BUICK BITS INTO ROVER V8

[Bigbjorn]

I have been told by a guy whose word I would not fully accept that the longer stroke crankshaft from a Buick 300 will go into a Rover 3.5 V8. He also reckons that the uncommon aluminium heads from a Buick 350 will go on the Rover V8 and are far superior as to flow.

I searched the internet and can't find any reference to these fitting a Rover V8, nor can I find a reference to aluminium heads for a Buick 350.

Any Rover gurus out there able to shine the light of knowledge on these claims?

[nobbyclrk]

Here's some reading you may find interesting. I've only skimmed over it but there maybe some nuggets in there.

http://www.roversd1.nl/sd1web/capacity.html

[CJT]

Have a look at this page too;

Boost Performance UK for ls1,ls1 engine, new-used, ford and scorpio, cosworth ford scorpio, specialists (http://www.chevroletls1.com/rover_v8.html)

[Blknight.aus]

Ive seen buick heads on board, I dont know how much work was done to get them on and I'd presume that if it wasnt a stupidly huge effort that since the rover v8 was based on the buick that theres good odds that the crank would fit.

[northiam]

I thought this was interesting..
LANDROVER V8 4BBL + MANIFOLD OEM BUICK | Car Engine Parts | Gumtree Sydney Region (http://southcoastnsw.gumtree.com.au/c-Cars-Vehicles-Motorbikes-Parts-parts-accessories-engine-engine-parts-transmission-LANDROVER-V8-4BBL-MANIFOLD-OEM-BUICK-W0QQAdIdZ331985781)

[p38arover]

I have been told by a guy whose word I would not fully accept that the longer stroke crankshaft from a Buick 300 will go into a Rover 3.5 V8. He also reckons that the uncommon aluminium heads from a Buick 350 will go on the Rover V8 and are far superior as to flow.

I searched the internet and can't find any reference to these fitting a Rover V8, nor can I find a reference to aluminium heads for a Buick 350.


David Hardcastle in his book Tuning Rover V8 Engines says (p.21) the Buick 300 alloy heads (1964 only) fit the Rover V8 and pore-76 are virtually the same but he doesn't mention the 350 heads. Later in the book (p. 112) he mentions 1968 Buick 300 aluminium heads.

Hardcastle says on p.23 that crankshafts from the 1964-67 cast iron Buick/Olds engines, known as the Buick 300, can be made to fit the Rover block. The 300 has 2.5" main bearing diameter so will not drop straight in. It is also externally balanced. It is also longer, "i.e., the flywheel flange is 14.2875mm (0.5625") further back". It also has a different rear seal. The 300 crank has a 0.6" longer throw than the Rover.

[PLR]

I have been told by a guy whose word I would not fully accept that the longer stroke crankshaft from a Buick 300 will go into a Rover 3.5 V8. He also reckons that the uncommon aluminium heads from a Buick 350 will go on the Rover V8 and are far superior as to flow.

I searched the internet and can't find any reference to these fitting a Rover V8, nor can I find a reference to aluminium heads for a Buick 350.

Any Rover gurus out there able to shine the light of knowledge on these claims?

G`day ,

It`s been a long time since i looked at their site , untill today .

D & D fabrications .......... USA .

www.aluminumv8.com/ (http://www.aluminumv8.com/)


These people have for 30 , they now say yrs played with the 215 Buick .

They do the 350 crank , i`m fairly sure .

I don`t know about an alloy 350 head but there is an aluminium head from a 300 Buick that is a bolt on .

It has much larger ports and the combustion chambers are 48cc or 62cc can`t remember which and of coarse the rovers are around 36cc 14 bolt and 28cc 10 bolt .

Peter

[p38arover]

See also THE ROVER SD1 FORUM :: View topic - RV8 Cylinder Heads (http://julianreynolds.forumup.co.uk/ntopic40-julianreynolds.html) for mention of Buick 350 heads

[Debacle]

I have been told by a guy whose word I would not fully accept that the longer stroke crankshaft from a Buick 300 will go into a Rover 3.5 V8. He also reckons that the uncommon aluminium heads from a Buick 350 will go on the Rover V8 and are far superior as to flow.

I searched the internet and can't find any reference to these fitting a Rover V8, nor can I find a reference to aluminium heads for a Buick 350.

Any Rover gurus out there able to shine the light of knowledge on these claims?

I remember reading somewhere about stroking a Buick 215 that the crank will fit but requires modification beacause it's too long, Not sure about the heads.

I will try and find the article because it had all the various pistons and rods needed depending on how far you wanted to go. Works out a lot cheaper than a kit.

Is the RRv8 a direct copy of the Buick or did they change anything ?

[Debacle]

Have a look at these

Affordable Aluminum V-8, Team Buick (http://www.teambuick.com/reference/library/affordable_aluminum_v-8.html)

Olds FAQ -- Jetfire (http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofjet.htm)

They mention the Buick 300 aluminum heads being a direct fit on a 215, but I saw no mention of 350 heads.

[Reads90]

I
Is the RRv8 a direct copy of the Buick or did they change anything ?

Yeah that is what the story is

That the rover v8 is a Buick lump anyway. It was too small for the yanks so the poms bought it in the 60's and put it in any thing they could

[rick130]

Have a look at these

Affordable Aluminum V-8, Team Buick (http://www.teambuick.com/reference/library/affordable_aluminum_v-8.html)

Olds FAQ -- Jetfire (http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofjet.htm)

They mention the Buick 300 aluminum heads being a direct fit on a 215, but I saw no mention of 350 heads.


Yeah that is what the story is

That the rover v8 is a Buick lump anyway. It was too small for the yanks so the poms bought it in the 60's and put it in any thing they could

I was only reading about it a few weeks back, (someone started a thread on the rover P6 which piqued my interest)

I'll try and dig up a link, but IIRC the Buick engine was die cast and the Rover sand cast, the Rover is therefore a little heavier and a few things were changed to simplify construction.

The Buick 215 team leader was employed by Rover to oversee setup and production.

Another bit of trivia is that the basic Buick 215 engine design became the basis for the famous Buick 90* V6 that after a long evolution eventually ended up in production here powering Commodores.

[Bigbjorn]

Is the RRv8 a direct copy of the Buick or did they change anything ?

GM passed on it for several reasons.

The fad for compact cars had passed and sales numbers in this class had dropped right off. Buyers of American cars went back to full size cars and this continued until the first Arab oil shock.

High production cost. Rejection rate was unacceptable. Their experiences with this and the four cylinder Chev. Vega engine prompted a lot of research into high volume production of complex aluminium castings. GM's work pretty much made possible the widespread use of aluminium engines today. They also got Du Pont involved in research into sealing porous castings. Du Pont had been major shareholders in GM for decades until anti-trust proceedings forced them to sell their shares about 1958. One time they owned 40%.

GM regarded it as a high warranty cost engine.

About this time American iron foundry research had made available the ability to produce thin wall castings in high volumes. Much cheaper than aluminium castings and of acceptable mass.

Rover had to do a certain amount of redesign to be able to build it on their antiquated engine plant.

[Bigbjorn]

Have a look at these

Affordable Aluminum V-8, Team Buick (http://www.teambuick.com/reference/library/affordable_aluminum_v-8.html)

Olds FAQ -- Jetfire (http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofjet.htm)

They mention the Buick 300 aluminum heads being a direct fit on a 215, but I saw no mention of 350 heads.

I have not found any mention anywhere of aluminium heads for the Buick 350. I did find a reference to using 350 iron heads on aluminium blocks and thus getting better head gasket sealing and durability in performance engines at higher compression ratios.

[Bigbjorn]

Another bit of trivia is that the basic Buick 215 engine design became the basis for the famous Buick 90* V6 that after a long evolution eventually ended up in production here powering Commodores.

GM built about 200,000 of the aluminium V8 during its short production life there. This engine family also included the V6 of which GM ended up making 7,000,000.

[loanrangie]

I was only reading about it a few weeks back, (someone started a thread on the rover P6 which piqued my interest)

I'll try and dig up a link, but IIRC the Buick engine was die cast and the Rover sand cast, the Rover is therefore a little heavier and a few things were changed to simplify construction.

The Buick 215 team leader was employed by Rover to oversee setup and production.

Another bit of trivia is that the basic Buick 215 engine design became the basis for the famous Buick 90* V6 that after a long evolution eventually ended up in production here powering Commodores.

I have 2 x of these 231 CI V6's at home, one is a late 77 even fire stock and the other is a 79 hi port head version with an edlbrock performer manifold and buick turbo alloy valve covers. One is for a 58 FC sedan and the other is a spare - hotrod maybe.

I also modded a spare HEI dizzy to fit a RV8 .

[uninformed]

from what I know, A rover guy was in the usa doing a deal regarding rover marine engines and saw the buick V8 and asked about it....told it was a discontinued engine he thought it perfect for their 2 current projects that were under wraps, these being the RR and the 101. both were under development at the same time and one reason the RR got the ag gearbox was that the 101 was pretty much a sure thing with LR's contacts and relation with the British Milatary, and only having the funding for 1 gearbox/t/case developemt made sure it was what was needed for the 101 and used in the RR. This is why it is strong and has the ability to have a rear pto that will operate at the same speed to drive a power drivin trailier.

There also was a SIIA 88 built by a LR dealer in the USA in the late 60's with one of these Buick V8, I think it was named Golden Rod. It had many mods, like seats, wider rims and bigger tyres chrome trim the LWB brakes etc. There was also a seriesIIA test bed vehicle built (red in colour) that was filled with gauges for evealuating the V8, this done in the UK.

anyway regarding buick rover mods, what about:

TA Performance Products Inc. (http://www.taperformance.com/)

I thought they were doing their own castings for heads and have done one for the rover v8 that is ment to be on par with the wildcat stuff but 1/3 the price???

[Pedro_The_Swift]

http://http://www.taperformance.com/prodimages/large/TA_4550.jpg

[Pedro_The_Swift]

did someone mention buick 300 cranks?
BritishV8 Forum: Designing Buick/Rover V8 Cams (http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?6,16387)

[bee utey]

did someone mention buick 300 cranks?
BritishV8 Forum: Designing Buick/Rover V8 Cams (http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?6,16387)

Looking at that site, a P76 crank would achieve slightly greater cubes. From wikipedia:

Buick V8 engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

a stroke of 3.40 in (86 mm) instead of the P76's 3.5 inch (88.9mm). Has anyone made a P76 crank fit the 3.5 block?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

This from Wiki,,

"In the mid-1980s, Hotrodders discovered the 215 could be stretched to as much as 305 cu in (5 l), using the Buick 300 crank, new cylinder sleeves, and an assortment of non-Buick parts.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V8_engine#cite_note-4) It could also be fitted with high-compression head from the Morgan Plus 8. Using the 5 liter Rover (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_V8_engine#5.0) (check out the references--)block and crankshaft, a maximum displacement of 317.8 cu in (5,208 cc) is theoretically possible."


anyone know where a Buick 300 is parked??:eek:

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Oh my!:eek::eek::eek:

Affordable Aluminum Buick / Rover Stroker Motor, by Kurt Schley (http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Affordable-Stroker-V8.htm)

[pop058]

Just for giggles :)

[Davehoos]

Looking at that site, a P76 crank wouldn (86 mm) instead of the P76's 3.5 inch (88.9mm). Has anyone made a P76 crank fit the 3.5 block?

sent one to france for a late model rover.recently sent a a few for scrap-forced clean up.i noticed a few more gone missing since the srapies left.

crank hits the sides of the block on a P6/SD1 block-the flywheel is different.the engine i know of converted to p76 rear main seal.

lots of these conversions done in the 80's.this was to keep the ADR27 engine number.its common to come across leyland blocks with rover heads and engine numbers stamed on.
the give away is the leyland number flange brocken off or modified.

[PhilipA]

I have been asking myself WHY?
Why would you go to all the machining to modify cranks that are unattainable in OZ anyway and are 50 years old rather than buy a tailored stroker kit that is made for the engine.
Unless you have your own fully equipped machine shop, the end cost would be similar IMHO.
Regards Philip A

[uninformed]

I have been asking myself WHY?
Why would you go to all the machining to modify cranks that are unattainable in OZ anyway and are 50 years old rather than buy a tailored stroker kit that is made for the engine.
Unless you have your own fully equipped machine shop, the end cost would be similar IMHO.
Regards Philip A

Can you give such examples of said kits?

[loanrangie]

Can you give such examples of said kits?

Not so common now but before the 4.6 there were a few kits available to stroke a 3.5 to 4.3 and a 3.9 to 4.7, cost was about $2500+ .

I agree with Philip, a P76 crank is 25-40 years old and spares are non existent, in saying that i have a complete low mileage 4.4 in my shed awaiting a new home.

[bee utey]

Can you give such examples of said kits?

Look here:

Real Steel (http://www.realsteel.co.uk/)

[loanrangie]

Look here:

Real Steel (http://www.realsteel.co.uk/)

There were local offerings as well, i think TR spares probably still sell them.

[Bigbjorn]

I have been asking myself WHY?
Why would you go to all the machining to modify cranks that are unattainable in OZ anyway and are 50 years old rather than buy a tailored stroker kit that is made for the engine.
Unless you have your own fully equipped machine shop, the end cost would be similar IMHO.
Regards Philip A

I asked the original question for several reasons.

(1) I have the opportunity to purchase a low k's one owner RR from a deceased estate.

(2) I regard the 3.5 as grossly underpowered to set about the job of moving a two ton car around.

(3) Easiest and cheapest horsepower is adding cubic inches.

(4) I plan to be in the USA again next August for the Monterey Historic Races and the Pebble Beach Concours. I could pick up the necessary bits whilst there. I was thinking of a complete 340 engine until told about the 300 crank.

(5) I am a Machinist, First Class, and can do any mods needed to the crank other than finish grinding.

A Buick 340 is no heavier than an RR with a steel bull bar and/or winch which I won't be fitting.

[uninformed]

Brian, wasnt you that first mentioned TA performance? seems like they are pretty on the ball with the rover buick stuff. Maybe worth a call?

[uninformed]

Look here:

Real Steel (http://www.realsteel.co.uk/)

Im sorry, I didnt realise that the UK was local, granted we are still in the commonwealth...........

[Bigbjorn]

Brian, wasnt you that first mentioned TA performance? seems like they are pretty on the ball with the rover buick stuff. Maybe worth a call?

Nt me. To me TA means Trans Am as in Chrysler 340TA.