel, grounded more than a few private & commercial aircraft. Company concerned did'nt seem to know what exactly the problem was...

Enjoy your D4 :D

[enery8]

I'm sure this has been asked before, but as a newbie, I'm still finding my way around. I've just brought my newly purchased MY04 D2 TD5 auto back from Victoria. The manual says No Biodiesel. Does anyone in the west use the Gull up to 20% Bio blend, or is it a NO NO? I've used Gull on my previous 2 TD diesels (Pajero 2.5 and Daihatsu 2.8) with good results. I know that bio cleans out the tank well and I might need new filters if I can use it on the D2!
Thanks in anticipation.

Here in the UK (were home made Biodiesel is in general use) there seems to be a lot of debate about using it in a TD5. Works great in my P38 RR. Many of the detractors of bio say you should never use it in a TD5 but there are also those who claim to be using it in their TD5 Discos. I personally would not use it in a TD5 which is why I bought my P38.