Newbie in the Land of Rovers

[Porchy]

One of the fellas suggested I re post this here from the introductions page. I thought that to be a great idea, so here it is.

Hi guys,
Dan here. I am in the process of buying my first 4wd and have decided upon the 2000 Range Rover (or more the point the budget and the missus did. :)). The deposit is down and just waiting for the approval on the finance, but now I need to ask some advice.

Firstly, I had better tell you about the things that it will be used for. We have 2 young kids and a caravan. You guessed it, another Toorak tractor with light towing duties. We wanted something that would be comfy around town for daily driving as well as have the grunt to pull the van easily and provide the comfort for the growing kids in the back on longer trips. I personally am also looking forward to the opportunity to do a little 4 wheel driving in order to camp and fish in some out of the way places.

Now for the car.

As mentioned it is a 2000 Range Rover. It is the 4.0L V8. I have viewed receipts for a mountain of work done on it including:
Complete recent engine rebuild, alternator, hoses, electrical board fix up (under drivers seat) , air suspension 3 out of 4 air boots and compressor replacement. Roughly 10 grand spent somewhat recently.

I am reasonably handy on the spanners so could probably fix most mechanical problems myself but;

The questions I have for you, the experienced gurus in the land of Rovers are:

1. What have I gotten myself in for?
2. What problems do you know of with these models?
3. Is there any way of avoiding/preventing them other than regular maintenance?

Any ideas would be unreal.

Thanks

Porchy

[33chinacars]

Hi Dan & welcome to the world according to Land Rover. I would never have bought my P38 without the assistance of the members here. As was said to me if you knew of all the faults you would never buy one . But after having owned one you will never drive anything else :):wasntme:
Preventive mantanance is your best friend and they are simple to work on. Get yourself a copy of RAVE cd.

Here is the bible for Range Rover's & P38's.

Range Rovers (http://www.rangerovers.net/)

or more specifically.

Range Rover P38/4.0/4.6 Common Problems and Fixes (http://www.rangerovers.net/newrremedies.htm)

There is a wealth of knowledge on here . As well as other forums.Try these.

fullfatrr.com - Index (http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/)

RangeRovers.net Forum (http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/)

Gary

[Porchy]

Thanks for the reply Gary.

I thought that I would ask you guys as I have read a heap of reviews since putting down the deposit and was getting a little scared.

People either seemed to love them or REALLY hate them. Complaints ranging from fuel consumption, to engine woes and the moustache on the guy who designed them.

I thought it might be the old thing of make sure you sook nice and loud if you hated things but keep quiet if it is good.

Hopefully I'm right.

Porchy

[DT-P38]

Welcome aboard,

Definetley get a copy of Rave first.

Also suggest you go checkout hardrange.com and purchase an EAS Bypass kit. If the budget allows, also grab an EAS Buddy or Kicker. Also, if your wanting off roading then check out their lift kits, bars, etc.

Also, if engine has been rebuilt recently check with repairer if radiator, thermostat, water pump were looked at/serviced/replaced. If not, get the system flushed, tested and fix whatever is advised.

If you can DIY you will be a happier owner as you will not have to pay others silly money for relatively simple work. And these are quite simple to work on for service and common repairs. Look for service and replacement parts online if you have time at ebay.co.uk and if no time come back here for advise on good local suppliers.

The only other thing I would say is drive it, treat it like a normal car, enjoy the ride and come here with any specific queries or concerns. Try not to get too emotionally attached to the thing... they can get their claws into you.

HooRoo, Dave

[Porchy]

Thanks very much for the info. I shall definitely be checking out the sites etc that you have mentioned. I will also check in regards to the cooling system because from what I read that is the real killer of engines (a bit different to the old Holden red that is in my Monaro :burnrubber:).

Porchy

[33chinacars]

Yes as Dave said. I had an EAS Kicker, recommended. Clears EAS faults. Also fitted a bypass kit. Another plus. Dont forget RAVE.
Even with a few minor faults they will grow on you.
And YES E-Bay.co.uk is your friend. Prices can be 1/3-1/2 what they are here.As long as there not too big as postage can sometimes be a killer. Can be negated by combining a number of items in one parcel.

Gary

[poleonpom]

Welcome to the gang of bangheaders. Range Rovers are a rewarding mix of pain and pleasure, one minute your giving her a good spanking, the next thing you know she's got you bent over clutching your ankles - if this is your scene, you're going to love your RR.
On a more level note, the RR is a complicated car made easy by the great info and support. A lot of the challenges you will face have been well reported and that limits the surprises but will still give you a few good challenges along the way. Ebay.co.uk is a great hunting ground as is its US counterpart. Don' forget to bend the knees!

[Blknight.aus]

Before you get it... Get the RAVE from daves shop and begin reading.....

make sure you understand and I mean REALLY understand the wiring schematics and diagnostics sections.... (the servicing and maintenance overhaul sections and pretty much the whole rest of the disc are also worth knowing)

just trust me...

Oh... find all the earth points and fix them first.

[redandy3575]

Not too much more to add here but to love the vehicle for what it was made for, luxury four wheel driving, and it does it in style. These vehicles are a real eye opener to those that don't know Range Rovers, and boy does it suprise. Obviously as mentioned earlier, keep on top of the maintenance, learn as much about how the vehicle ticks, have it serviced by a good RR mechanic on a regular basis and you will love the Range Rover. Oh and another thing is to be gentle with them, they're the sort of vehicle that if you look after it, it will look after you, simple as that

[PaulP38a]

Porchy - welcome mate! You are going to love your P38, then hate it if/when something goes wrong, then you're going to love it all over again when it is fixed. It has been said before and I'll say it again... maintain it and it will serve you well, ignore it and it will drive you mad. Cooling system, air suspension, battery and earth points pretty much covers 90% of issues.

If you do check out the hardrange.com site, never mind that it is just a static page at the moment. I will get the shop up and running again sometime between now and the new year. Contact Andy and I directly through info@hardrange.com if there are any bits you are after. Calibrate your expectations and pricing by checking back here at the forum and through eBay and UK based suppliers. I won't take offence if you get a better price somewhere else - I am primarily a P38 enthusiast who happens to have a hobby business that sells (some) bits for them ;)

Cheers, Paul.

[Keithy P38]

I really didn't want to publicly say this, but I'm going to! Knowing my luck it'll play up now! I have not had an issue with either of my P38's, other than the fact that I drowned my first one in a creek. Have been an owner of P38's for 3 + years now.

I have done an alternator, as any vehicle could/would.

As mentioned, service it and keep it clean, it'll love you back! Mine is used for a lot of low range and high articulation 4wding and has yet to be shown up.

I'm sure you'll get many happy years of enjoyable motoring!

Cheers
Keithy

[Porchy]

Wow, you guys are great. I have been on other forums for some of my other cars before and they tend to be littered with smart remarks from inept minds. I really appreciate the help so far. Thanks

Another quick question. What is the EAS Bypass and EAS Kicker? What do they do and how much are they roughly?

Cheers
Porchy

[33chinacars]

Hi Porchy

An EAS Kicker from Black Box Solutions will allow you to reset any air suspension faults.
https://blackbox-solutions.com/shop/

The Bypass kit allows you to manually inflate your air suspension. Can be plumbed a couple of ways. Check with Paul from HardRange.

Later you may want to get you own diagnostic equipment

Gary

[wayneg]

Another quick question. What is the EAS Bypass and EAS Kicker? What do they do and how much are they roughly?
Cheers
Porchy

Eas kicker is a standalone unit
If you have a laptop you can get free software but need a lead, available from HardRange or e-bay. ( HardRange is a much better quality lead and well worth the little extra)
EAS Bypass kits come in 2 types, those that are pre fitted or those that are fitted when needed.
For me a 10" Netbook with EAS software and lead, P38a workshop manual, GPS and maps plus an EAS emergency bypass kit are always in the car. I can confirm the EAS bypass kit will save a trip having had a failure one day into a 3 day bush trip. Would have been a massive problem without it

[PaulP38a]

Porchy - there are some pics of the EAS Emergency Bypass Kit (EBK) at my EAS Valve Block rebuild page EAS Valve Block Renew « PaulP38A.com (http://paulp38a.com/99p38a/eas-valve-block-renew/)

The other type of Emergency bypass that Wayne alludes to is simply 4 schraeder valve with 6mm push fittings that you can connect to the air lines if the EAS craps itself. In either case you will need to remove the EAS Delay Timer from under the passenger seat (black relay looking thing about the size of a match box) to prevent the car from self-levelling.

EAS Kicker is good, but I prefer the cable and laptop as it has a lot more control. An EAS Kicker Lite https://www.blackbox-solutions.com/shop/?code=BEKL1&from=BLACKBOX%20BASICBITS&item=BEKL1
or EAS Buddy http://rswsolutions.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=34 is handy to keep in the car for a quick re-set of EAS faults if you don't have time to get the laptop and cable out.

Both of my P38's have the EBK fitted and an Kicker Lite (or Buddy, always forget which) stored in the glove box.

Cheers, Paul.

[Porchy]

Well, I'm sitting here writing reports and can't wait for tomorrow. The cheque from the bank is ready to go and so am I. Pity I need to sleep first.:zzz:
I know it is the missus' new car but we will be picking up the P38A tomorrow afternoon and I am pumped. The kids are pretty excited too.

Porchy

[poleonpom]

Good stuff. I bought my RR for me, but do you think I can get my wife out of it? Enjoy the pick up, when it's going great, every ride is as good as the 1st.

[Porchy]

Thanks mate. Shall do

[Porchy]

Well, it's home!:D

We picked up the P38 yesterday and the missus is chuffed. I haven't had a look in yet but I'm sure that it will be soon (I hope).

The only issue with it is the new 2010 wheels that are on it. They look magnificent but give a lovely shudder when coming back down throw 90-80 kms. It feels like a wheel balance thing so should be a cheap and easy fix. The previous owner told me that it never did it with the old 16 inch wheels so worst case, they may find their way back onto the car. Pretty sure that wont happen though.

Porchy

[wayneg]

Make sure the wheels have the spigot rings fitted. If not I would not drive the car before fitting them

See.........

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-P38-Discovery-2-Alloy-Wheel-Locating-Rings-/260897571570?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3cbeb502f2

[Porchy]

Thanks Wayneg. One of my mates mentioned it could be something like that or a shim. I will check them out when I get home.

Cheers
Porchy

[33chinacars]

Not only spigots but make sure you have the correct nuts for the later rims

Gary

[Porchy]

Thanks Gary. I definitely have the right nuts (on the car that is). I checked the spare wheel and didn't find the spigot so I reckon that might be it. Can most tyre/wheel alignment places get them or should I just order the ones wayneg gave the link to? I'd rather not wait until it gets here from the UK

Porchy

[33chinacars]

Spigots may not be available in Oz. Go for the ones waynrg pointed out on ebay.

Or this one
RANGE ROVER P38 ALLOY WHEEL FITTING KIT SPIGOT RINGS | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RANGE-ROVER-P38-ALLOY-WHEEL-FITTING-KIT-SPIGOT-RINGS-/200398110600?_trksid=p5197.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.NPJS%26itu%3DI%252BUA%26otn%3 D12%26pmod%3D260897571570%252B140650753664%252B280 734202001%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D465212504 8493446776)
The cars nuts ( not yours ) should be different to standard P38 nuts ?:) For the later rims

Gary

[Porchy]

Well gents, as I expected you were right. She needs the spigots. They seem to sell them in packs of 4. The question I have is, are they fitted to the wheels or the hubs? I will need to fork out for one for the spare if they are fitted to the wheels.

BTW I have been told to keep it away from LPG. I am interested to see what your experiences are with the old BBQ juice.

Thanks

Porchy

[wayneg]

You only need 4, they fix to the wheel. If fitting the spare just swap it over.
I would think it would be a good idea to use some anti seize compound if you are planning on getting punctures

[Porchy]

Thanks mate I shall buy myself a set then. I don't really plan on getting punctures, but it is the boss' car so I would not want her on the side of the road worrying about it.

[Porchy]

Well, two/three weeks into ownership and the Land Rover Lurgie has hit. The boss was driving down to pick up the kids this arvo and her phone rang. She pulled over to answer it and the car took it as a cue to start making a pfuffing noise that sounds a bit like it is missing as well as losing compression. The first thing I did was drop it in to my mechanic. He will be doing a comp check first to check which side is the culprit but tells me it sounds like a rocker might have jumped off or a possible valve issue. Cover/s off at the least, if not a head off, AAAAARRRGH.
He is a good mate so will let me pay off an account but it erks me that it happens now when I can't get on the spanners and fix it myself.

Sorry about the rant, just needed to vent.

Porchy

[wayneg]

Sorry to hear of your woes, especially so soon after getting the car.
In you first post you said the car came with loads of receipts for recent work including an engine re-build. Any Guarantees or Warranty?
Keep us informed

[BusinessConnected]

I've had a "Pluffing Sound" before and it's been the Spark Plug Leads falling off the Coil Pack... so maybe something simple?

[BusinessConnected]

Also not sure about the concerns with LPG.
I have a Sequential Injection (i.e: LPG Injected into the Cylinders like Petrol) Kit which has served me very, very well over the last 60,000km.

It's really nice driving into the Petrol Station every 350km and only costing you around $34 to fill up.

[Porchy]

Thanks for your thoughts guys. I hope it is as simple as a lead. That would be unreal. I might pass that by my mate.
Re: the LPG. That's great to know. If anyone else has testimonials that would also be great.
Cheers
(Out of pocket) Porchy

[BusinessConnected]

Good Luck Mate,
I can understand peoples misgivings about using "Straight" LPG on these Engines as Valve Seat Wear etc can be an issue.

However pretty much every Sequential System is Dual Fuel, mine starts and runs on Petrol for 3-4 minutes every morning whilst the car gets up to operating Temperature. I've also set mine to switch to Petrol when I'm above 4000RPM (Found it was easier in Calibration etc and better off road). As soon as it's back under 4000rpm it switches back to LPG.

[Porchy]

Well, to put it mildly, F*%$#@, Sh&*$%#, and bugger!

Lead....no
Rocker....no
Spring....no

My mate did the compression test today and whipped off the rocker cover.
I am heading in tomorrow to pull off the head. Looks like I might have a valve issue. Losing compression on no.3 and pretty sure (also hoping) that it is in the top end.

Porchy

[Porchy]

Head's off. It's the head gasket. Some dingbat when rebuilding the engine decided to put 2 19mm bolts in the middle of the head :mad: which has caused it to nicely blow out between them due to obviously not recalculating the tensions for the different bolts.

So, 2 helicoils a new gasket and some more time and I'll have it done. Thank god it wasn't a valve, or worse, a ring.

Porchy

[BusinessConnected]

Good Result in the end... considering the earlier forecasts...

[Porchy]

Hell yeah! I am a shocking pessimist when I have a problem with the car. I like to prepare for the worst so that I can have that great feeling of AHHHHHH when it turns out relatively ok.

Porchy

[33chinacars]

Could have been the dreaded slipped liner. Much more pain. Not nice, but simple in comparison.

Gary

[Porchy]

Blood oath Gaz. If it had been that I would have been tracking down the guy who rebuilt the engine and giving him a special Christmas visit.

Porchy

[33chinacars]

Baseball bat or bunch of fives :wasntme:

[redandy3575]

Well you can be sure that the same problem usually doesn't happen twice. As you found out just then that Rangie is a relative easy vehicle to work on and to rectify most problems with some basic mechanical knowledge. But you will become a better mechanic after a few more years of ownership, but i'll guarantee that you'll be driving also a better vehicle when the jobs completed by yourself.

As far as the LPG conversion is concerned, i myself couldn't convince in spending $5000 in getting it done, but if you do go for it just make sure you spend the extra $100 for the optional oil injection to keep the heads lubricated, trust me it'll pay off further down the track by reducing the risk of premature wear & burn of the valves. All in all i've heard a mixture of good & bad stories about LPG, so best to sit down, have a cuppa, do the maths, and consider if it's worth while. Just remember that the Range Rover V8 was originally designed to run on Petrol, not LPG.

just my 5c worth

[Porchy]

Thanks for the reply redandy.

Well the saga continues. 3 /4 weeks of driving and the problem happens. All looked good, but to put it mildly:

Does anyone out there have an equivalent model 3.9L block that they would like to get rid of cheaply.

Basically, the machinist has told me that helicoiling this sized hole is a bad idea and wont work terribly well. So, I am left chasing up another block or chasing up the "mechanic" that butchered the job.

Fun fun fun

Porchy :(

[PaulP38a]

Might be worth dropping a PM to Bundalene and/or Andrew E (father and son) on this forum. Might have a block out of a Disco 2 that would suit.

Cheers, Paul.

[Porchy]

Thanks for the lead Paul. I was wondering if anyone knew which 3.9 V8s can fit in the car. Does it need to be a certain year? Can I use one from a Disco 1 or 2? What are the major differences if any between the 2000 Range Rover engine and the Disco 1/2 engines?

Thanks and Merry Christmas

Porchy

[Porchy]

Well, I may have (from discussing/bitching about my problem with a mate) discovered a cheap for now solution to the problem.

My mate mentioned possibly using Devcon Aluminum or Titanium Putty to fill the stuffed 19mm bolt holes. He said that when this stuff sets it is as good as metal and allows you to drill and tap it.

I figure, what the hell! I might have to clean the old holes out and plug them up using what's left of the old thread in the hole to give more surface area for the bond. After an appropriate curing time, redrill and retap or insert a helicoil for the original sized bolts. I'm thinking though that the use of studs (if I can get them) with some shaft seal should hold it.

Apparently the Devcon holds up to 250 deg F for the Al putty and 350 deg F for the Ti one. I figure the engine shouldn't be getting that hot provided that my thermo fans are working. The problem holes are also (thankfully) on the cooler intake side of the block.

Thoughts?

Porchy

[Porchy]

Well guys, I know it's been a couple of weeks since my last post, but the bus is fixed. :D
I did a heap of reading here and other places and came up with the solution myself. I found Bigserts on the web and had my machinist make up a similar type of thing. They were loctited in and the original sized bolts were then inserted. After a bit of screwing around with the intake to match the previously butchered (excessively ground/faced) heads :mad:I got her back together. Early days, but the old girl is running better with more power and arguably slightly better fuel economy (drinks like a smaller shark now) than before.
Thanks for the advice etc. It really helps to be able to vent and seek assistance from like minded enthusiasts.

PS. Beginning to feel like a P38 top end specialist.

Cheers
Porchy

[Hoges]

Well done... happy travelling!!

[33chinacars]

Good to hear your on the road again. :thumbsup:

Gary

[redandy3575]

Well, now that the Rangie is fixed, you can drive it like a king, cause the P38 is the vehicle of kings. Lesson learned from this, is to triple check everything before you purchase a Rangie, or any Land Rover product for that matter from careless owners. And if unsure, you can always ask someone here, or even ask someone to come with you as a knowledgeable back up to inspect the vehicle, i'm sure most will only be happy to help.

[clubagreenie]

Please, and it's not too late. replace the bolts with studs. The standard bolts are TTY (torque to yield or better put tighten till they stretch). Had your issue in my D2 plus a slipped liner (did they check that on yours, didn't overheat though so should be ok) I tested 3 or 4 sets of bolts with both composite and tin gaskets and the range of tensions both immediately and +24hr from tightening. There was a large range of variation in final values.

[Porchy]

I was contemplating studs mate but after a bit of reading I was under the impression that there were clearance issues with the rangie if studs were inserted.

In regards to the triple checking upon purchase, I will definitely be doing that next time. Obviously viewing receipts for rebuilds doesn't show how poorly they were done. D'oh!

Again your support and ideas are greatly appreciated guys.

Porchy

[redandy3575]

I found that there are very few mechanics out there that know anything about Rang rovers, some pretend to know but realistically don't know much. That's why I'm very picky on who gets to work on mine.

[Porchy]

Hehe, hearing you there. I am a classic car enthusiast too and only either my good mate or myself work on them. I reckon the P38 is joining the ranks there too. At least then I know that any stuff ups are my own fault, and surprisingly, as a backyard hacker, they are few and far between.

Porchy

[clubagreenie]

The only clearance issues are the last two or three at the back and then only on the drivers side (at least on the D2). You can fit the heads with the rest installed and then fit the last few. The studs don't need to be torqued or loctited into the block, just finger tight and then I use pressure from one finger to tighten slightly.