How to use a roundabout.....

[spudfan]

Made by a driving instructor over here. Any benefit to you over there?
The Roundabout Song - YouTube

[p38arover]

Yes! Most people don't seem to know the rules of the roundabout.

[rick130]

What's a roundabout ?

With a Defender....


naa, I won't go there, The Pedestrian Council and anti 4WD brigade would use it as ammo :(

[slug_burner]

I think we don't hold the roundabout in such mistical esteem as what the europeans do.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/139.jpg
taken from The Magic Roundabout - Swindon's white knuckle ride! SwindonWeb guide (http://www.swindonweb.com/index.asp'm=8&s=115&ss=289)

The roundabout just does not work for the countries in red and streets where there is insufficient space to raise the centre of the roundabout to force people to drive around it. In the countries in red you have to give way to people coming onto the roundabout. Can only end in tears as the roundabout chokes to a stop.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/140.jpg

[JDNSW]

I think we don't hold the roundabout in such mistical esteem as what the europeans do.

Maybe not quite - but have a look at the intersection of Hull Rd, Lincoln Rd, Manchester Rd and Cambridge Rd in Croydon in Melbourne!

Where this roundabout song would seem to fall short for Australia (apart from the slightly hard to understand accent), is that, for example, in NSW many roundabouts have marked lanes that must be adhered to depending on whether you are exiting at various positions, and these are different at different locations - for example, some allow straight ahead from left and/or right lanes, some allow straight ahead only from the left or right lane, mandating turns from the other lane, plus other varuiations. I can think of examples of all possible combinations for two lane approaches just in my local area! The other difference I have noted is that Victoria does not require a left turn signal when exiting, where NSW does. Don't know about other states!

John

[Discovery-94]

In the countries in red you have to give way to people coming onto the roundabout. Can only end in tears as the roundabout chokes to a stop.


....not entirely true. In many of the "red countries" (...that could be misunderstood...I mean the red COLOURED ones!) vehicles entering give way to vehicles in the roundabout (for example Germany, Spain, Poland, Switzerland)

:angel:

[Tank]

I think we don't hold the roundabout in such mistical esteem as what the europeans do.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/139.jpg
taken from The Magic Roundabout - Swindon's white knuckle ride! SwindonWeb guide (http://www.swindonweb.com/index.asp'm=8&s=115&ss=289)

The roundabout just does not work for the countries in red and streets where there is insufficient space to raise the centre of the roundabout to force people to drive around it. In the countries in red you have to give way to people coming onto the roundabout. Can only end in tears as the roundabout chokes to a stop.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/140.jpg
So who do you give way to in Australia, I know who but do you? Regards Frank.

[Sprint]

one lane roundabouts i'm fine with..... i get to the big smoke, hit one with 2 lanes, freak out, shut my eyes, hope for the best and pray that the people will see the 'bar, spotties, aerials and all the rest of the crap and figure it out.....

[Hall]

Maybe not quite - but have a look at the intersection of Hull Rd, Lincoln Rd, Manchester Rd and Cambridge Rd in Croydon in Melbourne! Now that there`s a round about that will test you. Especially at peak hour. :)
Cheers Hall

[THE BOOGER]

So who do you give way to in Australia, I know who but do you? Regards Frank.

I only give way to people already on the round about or on the right if they are going faster than me:D

[sheerluck]

So who do you give way to in Australia, I know who but do you? Regards Frank.

I give way to those in a larger vehicle, who are likely to do more damage to me than I would do to them.:p

Oh, you meant who am I supposed to give way to?

[Tank]

I only give way to people already on the round about or on the right if they are going faster than me:D
That's the problem with roundabouts, people still give way to the right, Give Way to the Right went out decades ago when Give Way signs and Terminating intersections were introduced. Anyone approaching a roundabout is required to slow down, I believe the speed limit in a roundabout is 40klm/h, but who obeys that and the main reason is that drivers believe if they are on your right they have right of way, it's about time the cops enforced the rules and book these drivers that plough on, at speed through a roundabout believing they have right of way, Regards Frank.

[JDNSW]

That's the problem with roundabouts, people still give way to the right, Give Way to the Right went out decades ago when Give Way signs and Terminating intersections were introduced. Anyone approaching a roundabout is required to slow down, I believe the speed limit in a roundabout is 40klm/h, but who obeys that and the main reason is that drivers believe if they are on your right they have right of way, it's about time the cops enforced the rules and book these drivers that plough on, at speed through a roundabout believing they have right of way, Regards Frank.

I think you are understating the problem. The rule to give way to traffic already on the roundabout is effectively a "give way on the right" rule since all traffic on your right is on the roundabout. Where this becomes a problem is in those intersections with a very small roundabout, where, if you are stopped (to give way to previous traffic) at the entrance to a roundabout, a car entering from the next entrance to your right, will be in conflict with you because, not having to stop, he will be at your entrance before you have fully entered the roundabout. You have no safe alternative but to wait for him. How small a "small" roundabout is in this context depends on how fast the traffic entering is going, but even for traffic doing well under 40kph, it will apply to those roundabouts simply put in a pre-existing crossroads, such as the ones all over Dubbo.

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Tank's correct, John and Geof have nailed it with what people think is the rule.

If someone is entering a roundabout slowly and someone is speeding in from the right, although not yet across the roundabout threshold, the speeder will still take his "right of way" even though he doesn't have it and if they bingle the coppers will charge the slow driver not the driver who didn't give way to the car on his left but already on the roundabout.

[ATH]

It's not only roundabouts that confuse WA motorists, it's all roads and all rules.
Dim witted doesn't begin to describe most of them.:D
AlanH.

[Mick_Marsh]

From the Victorian road rules:

Rule 114
Giving way when entering or driving in a roundabout
(1) A driver entering a roundabout must give way to—
(a) any vehicle in the roundabout; and
(b) a tram that is entering or approaching the roundabout.
Penalty: 5 penalty units.
Note 1 Tram is defined in the dictionary.
Note 2 For this rule, give way means the driver must slow down and, if necessary,
stop to avoid a collision—see the definition in the dictionary.
(2) A driver driving in a roundabout must give way to a tram that is in, entering or
approaching the roundabout.
Penalty: 5 penalty units.
(3) In this rule—
tram includes a bus travelling along tram tracks.
Note 1 Travelling along tram tracks is defined in the dictionary.
Note 2 For the give way rules applying to a driver moving from one marked lane or
line of traffic to another marked lane or line of traffic, see rule 148.

What is really interesting is the definition of a roundabout:

Rule 109
What is a roundabout
A roundabout is an intersection with—
(a) one or more marked lanes, or lines of traffic, all of which are for the use
of vehicles travelling in the same direction around a central traffic
island; and
(b) a roundabout sign at each entrance.
Note 1 Intersection, marked lane, traffic and traffic island are defined in the
dictionary.
Note 2 Rule 322(3) and (4) deal with the meaning of a traffic sign at a place.

So, a roundabout is an intersection and an intersection is:

intersection means the area where 2 or more roads (except any road related area)
meet, and includes—
(a) any area of the roads where vehicles travelling on different roads might
collide; and
(b) the area of any slip lane where the roads meet—
but does not include any road related area.
Note Road is defined in rule 12, road related area is defined in rule 13, slip lane is defined in this dictionary, and vehicle is defined in rule 15.

slip lane means an area of road for vehicles turning left that is separated, at some
point, from other parts of the road by a painted island or traffic island.
Note Painted island and traffic island are defined in this dictionary, and vehicle is defined in rule 15.

The local bus drivers know these rules really well. They'll just pull right out in front of you because they know, if you run into them, you are at fault.
They're interpretation of these rules is you must give way to anything in front of you.

Tell me I'm wrong but them's the rules in black and white.

[Bigbjorn]

When my son had his Learner's Permit in 1997-98 his driving instructor stressed the items that were an "instant fail" on the test. One of these was "failure to indicate leaving a roundabout".

[Mick_Marsh]

Rule 112
Giving a left change of direction signal when entering a roundabout
(1) This rule applies to a driver entering a roundabout if—
(a) the driver is to leave the roundabout at the first exit after entering the
roundabout; and
(b) the exit is less than halfway around the roundabout.
(2) The driver must give a left change of direction signal when the driver is
entering the roundabout.
Penalty: 3 penalty units
Note Left change of direction signal is defined in the dictionary.
(3) The driver must continue to give the change of direction signal until the driver
has left the roundabout.
Penalty: 3 penalty units.
(4) This rule does not apply to a driver if the driver’s vehicle is not fitted with
direction indicator lights.
Note Driver’s vehicle is defined in the dictionary.

Rule 113
Giving a right change of direction signal when entering a roundabout
(1) This rule applies to a driver entering a roundabout if the driver is to leave the
roundabout more than halfway around it.
(2) The driver must give a right change of direction signal when the driver is
entering the roundabout.
Penalty: 3 penalty units.
Note Right change of direction signal is defined in the dictionary.
(3) The driver must continue to give the change of direction signal while the
driver is driving in the roundabout, unless—
(a) the driver is changing marked lanes, or entering another line of traffic;
or
(b) the driver’s vehicle is not fitted with direction indicator lights.
Penalty: 3 penalty units.
Note 1 Driver’s vehicle and marked lane are defined in the dictionary.
Note 2 Rule 117 deals with giving change of direction signals before changing
marked lanes, or entering another line of traffic, in a roundabout.

Although it doesn't say, as there is no rule that states you don't indicate when travelling straight through an intersection, I believe you ar not required to indicate when entering an roundabout when you intend to travel straight or predominately straight, but:

Rule 118
Giving a left change of direction signal when leaving a roundabout
(1) If practicable, a driver driving in a roundabout must give a left change of
direction signal when leaving the roundabout.
Penalty: 3 penalty units.
Note Left change of direction signal is defined in the dictionary.
(2) The driver must stop giving the change of direction signal as soon as the
driver has left the roundabout.
Penalty: 3 penalty units.
(3) This rule does not apply to a driver if the driver’s vehicle is not fitted with
direction indicator lights.
Note 1 Driver’s vehicle is defined in the dictionary.
Note 2 The rules in Part 11 about driving in marked lanes and moving from one
marked lane or line of traffic to another marked lane or line of traffic apply to a
driver leaving a roundabout—see rules 146 to 148.

And because it is also pertinent:

Rule 117
Giving a change of direction signal when changing marked lanes or lines of
traffic in a roundabout
(1) A driver driving in a roundabout must give a left change of direction signal
before the driver changes marked lanes to the left, or enters a line of traffic to
the left, in the roundabout, unless the driver’s vehicle is not fitted with direction
indicator lights.
Penalty: 3 penalty units.
Note Driver’s vehicle and left change of direction signal are defined in the
dictionary.
(2) A driver driving in a roundabout must give a right change of direction signal
before the driver changes marked lanes to the right, or enters a line of traffic
to the right, in the roundabout.
Penalty: 3 penalty units.
Note Right change of direction signal is defined in the dictionary.

[superquag]

With all that wordiness..its no wonder many drivers have no idea of what the rules are.
How much of it relates to Common Sense ?

In WA, its simple. The vehicle already in the roundabout has right of way over a vehicle entering the roundabout.

For the numpties... "First in - Best dressed"

- And the Powers That Be wonder why there's so many prangs !

[gavinwibrow]

Spoken like a true sandgroper (all too sadly quite correct)

[Sleepy]

Oh Mick, you would have to mention Trams. :eek: Try the big round about at the top of Elizabeth st in Melbourne. 7 dual lanes entering and leaving and a tram line through the middle. Give way to the right except for trams on your left, 3 pedestrian crossing, tram Y junction........:eek:

I'm with sprint, just shut your eyes and pray....

Sing to that one you Irish folk singing git.:p

[Mick_Marsh]

With all that wordiness..its no wonder many drivers have no idea of what the rules are.
How much of it relates to Common Sense ?

In WA, its simple. The vehicle already in the roundabout has right of way over a vehicle entering the roundabout.

For the numpties... "First in - Best dressed"

- And the Powers That Be wonder why there's so many prangs !
I think you will find that is not quite true.
You well find you must give way to anything on the roundabout and this may include anything you may perceive as not in the roundabout but about to enter.
To play it safe, with roundabouts, just give way to anything.

[slug_burner]

So who do you give way to in Australia, I know who but do you? Regards Frank.

See Mick Marsh's posts, basically you give way to people on the roundabout.

[Bundalene]

To play it safe, with roundabouts, just give way to anything.

I have seen this before - we call it a Mexican stand off when no one knows who should enter first, each waiting for another for what seems an age.

I am with Tank on this one, don't know much about trams though!

Erich

[123rover50]

Oh Mick, you would have to mention Trams. :eek: Try the big round about at the top of Elizabeth st in Melbourne. 7 dual lanes entering and leaving and a tram line through the middle. Give way to the right except for trams on your left, 3 pedestrian crossing, tram Y junction........:eek:

I'm with sprint, just shut your eyes and pray....

Sing to that one you Irish folk singing git.:p

Holy Moses..... Ill keep away from there.:o

[blackbuttdisco]

Someone mentioned a roundabout had to have enough room to have a raised section in the middle. When we were in England driving the 7m motorhome we came upon a sign that indicated there were 2 roundabouts ahead. So I slowed down and about 50m later I could not see any roundabout, so we went around the block and approached again. In the middle of the road there were 2 white painted "roundabouts" about 300mm in diameter! They were the roundabouts and we had driven straight over them. Also, we did drive to the Magic Roundabout at Swindon as I had heard about it, and just followed a semi as he just drove straight across and everyone stopped and let us both go where we wanted to go.

[Redback]

I agree qith Lots a Landies, Tank, JDNSW and (and I never thought I'd ever say this:o) Supaquad:eek:

Try that big roundabout in Paris, you know you've entered a roundabout then:Thump::Thump::no2: the French are mad:eek:

Baz.

[Ivan]

What hacks me off over here is the idiots who indicate right on a roundabout, but are carrying straight on. I don't know where this idea comes from but have seen a lot of people doing this.
If you are going straight across a roundabout you do not signal until you are ready to pull off the roundabout (i.e. you are approaching your exit).

Ivan

[sheerluck]

What hacks me off over here is the idiots who indicate right on a roundabout, but are carrying straight on. I don't know where this idea comes from but have seen a lot of people doing this.
If you are going straight across a roundabout you do not signal until you are ready to pull off the roundabout (i.e. you are approaching your exit).

Ivan

Yes, I've seen that too. However, I was sure that I had read that that was a requirement in one of the states' rules, to indicate right until you reach your exit, then indicate left and exit.

[d@rk51d3]

And to top it all off, indicating to leave the roundabout is only required "if convenient" in SA.

[solmanic]

Tank's correct, John and Geof have nailed it with what people think is the rule.

If someone is entering a roundabout slowly and someone is speeding in from the right, although not yet across the roundabout threshold, the speeder will still take his "right of way" even though he doesn't have it and if they bingle the coppers will charge the slow driver not the driver who didn't give way to the car on his left but already on the roundabout.

Technically, if someone speeds into a round-about and nails a slow vehicle that has already entered from the next entry point then it is a rear end collision. Therefore the faster driver is a fault. The rule is simply "give way to traffic on round-about" whether it is on your right or left. As soon as a vehicle's wheels cross the line, they are on the round-about and anyone still approaching has to give way to them. The only reason the slow car mentioned above would be charged is if the speedster simply lied and said they were on the round-about first. I'm sure the accident investigators would be able to determine who was in the right based on impact point, tyre marks and all that stuff though.

In reality though, you do well to be cautious because it is just plain dumb to purposely put your vehicle in front of a moron who doesn't understand the rules even if it's their fault.

[roverfan]

That is so retarded and the biggest waste of bandwidth of al time

[Lotz-A-Landies]

What hacks me off over here is the idiots who indicate right on a roundabout, but are carrying straight on. I don't know where this idea comes from but have seen a lot of people doing this.
If you are going straight across a roundabout you do not signal until you are ready to pull off the roundabout (i.e. you are approaching your exit).

IvanThat was the original rule in NSW. You had to indicate right upon entering the roundabout and then left when exiting roundabout and of course there's always an exception. If you were exiting at the first exit you had to indicate left when entering.

Only a bureaucrat who only catches public tansport could invent a rule like that. These are the same bureaucrats who design cycleways where the cyclist has to make 4 ninety degree turns to cycle around the back of a bus shelter.

[Tank]

And to top it all off, indicating to leave the roundabout is only required "if convenient" in SA.
In NSW as well, Regards Frank.

[Sleepy]

What hacks me off over here is the idiots who indicate right on a roundabout, but are carrying straight on. I don't know where this idea comes from ....

Its a NZ thing. I am surprised none of our kiwi bro have entered into the conversation. A friend of mine who spent 12 months in NZ said they are very.....well....different. Indicate left when entering (regardless of where you are exiting) then right as you progress around....then left as you exit.

Geez bro, that is confusing.

I'll let you tell the 150kg Maori dude he is an idiot Ivan.:angel:




I have seen this before - we call it a Mexican stand off
You guys just love blaming Victorians for everything. :p

[Tank]

I had an arguement with a cop one day who had pulled me over for not indicating when leaving a roundabout, I was going straight ahead in a small single lane roundabout.
I asked him what was the signal for turning left, left blinker said he, correct said I.
I asked him what was the signal for turning right, right blinker said he, correct again.
What's the signal for going straight ahead, there is none, said the copper.
I also pointed out that if I followed the law to the letter, then I would have to indicate my my intention 30 metres before I intended taking that action. Which meant that by law I should indicate by using my left blinker at least 30 metres before the exit of the roundabout. Which means in most cases that would be well before entering the roundabout. Any poor bastard waiting in the street on my left would think it was safe to move into the roundabout, copper let me off this time, not long after the rule about signalling left "only where convenient" was introduced.
Roundabouts don't work where there are 2 large amounts of traffic converging at a roundabout where one lot of traffic "THINKS" they should give way to the other traffic on their right, Regards Frank.

[slug_burner]

............Roundabouts don't work where there are 2 large amounts of traffic converging at a roundabout where one lot of traffic "THINKS" they should give way to the other traffic on their right, Regards Frank.

You are right about that, a sign a roundabout does not work due to too much traffic is when they have to use traffic lights to control the flow onto the roundabout.

[d2dave]

Oh Mick, you would have to mention Trams. :eek: Try the big round about at the top of Elizabeth st in Melbourne. 7 dual lanes entering and leaving and a tram line through the middle. Give way to the right except for trams on your left, 3 pedestrian crossing, tram Y junction........:eek:

I'm with sprint, just shut your eyes and pray....

Sing to that one you Irish folk singing git.:p

I second that. It was not one of my favourite intersections. I was recently in Melb and there is now traffic lights at this roundabout. It is much better.

Dave.

[d2dave]

That's the problem with roundabouts, people still give way to the right, Give Way to the Right went out decades ago

1999 in Victoria to be exact. It was changed from give way to right to help improve traffic flow when traffic was heavy.

Dave.

[Tank]

1999 in Victoria to be exact. It was changed from give way to right to help improve traffic flow when traffic was heavy.

Dave.
In NSW it went when T (Terminating) intersections and Give Way signs were introduced and that was at least 30 years ago, Regards Frank.

[Beckford]

Roundabouts do not work on the Central Coast, as people do not know the meaning of courtesy to other road users.

I call it "F3 syndrome"