Lightning and a RRS - Does not end well for the RRS systems

[101RRS]

In Canberra this afternoon we had a huge storm which resulted in all my gutters overflowing and water entering the garage. The RRS was parked out on the front lawn

I went out to the front porch to see what was happening and all of a sudden there was a bright blue light and a huge noise and I went holy $#!T - when I recovered there was a lot of blue thick smoke and a burning smell in the courtyard next to me. Looking around I also noticed my pergola was missing one of the supporting posts - there were matchsticks scattered over the front yard and next doors to about 40m away. The RRS was parked about 4 feet from the blown up timber.

What seems to have happened was there was a dual bolt of lightning that struck a garden shredder in the courtyard and the second bolt hit the treated pine post - now I am about 2' away from the shredder and about 12' from the pergola post. The shredder was still smoking and it looks like a welder has hit it on its side. The post was ripped out of the brickwork and the top half turned into splinters and with the car being so close some metal hit the bonnet and put a 50mm scratch in it. The lightning bolt went through the pergola and did not damage it except for the post, did not damage the tree over the pergola, did not damage metal work on the house or overhead wires only 10' away but did blow all the circuit breakers and earth leakage breaker.

This is a pic of the courtyard where I store my junk from where I was standing - in the foreground the bolt hit the shredder where the blue tarp has a hole in it - the brick and and solar light did not move - the remains of the post is behind the bike cover. You can just see the car through the shade cloth.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/IMG_0478.jpg

Now to the car - here is how close the car was - the post where the lightning struck was just to the right of the shade cloth.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/IMG_0482.jpg

The car started Ok soon after but later started having major issues.
Every fault known to man now pops up, the hazards switch themselves on, the doors lock and unlock by themselves, strange noises from behind the dash - if you switch the engine off it will not restart - no starter motor turning until after the hand brake light goes out.

A short vid of what happens.
Forum Posts Album :: BeforeHardReboot.mp4 video by gazzz21 - Photobucket@@AMEPARAM@@http://vid42.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/BeforeHardReboot.mp4@@AMEPARAM@@vid42@@AMEPARAM@@4 2@@AMEPARAM@@e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/BeforeHardReboot@@AMEPARAM@@mp4

A short vid of what happens after a hard reboot.
Forum Posts Album :: AfterReboot.mp4 video by gazzz21 - Photobucket@@AMEPARAM@@http://vid42.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/AfterReboot.mp4@@AMEPARAM@@vid42@@AMEPARAM@@42@@AM EPARAM@@e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/AfterReboot@@AMEPARAM@@mp4

I subsequently took it for a drive - down on the stops, all dash fault lights on, will get up to 60kph but very sluggish - hazard lights on and cannot turn them off.

I guess I need to book it in to a workshop and get it on the test computer - I only wish I had a few options locally for checking the car out.

Not happy Jan.

Garry

[discowhite]

what the chances of that happening!!!:eek:

and whats the chances of the insurance covering it? would they class that as an act of god?

hope you get it sorted.

cheers phil

[oldsalt]

Geez Gary - what a bummer - hope you get it all sorted out O.K. - I got hit a few times whilst driving aircraft, it just resulted in a big flash and the "loss" of the wing tips and the top of the tail, all sacrificial parts and no big deal - scared the pax sh##less though !!!!!
Good luck
cheers

[RangieBit]

Hey there Garry,

Sorry to hear of your close encounter with the terrible forces of nature. Lucky you were somewhat elsewhere when the event occurred.

Although I am far from any expert here, it sounds to me like your RRS electronics got EMP'd or at least had a surge current. I really don't wish to be a harbinger of doom. Your symptoms and description of the event worry me more than a little.

I hope that I am wrong. One of the unfortunate side effects of high voltage discharge (approx 2 million volts in a lightning strike will qualify) is very similar to a nuclear detonation. A very strong electro-magnetic pulse.

Lots of military computer systems are hardened/insulated against this sort of thing by being encapsulated in multiple faraday type shielding. Regrettably car electronic control units don't enjoy this expensive luxury.

The proximity of the car to the strike with very little metal between the do-dads and the impact worries me greatly. Even the static discharge across the wet ground between your patio and the car won't have helped matters as this will be seen as a significant voltage spike by the electronics in the car. Unlike Oldsalt's aircraft, where bits of the airframe suffered for carrying the voltage/current, your car got the voltage spike grounded so the current differential was painfully large. This is evidenced by that fact that your house ELS tripped.

Hope at worst it's just a loss of memory on the part of some of the ECU's and they simply need to be reloaded. The EMP will act like an re-programmer and void the contents of some normally non-volatile memory in ECU's.

Hope your tale does have a happy ending and I look forward to your advice that all ends well. Good luck with it.

As an aside, the statistics say that a person who survives being struck by lightning once will be struck, with certainty, a second time. Some people have been known to be struck over a dozen times. Nature is just plain weird and some people seem to be natural lightning rods!

Cheers,
Iain

[Blknight.aus]

have you noticed how every system thats coming up faulted has solenoids in it?

[Graeme]

Time to buy a lottery ticket, Garry! Fortunately it was the post that got blown to pieces, not you. Note to self - do not lean on verandah post during a storm!

[sheerluck]

Whoa, that was a close one! Though, as bad as it looks, it could have been worse. Old mother nature has a lot of power at her disposal!

[stig0000]

mmmm cant say for sure,, but that's probs fried the CJB and couple other units, obviously the PCM engine software side is ok as when you could the engine started and ran fine,, id hope its insured and they right it off as that will be a ongoing electrics nightmare, but i hope its at least its poped a few fuses:(:(, i gota feeling thats going to get expensive:(

[101RRS]

Thanks for all those comments - insurance wise it is the first day of my new Allianz comprehensive car insurance - I wonder how it would look if I claimed on the first day of the insurance.

HOWEVER - it looks like all is well. I noticed that the Scangauge had lost connectivity with the car so I disconnected it and immediately systems started coming back - just a couple at a time after restarts - after three restarts all the lights were gone and no warnings in the message center.

Went for a 10k drive and all well. When I got back I plugged the Scangauge back in and 5 secs later all the gongs, warnings and lights started again - remove it and after 3 starts all is back to normal. So it looks like there was a EM pulse which the car survived but took the Scanguage out.

Lightning - a strange thing - as I said - scared the crap out of me (glad I was under the porch roof), it bypassed a whole lot of things in the way - hit the side of the shredder that was under a plastic blue tarp and zapped the post and blew it out of the wall, yet left the nearby tree and pergola untouched. No smoke at all from the post but the smoke from the shredder was quite thick - when it stops raining I will see if it still works.

I am somewhat relieved that the car now seems to be OK. The Scangauge was a nice piece of kit and I will probably get another one.

Cheers

Garry

[stig0000]

oh wow,, thats good,

[tempestv8]

Wow, that's no good.

I noticed that the transmission shift indicator first said "E" for error, presumably. Then it changed to "F".

[roverfan]

what the chances of that happening!!!:eek:
would they class that as an act of god?


cheers phil

I often wonder where this act of God thing comes from when discussing insurance, it is a myth and doesnt exist as a clause in any motor or home insurance policy in Australia and never has as far as I have seen and ive looked at thousands of policies from the first one issued in Aus to the most recent that came in the mail.

[101RRS]

A tree fell on my D1 in a Defence carpark about 12 years ago - the insurance company had no issues paying even though it was an 'act of god'.

Defence had stopped trimming the tree and removing dangerous limbs because the Greenies lobbied Defence about destroying parrot habitat. I submitted a claim to Defence to recoup my out of pocket expenses such as the insurance excess but ultimately my legal advice was that it was "an act of god" therefore negligence cannot be shown.

Interestingly trimming of the trees restarted the day after I lodged my claim.

So insurance companies cannot dodge 'an act of god' claim but if you sue for negligence and it is deemed an 'act of god' you get no where.

Garry

[PhilipA]

A tree fell on my D1 in a Defence carpark about 12 years ago - the insurance company had no issues paying even though it was an 'act of god'.

Where did the idea that insurance companies do not pay on "an act of God"
There would not be a hail damage claim if that were true.

BUT the stinger is that you lose your no claim bonus because the other guilty party cannot be "identified". It is hard to sue God for the money.

Regards Philip A

[Tombie]

Where did the idea that insurance companies do not pay on "an act of God"
There would not be a hail damage claim if that were true.

BUT the stinger is that you lose your no claim bonus because the other guilty party cannot be "identified". It is hard to sue God for the money.

Regards Philip A

Billy gave it a good go...
http://www.movieposterdb.com/posters/05_10/2001/0268437/l_57816_0268437_c497f22c.jpg

[Tombie]

A tree fell on my D1 in a Defence carpark about 12 years ago - the insurance company had no issues paying even though it was an 'act of god'.

Defence had stopped trimming the tree and removing dangerous limbs because the Greenies lobbied Defence about destroying parrot habitat. I submitted a claim to Defence to recoup my out of pocket expenses such as the insurance excess but ultimately my legal advice was that it was "an act of god" therefore negligence cannot be shown.

Interestingly trimming of the trees restarted the day after I lodged my claim.

So insurance companies cannot dodge 'an act of god' claim but if you sue for negligence and it is deemed an 'act of god' you get no where.

Garry

A local council in Adelaide lost when they claimed a tree branch which fell and killed a woman was AOG.. They were found guilty of not maintaining a safe area...


Anyhow, how can an imaginary person do such damage? My son had an imaginary friend who broke things.. Perhaps the same guy?

[Ivan]

what the chances of that happening!!!:eek:

and whats the chances of the insurance covering it? would they class that as an act of god?

cheers phil
I am an atheist so I would love to know how they could prove it was an act from a non-existant being.

:p

Ivan

[sniegy]

"holy $#!T" is an understatement Garry, it's good to see that everyone is ok.
WOW !
Hope it all turns out ok for you..
WOW !

:eek:

[seano87]

Originally Posted by discowhite (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?p=1590045)
what the chances of that happening!!!:eek:
would they class that as an act of god?


cheers phil

I often wonder where this act of God thing comes from when discussing insurance, it is a myth and doesnt exist as a clause in any motor or home insurance policy in Australia and never has as far as I have seen and ive looked at thousands of policies from the first one issued in Aus to the most recent that came in the mail.

More commonly called "Force Majeure" rather than act of god.

If this is the sort of stuff this God fella does, don't know he sounds like too much of a top bloke!

[101RRS]

"holy $#!T" is an understatement Garry, it's good to see that everyone is ok.
WOW !
Hope it all turns out ok for you..
WOW !

:eek:

Thanks - car is back all OK once the Scan gauge is disconnected.

Finding things in the house though - main PC is dead, one HD set top box is dead and the answering machine is dead - yet all TVs, two laptops, another HD set top box and everything else that I have tried all seem OK. The phone was out for about 2 hours but internet on the same copper wire was all OK with no dropouts.

Garry

[superquag]

I've just come in from our carport, watching the thunderstorm that went directly overhead... One lightning strike about 200 metres away and another I did'nt see 'cos I was busy disconnecting our PV array. - Both scared the whatsis out of me and the ears are still ringing....

Now that I'm inside, re-connecting computers etc, yours was the first post I read. - Talk about co-incidence!

Here's a reference to another lucky bloke... SEVEN times.

Roy Sullivan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Graeme]

Thanks - car is back all OK once the Scan gauge is disconnected.So it seems the Llams module got off unscathed too.

[101RRS]

Yeah - still worked while the car was having a hissy fit - the car sat down on the stumps and LLAMS would still lift it up without using the emergency function.

Shame the lightning didn't kill that rotton dinger when the door is open and key in ignition - it drives me crazy at times.

Graeme your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to work out how to kill it leaving other functions in place. Checking the car out meant in and out with the door open etc - real annoying.

[superquag]

Find the dinger transducer...and fill it with gunge of choice, - Silicone, bog, Araldite. Or Gaffa-tape if you want to play safe.

That way the electronics won't have internal conniptions. :p

[Graeme]

The emergency function allows off-road height to be achieved when the vehicle has lowered whereas without activating it, the maximum is normal height.

As the D4 has a CCF option to turn off the door open with ignition on warning chime, perhaps the D3 has an equivalent CCF option for the key in the ignition warning chime.

[101RRS]

Find the dinger transducer...and fill it with gunge of choice, - Silicone, bog, Araldite. Or Gaffa-tape if you want to play safe.

That way the electronics won't have internal conniptions. :p

Unfortunately the dinger also dongs for a whole range of other functions so you will loose other functionality.

[101RRS]

The emergency function allows off-road height to be achieved when the vehicle has lowered whereas without activating it, the maximum is normal height.

As the D4 has a CCF option to turn off the door open with ignition on warning chime, perhaps the D3 has an equivalent CCF option for the key in the ignition warning chime.

I have not as yet found on any forum where the door dinger has been killed in the D3. Here is another marketing opportunity for you to develop a black box that kills it :)

[Mike_S]

ding ding ding ding ding ding

:mad:

Tried for ages with my independant guy back home to switch that bloody thing off, searched through everything whilst it was plugged into the laptop but couldn't find it anywhere. It must be in there somewhere though.

[Graeme]

It must be in there somewhere though.Perhaps there's no facility to turn it off.

[sniegy]

WRT the house Garry, do you have surge protectors anywhere?
This may explain a bit, then again mabe not?
Interesting reading that what you have that works & what doesn't work, an amazing natural occurance that we don't know too much about, beautiful to watch, deadly to be a part of.
Take care :D

[101RRS]

Your right - absolutely strange. The power had previously gone out and as a result the computer was off when the lighting hit yet the two laptops being were on and had no issues as did the plasma, and Kogan LED TV and other electrical equipment. One HD setbox got frazed but the other HD box of the same brand was Ok.

When I checked the house fuse box, half of the circuit breakers had popped as well as both earth leakage switches - yet other circuit breakers remained on.

Lightning is a very strange phenomenon.

[Mike_S]

Perhaps there's no facility to turn it off.

It can be. There's a programme at home about Stobart Transport, the owner took delivery of a new RRS (painted to his own non-LR colour) and first thing he noted on camera was the dinger as he sat in it in the showroom for the programme. "Got to get that dinger switched off, it's already driving me crackers" he says. His comment a few days later was "it's cost me £500 but the daft dinger is now switched off". He'd had the thing remapped as well. William Stobart, lives local to my parents in a mammoth house with lots of toys.

[Graeme]

the owner took delivery of a new RRS
MY10 onwards uses a different CCF to earlier models.

[Bigbjorn]

Don't you just love electronic cars and their strange behaviours and propensity for instantaneous and catstrophic failures.

[scarry]

WR
Interesting reading that what you have that works & what doesn't work, an amazing natural occurance that we don't know too much about, beautiful to watch, deadly to be a part of.
Take care :D

i recently attended a job where the house had been struck by lightning.The fridge,washer & one indoor A/C out of six indoors & one outdoor,(a multi head system),was badly damaged,nothing else.
The six indoors & one outdoor are powered from one circuit.None were actually working during the incident,but all were powered up.I don't know what breakers tripped ,etc.
i replaced the PCB's in the indoor,& it was OK.The other damaged appliances were replaced.

I also remember attending a job many yer's ago when a residence was also hit by lightning.In this case all the lights were blown off the cieling,everything plugged in was destroyed,& also bits of bricks at low level were blown off the walls.

A tree was hit at my parents place in the early 80's.The gum was destroyed & it earthed onto the post for the extenderline,burning the paint.we were in the house about 5m away.The noise was unbelievable,& scared the living daylights out of us at the time.Not something you forget easily.

Power surges & cases where you drop a phase,or get low voltages do the same sort of thing,seem to affect some things & not others,for no apparent reason.

Now as for those ding dongs,the D2 has very few of them:)

But the work van has got em:mad::mad::mad:

[101RRS]

I powered up the garden shredder that took the initial bolt of lightning and it has the scars to show it - runs fine.

Yet other things well away are still bung. I am trying to work out whether the power supply in the PC has blown or whether it is it and the motherboard. The hard drive is Ok as I have it connected to another computer that was not damaged but was on at the time (the PC was off) and on the same power circuit as the blown PC.

Garry

[Tombie]

Don't you just love electronic cars and their strange behaviours and propensity for instantaneous and catstrophic failures.

Yeah I do love them...

Never had electronics shut down any of my vehicles... Ever... Had some quirky behavior but no so stoppers.

But... Have had plenty of mechanical failures! Most of which required substantial work before proceeding!


"Where the Desert meets the Sea"
'Did I mention some great 4WDriving is just 5 minutes from home?'

[Bigbjorn]

Yeah I do love them...

Never had electronics shut down any of my vehicles... Ever... Had some quirky behavior but no so stoppers.

But... Have had plenty of mechanical failures! Most of which required substantial work before proceeding!


"Where the Desert meets the Sea"
'Did I mention some great 4WDriving is just 5 minutes from home?'

All I can say to that is that you have been very bloody lucky.

I had my first car with electronic ignition some time in the 1970's.Replaced three modules in that one and all were instantaneous total failures except for one that died overnight whilst parked. Next electronic car had an integrated ignition and emission control system. Replaced possibly four or five of these in nine years and took to scouring wreckers for the replacements as the OEM price had crept up to over $600. Put a points distributor in this one in self defence. Next came a series of V8's with Kettering coil and points ignition, no problems. My current Falcon ute has had three distributors and modules, two modules on their own, a Smartlock box, several coils. I call it the two in one Falcon, the first and the last.

It screwed me again last week. Drove home and parked, next day no start. Checked the bulb and fuse in the interior light as this has held me up in the past. These Falcons wont start if no interior light as it is part of the Smartlock circuits. Not this time. Called RACQ so they could earn part of their annual subscription. Verdict- no spark, no injector pulse. On the tilt tray to the electronics wizard. Another burnt out coil.

This is why I bought a County-Isuzu. No electronics other than the CD-radio which, of course, doesn't work.

[Tombie]

Nah Brian, I'd say you've been the opposite... Very UNlucky.

I've only attended a call out for 1 electrical issue and this was 'technically' mechanical - the spring on the points set snapped...


"Where the Desert meets the Sea"
'Did I mention some great 4WDriving is just 5 minutes from home?'

[camel_landy]

I would have been very suprised if there was any lasting effect, even from a direct lightening strike. The body shell of the car acts as a faraday cage & would protect the electrical systems.

M