$40k for an as is unreg '00 Defender ex army. Too much?

[pfillery]

Saw one today, sitting at a dealer on a main road, stuck out like the proverbial dogs balls amongst all the jap and euro white cars.....2000 model, ex army, 10 seat hardtop, either 70,000 odd km or 700,000 odd km (couldn't quite see if the digital odometer only has 5 digits or 6 displaying). Missing a side cover where the battery would go, condition report showing about $500 worth of work needing doing, few odd bits of damage and no spare tyre. Went in to ask how much and was told 40 grand plus any rego and RWC costs. I don't know a lot but people talk about the latest release ones from the army, presumably later than this one, selling in the 30's and even similar ones around 29-30.

Seems a little excessive to me but I could be wrong.

[isuzutoo-eh]

That'll be 70,000km, and that missing battery box cover isn't, it's for the jerry can and doesn't have a cover on it AFAIK.
These sold for sub $30k at auction, for the '00 models closer to $20k, and have been seen in car yards for up to $50k. It is indeed from the latest army auction.

[CJT]

This wouldnt happen tobe on Gympie Road at all??

Just asking as I drove past a car yard there with something similar out the front, never stopped to look though.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...
...These sold for sub $30k at auction, for the '00 models closer to $20k, and have been seen in car yards for up to $50k. It is indeed from the latest army auction. the fall of hammer may have been sub 26K for the 2000 models and sub 30K for the 2003 models (remember the reserve on most of these auctions was 22-24K) but after having to pay the bidding fees, buyers premium and GST, the winning bidder wouldn't have got them out the Manheim-Fowles gate for less than about 25K-28K for the 2000 models and 25K-34K for the 2003 models.

The 2003 models have p38a rear diffs and air cond while the 2000 models have no air con but a stronger Salisbury rear diff.

There's 3 in a yard at Banksia in Sydney for $36K - $40K and a 2000 model, 60,000 KMS on the clock with 11 1/2 mths Rego private sale in Land Cove Sydney for $29K.

Just a note for the uninformed, these are the TD5s and the next army Land Rovers to be released will all be 1987-1992 4 speed gearbox Perentie models.

[pfillery]

This wouldnt happen tobe on Gympie Road at all??

Just asking as I drove past a car yard there with something similar out the front, never stopped to look though.


Thats the one. Stands out doesn't it?

[Blknight.aus]

Saw one today, sitting at a dealer on a main road, stuck out like the proverbial dogs balls amongst all the jap and euro white cars.....2000 model, ex army, 10 seat hardtop, either 70,000 odd km or 700,000 odd km (couldn't quite see if the digital odometer only has 5 digits or 6 displaying). Missing a side cover where the battery would go, condition report showing about $500 worth of work needing doing, few odd bits of damage and no spare tyre. Went in to ask how much and was told 40 grand plus any rego and RWC costs. I don't know a lot but people talk about the latest release ones from the army, presumably later than this one, selling in the 30's and even similar ones around 29-30.

Seems a little excessive to me but I could be wrong.

yep, its worth maybe 20 on a really good day.

[Bigbjorn]

yep, its worth maybe 20 on a really good day.

I'm with Dave on this. $20,000 retail on a really,really, good day if you find a wood duck. Registered and everything done and everything missing supplied. And I am being generous. My thinking is $10,000-$15,000 retail allowing some fat for a trade-in.

These jiggers are 11 years old. If they were a Japorea econo box they would be selling in the Trading Post at $1,000 as is. Falcodores would fetch $3,000-$4,000 if good ones. Magnas for "best offer".

[Mick_Marsh]

Just to be unhelpful, If you're prepared to pay $10k, it's expensive. But, if you're prepared to pay $100k, what a bargain.

Have a look on carsales. Look at the prices for a similar vehicle and take off, say 20% (because people who advertise on carsales are dreaming. I ought to know. I have a car on there.) This may give you a guide as to what a fair price for a Td5 Defender is.

Also, last I looked, Maheim still had a few more to be auctioned. I suspect the will be coming out in dribs and drabs to keep the prices up.

I was interested in one a few months back but I think it will wait for the Perennties.

If you do buy it, I will be polite and congratulate you. I've bought what some describe as expensive piles of rubbish but to me they're treasures.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Have to agree with you Mick

We have heard the comments what people thought the TD5 should be worth, and I thought $17K, but where is someone going to get a 40K to 100K on the speedo Defender without the puma engine. Also on the remaining stock, all up according to REMLR there were only about 50 of the TD5 and most of them have already been auctioned.

The reality is Manheims set the reserve price and those that were passed in not making the reserve were either sold to the highest bidder at the reserve price after the sale or sold at subsequent auctions and none of the purchasers would have spent much less than $25K.

People who do now buy these vehicles are likely to turn up on this forum and it won't be a very pleasant experience if all of us are telling them that their vehicle is worth only half of what they paid.

So come on guys, lets get over the what they're worth idea and just accept that they are on the market at something above $29K.

Diana

BTW, while I am listed in the AULRO markets as a contact for a vehicle currently on the market, I have no other interest other than arranging for a potential buyer and willing seller (who can afford to either keep the vehicle or sell it) to make a deal.

[THE BOOGER]

What they sold for at auction is now the wholesale price even with 50%markup to cover expenses and warranty these will now be selling for over $35 thou so most of use were wrong with our guess as to what they will sell for:(
so its back to waiting for the 110,s to come up:D

[Bigbjorn]

I just had a look on CarPoint and their valuation for a 2000 Defender 110 4dr. wagon 5sp. 2.4DTD is:-

private sale $10,100-$12,600
trade in $6,200- $8,700
RRP when new- $38,300

I think they are a bit conservative but not to the point of being 50% undervalued.

And IMHO anyone who wants to pay more than new price for an 11 years old Land Rover is a real wood duck.

[CJT]

Just did a quick search on carsales.com and it showed nine ex army defenders for sale ranging from $30,000 to $50,000.

The one for $50,000 is a 2004 model with 43,000km on the clock, winch and mount etc and is registered in Qld.

I am not too sure if I would pay that much however I do not think that around $30 - $35,000 is unreasonable. You can not find a standard 2002 defender with km's that low, the closest I saw was a 2001 with 79,000 for $25,000, add onto that another $2,000 - $3,500 for the salisbury rear diff etc and the price seems pretty reasonable.

(Not entirely sure on the cost a salisbury rear diff, based the figure on the one suplied by Rovertracks in the US, $3,300 USD)

[jerryd]

I was told by another dealer, that the dealer selling the $50k ex army defender paid $32k for it :)

[CJT]

I just had a look on CarPoint and their valuation for a 2000 Defender 110 4dr. wagon 5sp. 2.4DTD is:-

private sale $10,100-$12,600
trade in $6,200- $8,700
RRP when new- $38,300

I think they are a bit conservative but not to the point of being 50% undervalued.

And IMH anyone who wants to pay more than new price for an 11 years old Land Rover is a real wood duck.

This is from Redbook for a 2002 Defender 110;

Private price guide $15,300 - $18,100
Trade in price guide $10,200 - $13,000
Average Km 140,000 - 230,000
So the average Defender you would pay that money for has on average between 3 - 6 times the mileage as some of the ex-army ones out there.

[Sleepy]

They are somewhat unique. Apart from the fact that they are ex-army, the 2 door wagons were not sold here in Td5 form (other than to the army)

Dealers always leave themselves "room to move". So when you drive in your rusty old FJ60 and want 10 grand as a trade in. They dont have to dissapoint you too much.:p

With all the excitment surrounding this release (Newspapers, TV, Internet) its worth testing the market. Somewhat of an ambet claim? If he gets the cash, good on 'im.

[isuzurover]

This is from Redbook for a 2002 Defender 110;

Private price guide $15,300 - $18,100
Trade in price guide $10,200 - $13,000
Average Km 140,000 - 230,000
So the average Defender you would pay that money for has on average between 3 - 6 times the mileage as some of the ex-army ones out there.

Personally I would prefer 140k km with one careful owner vs 40k km at the hands of a cast of thousands (of teenagers) and one or two dodgy grease monkeys ;) . :wasntme:

At the end of the day, they are worth is someone would be willing to pay.
For me, that would be very little (I would prefer a perentie), while for others, that may be $50k+ORC (or more).

[pfillery]

As one of those uninformed, why is the army selling 2000 models now but are going to release the 87-92 models later - after that long in service they would be clapped out presumably? and also worth a lot less?


the fall of hammer may have been sub 26K for the 2000 models and sub 30K for the 2003 models (remember the reserve on most of these auctions was 22-24K) but after having to pay the bidding fees, buyers premium and GST, the winning bidder wouldn't have got them out the Manheim-Fowles gate for less than about 25K-28K for the 2000 models and 25K-34K for the 2003 models.

The 2003 models have p38a rear diffs and air cond while the 2000 models have no air con but a stronger Salisbury rear diff.

There's 3 in a yard at Banksia in Sydney for $36K - $40K and a 2000 model, 60,000 KMS on the clock with 11 1/2 mths Rego private sale in Land Cove Sydney for $29K.

Just a note for the uninformed, these are the TD5s and the next army Land Rovers to be released will all be 1987-1992 4 speed gearbox Perentie models.

[Marshall]

As one of those uninformed, why is the army selling 2000 models now but are going to release the 87-92 models later - after that long in service they would be clapped out presumably? and also worth a lot less?

I think it has something to do with priorities. Rear echelon don't need the latest and greatest as quickly, where we should support the front line units to the max where possible, and this means giving the front line units the new stuff sooner rather than later. Others can wait.

[isuzutoo-eh]

As one of those uninformed, why is the army selling 2000 models now but are going to release the 87-92 models later - after that long in service they would be clapped out presumably? and also worth a lot less?

Parts commonality. Because there were 50 TD5s, and a few thousand Isuzu powered vehicles. It is cheaper to keep parts for 2000+ identical vehicles than it is for 50 of these and 1950 of those. Cannibalisation for parts is also easier when you have a significant number of donor vehicles.

Also, the One Tens and Perenties have been remanufactured, some more than once, so aren't as elderly as their age implies.

[THE BOOGER]

Yeh the 110,s were being rebuilt from the chassis up by tenix untill last year so they should last a while when sold off :)

[pfillery]

What are the thoughts of what the 110s and perenties are likely to sell for when auctioned off? More or less than the deefers?

I'd say the one I saw was more than likely bought by someone then traded in to the dealer on a newer vehicle - they are a Volkswagen dealership selling new cars with a lot of traded in "as traded" type cars, not the type to be going to auctions and buying these sorts of things wholesale. Obviously I can't be sure of that but that is logically the assumption to be made.

[isuzurover]

What are the thoughts of what the 110s and perenties are likely to sell for when auctioned off? More or less than the deefers?

I'd say the one I saw was more than likely bought by someone then traded in to the dealer on a newer vehicle - they are a Volkswagen dealership selling new cars with a lot of traded in "as traded" type cars, not the type to be going to auctions and buying these sorts of things wholesale. Obviously I can't be sure of that but that is logically the assumption to be made.

I doubt someone would buy a defender, then trade it in on a new VW before even registering it.

As for what perenties will sell for - who knows. On the basis of these auctions, I would guess the reserve would be ~$10k.

[hook]

Defender TD5 Parts.

The Army didn't hold parts or service the TD5 Defenders.

When I had one in Bendigo, :angel: we took it the the LR stealer for it's service and any work.

AND yes, no cover for the jerry can space, only a strap.

Army roof rack, Tools on bonnet, mounted on alloy tread, pintal hook, NATO plug, sliding rear windows and seat belts, with side facing seats. (eg 110)

[flagg]

I'm glad they cost more, they are an important part of our history. Costing more means people see greater value in them and are more likely to look after them, less likely to Chase pigs around until they are stuffed and leave them in a paddock to Rot.

[Sprint]

they are a Volkswagen dealership selling new cars with a lot of traded in "as traded" type cars, not the type to be going to auctions and buying these sorts of things wholesale. Obviously I can't be sure of that but that is logically the assumption to be made.

Any used car yard, regardless of whether its a dedicated used car yard or one thats attached to a new car franchise wont exist purely on selling cars that get traded in, a good portion of thier stock will be bought in from wholesalers and auctions, its not the cheapest way of doing business, but a yard needs stock to be able to do business......


I'm glad they cost more, they are an important part of our history. Costing more means people see greater value in them and are more likely to look after them, less likely to Chase pigs around until they are stuffed and leave them in a paddock to Rot.

The flip side of that is that with the high cost, the chances of an enthusiast buying one decreases, and the chances of a cashed up wannabe from suburbia buying one to be his wifes latest toorakistan tractor skyrockets.....

[flagg]

Any used car yard, regardless of whether its a dedicated used car yard or one thats attached to a new car franchise wont exist purely on selling cars that get traded in, a good portion of thier stock will be bought in from wholesalers and auctions, its not the cheapest way of doing business, but a yard needs stock to be able to do business......

The flip side of that is that with the high cost, the chances of an enthusiast buying one decreases, and the chances of a cashed up wannabe from suburbia buying one to be his wifes latest toorakistan tractor skyrockets.....

True, but I cant imagine too many of them being happy with a smelly two door deefer with no a/c !

[UncleHo]

G'day Folks :)

The 4 only 6/2004 TD5 8 seat Defenders from the Manhiem Auctions of Wed 12 October were at the fall of the hammer:

LOT 146= ARN 205-301 $29,250 sold to a private owner Qld 29,160klm

LOT 147=ARN 205-305 $27,500 sold to ? 31,592klm

LOT 148=ARN 205-303 $27,500 sold to ? 37,197klm

LOT 149=ARN 205-302 $26,000 sold to ? 37,693klm


They then would then have been subject to:$28 buyers security fee,7.7%(incl GST) buyer admin fee for over $5000 value,handling fee of $33 for over $201. :)

straight from the manhiems booklet.


cheers

[Lotz-A-Landies]

G'day Folks :)

The 4 only 6/2004 TD5 8 seat Defenders from the Manhiem Auctions of Wed 12 October were at the fall of the hammer:

LOT 146= ARN 205-301 $29,250 sold to a private owner Qld 29,160klm ($31,563.25)

LOT 147=ARN 205-305 $27,500 sold to ? 31,592klm($29,140.00)

LOT 148=ARN 205-303 $27,500 sold to ? 37,197klm($29,140.00)

LOT 149=ARN 205-302 $26,000 sold to ? 37,693klm($28,063.00)

They then would then have been subject to:$28 buyers security fee,7.7%(incl GST) buyer admin fee for over $5000 value,handling fee of $33 for over $201. :)

straight from the manhiems booklet.
cheersDrive out gate price in RED above.

[UncleHo]

So you can see there is a slight mark up :wasntme:

[Sprint]

True, but I cant imagine too many of them being happy with a smelly two door deefer with no a/c !

When I was in the game, if either myself or my boss had thought we could make a lazy $10k from a car in a reasonable timeframe, we wouldve done it.

Fact is, there is a market for the later model ex mil deefers, and there are people who will be dumb enough to pay the prices the dealers are asking

[UncleHo]

Yes, that's what the Used Car game is,but, anyone can bid at the auctions you just have to have access to the money up front, so pre-arranged finance/bank cheque would be the go, so then you would know your limit, and that's it, fall of hammer + 20% :)