Looking to buy a D4 - couple of questions

[Ape_Man]

Hi everyone,

I was given a D4 TDV6 for the weekend to test and my wife and I have fallen in love.

But it is not unconditional.

I am pretty tall and broad (hence the Ape_Man nickname haha) and my questions pertain to the front seats and what modifications can be done. I have done multiple searches and couldn't find any answers.

The short of it is that I need just a little more space. In both seats I could use an extra inch of leg room. In the drivers seat about a cm in height and in the passenger seat about an inch in height.

So the questions are.

Do electric seats give any extra space over the manual ones?

Has anyone tried to modify their seats or gone to an auto trimmer to shave a bit off the padding?

Will doing this affect anything like warranty or air bag deployment?

I asked these questions to the dealer and he said he wasn't sure if the electric seat gave any more space and that there should be no modification to the seats done at all.

He could be right, but he hasn't been the most knowledgeable sales guy regarding the D4. An example was he said there was no dual battery systems available..

Hope someone out there has some experience with the seats.

If I have any more questions I will post follow ups to this.

Regards

Justin

[roamer]

Hi Justin
Didn't the dealer have a D4 with electric seats for you to try ??
Dual battery, probably none LR recommend.
If you modified the seat you would kiss seat warranty good bye

Cheers Ken

[Ape_Man]

Thanks Ken,

the dealer only has 2 in stock and both had the manual seats. I think I could live without seat warranty just to get the awesomeness of the rest of the car.

The dual battery situation is strange. Toyota and Nissan locally both are happy to get dual battery systems installed for you, I would have though LR would be the same.

Being a big fella makes car buying really depressing :(. I want an off-roader and my choices are (in order of preference) only D4, Jeep Grand Cherokee, LC200 and the Patrol. I currently have the Nissan and would love to have a look at the new model but I think the second coming will happen before it goes on sale here in Oz. Other than that I just can't bring myself to replace my GU with a GU that has rear air vents. But I do love it and if it is my final option I will just do it as at least I know what I am getting.

The cruiser is just to blah for crazy money. I want some niceties for my money as this is going to be, by far, the most expensive car I have ever purchased. I can't get the VX as the sunroof destroys headroom.

The Jeep has very little in the way of after market mods at the minute. It really needs a rear wheel carrier as the spare being inside isn't really ideal for touring. It also doesn't have a cargo barrier available.

I love the Disco, just need to make sure that I am going to be perfectly happy and comfortable if I take the plunge. My other current car is a Ford Territory and I hated that 3 weeks after purchase as on my fist long drive I found the front seat to not be as supportive as I would have liked. Nearly 3 years later and getting trade in prices and I loathe it even more haha.

Sorry for the rant, I needed to get it out of the system.

[Tombie]

Quite amusing isnt it..

It is against the Law to install non-OEM approved products to a vehicle before delivery.. (I have a copy of the relevant data somewhere)...

As for the seats... Mate... How big are you?

I'm Long legged, tall and broad (in most dimensions) and think its great... And plenty of head room :cool:

I'm surprised you struggle to be honest!

[Ape_Man]

Hi Tombie,

I'm not that tall, just on 196 cms. With the seat all the way down and back my left knee is pretty jammed into the corner. There is a bit of give, one more centimeter would be nice.

There is about 1cm above my head in my normal driving position. My hair kept rubbing against the roof and it was driving me nuts so I tried lying the seat back a bit more but then my shoulder was the problem. Whilst not really tall, I am really broad. Once I lean back a bit I am jammed too hard up against the pillar. It is too uncomfortable and I would probably cramp after a few minutes. So I sit a bit straighter so only part of my right arm is up against the pillar, but then I get annoyed by the roof. To get an idea, with the door open my right shoulder sticks out almost exactly to the width of the cars body.

This is a problem I have with nearly all cars. Some vehicles, like a Defender, I can't close the door without leaning far to the left so I don't break a collar bone.

It does make for nice stable left hand cornering though.

It would be lovely to be able to just go to a car lot and say 'I'll take that one thanks' if only I was a wee bit smaller. I sometimes dream of a world where my choices were as vast as 'regular' people.

I just want to buy a car that I love for once, rather than a car that fits me. I don't suppose the government has tax subsidies for people with limited choices?

That's an idea. I am forming a new minority group. :D

[roamer]

Tombie... for crying out loud don't upset him,
he's extra large and goes by the name of "Ape Man",
you must be insane

[oldsalt]

Ape man - you could always go the "aftermarket" seats such as Recaro ... they are very supportive and a good bit "flatter" in their design (I think) - look up the importer and give 'em a bell for details (check out their N-joy series)... I'd be surprised if they couldn't fit you into the D4 a little bit better than standard seats. Worth a try anyway....
cheers

[Thinkbig]

Hi Justin

Well I’m 198cm (6’6”) and carrying way too much condition (wrong side of 20 stone) and I find the D4 with manual seats the most comfortable & roomy car I’ve had. I assume you jacked the seat down as low as it would go and adjusted the steering column up. I know after my wife drives (she is 5’2”) I have to make quite a few adjustments to fit in properly. Also, I find reclining the seat a fair bit adds more room. I have never had an issue with headroom which makes me wonder whether you had the seat jacked down all the way.

I do have problems sitting in the passenger seat though - definitely not enough room. I tried to solve this problem by driving all the time - but this failed to pass by the wife.

My biggest problem was with the pedals. I have size 16 feet and with certain boots I catch the brake pedal when shifting to and from the accelerator. I tried to get the pedals adjusted through the dealer, but they would need to get an engineering certificate to move them - so I just adjusted my driving style (and got new boots - much cheaper that way).

I can’t fit into a Territory very well either. I would suggest going back to the LR dealer and trying another D4 and playing around with the seats again - could have been a problem with the seats in the example you tried.

Best of luck - you won’t find a better vehicle if you can fit.
Chris

[Ferret]

Ape man - you could always go the "aftermarket" seats such as Recaro ... they are very supportive and a good bit "flatter" in their design (I think) - look up the importer and give 'em a bell for details (check out their N-joy series)... I'd be surprised if they couldn't fit you into the D4 a little bit better than standard seats. Worth a try anyway....
cheers

The D4 has air bags built into the seats, how would you go insurance wise with Recaro seats?

[oldsalt]

Don't know - I was just offering some suggestions re seat sizing ... I would think you'd be O.K. if you notified your insurance company of the "change" though ... I'm sure somebody on here will be able to offer opinions on this.
cheers

[Ape_Man]

Thanks for all the input.

Thinkbig,

I tried both cars at the dealers and they adjusted exactly the same. Like I said earlier I am really broad so laying the seat back isn't an option as I am either hard up against the pillar or leaning over the center console. I am carrying a few extra kilos too but back in my glory days as a younger man playing a heap of sport my playing weight was 120kg (around 19 stone). So weighing a good bit more now I take up a fair chunk of horizontal space.

The dealer is going to let me know when an electric seat vehicle comes in so I can compare. Fingers crossed as I really like the car.

I'll let you all know how it goes.

Justin

[Tombie]

I am carrying a few extra kilos too but back in my glory days as a younger man playing a heap of sport my playing weight was 120kg (around 19 stone). So weighing a good bit more now I take up a fair chunk of horizontal space.

<snip>

I'll let you all know how it goes.

Justin

I feel your pain.... ;) Although you are a little bit taller... (I'm 6'1") :)

You wont regret the D4 if you can make it all work for you...

[Thinkbig]

Oh well - at least you will be able to save money on a winch, sounds like you will be able to pull the bugger out with your bare hands:D

[DiscoWeb]

Thanks for all the input.

I am carrying a few extra kilos too but back in my glory days as a younger man playing a heap of sport my playing weight was 120kg (around 19 stone). So weighing a good bit more now I take up a fair chunk of horizontal space.




I am a mere midget at 5'11 and 115kg and find the D3 I drive very comfortable.

I know that was absolutely no help to you Ape_Man but it makes me feel much better :angel: !

George

[Ape_Man]

haha, love some of the comments.

I bet a lot of you are like me and don't realise how many people consider you a 'friend' until it comes time to help them move house. :D

[superquag]

Could be worse....

My Classic has the electric seat controls mounted (by a sadist) hard next to the seat squab....

The child-bride has, like myself, experienced some 'Capital Growth' of her assets, and when she first tried out the seating....it started moving.

There is no delicate way of saying that one's bottom now spreads beyond the seat and is also resting upon the buttons..... and I must confess, I smiled as I told her:p

- She has'nt sat in it since.

[MartyJB]

Hey Ape Man,
I think you missed Thinkbig's point; There's up and down on the seat not just laying it back. I'm 201cm(6'7") and have no issue with the head room. Double check you pushed the lever down to lower the seat, this does reduce leg room somwhat - sitting higher give you more.
(I'm a mere 100kg so don't have any shoulder width issues and my boots are only size 14 so no issue on the pedals...)

However if there is still a head room issue I can assure you a LC200 will not be any good. I'd never have to use the sunvisor if I drove one and would regularly have to duck my head down a little to see further up the road - the windscreen is far too low! Also GXL only option as VX has a sunroof, then I can't fit at all.
My father in law has a Patrol and they do seen to have lots of head room.

Best of luck big guy!
Marty

[MartyJB]

BTW I tend to get recruited to help paint ceilings, especially "mates" without ladders!!

[Bardizzo]

Is any one else dying to see a photo of Ape Man/the biggest man in the world????

I m 6'4" and 17 st, a mere child in comparison:D:D

I have no issues with head or leg room.

Hope you get it sorted, it is an awesome car.

Dave

[oldsalt]

Is any one else dying to see a photo of Ape Man/the biggest man in the world????



As I'm in Melbourne all I have to do is go outside and look to the North (Albury) and I can see him moving about ... heh heh ... :D
you 'gotta have a thick skin to be on this forum.

[Ape_Man]

Well after a heap of soul searching, deep thinking and much amusement thanks to all you guys I have made a decision.

I have decided to stay in the Patrol camp. Ordered a new Patrol and thanks to the price difference I am also getting it fully decked out at the local ARB. Winch, snorkel, drawers, suspension lift, dual battery, full bar work, roof rack and a set of 33 Cooper STT's. It is going to be a touring beast!

Thanks for all the comments, they have been enlightening and the last few have actually made me laugh out loud.

I must say that I am a little sad about missing out on a new Disco but am very excited to be getting a vehicle that will be fully prepared for the coming zombie apocalypse.

I'll probably lurk around here as this is one of the friendliest and funniest online communities I've been to.

Cheers to all and sorry about the Patrol

[Disco4SE]

Well after much soul searching, deep thinking and much amusement that to all you guys I have made a decision.

I have decided to stay in the Patrol camp. Ordered a new Patrol and thanks to the price difference I am also getting it fully decked out at the local ARB. Winch, snorkel, drawers, suspension lift, dual battery, full bar work, roof rack and a set of 33 Cooper STT's. It is going to be a touring beast!

Thanks for all the comments, they have been enlightening and the last few have actually made me laugh out loud.

I must say that I am a little sad about missing out on a new Disco but am very excited to be getting a vehicle that will be fully prepared for the coming zombie apocalypse.

I'll probably lurk around here as this is one of the friendliest and funniest online communities I've been to.

Cheers to all and sorry about the Patrol
Hi Ape Man,
Haven't made any comments as yet, but like you, have enjoyed others.
Have mates with Patrols. Good strong vehicles, but what a crap engine...............sorry, just had to say it. They are so underpowered compared to the Disco. However, if you are happy mate, that's all that matters.
Happy motoring. May see you in the rear view mirror one day :)
Cheers, Craig

[Piddler]

Good luck with the 3 litre hand grenade


Cheers

[Stuart02]

Enjoy the wealth of readily available spares and aftermarket accessories, too!
And the straight faces on outback mechanics when you pull in :)

[Ape_Man]

Yeah, the 3.0 is pretty disappointing in the power stakes. No argument there.

But my current one has done 153,000 kms in 5 and a bit years with nothing more than handbook servicing and 3 sets of tyres.

It's funny how perception is. On the Patrol forum Disco's are derided for their reliability issues. Anything manufactured will have a percentage of duds crawl out and sometimes mud sticks far longer than necessary. The 3.0 CRD's have been pretty bulletproof since day one.

Other than the 3.0 issue of days long past I think most would agree that a Patrol is about as bush proof as a 4x4 can get. The fact I could get it with a heap of quality touring gear was the sweetener.

I guess we could argue until blue in the face about who has the best 4x4 but the Patrol was the right fit for me at this stage. For the kind of touring and off road trips I do the big Nissan is right for me.

Well, that is what I'm telling myself :D

[Thinkbig]

Congratulations on your purchase of the Patrol. As you say this is the vehicle that suits you - both for size and purpose. We bought our D4 mainly as a tow vehicle and are delighted in it's ability and comfort, therefore it suits our purpose. I would suggest most brands produce good reliable vehicles these days. Most people I talk to in our travels are usually happy with there vehicles including Patrols, Cruisers, Pajeros, Jeeps and Discos. Plus having such competition creates better vehicles with improved safety and performance. Plus at the end of the day the vehicle is only a conduit for the pleasure we have from enjoying this great country of ours.

Best of luck with your journeys.
Chris

[DI5CO]

I still want to see a pic of you :lol2::lol2:

[Stuart02]

Don't worry, we love our Discos, but as I'm sure you know, other than reliability issues with the very early (10+ years old) 3.0 diesels, the Patrol has nothing to prove... And seriously, having lived in Darwin, there were times I wished I simply had a Troll or a Cruiser! Enjoy mate.

[superquag]

The most important part of a car is its seat... and how comfortable/ergonomic/accessable is the whole setup. If you are'nt comfortable drving it.......:mad:

- I virtually threw away a NEW v8 Holden due to defective seats... (Test car was totally differant feel etc from what got delivered) - Traded it in on a VW Passat, with surprisingly comfortable chairs... Put a Renault 16 seat in, and drove it for over 500,000km

From my own observations, ( Defs 110, 130, D2 diesel, and two RR Classics,) I reckon you need to be a particular size, shape and flexibility , before you can be "trained" to like the LR seats and positioning.

Like fungus, the Classic is growing on me, though losing a several of my 117 kilos would'nt go astray...

I've still got my '89 Pajero, 'cos every now and again its nice to drive a full-size (interior) car with a use-able boot space and substantial headroom...

James in Gosnells

1995 Classic Range Rover, with working air suspension....and not much head-room at all!

[Basil135]

Hi Justin

Well I’m 198cm (6’6”) and carrying way too much condition (wrong side of 20 stone) .... I know after my wife drives (she is 5’2”) I have to make quite a few adjustments to fit in properly.


Ok, am I the ONLY one that picked up on this??? :o

Sorry Apeman, but I wanna see a pic of Chris & his Mrs..... :eek:

[roamer]

Basil me and the missus have a similar size difference
This is our honeymoon photo.

Cheers Ken

[Thinkbig]

Ok, am I the ONLY one that picked up on this??? :o

Sorry Apeman, but I wanna see a pic of Chris & his Mrs..... :eek:I'd love to oblige with a photo, but my camera doesn't have a wide angle lens that can fit us both in at the same time:) Also, I married so far out of my league that I wouldn't want to embarrass my long suffering wife.
Chris

[stevo68]

Tombie... for crying out loud don't upset him,
he's extra large and goes by the name of "Ape Man",
you must be insaneYou've obviously never seen a pic of Tombie ;).......just a sideways glance from him and I'd poop myself :eek:. Just glad he's one of my online buddies :D,

Regards

Stevo

[eddomak]

Basil me and the missus have a similar size difference
This is our honeymoon photo.

Cheers Ken

Oh no!:eek:
Where is the "No thanks" button... :p

[Ape_Man]

OMG Ken. My eyes, my sweet eyes.

If I take a roofie now will I forget that

[Ape_Man]

Well, after 3 years, I'm back.

But this time it's not necessarily for a D4.

Since buying the Patrol for some touring, my wife decided to pop out another child just as the first ones neck was ready for some serious off-roading. We have also moved from Albury and the high country to the opposite in Mildura.

Whilst I am still keeping the Patrol, I (insert expletive with an ing on the end) love it, we would like something a little more luxurious for our commutes to Melbourne which is about a gazillion hours away with 2 little kids.

So, we are looking at a D3 HSE with all the bells or an early D4 SE. There are some great D3's available at the minute with under 130K on the clock.

I love my gadgets and am leaning to the 3 but is my heart pulling me the wrong way? I'm also about to turn 40, so a mid-life crisis may be happening and I may need to re-evaluate the extra inches I think these gadgets will add to my, umm... shoe size.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

[RobA]

Best thing to do if you are contemplating replacement seats is check with your insurer in the first instance. Yes Recaro can supply and fit versions with side airbags. I can tell you that in Adelaide I have been quoted $6k to fit one due to the electrical and mechanical certifications required. This is a serious, in a legal sense, change to the vehicle and will most likely get your insurer a little tense but certainly given your situation worth a try

Regards

Rob

[Ape_Man]

Thanks Rob

This time, as it is going to be the secondary car, I'm not worried about any seat modifications. If it becomes an issue I will just let the wife drive it and I will be chauffeured around.

Maybe put a kid in the third row and watch some movies in the middle. Which soundS like a great plan.

[shorty]

Hi Ape-man,

I have a tdv6 D3 and it really is a very similar car to an early D4. The main differences are a more modern and sleeker dash layout and some 'tweaks' to the exterior detailing like lights etc.

I actually prefer the look of the D3 so have never regretted not going for the D4. I did however get a D4 tow hitch receiver as I just couldn't stand the stupidity of the original D3 plough! I'm sure either car will do the job nicely...

Happy hunting.

Matt

[LandyAndy]

Mid life Crisis?????
The V8 brigade will be all over you:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
They are cheap,use less fuel than the V6 petrol on the type of driving you mention,and sound great.They also miss a few of the early V6 petrol/diesel engine problems.
You will buy alot of petrol with the difference in purchase price of HSE TDV6 and HSE V8 petrol;);););)
ENJOY
Andrew

[Mossy]

""The most important part of a car is its seat... and how comfortable/ergonomic/accessable is the whole setup. If you are'nt comfortable drving it.......:angry: "


Just my 2 bobs worth, I thoroughly agree with this statement.
And for me, the car with the most comfortable seating position is our 1969 +8 Morgan, maybe not so good in the summer sun or winter rain, but seating position is spot on. :D


Cheers Mossy

[Ape_Man]

Thanks for the sage words Mossy.

We are currently on our way to Adelaide to buy something. Added a couple of RRS to the list of things to see. Maybe the seating is slightly different.

So by the end of today I will have a new second hand car under contract. Unless a dealer rubs me the wrong way and sets of a hissy fit. Then I'll just find a pub with Coopers on tap.

Wish me luck and patience.

[Ape_Man]

Well, we did it. Today we bought this

2009 Land Rover Discovery 3 HSE 09MY Sports Automatic (http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Land-Rover-Discovery-3-2009/AGC-AD-16704852)

Very happy now. We looked at a few models today and the electric seats in the HSE gave me a bit more room to move compared to the D4s in my price range.

Got a great deal that included shipping the D3 to my door in Mildura.

[Mike Jarvis]

Congratulations, hope you get a good run out of it and enjoy it as much as we enjoy ours.

[Meken]

The link tells me the car is no longer available (I guess because you bought it) ;)

[Ape_Man]

That's no good.

We travelled back from Adelaide today, was hoping to download the images from CarSales when I got home.

Alas, not to be.

[Ape_Man]

We took delivery today!

Car is bloody magnificent!

I do have 1 teeny issue. Car was advertised with a reverse camera, yet there is none. I was stupid and trusted the advertisement.

After test driving a few I just assumed they had what they advertised. As this was actually the last one I drove I just tested the drive rather than everything.

I sent the dealer the link that is still on carsales as well as a screen shot. They were brilliant to deal with so I hope they help us out. Part of our deal was delivery from Adelaide to Mildura and we came and picked up the car. If they are hard to deal with from now I am hoping to use the money they have saved on the delivery to put a camera in. Originally I told them that I would like something for saving them the money but they were so good to deal with that I was happy to let them keep the cash as a goodwill gesture.

Then I got the car and found the camera missing. I called car sales to make sure the original ad was safe. It is. Any changes made after the sale will be noted.

The link is still up but only works on desktop and not mobile. If you request the desktop site it will show up.

Anyway, I know I have probably signed away any rights but put this up as a warning that it doesn't matter how many cars you drive, test everything that is advertised.

Still love the car.

Cheers.

http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Land-Rover-Discovery-3-2009/AGC-AD-16704852

[Epic pooh]

I don't think that would have come with a reversing camera (could be wrong - sure an my09 owner will come along and correct me if so).

On my vehicle (similar spec but older), if you want a reversing camera on the nav screen, you need to install a GVIF (and then you can have a range of other things display including surround cameras) - not cheap. You can go the reverse camera in the mirror but then you loose homelink (if fitted) and the auto dip (if fitted).

[Ape_Man]

Thanks Mick,

that makes me feel a whole lot better this morning. Last night I felt slightly abused.

[Tassiefender]

G'day Justin,


I here you. I am 196 cm and own a D4 (TDV6 - manual leather seats). Although I initially found the position a little cramped, after a Defender it was still a significant improvement! It actually took a few weeks of experimentation to get the position right, and finally I'm there. I have the seat on the low setting with the back-rest inclined a little further than 'normal' in some other makes. After some trial by error, I'm now happy. I wouldn't advise changing seats though - warranty would probably be voided, but you never know what other electronic demons you may introduce!


The dual battery solution is another one entirely. I toyed with a permanent fixture (you can buy tailor-made solutions from Greame Cooper automotive in Sydney or possibly Mulgo Expeditions). But wiring etc presented some further headaches. In the end, I went for an ArkPak with a hard wired plug in the rear cargo space for re-charging. It is a discreet unit with built-in inverter, cig ports and USB, but it can easily be lifted out to carry to campsite and/or transferred to boat / other car etc etc. Couldn't be happier. Best thing is that it can fit up to a 130 ah deep-cycle battery versus to smaller unit in the engine bay.


Also with your D4, see if you can get one with 18 inch rims. I opted for the 18s when the dealer said he had some out the back, versus the 19 inch standard. As a result, vehicle looks the same in shiny alloys, but is shod in LT construction Mickey Thompson STZ (265/65/18). Huge improvement.


Hope this helps


Nick

[BMKal]

Looks good Ape Man. Hope you enjoy it.

[JBM770]

Are the Range Rovers any wider?
Rolls Royce Shadows from the 70s and eighties are pretty wide.

James