Cannondale MTB - What Model???

[CJT]

So I used to race X-Country and BMX and do a lot of single track and trail riding.

I am looking at getting back into off-road riding soon.

My only issue at the moment is what to get;

I am looking at either a Cannondale Hardtail or a Scalpel with Carbon Lefty Fork etc.

I do not want to race cross country again so this will be a general bike for weekends and possibly some commuting.

I do tend to be a bit of a dirt jumper as well (Having said that I have been jumping anything from BMX, hardtail, dual suspension with no issues).

So any thoughts from anyone?

[Rayngie]

Gotta love a Cannondale, I have a 2005 Gemini 1000 that i'll be buried with...

the Scalpel is a race bike really, geometery wise anyway, I reckon the new Jeykll is probably better as an all rounder, do it all bike, more so if going downhill will be involved, it'll handle that really well.

thing is, if you want a scalpel, buy a scalpel, very nice..

Ray

[rainman]

Hi CJT,

If you're going to be jumping, or leaving the ground at all, say NO to the Lefty. I've seen one of them come in to the transition area at Kooralbyn during a 12 hour as a "Righty" (spun around 180 degrees). I really think for longevity you're best sticking with the tried and trusted standard fork design.

As for the actual bike, it sounds like you're trying to cover a lot of bases. A carbon hardtail with 100mm forks is a good all round choice, except for the dirt jumping bit. You could go an alloy XC hardtail, but again, the forks are probably not going to be up to the jumping. The commuting bit pretty much rules out dual suspension, so perhaps an all-mountain-ish/dirt-jumpy hardtail? If you're happy to spend a bit, the Santa Cruz Chameleon is an awesome all rounder (this is why I have one, but I don't commute on it), but you're going to have to build it up as they don't come as a complete bike. Grimace here on the forum has just bought a Jamis Dragon Pro (http://jamisbikes.com/usa/thebikes/hardtails/dragon/11_dragonpro.html) (steel hardtail) as an all rounder. It's basically an XC bike so it won't take a lot of jumping, but a bit.....

The sky is the limit really. Can you narrow it down a bit by giving us an approximate dollar figure? And how much air are you planning to get? Are you talking one foot drops on the trail every now and then or road gaps?


Viva la MTB!
James.

[Scallops]

I reckon, from my experience, that race geometry is better than a more "relaxed" geometry, even if commuting and general singletrack riding is your thing, and should perhaps be a consideration. My Fisher Cake with "all mountain" geometry was a pig compared to my Trek 9.9 SSL. I feel a lot more stable and confident on the "race geometry" bike. But I don't know what the geometry is like for your choices, but if they are different, maybe a consideration.

As to hardtail dually decisions - you'll have to make that one. Having had both, and for my needs, a hardtail wins every time and as my wife only allows a certain number of toys, having both is not an option.

[Scallops]

Another good reason to go with Cannondale (or Trek) is that they offer lifetime frame warranties. A friend in the UQ cycle club had the first generation OCLV road race bike (circa 1992?) and it broke in 2007 - he now rides a Madone 5.9 SL, and the frame was warranted without question.

[CJT]

The sky is the limit really. Can you narrow it down a bit by giving us an approximate dollar figure? And how much air are you planning to get? Are you talking one foot drops on the trail every now and then or road gaps?

Price wise, I am looking at buying a Cannondale bare fram and building up from there. Happy to pay good money for a Carbon Scalpel frame or hardtail frame.

For forks I would go to RLC Sports RLC Sport Aerozine Project 321 Cyclinic Cannondale Service Centre Lefty Spares (http://rlcsport.com.au/) for a MY12 XLR Carbon Lefty Fork with hydraulic lockout.

Rest of the build is still open at this stage however quiet possibly SRAM groupset and hydraulic discs, wheelset top be determined etc.

[CJT]

And how much air are you planning to get? Are you talking one foot drops on the trail every now and then or road gaps?

As far as air, it is whatever you run into on trail rides. I remember Noosa State Forrest had a long down hill fire road with drainage berms across it, you used to easily get a few feet clear under your wheels and travel a good six odd meters or more depending on your speed.

I would say though I do not recall coming across anything greater than probably a 3 - 4 foot drop off through the areas I used to ride, mainly Bunya.

[rainman]

I probably should sit on the fence for now ;). I've never been a Cannondale or Trek fan. I like Santa Cruz, Specialized, Giant, Scott. For a given price range it mostly comes down to personal experience, preference, and largely opinion really.

There are a few opportunities in Bunyaville now to get a bit of air, the largest being the road gap above the dam:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/4.jpg

[DiscoWeb]

Hi CJT,

If you're going to be jumping, or leaving the ground at all, say NO to the Lefty. I've seen one of them come in to the transition area at Kooralbyn during a 12 hour as a "Righty" (spun around 180 degrees). I really think for longevity you're best sticking with the tried and trusted standard fork design.

Viva la MTB!
James.

rainman,

I am a big guy, 110 - 112 kg on a good day so probably 115kg + with riding gear and a small pack on a normal day and have ridden a 140 mm carbon left on a cannondale prophet since 2005.

I have ridden technical rocky trails, fast flowing single track, 24 hr events and done up to 4 ft drops and whilst I consider myself to be a reasonably flowing rider have hit stuff hard enough to burp the front tubeless and have never once felt the lefty flex or been worried about it.

I would have 100% confidence in suggesting that a left would be up to pretty much everything bar full on dirt jumping and a downhill thrashing.

they take a few rides to get use too but you get lots of inquisitive looks from people which is kinda cool.

If you are an ex racer then the slightly more aggressive riding position of a scalpel would probably suit but I would go a Rize or something similar with a bit more front and rear travel for not much weight penalty. Get a lock out on the suspension and it would be a great commuter.

viva la MTB indeed

George

[rainman]

I am a big guy, 110 - 112 kg on a good day so probably 115kg + with riding gear and a small pack on a normal day and have ridden a 140 mm carbon left on a cannondale prophet since 2005.

I have ridden technical rocky trails, fast flowing single track, 24 hr events and done up to 4 ft drops and whilst I consider myself to be a reasonably flowing rider have hit stuff hard enough to burp the front tubeless and have never once felt the lefty flex or been worried about it.

That's good to know. CJT, it sounds like you shouldn't have too many worries then if you go down the Lefty path. The reviews on MTBR (http://www.mtbr.com/cat/older-categories-bikes/front-shock/cannondale/lefty/prd_351577_120crx.aspx)seem to be very favourable as well.

There you go - personal opinions should be taken with a grain of salt ;).


James.

[Scallops]

Yes, there can always be cased cited where such and such a bike broke and folks tend to then make a generalisation. Unless such events have a recoded history of happening frequently, it's heresay.

Many cyclists I've come across dislike Treks - I've been told my Madone is "the commodore of the peloton" by a fellow club member riding a Pegoretti...it is personal preference, but I personally know of quite a few Colnago, Pinnarello and other so called "exotic frames" failing in less than 10 years, and what happens then? You buy a new one. Trek on the other hand provide a new frame.

I'd be interested to hear why anyone might dislike a Trek 9.9 SSL if they ride one!

[rainman]

I've always seen Trek and Giant like Ford vs Holden. It depends on which side of the tracks you're from, which side you dress to, and/or whether you wipe back to front or front to back :cool:.

James.

[Scallops]

I've always seen Trek and Giant like Ford vs Holden. It depends on which side of the tracks you're from, which side you dress to, and/or whether you wipe back to front or front to back :cool:.

James.

Yeah - that's my point, many cyclists do...but the mystique of Santa Cruz frames may be less solidly felt if your frame breaks and you get no warranty!

Riding is believing, and to ride an OCLV MTB may change your mind. As I said to my Pegoretti riding friend, might be the commodore of the peloton, but when was the last time an Alpha won Bathurst? :D

[Rayngie]

I've always seen Trek and Giant like Ford vs Holden. It depends on which side of the tracks you're from, which side you dress to, and/or whether you wipe back to front or front to back :cool:.

James.

Never looked at it like that...but i suppose your right, i've never been interested in Treks at all, but have 2 Giants ( Reign 0, Anthem 29er ), but then again i'm not brand loyal, i also have a Cannondale Gemini, Voodoo Canzo 29er, and a KHS Solo One 29er...

[rainman]

Yeah - that's my point, many cyclists do...but the mystique of Santa Cruz frames may be less solidly felt if your frame breaks and you get no warranty!

Riding is believing, and to ride an OCLV MTB may change your mind. As I said to my Pegoretti riding friend, might be the commodore of the peloton, but when was the last time an Alpha won Bathurst? :D

If my Chameleon breaks now, after 6 years of being seriously spanked (I'm talking road-gaps-on-a-hard-tail-spanked), it will be framed and mounted above my bed, and I will buy a brand new one. That thing has put up with way more than it should have.

Without getting into an argument specifically about OCLV, I'm with you all the way on the carbon thing though. I ride a Scott Scale 30 as my XC bike and a Scott CR-1 as my road bike. I would use nothing but carbon for these purposes, but for trail trashing and downhill, I don't believe carbon is an option (unless you're talking Lahar or Santa Cruz V-10 Carbon, but that's just silly dollars).


James.

[CJT]

I went down to the local Cannondale dealer and have come up with two options;


Hardtail - Cannondale Flash Carbon 2 29'er (Carbon frame and lefty, Sram X9 groupset etc.)
Dually - Cannondale Scalpel Carbon 2 29'er (Same as above but XT groupset)
I would prefer SRAM over Shimano though. Going to take both for a ride as wll as a 26 Scalpel to get a feel for them.

Right now I am leaning more towards the hardtail 29'er.

[Scallops]

If my Chameleon breaks now, after 6 years of being seriously spanked (I'm talking road-gaps-on-a-hard-tail-spanked), it will be framed and mounted above my bed, and I will buy a brand new one....
James.

That is my point - you will have to. A very good friend of mine, you may know him, is a multi time Elite XC Qld Champion, and his Cannondale hardtail has been abused for more than 10 years without failure. But if and when it does, he'll get a new one at no charge. ;)

[CJT]

That's good to know. CJT, it sounds like you shouldn't have too many worries then if you go down the Lefty path. The reviews on MTBR (http://www.mtbr.com/cat/older-categories-bikes/front-shock/cannondale/lefty/prd_351577_120crx.aspx)seem to be very favourable as well.

There you go - personal opinions should be taken with a grain of salt ;).


James.

Looking over the bikes the frame and forks will easily take the punishment, especially seeing as at the most I have weighed 80kg when I was racing all the time.

Slightly lighter now but with less muscle and a bit more fat...:p

The only issue on these style of bikes is the rims, they are built for XC and obviously will not take the same beating.

[Scallops]

I went down to the local Cannondale dealer and have come up with two options;


Hardtail - Cannondale Flash Carbon 2 29'er (Carbon frame and lefty, Sram X9 groupset etc.)
Dually - Cannondale Scalpel Carbon 2 29'er (Same as above but XT groupset)
I would prefer SRAM over Shimano though. Going to take both for a ride as wll as a 26 Scalpel to get a feel for them.

Right now I am leaning more towards the hardtail 29'er.

Sounds like a good choice to me. I have never used SRAM - is there any functional advantage over Shimano XTR other than price?

[CJT]

Never looked at it like that...but i suppose your right, i've never been interested in Treks at all, but have 2 Giants ( Reign 0, Anthem 29er ), but then again i'm not brand loyal, i also have a Cannondale Gemini, Voodoo Canzo 29er, and a KHS Solo One 29er...

Just too throw my 2 cents in, obviously all personal preferance, however for road I would prefer an Eddy Merckx frame (if you can still find the handbuilt carbon laid ones) with SRAM Red groupset.

[rainman]

That is my point - you will have to. A very good friend of mine, you may know him, is a multi time Elite XC Qld Champion, and his Cannondale hardtail has been abused for more than 10 years without failure. But if and when it does, he'll get a new one at no charge. ;)

I don't know anyone who rides a Cannondale, and for good reason ;). Boom-tish!

Seriously, warranty isn't high on my agenda when I buy a bike. Performance is foremost. Sure if it fails in the first year or so you'd expect a replacement, but I really push my bikes beyond their limits and I don't expect a manufacturer to have to cough up because I'm an aggressive rider. I try to be a fair person. After ten years a performance bike (which is what we're talking about here isn't it?) is well and truly past it and "old tech" so I'd be updating it anyway. Perhaps I'm too trusting. I've only ever broken one frame, and that was a 10 year old 1982 Malvern Star Supermax - my first bike. It takes pride of place on the wall in my storeroom.


James.

[Scallops]

The University of Queensland bike shop conducted an exercise many years ago where they took frames from Trek, Colnago, Pinnarello and Merckx, all painted in a uniform fashion, and in a day when a frame was a more standard shape, and they invited members of the UQCC to ride each and try to pick the difference.

The results were interesting! The results indicated that rider's choices were more often emotive, rather than formed through any practical experience - because very few could pick the right maker to the right frame.

[CJT]

Sounds like a good choice to me. I have never used SRAM - is there any functional advantage over Shimano XTR other than price?

Some would say SRAM is not as smooth but I prefer to solid shifting feel of it and the price always helps too.

[rainman]

The University of Queensland bike shop conducted an exercise many years ago where they took frames from Trek, Colnago, Pinnarello and Merckx, all painted in a uniform fashion, and in a day when a frame was a more standard shape, and they invited members of the UQCC to ride each and try to pick the difference.

The results were interesting! The results indicated that rider's choices were more often emotive, rather than formed through any practical experience - because very few could pick the right maker to the right frame.

That doesn't surprise me at all. Please don't get the impression that I like Santa Cruz because I'm elitist. I actually like the way their bikes perform (tried Chameleon, Blur LT-C, Blur 4X, Heckler, Bullit - all awesome). I used to be anti-Giant until I rode a few Maestro bikes. I now have a Reign X1 as my FR/DH bike. I would have liked a Santa Cruz Nomad, but there was no point spending twice the money for essentially the same thing (oh and less warranty as it turns out).


Some would say SRAM is not as smooth but I prefer to solid shifting feel of it and the price always helps too.

I like SRAM, but to a point. I like their shifters and derailleurs, but I think Shimano chains and cassettes are better. In my experience Shimano chains are stronger, and Shimano cassettes shifter better. I'm running a SRAM PG-990 cassette on the Chameleon at the moment and I really don't like it. I normally run an XT cassette.


James.

[DiscoWeb]

That doesn't surprise me at all. Please don't get the impression that I like Santa Cruz because I'm elitist. I actually like the way their bikes perform (tried Chameleon, Blur LT-C, Blur 4X, Heckler, Bullit - all awesome). I used to be anti-Giant until I rode a few Maestro bikes. I now have a Reign X1 as my FR/DH bike. I would have liked a Santa Cruz Nomad, but there was no point spending twice the money for essentially the same thing (oh and less warranty as it turns out).


James.

When ever anyone who is new to riding asks me what they should buy I always say "get a giant". Bang for your bucks nothing comes close in my opinion. They always seem to be at least one and sometime 2 levels up on components compared to similarly priced bikes so hard to go wrong.

Once you fall in love with riding then you can search out a more bespoke solution that matches what you ride and your budget but otherwise go giant.

Now in saying that I have never owned a giant, had a lot of mates who have and have rarely heard a bad word spoken about them. first ride was a trek hard tail, then Jamis dually and the Cannnodale prophet , also have a trek road bike that I commute on.

George

[weeds]

didn't know there was this much science in buying a bike........

grab the best value for money you can afford and get out there riding.....

although not sure that i made the right choice but in saying that i happy enough.......

see ya on the tracks.......

i was so glad to see rainman pushing up a hill last night......didn't think i would ever see that, wish i had a camera ;):p

see ya on the track CJT

[rainman]

i was so glad to see rainman pushing up a hill last night......didn't think i would ever see that, wish i had a camera ;):p

:o Was that the re-veg area? I was "caring for the environment"! :)


James.

[Scallops]

didn't know there was this much science in buying a bike........

grab the best value for money you can afford and get out there riding.....



There isn't! That's my point. :)

Saying one model bike breaks because one was witnessed to at an event, or that this make or that make are akin to Fords or Holdens, is to me a little precious. :angel:

Whilst there are certainly very pickable differences between carbon and Aluminium frames (as to with Titanium and Steel), the distinction between makers is in my opinion, less pronounced (especially with Elite level equipment), so less important. But the one difference between makers that stands out in my experience is warranty. I'm happy to know that if my frame breaks in 2035, I'll get the latest and finest frame Trek make as a replacement - free.

It is a good idea to buy the best value bike within your chosen parameters. I did so, my bike was 45% below retail 'cos I've built a reputation with my shop, so it represented fantastic value for money. On that note, DiscoWeb's call about Giants is on the money. I've never had one either, but they are great value. I'm confident CJT will love his Cannondale - they make great bikes too and are also value for money. Haven't had one either, but!

And although I go totally with the "just get out and ride" call, I found when I had a Fisher bike that my enjoyment was much less than it is now on a different type of bike, so our parameter choice is important.

But unlike many cyclists I've met, I don't have a list of brands that I'm either a fan of or not - it's all good! :)

[Rayngie]

Just in case, if you are looking at building a bike up, i have a Niner Air 9 Hardtail in Scandium i'm wanting to get rid of , Frame only, it's an XL depending on your size,i'm 6'4., $450 bux

very good bike, great ride...i'm just not into hardtails, so swapped all the parts over to a Canzo frame to use as an all mountain basher

hopefully a pic will appear here:

[rainman]

Saying one model bike breaks because one was witnessed to at an event, or that this make or that make are akin to Fords or Holdens, is to me a little precious. :angel:

I still don't think you're really understanding where I'm coming from Dan.

I could write a paragraph on why I wouldn't buy a Lefty, but that would bore anyone who bothered to read it all to tears, so I gave one example.

I mentioned the Ford vs Holden thing for exactly that reason - it's a matter of opinion; there's nothing concrete in it. I have a list of frames that I like and would buy based on personal experience. Anything else is an unknown quantity to me. You're probably right about frame quality at a given price point being equal, but "probably", not "definitely". CJT is asking for advice so I can only advise on brands I know. The reason I specifically went out and bought a Giant Reign X without considering the equivalent Trek (or anything else) is because I knew exactly what it would do when I was slogging up a 25 degree climb or smashing it through a rock garden at 40 km/h, and I know Giant's quality from first hand experience. If someone was willing to lend me something else and let me take it out and trash it, I would welcome the opportunity, but they won't.


James.

[Scallops]

I still don't think you're really understanding where I'm coming from Dan.

I could write a paragraph on why I wouldn't buy a Lefty, but that would bore anyone who bothered to read it all to tears, so I gave one example.

I mentioned the Ford vs Holden thing for exactly that reason - it's a matter of opinion; there's nothing concrete in it. I have a list of frames that I like and would buy based on personal experience. Anything else is an unknown quantity to me. You're probably right about frame quality at a given price point being equal, but "probably", not "definitely". CJT is asking for advice so I can only advise on brands I know. The reason I specifically went out and bought a Giant Reign X without considering the equivalent Trek (or anything else) is because I knew exactly what it would do when I was slogging up a 25 degree climb or smashing it through a rock garden at 40 km/h, and I know Giant's quality from first hand experience. If someone was willing to lend me something else and let me take it out and trash it, I would welcome the opportunity, but they won't.


James.

Yeah, I did miss your point - sorry. I buy Treks for the same reason - it's all good. :)

PS - actually, the first Trek I bought (2002 5500) was after being measured up by Teshner for a custom...the geometry based on my parameters was identical to the Trek, I test rode it - felt great, cost half the price (and it was still FE!) bought it - never looked back.

[Scallops]

Out of interest James, why is it that you state you are not a fan of Treks and Cannondales, when you hint that you are not familiar with them in your last post? I ask this because you also say you can only offer advice on what you know.

[weeds]

If someone was willing to lend me something else and let me take it out and trash it, I would welcome the opportunity, but they won't.

James.

You can take mine for a spin........i doubt I will ride it anywhere near it's potential......not sure that I would be keen on your hardtail

[rick130]

I have a soft spot for Cannondales, oh, that's right, I ride one :angel:

My old LBS was a large Cannondale dealer and their workshop and tech back up was excellent, even though I did my own spannering.

Most of the boys there rode 'dales (although Macca wouldn't lower himself to ride one as he had a De Rosa)
They also serviced the team bikes of a well known Cannondale sponsored elite level Mtber.

I mentioned one day I was thinking of a roadie after getting sick of swapping slicks onto the mtb (Giant) I was offered an unbeatable deal on a NOS bike Cannondale Oz had in stock and wanted to get rid of.
Like Don's bike it was about the same reduction from list price so I had trouble resisting.

It's unfashionable now but I still love the old girl and she takes the sting out of the local goat tracks, er, bitumen as the front fork has 15mm of hydraulically damped travel.
So very late nineties/two thousand for the pavé :D

And any excuse for a pic.
Yes, I know it looks like a size or two too small but I have stupid long legs and a short body for my height, so needed the shorter top tube of a 58.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

Cannondale here to, but only an F6.

Don't ride it as much as I used to as I find the Ducati a bit faster! :p

Using Capitals, the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse or helping your uncle jack off a horse...

[CJT]

Just in case, if you are looking at building a bike up, i have a Niner Air 9 Hardtail in Scandium i'm wanting to get rid of , Frame only, it's an XL depending on your size,i'm 6'4., $450 bux

very good bike, great ride...i'm just not into hardtails, so swapped all the parts over to a Canzo frame to use as an all mountain basher

hopefully a pic will appear here:

Thanks for the offer but I am after a medium.

[Scallops]

Yes, Cannondale make damn fine bikes. I've never owned one but I've ridden several and they are the equal to anything else I've used.

I've also owned and ridden many high end Treks, and they too are very fine machines. Hopped of my Madone and onto a C40 years ago and I couldn't see what all the fuss was about!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Scallops]

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/9367/img0050eo.jpg

Great post, Rick - now that is pimped!

[rainman]

Out of interest James, why is it that you state you are not a fan of Treks and Cannondales, when you hint that you are not familiar with them in your last post? I ask this because you also say you can only offer advice on what you know.

Trek - I'm not a fan because I don't know them. I can't like something I don't know. As I've said, I see Giant and Trek as major competitors. I stick with Giant because I know them. Better the devil you know ;). I gained my respect for Giant because a number of the guys I ride with have them, meaning that I got to ride them, and I'm the one who services them.

Cannondale - it's a longer story. Back in the early 90s when I started mountain biking, Cannondale had one of the best reputations in the business. They were, apart from (believe it or not) Avanti, the only frame on the market that was heat treated after welding, rather than just being made from heat treated tubing. I bought an Avanti because I couldn't afford a Cannondale. I knew a lot of guys riding them and they seemed to be quite reliable apart from the odd failure, but around ten years ago they started to have all sorts of issues with cracking, earning them the name Crack'n'fail. This was a fairly pivotal point in my mountain biking career because it was when I could start to afford "more expensive" (I won't say "better quality" for fear of being shot down) bikes. I found Santa Cruz, and the rest is history.

Another major factor is that, due to my BMX background, I have always been a hardtail rider (the Giant Reign X1, bought last year is my first and so far only dual). Cannondale seems to do road and cross country bikes better than all mountain/freeride/downhill, and to my knowledge the only hardtails they currently offer are cross country. I need a strong, freeride type hardtail to suit my style. My road and cross country bikes are Scott because again, they are tried and tested by me (and my friends), and I get them at a good price.

I haven't suggested not to buy a Trek or a Cannondale. I said I would "sit out of the conversation" because I'm not a fan/don't know about them, and it seems CJT has his heart set on a Cannondale. I did suggest not going down the Lefty route because CJT mentioned a BMX background and being a "bit of a dirt jumper". You'll notice on the "bigger" Cannondale bikes like the Claymore and the Jekyll come with a standard platform fork; not a Lefty. I believe there's a reason for that.

I hope we haven't totally hijacked your thread CJT. Sorry if so....


James.

[CJT]

I hope we haven't totally hijacked your thread CJT. Sorry if so....

James.

Hey mate,

All good, I did not expect to get so many resposnses but as far as I am concerened, all are valid points and food for thought.

As you mentioned, yes I do have my mind set on a Dale. No real science to it other than I like the look of them, the feel of them and the handling of them, especially their XC bikes.

As you mention probably some of the best XC bikes you can buy.

[Grimace]

Interesting read guys. Nothing of use to add here, just wanted to say you should definitely look at the clip less thongs by Shimano.

I might organise a group buy and some GCLRO themed ones if it's as popular as I suspect :D

I predict, 2013, clipless thongs will be the rage for weight weenies :)

[Scallops]

Trek - I'm not a fan because I don't know them. I can't like something I don't know. As I've said, I see Giant and Trek as major competitors. I stick with Giant because I know them. Better the devil you know ;). I gained my respect for Giant because a number of the guys I ride with have them, meaning that I got to ride them, and I'm the one who services them.

Cannondale - it's a longer story. Back in the early 90s when I started mountain biking, Cannondale had one of the best reputations in the business. They were, apart from (believe it or not) Avanti, the only frame on the market that was heat treated after welding, rather than just being made from heat treated tubing. I bought an Avanti because I couldn't afford a Cannondale. I knew a lot of guys riding them and they seemed to be quite reliable apart from the odd failure, but around ten years ago they started to have all sorts of issues with cracking, earning them the name Crack'n'fail. This was a fairly pivotal point in my mountain biking career because it was when I could start to afford "more expensive" (I won't say "better quality" for fear of being shot down) bikes. I found Santa Cruz, and the rest is history.

Another major factor is that, due to my BMX background, I have always been a hardtail rider (the Giant Reign X1, bought last year is my first and so far only dual). Cannondale seems to do road and cross country bikes better than all mountain/freeride/downhill, and to my knowledge the only hardtails they currently offer are cross country. I need a strong, freeride type hardtail to suit my style. My road and cross country bikes are Scott because again, they are tried and tested by me (and my friends), and I get them at a good price.

I haven't suggested not to buy a Trek or a Cannondale. I said I would "sit out of the conversation" because I'm not a fan/don't know about them, and it seems CJT has his heart set on a Cannondale. I did suggest not going down the Lefty route because CJT mentioned a BMX background and being a "bit of a dirt jumper". You'll notice on the "bigger" Cannondale bikes like the Claymore and the Jekyll come with a standard platform fork; not a Lefty. I believe there's a reason for that.

I hope we haven't totally hijacked your thread CJT. Sorry if so....


James.

That's a pretty good answer, James - thanks. I hope you appreciate it was a sincere question I put, because although I accept the logic that you can't be a fan of something you don't know, it implied, at least to me, something else too! Happy to accept I was completely wrong here though. Wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last.

Sorry for the hijack myself too CJT, and I'll look forward to seeing some pics...

[rainman]

I do fall into the branding trap from time to time but I try my best to remain objective. It's good to be challenged about your decisions occasionally. It makes you stop and think about what your doing rather than just doing it. Thanks :cool:!


James

[rainman]

Interesting read guys. Nothing of use to add here, just wanted to say you should definitely look at the clip less thongs by Shimano.

I might organise a group buy and some GCLRO themed ones if it's as popular as I suspect :D

I predict, 2013, clipless thongs will be the rage for weight weenies :)

....and who invited the thong wearer?! :o:D

[CJT]

Interesting read guys. Nothing of use to add here, just wanted to say you should definitely look at the clip less thongs by Shimano.

I might organise a group buy and some GCLRO themed ones if it's as popular as I suspect :D

I predict, 2013, clipless thongs will be the rage for weight weenies :)

Thanks Grimace but I think I will stick with these ++ eggbeater11 pedals :: crankbrothers.com ++ (http://www.crankbrothers.com/pedals_eggbeater11.php) and some decent shoes.

I like my toes attached to my feet...:)

[rick130]

[snip]

I predict, 2013, clipless thongs will be the rage for weight weenies :)

:eek:

As one of the founding contributors to the famous 'Weight Weenies' list over ten years ago I'm stunned no one thought of this before ! :D

[rick130]

[snip]
but around ten years ago they started to have all sorts of issues with cracking, earning them the name Crack'n'fail.


Maybe over ten years ago ??
The CAAD 4 would've been out around 2000 and they seemed pretty reliable at the time, i think some earlier frames had some problems ?

The Raven had major BB cracking problems.
It would've been one of the first mass produced monocoque carbon frames (aluminium swing arm) and they tended to crack at the BB junction.

The field fix was to inject the BB area with a specific urethane foam.
Late production versions came from the factory already foamed and that pretty much cured that issue.
One of the mechanics from my LBS rode one and he was an ex BMX'er too and rode damned hard.
Gav's didn't give out but was the first one the shop foamed when Cannondale issued the recall.




My road and cross country bikes are Scott because again, they are tried and tested by me (and my friends), and I get them at a good price.



James.Good point, and the reason why I have a Giant and Cannondale.
They both came from the same shop as I was well looked after at and after the sale and bought a cheap Apollo girls bike/cruiser for SWMBO there too.

FWIW I've read on RBR that the new aluminium CAAD frames are manufactured in Taiwan and the fit/finish and QC is better than the 'Handmade in the USA' frames.

[isuzurover]

:eek:

As one of the founding contributors to the famous 'Weight Weenies' list over ten years ago I'm stunned no one thought of this before ! :D

A mate has shimano clipless sandals.

[rick130]

A mate has shimano clipless sandals.

It was a tongue in cheek reference to any of the blokes obsessed with paring down the weight of their bikes, but the sandals sound like a great idea for me for just riding into town to the café.

[CJT]

Well I found my new favourite bike shop yesterday.

The only problem is that instead of not many choices I now have too many.

Speaking to the guys in the shop and pretty much whatever you want they will do.

Dont like the groupset, no problems, we will swap it...

Want to upgrade the brakes, sure...

Want a Lefty fork on a Santa Cruze frame, we can do that...

Oh, and if I was to get another hardtail they have a sweet titanium frame in there too...

So I am now trying to decide on either the Cannondale Scalpel or a Santa Cruze Blur XC or TR carbon frame with either Sram XO or XX groupset front to rear including hydraulic discs.

I love the look of the Scalpel and the weight, under 9.0kg + my Ayup lights front and rear but it is a XC race bike.

Whereas the Santa Cruz is more in the middle of a XC and All Mountain setup and would take more punsihment.

Decisions, decisions....:)

[rainman]

Maybe over ten years ago ??
The CAAD 4 would've been out around 2000 and they seemed pretty reliable at the time, i think some earlier frames had some problems ?

It's quite possible. I do drink a lot of homebrew, so........


James.

[rainman]

So I am now trying to decide on either the Cannondale Scalpel or a Santa Cruze Blur XC or TR carbon frame with either Sram XO or XX groupset front to rear including hydraulic discs.


Well we all know what I would pick :D!

What are the brakes?


James.

[CJT]

Well we all know what I would pick :D!

What are the brakes?


James.

Lol...yesterday I was set on the Scalpel (I found an awesome deal on this one SCALPEL TEAM (http://www.cannondale.com/2012/bikes/mountain/full-suspension/scalpel/scalpel-team-21369)) but today I am leaning more towards the Santa Cruz...

Brakes would match the groupset, so either SRAM XX or XO depending on build level I decide on.

[rick130]

From what i've read recently, current XTR brakes spank Avid/Sram, but being an inveterate weight weenie I'd go for Formula :D (says the man using original Hayes mag hydro's, that's how old my bike is :eek:)

[CJT]

From what i've read recently, current XTR brakes spank Avid/Sram, but being an inveterate weight weenie I'd go for Formula :D (says the man using original Hayes mag hydro's, that's how old my bike is :eek:)

I have heard the same about the new XTR brakes but I would prefer to keep it all the same group.

As far as weight goes, I specced up the bike at lunch time today with the bike shop with final weight coming in at approximately 9.2kg - 9.5kg.

I would say that is not bad for a bike with 130mm travel front and rear...:)

[DiscoWeb]

I have heard the same about the new XTR brakes but I would prefer to keep it all the same group.

As far as weight goes, I specced up the bike at lunch time today with the bike shop with final weight coming in at approximately 9.2kg - 9.5kg.

I would say that is not bad for a bike with 130mm travel front and rear...:)

Sounds like the Blur got the nod as i do no think the Scalpel has 130 mm of travel.

Great choice always loved Santa Cruz just never got around to buying one.

George

[Scallops]

I lurv my 2011 Cross Country full XTR group - it is slick. Looking forward to pics, CJT!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Well as you might have noticed I've been a bit quiet around here of late. :wasntme: I've been doing a bit of biking. :)

All road so far but I was looking at a bit of a go into mountain biking. I've got a really good bike shop that is a giant dealer so I was going to get one of these puppies. (http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-au/bikes/model/anthem.x.29er/9712/50966/)

As has been said so much of it is all just personal preference. I've had a good run with giant and the bike shop offers sensational backup.

That particular bike seems to be getting pretty good reviews and is good value for money.

[Rayngie]

Captain,

as a devotee of 29ers,() i have three of them! ), the Anthem 29er being one , i can say they are very good...can't beat them for value for money, i've had a blast on mine, very solid to ride, even for a clydesdale like me..

you won't be disapointed with one

Ray

[rainman]

:( Oh no. The 29er enters......

29ers are momentum machines. Because of the larger rotating mass they are better for long distance/firetrail type rides. Also, the slightly higher centre of gravity and gyroscopic momentum means that they don't change direction as well so if you're planning of smashing single tracks a 26 inch would be better.

Still, 29ers are all the rage at the moment. It's going to be interesting to see if the popularity remains, or if they overtake 26ers.


James.

[Tombie]

:( Oh no. The 29er enters......

29ers are momentum machines. Because of the larger rotating mass they are better for long distance/firetrail type rides. Also, the slightly higher centre of gravity and gyroscopic momentum means that they don't change direction as well so if you're planning of smashing single tracks a 26 inch would be better.

Still, 29ers are all the rage at the moment. It's going to be interesting to see if the popularity remains, or if they overtake 26ers.


James.

Dammit... 29s... Can we retrofit smaller rims and higher profile tyres... :wasntme:

[DiscoWeb]

All road so far but I was looking at a bit of a go into mountain biking. I've got a really good bike shop that is a giant dealer so I was going to get one of these puppies. (http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-au/bikes/model/anthem.x.29er/9712/50966/)


That particular bike seems to be getting pretty good reviews and is good value for money.

A good mate of mine recently got onto an Anthem 29r after his Santa Cruz Blur cracked and the warranty turned to dust.

Loves the 29er, he is a roadie who does a couple of mtb events each year, mostly 24 hr style events and he loves the Anthem, seems like a very popular choice, enjoy.

George

[Captain_Rightfoot]

:( Oh no. The 29er enters......

29ers are momentum machines. Because of the larger rotating mass they are better for long distance/firetrail type rides. Also, the slightly higher centre of gravity and gyroscopic momentum means that they don't change direction as well so if you're planning of smashing single tracks a 26 inch would be better.

Still, 29ers are all the rage at the moment. It's going to be interesting to see if the popularity remains, or if they overtake 26ers.


James.

That's interesting mate.. it appears to be a topic of fierce debate amongst the MTB crew. :)

It seems to be a swings and roundabout sort of thing? We were test riding them... I could probably ride an xl but the shop reckons to stick with large to keep it more manoeuvrable. The 29er surfed over huge washouts which impressed me (roadie).

I take on board the bigger heavier wheel thing, but they would also loose less momentum in each pothole which is not something roadies have to deal with. We would probably tubeless the bike as it's all tubeless ready and that should shed a quite a bit of weight just there.

It's a bit hard to get specifics on the weights of the wheels but it would appear the 29er tyres are 40 grams heavier than their 26" equivalent. The bike we're looking at is about 11.2kg which is apparently quite light for a dual suspension alloy bike. Are you saying that's a heavy bike? How much lighter would the equivalent 26er be?

[Rayngie]

I have a 29er Anthem x, and a 26er Reign 0, the Anthem is lighter, both are standard trim ex Giant, by around 150gm's...not much when i weigh 120kg's!!

I ride Manly Dam 3-4 times a week, it's line ball between 29 & 26" as for time on track, they are both different, the 26" changes direction quicker, the 29" rolls over rocks, tree roots etc better, the 26" loves getting air, the 29" dose'nt, horses for courses really.

Just last weekend, i rode around with a mate on a SC Blur, we decided on doing a 'hot' lap before the rain, i was on the Anthem, it's every bit as quick around the dam as the Blur ( I'm a big boy but i race quick )...nothing in it.

29er's will take over from 26er's, go to any MTB XC race and you'll see that, certainly not for DH and Freeride though i think...but the bike company's are working on it.

Ray

[weeds]

I ride Manly Dam 3-4 times a week, it's line ball between 29 & 26" as for time on track, they are both different, the 26" changes direction quicker, the 29" rolls over rocks, tree roots etc better, the 26" loves getting air, the 29" dose'nt, horses for courses really.


a mate of mine rides manly dam regularly........havent done a loop yet, maybe next time i visit.....

[rainman]

It's a bit hard to get specifics on the weights of the wheels but it would appear the 29er tyres are 40 grams heavier than their 26" equivalent. The bike we're looking at is about 11.2kg which is apparently quite light for a dual suspension alloy bike. Are you saying that's a heavy bike? How much lighter would the equivalent 26er be?

It's really hard to give exact figures because we have to compare equivalent level components and purposes. Comparing an Anthem X 29er to a Reign 0 26er isn't going to work because the Anthem is a cross country bike and the Reign, all mountain.

If we take just a Mavic rim - the 26" XM719 is 50 grams lighter than the equivalent TN719. Add that to your slightly higher tyre weight, bigger tubes (or more latex if you're tubeless), longer spokes, multiple that lot by two (for the two wheels), and then longer fork legs, etc, etc I guess you could be around half a kilogram give or take. It's not a lot, but we're talking rotating and unsprung mass so the effect of the weight on handling is amplified.

As Rayngie says, the large wheels are better at rolling and maintaining momentum over small obstacles and divots/ruts/etc (one of the reasons behind running 33s or 35s on your Land Rover), and also maintaining momentum in general. It's the same concept as a flywheel.

As you say - it's swings and roundabouts, personal preference and riding style. I don't have a 29er but I occasionally take my 20 inch BMX out on the trail just to remind myself of the differences and make myself appreciate suspension :twisted:.


James.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

OK guys... thanks for your help! Swings and roundabouts. :)

If Santa loves me we will see what's under the tree on the 25th. ;) :twisted:

I'll keep you posted. :)

[CJT]

So I have not built up the Santa Cruz yet, that will be next Christmas I think.

But I did just buy this :)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/582.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/583.jpg

I believe the specs are as follows;

Frame: Full carbon
Fork: Lefty carbon XLR 100mm travel
Rims: DT Swiss XCR 1.5
Crank: SRAM BB30
Groupset: Shimano XTR
Brake: Avid Elixir XO Carbon
Weight: 9kg as shown, I weighed it at the shop.

[Marmoset]

That's very nice.... :D

I'm riding a Rocky Mountain Vertex Carbon hardtail off road at present. It's been superseded by a 29er version this year - I love my RM's for the way they change direction on the twisty stuff so I'd be interested to see if RM have managed to keep that element of the way they rdie with the switch to bigger wheels.

[magilla]

The 26 v 29er debate is similar to what sort of tyres should I get for my 4b, never ending and with many opinions.

I now ride a Giant XTC 29er, at this stage I wont be going back to a 26.

As with the wheel weight question I got a set of TWE wheels and dropped 430g over the Giant wheelset , I think I paid $750 delivered for them

Would I would by a Cannondale......No. I had a Rize 5 POS, flogged out the suspension and then got really crappy assistance from Cannondale

[isuzurover]

I borrowed a 29er for a ride in brisbane. It was a nice bike, and climbed very well, but felt a lot less stable on downhill and fast corners, which I put down to the higher CofG...

[magilla]

Get down low and go go go. I use mine when I am teaching skills lessons, and just have to get a little lower in the corners