Extended Height Mod

[HarryO]

I have been looking at the Johnson Height Rod Modification which gives and extra 2 ½ inches of lift.

http://www.landroverworld.org/forums/showthread.php't=20853

One of the problems I see with this is that it is a mechanical mod that I would not want to install permanently and taking it off /on as needed will eventually loosens the joints.

Being from an electrical background I was wondering if anyone has looked into an electronic solution for this.- my idea would be to have the standard Access/ Normal/ Extended heights but by adding in a resister on each sensor and a common switch you will be able to offset the potentiometer and “fool” the system into extending above the extended height. Basically you are building in a switchable electrical offset.

What’s good about this is your vehicle remains standard for on and off roading and with one switch you can hyper extend it only when needed.

Does anyone know the potentiometers resistance (Ohms) values at Access, normal and extended heights – that way I can calculate the size of the offset resisters.

[101RRS]

You mean something like this

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/verandah/114282-llams-electronic-height-controller-d3-d4-rrs.html

Made by a member on AULRO and I have one fitted to my car - works great.

Also for Rods I would be using Gordon's stuff - better than Johnson rods.
www.greenOvalExperience.com (http://www.greenovalexperience.com/)
email: info@greenOvalExperience.com

and he is an AULRO member and in Perth

[400HPONGAS]

2nd that , Ferget the Rods , Go a LLAMS kit !

[NavyDiver]

2nd that , Ferget the Rods , Go a LLAMS kit !

Ditto No3 for LLams except be careful if doing a handbrake manual release while on a track needing the super exented mode to get in and out :o My fault I broke it :D

[~Rich~]

Echo, echo, echo.
Yup LLAMS the way to go!

[Graeme]

Does anyone know the potentiometers resistance (Ohms) values at Access, normal and extended heights
I travelled this route initially until I discovered that the sensors produce a regulated voltage. My Llams system converts the analogue voltages to a digital representation, modifies the digital values as appropriate then outputs acceptable PWM pseudo-analogue signals.

[WhiteD3]

I've got the GOE rods. They're low tech, they work, are easy to remove and set up/down, and inexpensive. To change from off road to normal takes me 2 minutes.

[discotwinturbo]

I've got the GOE rods. They're low tech, they work, are easy to remove and set up/down, and inexpensive. To change from off road to normal takes me 2 minutes.

Me too. If I have a suspension issue that needs land rover to fix, two minutes to take all 4 off and put the factory ones back on. This is what helped me make the decision over LLAMS. Best not to mess around too much with the discos electronics.....that the way I feel anyway.

Gordon from GOE has a simple no nonsense solutions in these rods.

[400HPONGAS]

Im amazed that lovers of such low tech (read cheap !)solutions would ever consider owning such a High tech 4WD solution as a D3/D4/RRS . Whether you like to believe it or not , electonic componentry is a factor of 100 times more reliable than its Mechanical brother .

[discotwinturbo]

Im amazed that lovers of such low tech (read cheap !)solutions would ever consider owning such a High tech 4WD solution as a D3/D4/RRS . Whether you like to believe it or not , electonic componentry is a factor of 100 times more reliable than its Mechanical brother .

LOL.

[discotwinturbo]

Im amazed that lovers of such low tech (read cheap !)solutions would ever consider owning such a High tech 4WD solution as a D3/D4/RRS . Whether you like to believe it or not , electonic componentry is a factor of 100 times more reliable than its Mechanical brother .

I am no engineer, but cant see how electronic components could ever be more reliable than mechanical components.....more efficient yes.

One of the biggest reasons for me purchasing the D4 is I am such a techno freak and love all the latest and greatest gadgets. I can't get enough of them. But after research, I chose the cheapest (read did not want to put a hole in my console, and play around with electronics on the suspension which seems to be a big source of error issues) solution. LR seem to find a reason not to cover something under warranty....already been there with LR.

Happy with my cheap solution....as I am sure those that purchased LLAMS are happy with theirs.

[roamer]

I'm all for the GOE rods, they are simple, swap over holes and away you go

can't see how they could be less reliable

most faults I've had with my D3\D4's have been electronic hicups.

[Tombie]

.....

[roamer]

Thats how much you know about the Goe rods,
they're plastic a weigh about 3gms
and are you serious ? an " intergrated in cab system ' would be more reliable than the rods, please
have heard of a (one) pin connection problem, that's one more than GEO rod problems,
and what makes you think an insurance company would or anyone else, take a different stand on a "intergrated in cab selectable ' modification
The most common fault on MY 4 wheel drive is electric not mechanical

[Tombie]

W F B

[101RRS]

Lets not have a fight about whether rods or LLAMS are better - both do their designed job well and it is up to an individual to decide what suits them best.

The OP asked about electronic means and also asked about rods - really we should outline the pros and cons of each and let the OP make up his mind.

Garry

[NavyDiver]

Lets not have a fight about whether rods or LLAMS are better - both do their designed job well and it is up to an individual to decide what suits them best.

The OP asked about electronic means and also asked about rods - really we should outline the pros and cons of each and let the OP make up his mind.

Garry

Agree Gary. Both options work and both have advantages and disadvantages.

The Rods certainly look a good solution and KISS (Keep It Simple Silly) principle certainly has its merits.

Not knocking any MOD to give a little more 4WD capablity.

I choose LLams as it is simple, fixed and intigrated very well. Installation was not as scary as I thought it may be and took dopey me about 40 minutes. I would take about 15 minutes now a second time. It also gave me a lot more confidence to dismantle and reassemble my D3
Graeme's help and support was also first rate.

I pick LLams over rods as I cannot get my D3 into my garage with roof rack on if I had a few more mm of height. She who must be obeyed already took out the garage door when I had a spare wheel on top :D I had to drop to access height with tyre on top to get in.
as was
LLAMS Height Controller Loom and Calibration.pdf - File Shared from Box (http://www.box.net/shared/nxtbf4yd4p)
LLAMS Height Controller Switch.pdf - File Shared from Box (http://www.box.net/shared/y90mhxmire) Thanks "Richard Milton"


The rods look quick to install and remove but not as quick as the permantly installed LLams which along with my garage door sealed the decision for me. Reflashing the Susspension CPU with a more upto date version was also well worth the time from my 2005 version (thanks Ritters)

[HarryO]

Thanks for the reply's


Im amazed that lovers of such low tech (read cheap !)solutions would ever consider owning such a High tech 4WD solution as a D3/D4/RRS

:p:p It’s exactly because I purchased such a High tech (read expensive) 4WD solution that I do not have any $$ left for the after market improvements / add on bits.:p

I will go with the Rod Mod for the moment purely because of budget constraints. The simple “el cheapo” system I had in mind is not possible as pointed out by Graeme.

[gghaggis]

Thanks to everyone for the robust debate!

Graeme and I approached this issue from two very different perspectives. As said, both have distinct advantages, so rods appeal to some (mainly due to their simplicity) and LLAMS to others (mainly due to their ease-of-use). That has to be win-win!!

With regards to the mechanical versus electronic, in the case of moving-part components, I'd agree that electronic designs are inherently more reliable than their mechanical counterparts, but electronic components tend to fail catastrophically, mechanical ones tend to fail gracefully. This can sometimes give the appearance of the mechanical component being more reliable.

Of course, my rods have _no_ moving parts, so the above is moot :D

Cheers,

Gordon

[400HPONGAS]

I here what your saying Graham , however a very basic quick lesson in Reliability engiheering is required. Reliability , the ability for given system to fufill its desired function . What you have confused is consequence with Function,
Electronic equipment usually fails without warning ,(random,with equal probability over life) some mechanical system have a gradual wear characteristic so they tend to give a warning (if your looking ),(Gradual degradation) Catastrophic doesnt really come into it unless its an unacceptable risk.
If one was to to find the root cause behind most of these Electrical/electronic failures its usually a Human who didnt do something right ,rhe electronics themselves rarely fail.Reminds me of the old myth about every thing failing on the the Bath-tub curve ,
http://www.reliabilityweb.com/art06/images/failure%20data.jpg

Now doesnt that come as shock,less than 5% of all failure will be because it wore out !!!!

[101RRS]

With regards to the mechanical versus electronic, in the case of moving-part components, I'd agree that electronic designs are inherently more reliable than their mechanical counterparts, but electronic components tend to fail catastrophically, mechanical ones tend to fail gracefully. This can sometimes give the appearance of the mechanical component being more reliable.

The other aspect is that in most vehicles advice of mechanical failures are relayed to the driver via electronic displays so there is the perception it is the electronics causing the problems - exacerbated by poor software writing compounding the issue such as brake light failure causing the car to have an unnecessary hissy fit.

The reality is that it is very rare to actually have an ECU failure but quite common to have sensors that are more than often mechanical fail, or have mechanical components such as compressors, park brakes, EGRs etc fail but are reported electronically.

The perception is not often based on reality.

Garry

Garry

[Graeme]

Graeme and I approached this issue from two very different perspectives. As said, both have distinct advantages, so rods appeal to some (mainly due to their simplicity) and LLAMS to others (mainly due to their ease-of-use). That has to be win-win!!
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