D4 front left driveshaft fails, twice

[Beamin]

This seems a bit odd to me, but maybe someone here can suggest a possible cause.

A couple of months ago I noticed a light ticking sound when doing U-turns or turning slowly on full right lock, apparently coming from the front left corner. I mentioned it to the dealer at the next service (48,000km), the mechanic located the sound as coming from the hub and ordered a replacement front left driveshaft, had to wait a few weeks for it to come from UK. Once fitted, the noise stopped.

8 days later I was doing a U-turn and heard the sound again, just a light ticking on full right lock at low speed. The next day the front left driveshaft failed while cruising on the highway at 100km/h. No warning signs that I noticed, just a sudden rumbling sound and vibration through the car that I thought must have been a flat tyre. The tyres were fine but there was virtually no drive to move the car - the engine would rev OK but road speed could not be coaxed much above normal idling pace to get to a safer place.

The D4 (MY10 3.0 SE) was carted off on a tray-top and the nearest LR workshop has confirmed failure of the same driveshaft, replacement sourced from Melbourne this time and fitted within 2 days.

In the 9 days that the first replacement driveshaft lasted the car never left the black-top, less than 1,000km of mostly highway and freeway driving with a smattering of town trips.

I don't want to bad-name the LR dealer that fitted the first replacement, as I have always had good service from them and I can't see how they would have anything to do with the first failure.

What's going on? Why did the first driveshaft need replacing at 48,000km? Why did the 2nd one fail as well? Is there anything known that would cause a recurring problem like this?

The car does more than 95% of its work on sealed roads, with occasional running around farmer's paddocks. Standard OEM tyres, bogged twice in its life - once in sand and once in mud.

Incidentally, LR Assist were excellent at getting us home (4 people and a huge amount of luggage). Organised the towtruck and taxi to arrive at the same time, paid for the cab to the nearest open car rental place, rented a car to get us home and provide wheels while waiting for repairs and then arranged delivery of the D4 to my office about 180km from the workshop.

[101RRS]

Sounds like an outer CV - why replace the driveshaft and not just the CV. If it failed after less than 1000km to me there are only two options - the original CV/shaft was not actually changed or there is a bad batch and the second failed as a result of a manufacturing fault.

Garry

[gghaggis]

There is a pin/collar arrangement that holds the CV joint in place. If that's not refitted correctly (happened to me once), you'll get the "CV" noise and drive will fail. However, I didn't think they needed to replace the whole driveshaft, so perhaps your issue is a little different?

Cheers,

Gordon

[Beamin]

Thanks Gordon. No idea if it involved the pin/collar arrangement or something else. Who knows what actually gets found or done during warranty repairs? Unfortunately, I'm a bit gun-shy now about it happening again, even though I have enjoyed this car immensely for the last 2 years. Fingers crossed, eh?

Cheers.

[Beamin]

I'm now waiting for the next CV/driveshaft failure. Less than a month after the last replacement (by a different workshop) and the ticking noise has returned with a vengeance, particularly after a long day of driving. Ticks like crazy in the front left while doing U-turns and even normal right turns/bends. Also ticks a bit on full left lock as well and I'm starting to hear the same ticking noise in the front right at full lock either way. Strangely, there's no ticking at all first thing in the morning and it keeps increasing as the car/drivetrain gets warmer.

The sound is awful but no sign of another failure yet so I'm reluctant to request a repair, as the first repair converted a curious ticking noise into a breakdown/recovery fairly quickly (9 days) and I'd rather not bring that on again.

Could it be something else making this noise? It's getting worse but it keeps working on long highway drives (600km/day) and long low-range climbs and descents in very steep country in the last couple of weeks while the ticking noise has been there and getting worse.

Is anyone else having repeated CV problems or hearing a ticking sound on full lock either way?

[Graeme]

The sound is awful but no sign of another failure yetI'd take this as a sign of impending failure and get it resolved before it fails totally.

[Beamin]

I'd take this as a sign of impending failure and get it resolved before it fails totally.

Thanks Graeme but I've tried that twice now and it led to failure within 9 days the first time and then "impending failure" within a few weeks this time. I'm not sure what else I can do.


What's going on? Within the space of 6 weeks I've had one replacement, then a total failure and a second replacement, now another impending failure. Two different LR workshops have been involved and 3 successive parts (maybe 4 if the right one is now failing as well). Am I just unlucky getting 3 successive dud driveshafts? Am I doing too many U-turns? Should I keep the windows closed and turn up the stereo?


Or could it be something else? Have the repairs so far been replacing the wrong part? Could the diff generate this sort of noise? The bearings? Brakes? Wheels? Nuts?

[Graeme]

I cannot think that its anything to do with how you are turning to be re-occurring after such a short time. If replacing the driveshaft fixes the noise then I find it hard to think the noise is being produced by anything else, although it could be something else causing the driveshaft to fail. I don't know whether the driveshafts are supplied fully filled with grease but if not then perhaps lack of grease was the cause of the 2nd failure. But now the 3rd and the right one too? I wonder if the suspension bushes now flex to such an extent whilst doing U-turns that the CVs are turned too sharply for their design.

I have always nursed CVs when doing tight U-turns in front or 4 wheel drive vehicles because they are prone to excessive wear on full lock but a CV lasting only a few weeks has to be caused by something other than hard driving.

[JDNSW]

Just possible, but have you checked the wheel nuts?

John

[Beamin]

Just possible, but have you checked the wheel nuts?

John

Thanks John. Checked them this morning and found a bunch of them loose on both sides at the front. Could wiggle them back and forth with my fingers! Getting them tightened now to 140Nm as per the handbook.

Gotta wonder if there was ever a problem with the CV or driveshaft, apart from the failure of the first replacement. Also gotta wonder why the nuts are coming loose. Assuming that the wheel has to come off to replace the driveshaft, the last 2 times the nuts have been done up were LR workshops.

Glad I'm not singing "You picked a fine time to leave me, Loose Wheel" (apologies to Kenny Rogers)

[Graeme]

The rims mave have been damaged if the nuts have been loose for a while.

[Beamin]

The rims were checked this morning and no damage. I think the term he used was "not thrashed out". I'd like to say IT'S FIXED, but the jury's still out. I only drove about 150km today and there was still some ticking at the end of the day when I drove a couple of slow circles to test it.

I checked the wheel nuts again And found that I could wiggle them with my fingers. I resorted to the toolbag in the boot and confirmed that they were all tight enough that I couldn't really get them any tighter with the LR tool. Is it normal that the wheel nuts can be wiggled by hand when they're tight?

I'll put some more distance in over the next couple of days and report back.

[JDNSW]

I would be investigating if there is any reason the nuts are binding without tightening on the wheel.

John

[Graeme]

Is it normal that the wheel nuts can be wiggled by hand when they're tight?No, unless they have covers and the covers are loose. My D4 nuts are stored away so can't compare but IIRC it was my D2 that had covers, not the D4.

Edit: The D4 nuts do have covers and mine are loose enough to wriggle on the nuts.

[Graeme]

I have to wonder how tight the nuts on the half-shafts are if the wheels weren't properly tightened.

[CaverD3]

Maybe the drive shaft/CV failure was the symptom , not the cause?

[Beamin]

Latest diagnosis: wheel bearing.

I took the opportunity to drop in to the dealer yesterday after a few hours on the highway. They listened closely to the ticking and in light of the history decided it is a wheel bearing making the noise. A new one has been ordered and will be fitted when I have a chance to return in a few weeks.

[Robocop]

Without knowing the setup down there does that mean it could've been an incorrect installed bearing? Or no shim where there should be one?

[Graeme]

The bearings are not serviceable so either faulty manufacture or a failed seal.

Hopefully the dealer checked that the hub nut was still tight and that the hub isn't moving on the splines.

[Robocop]

But still a missing shim with a stretched cv would cause the same?

[Graeme]

No shims are used - they have a spacer between the bearings that crushes when the nut is correctly torqued. The trouble with this setup is that its difficult to retighten the hub without destroying the bearings as the 2nd time round the spacer is already crushed so the resistance is provided almost totally by the bearing rollers/balls themselves. Gauging the much lesser torque requirement is difficult, as almost no torque is appropriate after the 1st tightening.

Edit: CVs don't stretch in length as they already slide within themselves to cater for the varying shaft length that occurs as the suspension moves.

[Beamin]

I am happy to report that this now seems to be all fixed. A new wheel bearing has been fitted and all the ticking noises have stopped.

It appears that the original problem was misdiagnosed and there was most probably never a problem with the driveshaft/CV (apart from the first replacement part which was faulty and failed soon after installation).