Self Sufficient Living

[CJT]

Good Morning,

Just after some ideas and advice that anyone may have out there.

Late 2012 or early 2013 I should be able to purchase some acreage out around Samford (North West of Brisbane). I am looking at a minimum of 10 acres.

I am planning to set up the place being generally self sufficient for energy, water, sewerage, fruit, vegetables and meat.

I am looking at the following;

Plant a fruit tree orchard
Set up greenhouse style vegetable gardens (keep the animals out)
Will set up a fenced chicken enclosure / coop starting with 5 or so chickens and a rooster
Will have some cattle for meat
Will have some lambs for meat
Set up solar power, probably away from the buildings on a tracking system
Large underground water tanks collecting from the shed and house
A few questions;

Pros and Cons of solar power storage compared to grid connected (I noticed you are limited to a max 5kw grid connection in Qld)? The shed will still be grid connected for all the power sources, however lighting would be off solar system. Thinking the house could be completely off solar.
Does anyone know of mobile / country butchers that will do poultry, beef and lamb for you at your property?
It is very early days at the moment, but doing as much research and planning as I can before I start.

Thanks in advance for any information provided.

[dobbo]

Most off the grid sheds have either 3 phase generators or pnuematic tools.

Although underground water is a good idea why not build the Queenslander styled house with shipping containers on stilts, have the tanks below the floor. The airflow and tanks combined should assist in the cooling of the house.

Dispite what the propaganda states, photovoltaics are not the answer to everything, I'd look at a hybrid system or some kind.

[bee utey]

Grid connected solar is the most robust 99% of the time, but there are good methods of combining solar and battery backup, e.g.

SP Plus Energy Centre (http://www.selectronic.com.au/spplus/)

That way you don't run the batteries down every night, use solar during the day regardless and have battery backup integrated.

Tracking solar is cool, I have one on a 1.5kW system which gives about 30% more harvested energy than plain north facing panels.

[PhilipA]

I often wonder whether solar pumping of water during the day to a header tank, then using the hydro to run a hydro generator at night to a tank at the bottom of a hill etc etc would be a possible answer . Diruing the day the solar pump would also work so the generator could go full time if needed.

The tanks could be big ones that only use a portion of the water pumped as a backup for cloudy days.

This gets around the expensive battery bank problem , and you need water anyway. The lower tank could be rainwater fed and maybe from a creek pump as well. You need water anyway and big tanks are pretty cheap compared to batteries.
I don't know the scale needed but that would bdepend ofn your need for high demand appliances like washing machines , microwaves etc.
Regards Philip A

[bee utey]

I often wonder whether solar pumping of water during the day to a header tank, then using the hydro to run a hydro generator at night to a tank at the bottom of a hill etc etc would be a possible answer . Diruing the day the solar pump would also work so the generator could go full time if needed.

The tanks could be big ones that only use a portion of the water pumped as a backup for cloudy days.

This gets around the expensive battery bank problem , and you need water anyway. The lower tank could be rainwater fed and maybe from a creek pump as well. You need water anyway and big tanks are pretty cheap compared to batteries.
I don't know the scale needed but that would depend on your need for high demand appliances like washing machines , microwaves etc.
Regards Philip A

That is just heaping inefficiency on inefficiency. Too many steps in the energy conversion process. You want to build a mini-Snowy scheme? :p

If you insist on energy storage a biomass powered steam generator would be my choice. Your own firewood is your storage medium. Hot water for free all winter too.

[rovercare]

Stand alone solar is only really viable if you have to buy a transformer and do a long underground, spending 10-15k

[salty1960]

Looks like a great spot and a good idea.

Stephen

[Vern]

Stand alone solar is only really viable if you have to buy a transformer and do a long underground, spending 10-15k
$15k + just for the tranny, then cost of underground, any where from $1000-$20,000:(

[123rover50]

I would stay away from cattle and large animals. Expensive fencing and yards. They have to be ear tagged now too. Cost of tick and fly control,
Cost of mobile butcher. Keep to smaller animals and butcher them yourself. Rabbits and Guinea pigs are good.
[ Keep quiet about the rabbits ;)]
Didiman

[JDNSW]

Stand alone solar is only really viable if you have to buy a transformer and do a long underground, spending 10-15k

$10-15k won't get you very far - I was quoted $30,000 seventeen years ago, and that was overhead wiring.

John

[JDNSW]

Some general comments.

I have lived in a pretty much self sufficient house for sixteen years. Solar power is adequate, but battery replacement is a major cost every ten years or so. Backup generator is essential. I have trackers, but they have been out of service for several years, the control boards having failed. With the manufacturer no longer in existence and no parts available, nobody will touch them. While the extra efficiency looks good on paper, next time I would simply spend the money on more panels, and particularly with the cost of panels coming down, be better off. I would not even consider having part of the property solar and part of the property grid - either one or the other, but by all means add grid feed solar if you go grid.

Use of pumped water sounds attractive until you do some sums. The efficiency of small electric pumps and turbines is about 60% at best, for an overall storage efficiency of less than 40%, ignoring flow losses in piping. This compares with a charge/discharge efficiency for lead/acid batteries of around 80%. I would comment though that I have in effect used this in one area for energy storage. Instead of the usual pressure pump for water, I have a centrifugal pump feeding a large (900gallon, 4000l) header tank. Although this is an inefficient use of energy, it allows me to run the pump only when I have surplus energy available.

Underground tanks are usually much more expensive than above ground storage. There are two reasons for this. One is the obvious one that you have to dig a hole, and you have to make sure the tanks are strong enough to stand the weight of the overburden. But a second reason is that you have to make sure that the tanks will not float up through the soil if they happen to be empty when the groundwater around them is above the base. This involves either arranging proper drainage, which is probably impossible unless the ground is hilly, and will in any case be expensive, or attaching to the tank a weight (usually concrete) that together with the tank weight is equal to the weight of water it can contain.

Before getting any animals, I suggest you investigate state and local requirements, as well as talking to a local rural supplier about costs. The problem is likely to be that a lot of the red tape and costs involved are the same for any number of stock, so they get rather impractical for the small numbers you envisage. When you consider killing and butchering your own animals, bear in mind that even one sheep provides a lot of meat. A steer means that you will need a very much larger freezer (with larger power requirements) than is usual in a normal house. Selling home killed meat legally is almost certainly impractical owing to the red tape you have to comply with.

Hope this helps,

John

[bee utey]

I have trackers, but they have been out of service for several years, the control boards having failed. With the manufacturer no longer in existence and no parts available, nobody will touch them.

LED Solar Tracker Sensor PreBoxed without cables 12v | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LED-Solar-Tracker-Sensor-PreBoxed-without-cables-12v-/200684231096?pt=AU_Solar&hash=item2eb9b659b8)

Building solar trackers is easy and fun, the guy who sells these tracker boxes is great to get on with. Electric rams are used with satellite trackers and in small panel sets you can use actuators off invalid beds etc.

[Chucaro]

When you have time go to your local library and borrow Permaculture: A Designer's Manual by Bill Mollison .
Good practical and cheap ideas.
If you go for 20 acres or more have a look the possibilities to have milking goats for producing cheese. Is a good source of income but requires 18/7 working hours if you like the life style.
The other big income earning is having 3 o 4 acres of fig trees, the table type like the Brown Turkey. It fetch very good money, it is easy to look after and only require neutral to alkaline soil (red soil it is not good).

Power ways I would install 16 solar panels and connect them to the grid.

[Grover-98]

This is probably a useless comment but i have lived in a self sufficient house for the past 8 years on a property... Solar/wind for power, rain water and a compost toilet.

Easily achievable and even more affordable today then it was back when my parents set this system up.

James.