Motorcyclists and cyclists - splitting lanes and switching teams!

[pfillery]

As a person who does a lot of commuting in peak hour Brisbane traffic, I have to say the behaviour of some motorcyclists and pushbike riders leaves a lot to be desired.

Particularly with reference to "splitting lanes" and "switching teams". Splitting lanes (riding up between cars while they are stationary or worse, while they are moving) and cyclists switching teams (my own term for when they act as road vehicles one minute and pedestrians the next as it suits them, ie running red lights by riding onto the footpath, crossing a pedestrian crossing then going back onto the road) both habits bordering on the illegal and just plain dangerous.

Every day I see motorcycles on the highway running either in between traffic rather than waiting their turn, just like all others have to, or worse, running up the emergency lane at the side, sometimes at very high speeds. Just because you can doesn't mean you should - should I drive my 4x4 on the grass verge to get around traffic because it can go there and the cars can't? And yes, I have seen 4x4 owners do this too. I have had handlebar and fairing "touches" as bikes have passed me while lane splitting, by the time you realise they are 100m ahead and out of view so what can you do about it. And then we get all the PR about how we need to be mindful and respectful of motorcyclists, check our blind spot etc but this should apply to bikes in the next lane, not sharing your lane. As a former bike rider I'm mindful of this but I never once split lanes (bit unsafe on a cruiser with wide bars) and the main protaganists tend to be the sports bikes.

As for bicycles, nothing frustrates me more than changing out of the left lane to pass a cyclist on a busy road (so as not to pass too close to them in a dirty great big land rover), which can be impossible at times in peak hour, changing back to the lane I was in, stopping at the next set of lights to see the same cyclist pass you by riding in the gutter, ride across the pedestrian crossing and back onto the road, meaning you have to pass him again further up the road. Plus the usual riding 2 abreast, etc etc. Cyclists demand equal treatment by road users and yet some do not give that back. Things won't be truly equal until there is some form of licencing or at least competency for cyclists using a bike as a road going mode of transport. Even if it is just a requirement to do some sort of safety course on the road rules, because a car cannot run a red light by driving onto the footpath can it? If you can be done for drink driving on a bike, then all other rules should be enforced as well. Rego numbers maybe?

I think all road users need to show each other a little more respect. Don't get me started on the lack of etiquette when it comes to merging.

Ok, now a little disclaimer. I'm not saying all motorcyclists and cyclists are bad road users. Like any group there are sensible ones and idiots. I ride a pushbike and have ridden motorcycles so can see things from both sides, so please don't say I'm having a go or picking on 2 wheeled modes of transport because I'm not. Just stating the facts as I see it.

[Hay Ewe]

I am a cyclist, a motorbiker and a Disco driver and up here in Cairns I see it too.

AND IT FRUSTRATES THE HELL OUT OF ME!

I dont lane split any more and on my pushie I wait at the lights too, (its good training) but get so frustrated at the same items as you do as well.

up here we also have a lot of asian students and I am led to beleive that in those countries the road rules are different, they have right of way but they have not been told / dont know / understand that is not the case here. makes it extremly dangerous for them and us as well

Hay Ewe

[bee utey]

And?

Half of everybody is below average intelligence too. All road user groups have their share of idiots.

If people are an accident waiting to happen, the accident will eventually happen to them. Just continue to set a good example, be careful, and don't rush things.

[DiscoWeb]

I commute regularly on a push bike in Sydney, probably much worse than Brisbane unfortunately. I think at least 50% of my ride now is on bike lanes or cycle paths (the only thing I actual like about Clover Moore) and have been doing this for 12 years.

I do lane split and jump to the head of traffic lights, but as I ride pretty much the same route each time I only do this when I know I will not hold up traffic behind because I will exit onto a bike lane or other point shortly thereafter.

As a cyclist and driver it frustrates me when a cyclist jumps a traffic line and then sits there at a slow pace holding traffic up, that is simply rude and promotes stupid behaviour from other road users.

I must say as a cyclist the amount of aggressive driver behaviour is sometime beyond belief. The mere fact you dare to be on the road sometimes annoys people and the number of times I have been almost run off the road at roundabouts etc is extraordinary.

Often I simply ask the driver at the next set of light (where I will invariable catch them within 30 seconds of them trying to kill me) if they would drive that way if I was there son, brother, husband etc. Generally this is met with blank stares but sometimes with people who threat to simply kill me at the next one, quite absurd.

Some cyclists are silly and some drivers are silly but I think most are reasonably sensible.

George.

[TerryO]

If you want to have the best chance of staying in good health when riding a motorcycle around Sydney then you need to ride agressively as if everyone is out to get you. Agressively doesn't mean dangerous either it means that you do lane split at lights when the traffic has stopped so you can get to the front before the lights go green.

I personally have never ridden down emergency stopping lanes of freeways as I reckon that is extremely dangerous.

I always rode with my headlight on years before it became mandatory and I always had one of thse loud annoying exhausts fitted, but everyone heard me coming. Many drivers in city traffic drive like they are in a daze with their eyes closed, which is fine if your in another car as in general that means if they stuff up you get scratched paint and a couple of dents, on a bike it usually means serious injury or worse.

I reckon most drivers that get mad because your lane splitting is because they know they are stuck in traffic while you'll get to your distination in half the time. That really annoys most people I know more then anything else.

Funny isn't it, car drivers hate SUV/4x4 drivers and nearly everyone hates motorcyclists who in turn often hate cyclists.

Personally I have no favourites I just hate everyone equally ...;)

cheers,
Terry

[boofdtl]

I ride a road bike and when i drive to work over the westgate in vic there are some real dicks on bikes..
They take some real risks the trucks wont move for them its not good at this time of year..

[chazza]

Plus the usual riding 2 abreast, etc etc. Cyclists demand equal treatment by road users and yet some do not give that back. .

It is legal in WA for cyclists and motor-cyclists to ride two-abreast in a single lane. Check the road laws in your State,

Cheers Charlie

[vnx205]

If you want to have the best chance of staying in good health when riding a motorcycle around Sydney then you need to ride agressively as if everyone is out to get you. Agressively doesn't mean dangerous either it means that you do lane split at lights when the traffic has stopped so you can get to the front before the lights go green.

cheers,
Terry

I agree. On those rare occasions that I rode in Sydney, I rode just as you have described. It was the only way I felt safe. By moving carefully to the front of the queue at the lights, getting away quickly meant that most of the time I was riding with a huge empty buffer zone around me.

Even on my Honda S90, it was possible to get the jump on cars when the lights turned green and they would only catch up if I was stopped at the next set of lights.

I didn't need to do anything dangerous or illegal and it felt a lot safer not having cars all around me.

[Ivan]

I have to put up with the local Cycle club on it's morning run most days. It really annoys me that they ride 2,3 or even 4 abreast in a single carriageway. Whilst they are enjoying their morning cycle I am trying to get to the station to catch the train for work!!!
Now, when I approach them, I just sound my horn and pass leaving enough room for 2 cyclists. If they are riding in more room than that well it's just tough luck if I knock them off their bike.
I also get annoyed around Brisbane by the cyclists who insist on riding on the pavement even though it's crowded with people.
Even though I cycle myself I really hate the Lycra Louts.

Ivan

[Dave_S]

No matter where you are or what you're doing, every user group hates all the others. Driving your Landie, you'll be hated by everyone from cyclists to small car owners to greenies. On a road bike, you get abused by pedestrians and motorists. On a mountain bike, horse riders and bush walkers want to ban you.

Campers hate trail bikers, public servants are hated by the public, the police are hated by those they protect, socialists are hated by the poor and nobody wants to share anything or give way to anyone.

Most cyclists know the road rules better than the motorists who abuse them. They also pay registration for a car they leave in the garage and, contrary to popular belief, have insurance. People disregard road rules all the time, no matter what their form of transport. At least on a pushie you won't mow down and kill a bunch of school kids at a bus stop.

Like a lot of people, I know what I'm allowed to do and, within those limits, I'll do as I please. If anyone doesn't like it, that's their problem.

[Veryan]

It is legal in WA for cyclists and motor-cyclists to ride two-abreast in a single lane. Check the road laws in your State,

Cheers Charlie

Yup Same in the UK. They only way to cycle safe is to cycle aggressive, 10 + plus years of cycling in the UK in Edinburgh, Manchester and London and now Perth has taught me that, oh and a few stints as a bike courier. I've had a few incidents, mostly revolve around people not actually looking before they pull out or there inability to judge the speed you are travelling at. Now Now I'm no saint on my bike, but then when your out on your bike everyday you see some car/4x4 drivers do some pretty crazy things too. So much of a muchness really.

Most of the time I am respectful to other road users. Dont forget when in a car, you are surrounded by metal, I am surrounded by a 1mm thick piece of Lycra. It is not illegal to go to the front of the que at lights, sometimes there are even have spaces reserved for bikes. The roads are plenty wide in this country to allow safe overtaking. That really gets me when I get to the front and then as I pull over/head for side as the lights go green I get beeped out the way. The road is at least 4m wide. Now that is plan rude in my books, and almost guaranteed to get some verbal abuse at the next set of lights.

Plus I quite like the buzz of splitting lanes - much the same as you get from riding down at the track with 40 other riders hurtling around at 40 - 50kph :)

[DiscoWeb]

I have to put up with the local Cycle club on it's morning run most days. It really annoys me that they ride 2,3 or even 4 abreast in a single carriageway. Whilst they are enjoying their morning cycle I am trying to get to the station to catch the train for work!!!
Now, when I approach them, I just sound my horn and pass leaving enough room for 2 cyclists. If they are riding in more room than that well it's just tough luck if I knock them off their bike.
I also get annoyed around Brisbane by the cyclists who insist on riding on the pavement even though it's crowded with people.
Even though I cycle myself I really hate the Lycra Louts.

Ivan

Ivan,

I do seriously hope that was a troll because if not your post is close to the stupidest post I have ever read on this site.

You are effectively saying you think you are well within your rights to try and kill someone when they might make you late and annoy you getting to work simply because they are riding more than 2 abreast ?

I could murder and rape and steal and yet will get better treatment than being a cyclist on the roads of Sydney and by the sounds of it Brisbane where it appear in some fools minds I am able to be run down like a dog simply because you think I am holding you up for a minute of two.

Wake up to your self !

Having ridden in packs, any self respecting cycling pack will never or very rarely ride more than 2 abreast as it make it too difficult to cycle the front riders. Christ even in the major bike races, where they have the whole road generally end up in pairs unless they are bunching for a sprint.

George

[TerryO]

If they are riding in more room than that well it's just tough luck if I knock them off their bike.

Even though I cycle myself I really hate the Lycra Louts.

Ivan


Do you reverse back over the ones you've knocked off to make sure you have taught them a lesson properly? ...:eek:

Its really scary what some people will admit to on a public form.

cheers,
Terry

[Disco99]

Being a truck driver im on the road early every morning I have to deal with cyclists all the time. Unfortunately it's a majority that seem to do the wrong thing! Riding down threw the middle of traffic, running red lights, no signalling, the list goes on.
I don't see how it's fair that motorists have to deal with people on bikes that don't pay to use the road! No insurance, no rego, no licence! And 99% of the time to driver of the vehicle gets the blame.

Road/race bikes shouldn't be allowed on the road, tire size is just ridiculous, feet are trapped in the pedals and most don't use lights when riding in poor lighting!
Cars aren't aloud to drive with racing slick tires on, so why should a unregistered, unlicensed race bike be aloud to use the road?

Ohh and another thing, how the hell is it healthy sucking in carbon-monoxide from the hundreds of cars, buses and trucks that go past? Go to a cycling ring and stay off the road!

[Lotz-A-Landies]

... I personally have never ridden down emergency stopping lanes of freeways as I reckon that is extremely dangerous. ...I thought that the emergency breakdown lanes of (most) Sydney motorways ARE CYCLEWAYS? At least on the M5, M6 and M7 the emergency breakdown lanes (where they actually exist) are marked as cycleways.

What I can't understand is why they seem to have spent a significant portion of the M7 building costs to install cycleways and yet they still have cycleway marked emergency breakdown lanes. In fact in some places there are 4 cycle ways/lanes, the same number as there are for the cars and trucks.

[waz]

Yep, splitting lanes is the only way to go on a motorbike. And it's legal in Qld if you obey the other traffic laws. Ie. traffic must be stationary, pick a lane at the stop line and stay in it when moving off, don't cross the stop line.

Having been rear-ended when stopped in traffic, and the same done to a friend, I will split lanes at even opportunity.

Waz

[bee utey]

Being a truck driver im on the road early every morning I have to deal with cyclists all the time. Unfortunately it's a majority that seem to do the wrong thing! Riding down threw the middle of traffic, running red lights, no signalling, the list goes on.
I don't see how it's fair that motorists have to deal with people on bikes that don't pay to use the road! No insurance, no rego, no licence! And 99% of the time to driver of the vehicle gets the blame.

Road/race bikes shouldn't be allowed on the road, tire size is just ridiculous, feet are trapped in the pedals and most don't use lights when riding in poor lighting!
Cars aren't aloud to drive with racing slick tires on, so why should a unregistered, unlicensed race bike be aloud to use the road?

Ohh and another thing, how the hell is it healthy sucking in carbon-monoxide from the hundreds of cars, buses and trucks that go past? Go to a cycling ring and stay off the road!

And how many motorists are killed by cyclists every year?

How would rego help? This issue has been done to death, cyclists DO pay tax indirectly for roads, rego doesn't cover road costs. How does a rego plate help? Could you see one past 10 metres? Would you report every cyclist out of spite? How can you tell who isn't insured?

Bike tyres are designed to keep the rim off the road. They are narrower than a single tread bar on most trucks. Grip isn't the issue.

Cyclists suck no more CO than you do, in fact being at the side of the road they get more fresh air. Except for the occasional low life, cyclists are generally fitter than motorists.

Lots of generalisations not supported by facts. Take life a bit easier, you'll enjoy it more. Ohg, and get on a bike sometime, it is addictive.:)

[TeamFA]

G'day!

I'll be one of the ones you see lane-splitting extensively doing the Brisbane commute.

It's not legal in Queensland, and I'm aware of it. If and when I come unstuck, it will be my fault. I'm sure I'm going to be the only one injured, and my vehicle will most likely be damaged too much to ride home, while the car/truck/bus I hit will most likely have a dented panel, which my insurance (or my self) will pay to get repaired.

If you want to discuss road users showing respect, I could go on at length. Car users not bothering to check that the lanes they're changing into don't have a motorcycle in them? Cars pulling out in front of motorcycles, because they know that the motorcycles have to stop, to avoid an accident that will hurt them much more than the car driver? Car drivers distracted by talking or texting on mobile phones? Car drivers that fail to indicate correctly (or at all) or for the correct distance/time, at intersections and roundabouts? Car drivers with stereos so loud that there's no way they can hear any traffic around them, including emergency vehicles? There's really no end to examples of a lack of respect on the road these days.

My lane splitting endangers other road users no more than if I wasn't lane splitting. My lane splitting slows down and inconveniences no other road users. I always get away from the lights before any car - nobody has to wait for me to get out of their way.

Melbourne or Sydney had an event a while ago, where every motorcyclist that commuted, and generally lane split to some degree, rode to work one day without any lane splitting. The result was more traffic congestion, as the bikes that were not taking up any space in the queues while splitting, took up nearly a car space, causing longer lines, and slower start/stop times in the lines.

In my daily commute, I regularly see car drivers move aside for me to allow me to pass, and I always give a thank-you wave and/or nod - and sometimes travelling slowly enough to say thank you through the driver's window. Perhaps these car drivers are or were bike riders, and see the benefits that lane splitting provides?

I've been lane splitting into Brisbane for 20 years now, and never had an accident. That's not to say that I'm not going to - but I've saved an enormous amount of time (which equates to me spending more time with my family), a great deal of environmental pollution, and an amount of traffic congestion. I'm willing to take the downside of it annoying you and other road users who don't see it this way, as long as I'm not actually endangering or inconveniencing you.

If you see me on a black and orange Buell, throw me a wave or beep the horn!

Cheers!

[p38arover]

I lane split and I find a lot of drivers make room for me to do so. However, there a number who will deliberately close the gap - sometimes when one is right beside them.

Generally I only lane split stationary (or traffic about to stop). Occasionally I will split between two cars who are travelling almost side by side and well below the speed limit - you know the ones - those that have to deliberately slow everyone behind them down.

[Hoges]

My (albeit limited ) experience of traffic in the major cities of our near Asian neighbours never ceases to cause me to smile when the motor scooters all crowd at the front like a "Le Mans " start at controlled:eek: intersections...

I'm past getting annoyed at local (bi)cyclists around Brisbane mixing it with peak traffic on major arterials. I simply view them now as "richard cranium " exhibitionists with scant regard to the laws of physics and the possibility of "rare events" occuring...

By their very presence in weekday peak traffic on major arterials, they are putting themselves and others at risk.. I don't care who you are ...you're a bleedin' menace. Go ride early Sat/Sunday morning by all means...

[weeds]

here we go again.......over to the soapbox with this thread so that it doesn't come up in new post searchs

i seriously dont see to many push bike riders doing the wrong thing, i certainly see at least as many cars and motor bikes doing the wrong thing therefore i reckon we all could pick up our game

giving a bike rider some room, or slowing down a bit so thay you can merge to the rightlane doesn't really hold you up much.....it equates to seconds really

so we might sneak down the middle of the lanes, roll through a stop sign etc etc, i dont reckon any of you would drive your car by the book

[bee utey]

Increased bicycle use saves money and time for all road users. If every cyclist was a single occupant of a large car, would traffic move better? I don't think so.


http://images.healthcaremanagementdegree.com.s3.amazonaws .com/biking-and-health.gif

[RaZz0R]

I am not going to go on about this too much as everyone has their point of view and not many can see it from a motorcycle's point of view, full time for 15 years. I am also not going to defend every dick and harry out there.


Every day I see motorcycles on the highway running either in between traffic rather than waiting their turn, just like all others have to, or worse, running up the emergency lane at the side, sometimes at very high speeds. Just because you can doesn't mean you should - should I drive my 4x4 on the grass verge to get around traffic because it can go there and the cars can't? And yes, I have seen 4x4 owners do this too. I have had handlebar and fairing "touches" as bikes have passed me while lane splitting, by the time you realise they are 100m ahead and out of view so what can you do about it. And then we get all the PR about how we need to be mindful and respectful of motorcyclists, check our blind spot etc but this should apply to bikes in the next lane, not sharing your lane. As a former bike rider I'm mindful of this but I never once split lanes (bit unsafe on a cruiser with wide bars) and the main protaganists tend to be the sports bikes.

OK - you used to ride a cruiser, fair enough. Why did you stop?
Remember this for motorcycles that lane split:

* If we dont we get someone slam us from behind saying that didn't see us as we blend in to the car in front
* If we tip the mirrors of your car - you or the guy next to ya probly didn't leave a gap - next time leave a gap.
* We lane split because people don't see us and because people dont do head checks! Lane splitting saves us! (Was proved when a guy lane split after noting a car coming up behind him, said car went right in to the back of the car ahead - if he didn't move he would have been dead... car in question was a marked copper!)

As for the push bike riders here is a plain fact I see every day here in Melbourne - also on Mountain HWY.. yep HWY! 3 frigen lanes and the ****** take a whole one.

The main reason why people are really starting to HATE push bikes on ROADS is as follows:

* They don't care what impact they are having to traffic! Time and time again they back up a lane and nearly cause crash's to happen BECAUSE the drivers are *******! And because they are on the road! People in cars have enough traffic to deal with let alone some mid 30's tosser in Lycra trying to pushy his way to work.
* Our government spent MILLIONS creating biking paths - all over the City and suburbs - FRIGGEN USE THEM!
* Pushy riders dont wear ANY safety gear at all - but yet want to cry when they come off and get hurt! Again - WTF be on the road if you are not wearing protection?
* The pushy riders that like to ride up in mountain areas - same thing - no respect for other road users or the danger they pose! What about a motorcycle rider coming down the mountain finds you taking the entire lane! Should he crash his 20k plus motorcycle because you couldn't careless about anyone but you and your push bike, or knock you off the bike and save himself and the motorbike?

I know what I'll choose every time and the pushy can go flying off the mountain for all I care. Because they don't think about the issues they are causing while they are on the road - and if you want to ride in the mountains - get a mountain bike! Its what they are for!

/endrant

[Dave_S]

The main reason why people are really starting to HATE push bikes on ROADS is as follows:

* They don't care what impact they are having to traffic! Time and time again they back up a lane and nearly cause crash's to happen BECAUSE the drivers are *******! And because they are on the road! People in cars have enough traffic to deal with let alone some mid 30's tosser in Lycra trying to pushy his way to work.
* Our government spent MILLIONS creating biking paths - all over the City and suburbs - FRIGGEN USE THEM!
* Pushy riders dont wear ANY safety gear at all - but yet want to cry when they come off and get hurt! Again - WTF be on the road if you are not wearing protection?
* The pushy riders that like to ride up in mountain areas - same thing - no respect for other road users or the danger they pose! What about a motorcycle rider coming down the mountain finds you taking the entire lane! Should he crash his 20k plus motorcycle because you couldn't careless about anyone but you and your push bike, or knock you off the bike and save himself and the motorbike?

I know what I'll choose every time and the pushy can go flying off the mountain for all I care. Because they don't think about the issues they are causing while they are on the road - and if you want to ride in the mountains - get a mountain bike! Its what they are for!



In answer to your points above:

* Agreed, the drivers in question are usually *******. People in cars would have even more traffic to deal with if the cyclists all started driving - come to think of it, why don't you buy a bike or catch a bus? And not all tossers in their mid 30s ride bikes - for example, some drive Land Rovers.

*Most cyclists do use bike paths where they are available. Maybe the government should try linking them up so they go somewhere. It would also help if motorists stopped parking in them.

*Pushy riders wear helmets and gloves as a minimum and don't cry when they fall off. Generally they keep riding and bleed all over anyone silly enough to come close.

*The riders in "mountain areas" have just as much right to be there as a motorcyclist. The fact that they're a bit slow makes no difference. Is it OK for the speeding motorcyclist to run into a farmer's tractor taking up the whole lane? As for the value of the motorcycle, the push bike is likely to be the more valuable machine.

As for your suggestion that we all get mountain bikes, most cyclists do. I've got a few myself. No lycra though - probably should look into that.

[RaZz0R]

Ah funny stuff :-)

On a more serious note tho - the guys on Mt Dandy here in Vic need to serious get off it - myself and mates have collected a heap of video footage of them using the entire road - they just make it more of a danger.

Helmet - check - fingerless gloves - check - anything to stop the legs being ripped up while sliding @ 40kph or more down the road? nope.

Bike paths - probly alot using them - its the ones backing up peak hour traffic because they are in a lane while right next to the road is a bike path. makes you wonder.

So yeah - if we all got motorcycles there would be less traffic and less ******* on the road coz they would simply DIE while trying to ride a motorcycle. Every learner should be made to do 6 months on a motorcycle before taking control of a car - it would show them how much of a danger the road really is :) and weed out the fools a little.

Oh.. and yeah - while the law might say a pushy can go ride up in the hills with blind corners and all the rest of it - where does it say that someone can go do this and make the road more of a danger by doing so?

Either way - this will go on and on - I just used this thread to vent a little. There are good cases for pushy riders, and lots of bad. Same with motorcycles, same with 4WD'ing :)

[Blknight.aus]

As for bicycles, nothing frustrates me more than changing out of the left lane to pass a cyclist on a busy road (so as not to pass too close to them in a dirty great big land rover), which can be impossible at times in peak hour, changing back to the lane I was in, stopping at the next set of lights to see the same cyclist pass you by riding in the gutter, ride across the pedestrian crossing and back onto the road, meaning you have to pass him again further up the road. Plus the usual riding 2 abreast, etc etc. Cyclists demand equal treatment by road users and yet some do not give that back. Things won't be truly equal until there is some form of licencing or at least competency for cyclists using a bike as a road going mode of transport. Even if it is just a requirement to do some sort of safety course on the road rules, because a car cannot run a red light by driving onto the footpath can it? If you can be done for drink driving on a bike, then all other rules should be enforced as well. Rego numbers maybe?


Actually this is illegal, but if the cyclist stops, dismounts, walks the bike across then continues to ride, thats fair game.

So long as they are in the same lane this is semi legal, for you to pass a cyclist you are supposed to change to the whole other lane not just far enough to get around the cyclist. 90% of the time a smart cyclist when pulled over for "2 abreast" will claim that he was overtaking the cyclist nearest the curb. Believe it or not it is perfectly legal for a push bike to be taking up the whole left lane and then have another one overtaking him by taking up the whole right lane. May not be smart but its legal....

Sure it can.

[MLD]

Hi Pfillery

Clover Moore (the Mayor of Sydney) has budgeted $12 mil for building cycleways in Sydney. At present 2% of city bound traffic are bicycles. The target is 10% in the short term. In the past year there has been a 60% (AM) and 48% (PM) increase in people cycling in Inner Sydney. If you are a disgruntled driver (or truckie) your wows will get worse.

The reality is that I can move around the city and across from the inner west to the eastern suburb beaches in the same or marginally longer time than in a car. Taking into account the time wasted looking for a parking spot, a cyclist is well ahead. The city is a car park in peak hour. Why would a cyclist endure that same traffic gridlock when he/she has the means to take advantage of stationary traffic and split lanes.

There must be some reward to compensate the risks of riding in Sydney (or any town/city in Australia for that matter). I have no problem with my bad behaviour.

To Disco99 - I love ignorance. I think you have missed a great and positive aspect to riding a bike. Most cyclists (well over a million bikes are sold annually) own a car as well but choose to ride and leave the car at home. Therefore the cyclist pays rego for his unused car, insurance on an unused car, the tax money and levies collected by the state and federal government are not being used to repair damage to the roads caused by use of that vehicle (unlike your circumstance as a truckie on the road daily all day). If anyone has a right to complain it's the cyclist that he/she is paying for services/infrastructure not used. As for the tyre width, the smaller the contact point with the road (in relation to the weight of the bike and rider) the greater the pressure and bonding strength with the road. Think of a clutch, a 3 puck clutch has greater clamping power than a 4 or more puck clutch. Coupled with the soft rubber compound of a "race" tyre the tyre that you criticise has better road bonding than your truck tyres pound for pound. A 23mm race tyre has less rolling resistance than a mountain bike tyre (by a country mile) therefore can get up to speed and maintain speed with less energy demand from the cyclist. You should encourage race tyres on all bikes. It will speed up the bike that is moving slowly in front of you.

Thanks Pfillery for providing a forum for my rant.

ps: I drive a 110 in her natural environment, on weekends offroad (mostly). Where do i send my form to recover some of my under-utilised CTP, Rego, taxes and levies?

cheers MLD

[p38arover]

We have a local road that is winding, downhill, and one-way. Well, it seems it's only one-way to motorised traffic. Cyclists seem to ignore that road rule and it's not uncommon to come around a blind curve to find a cyclist struggling up the hill and right in the middle of the road.

A cyclist going down the hill isn't a problem - some can ride down faster than we can drive and, often, faster than I can ride my motorbike down the hill.

[PhilipA]

When I used to ride my motorcycle to work every day from Mona Vale to the CBD, I used to split lanes regularly, but only in stopped traffic. On the one occasion that I touched a mirror , I went to great pains to restore it to its original position, so got no ire from the driver.

Really the only reason that you would ride into the city or Sydney rain or shine is to take advantage of lane splitting and legally using the bus lanes and save 1/2 hour or more. just because you can do this shouldn't upset car drivers . After all they can do what I did and buy a motorcycle or scooter , if they are not wedded to their comfort so much. Think of the reduction in traffic volume as 4 bikes could fit in the space of one car.

Bike riders never really bothered me unless they were riding side by side in the bus lane , or riding up Spit Hill with 5 buses stuck behind them, when there was a better alternative up Parriwi Rd.
I still cannot understand why bike riders insist on riding on the busiest roads in Australia eg Military Rd , when there are dead quiet rat runs that may be a bit more hilly , eg through Mosman. After all they say they are doing it for the exercise.

City couriers that ride on the footpath are another matter. They are a menace and have killed people in Sydney.

Despite my efforts to be non controversial, I had several road rage incidents against me. One where a "lady" roundly abused me for land splitting while talking on a mobile phone.

BUT more seriously , I once came up behind a Falcon Wagon not lane splitting, and the guy got out and abused me for my light (during the day )dazzling him. I couldn't really point out that the light didn't have a switch. He then tailgated me until I was able to lane split and give him the slip.

The most serious prompted me to sell my bike as soon as I retired. that was a person in a Holden Commodore Ute who seemingly objected to me coming up beside him after lane splitting, and when the lights changed he drove into my bike , hitting me in the right leg. I slowed down to let him go so he waited for me and veered into my lane as I came abreast . It really rattled me as this person was intent on hurting me.

I began to realize what nut cases were on the road and sold my motorcycle as I figured I had used my quota of luck.

Regards Philip A

[86mud]

I agree with Weeds...here we go again....

I do 220kms every week on a push bike to and from work. I choose to do this for many reasons, mainly to save time, and where I work, car parking is a pain in the ...... especially in a Def 130. To drive to my work in peak hour traffic can take over an hour, whereby on a bike, it takes me 45mins

I am on the road everyday trying to survive the trip to and from work - watching and trying to predict the movements of every car/truck/bus/pedestrian etc that is close to me. Most drivers can not predict the speed that a cyclist is doing and just about everyday I have a car cut me off. It is very frustrating and down right dangerous. I am on a bike for gods sake, I am not surrounded by steel.

I obey all traffic rules and go as hard as I can to ensure I don't annoy anyone.

On my trip to/from work I see probably half a dozen other riders and we are all doing the right thing. There are seldom cases I see of idiots on push bikes doing the wrong thing and if they do it in front of me, they cop it.

This topic really makes my blood boil.

[RaZz0R]

"I am on the road everyday trying to survive the trip to and from work - watching and trying to predict the movements of every car/truck/bus/pedestrian etc that is close to me. Most drivers can not predict the speed that a cyclist is doing and just about everyday I have a car cut me off. It is very frustrating and down right dangerous. I am on a bike for gods sake, I am not surrounded by steel."

This is how us motorcycle riders think - but then we have to deal with the mess of traffic stuck behind you guys on push bikes! Drivers can't do head checks as it is let alone deal with trying to pass a pushy rider in the same lane - coz you know the lane next to them is not going to allow them to use the lane to pass you.

So seriously I ask this to push bike riders - Do you care or even think about what others have to deal with BECAUSE you are on the road or the issues you guys cause? fact is you can't take off like a car or bike. Yet again I see many push bike riders lane split up to the front of cars - then cause traffic problems while they start to peddle.

On top of everything else day to day? Because just like you - we don't have steel around us or impact zones.

[DiscoWeb]

So seriously I ask this to push bike riders - Do you care or even think about what others have to deal with BECAUSE you are on the road or the issues you guys cause? fact is you can't take off like a car or bike. Yet again I see many push bike riders lane split up to the front of cars - then cause traffic problems while they start to peddle.


RaZzor,

Replace "push bike riders" with "people driving 4wds" and it amazing how much your argument sounds like the irrational arguments used to suggest 4wd should be banned from city roads. They take up too much space, regularly run down innocent kids in school zones and all drivers of 4wd are aggressive and never look and just barge across lanes.

What a load or rubbish to both.

Honestly how often in your daily ride would you come across a lone cyclist or bunch of cyclists that would truly cause the traffic chaos you are suggesting, one in every 10, 20 trips ?

As a cycle commuter I love the bike lanes and do about 3 -4km more on my trip so I can use the bike lanes and limit the time I have to interface with traffic, but until about 2 years ago they did not exist. Now they do every man and their dog complains about them.

I think your views are irrational and illogical. Not all cyclists ride to deliberately cause issue for traffic just as not all motorcyclists are lane splitting lunatics. Now perhaps some are but why treat every one like they are.


George

[Blknight.aus]

fact is you can't take off like a car or bike.

can round here, on average drivers reactions round here as so slow I could get out, unroll the winch cable, hook it up to something on the other ide of the intersection then winch the landy through the intersection before the other car has even worked out that the shiny green bulb on the bottom means its time to get the hell out of the way of the vehicle behind and I only have a tirfor ATM...

ok, maybe thats a slight exaggeration but on more than one occasion Ive had to get out of my car, walk forwards to the car infront an politely invite them to get the hell across the intersection because come the next green light the 4x4 Im driving is going to regardless to the presence of their vehicle.


if you want to see something funny come round some time when Fozzy drags off ricers at the lights AND WINS... IF you cant out pace fozzy on a pushy on the flat from the lights perhaps its time to trade in the treadly for a zimmerframe. Ive no shame in admiting I've lost races against racing bikes when towing with fozzy and in a 40 zone Ive lost races from a standing start unloaded to racing bikes.

[Dave_S]

So seriously I ask this to push bike riders - Do you care or even think about what others have to deal with BECAUSE you are on the road or the issues you guys cause? fact is you can't take off like a car or bike. Yet again I see many push bike riders lane split up to the front of cars - then cause traffic problems while they start to peddle.

Roads are basically multi-user infrastructure. They are intended for use by a wide variety of users and there are detailed rules for each user to follow. One of the overarching rules is that you proceed with due care and attention. If you feel that the combination of cars, bikes, trucks and whatever else you find on the road is beyond your ordinary powers of comprehension, you shouldn't be driving at all.

I can't speak for other cyclists, but personally I don't believe I cause any issue or problem at all for other road users to deal with. At least nothing more than any other road user. I ride very close to the curb and generally leave enough space for most cars to safely pass me in the same lane. A lot of the time I am actually quicker than the cars anyway. I can corner faster than most cars too. And so what if I can't beat a V8 ute in a drag race? I'm pedalling on the left hand side so there's no issue there.

I understand that many motorists are frustrated about traffic jams and want to blame someone. Cyclists are an easy target, but they have nothing to do with it. Blame yourself (and the 100,000 other people like you sitting in a car on the same road).

Incidentally, the last time a driver abused me, he screamed that cyclists never obey road rules. I pointed out that he was able to abuse me because I had stopped at a red light . When I took off he couldn't, because a line of cars had parked across the intersection. :D

[weeds]

i am amazed at the number of forum members with a poor attitude towards bike riders.............****in tossers

[p38arover]

There are seldom cases I see of idiots on push bikes doing the wrong thing and if they do it in front of me, they cop it.
You must be blind as I see cyclists doing the wrong thing every day - and yes, I see car drivers doing wrong, too.

I particularly hate cyclists using my car as a support so they can stay upright whilst stopped.

[RaZz0R]

RaZzor,

Replace "push bike riders" with "people driving 4wds" and it amazing how much your argument sounds like the irrational arguments used to suggest 4wd should be banned from city roads. They take up too much space, regularly run down innocent kids in school zones and all drivers of 4wd are aggressive and never look and just barge across lanes.
What a load or rubbish to both. [quote]

Yes you are correct, and that is why I don't drive my rangie in to the city, I ride my motorcycle because I know if I did drive the rangie - people wouldn't see anything past me :)

[quote]Honestly how often in your daily ride would you come across a lone cyclist or bunch of cyclists that would truly cause the traffic chaos you are suggesting, one in every 10, 20 trips ?

Seriously EVERYDAY! I am not making it up. I can name roads but why? Its wont change. ;)


As a cycle commuter I love the bike lanes and do about 3 -4km more on my trip so I can use the bike lanes and limit the time I have to interface with traffic, but until about 2 years ago they did not exist. Now they do every man and their dog complains about them.
yet I don't know why people would complain about bike lanes. The road is made with extra space for that and it works well... till you get 2 or 3 side by side on St Kilda rd lol :)


I think your views are irrational and illogical. Not all cyclists ride to deliberately cause issue for traffic just as not all motorcyclists are lane splitting lunatics. Now perhaps some are but why treat every one like they are. Yeah but same there with assuming - I never said ALL pushy riders were like that. I am just pickin on the ones who are like that and funny enough - they would be the ones to give me the finger after they pulled out from parked cars lol Like I said last page - good and bad for all bikes, cars, motorcycles :)

Nice chat George ;)

[RaZz0R]

can round here, on average drivers reactions round here as so slow I could get out, unroll the winch cable, hook it up to something on the other ide of the intersection then winch the landy through the intersection before the other car has even worked out that the shiny green bulb on the bottom means its time to get the hell out of the way of the vehicle behind and I only have a tirfor ATM...

LOL!!! You have no idea how hard I laugh at that.


ok, maybe thats a slight exaggeration but on more than one occasion Ive had to get out of my car, walk forwards to the car infront an politely invite them to get the hell across the intersection because come the next green light the 4x4 Im driving is going to regardless to the presence of their vehicle.

if you want to see something funny come round some time when Fozzy drags off ricers at the lights AND WINS... IF you cant out pace fozzy on a pushy on the flat from the lights perhaps its time to trade in the treadly for a zimmerframe. Ive no shame in admiting I've lost races against racing bikes when towing with fozzy and in a 40 zone Ive lost races from a standing start unloaded to racing bikes.

I have to say its something I have noticed as well - they seem to get to lights and go dumber or something. With my rangie I get the same thing - take off with the 4.6 and just as I am ready to merge ****** in common-door decided he wasn't going to be beaten by a lifted forby for take off speed, even then he only just got out of my way to allow me to merge... mmmmm

[sam_d]

I drive a Land Rover.
I commute to work by bike.

Whenever I read or hear car drivers complaining about cyclists or cyclists complaining about 4WDs, the one thing you can guarantee (without exception) is that it is the people who are complaining the most or being the most vocal are the ones who know the least about what they're talking about.

[RaZz0R]

Roads are basically multi-user infrastructure. They are intended for use by a wide variety of users and there are detailed rules for each user to follow. One of the overarching rules is that you proceed with due care and attention. If you feel that the combination of cars, bikes, trucks and whatever else you find on the road is beyond your ordinary powers of comprehension, you shouldn't be driving at all.

Pretty much agree with you - but I am one of those guys who believes some things are just wrong. I know they won't change but I am not going to decided to believe they are right either ;)
EG: speeding is wrong - but if I stay in traffic on a motorbike, I'll be taken out - so yes I will speed up to 10kph faster than everything else to get in to a safe spot. But the people who believe the road is a safe place or should be a safe place need to be put on a motorcycle for a peak hour ride. The roads never has been or ever will be a safe place ;)


I can't speak for other cyclists, but personally I don't believe I cause any issue or problem at all for other road users to deal with. At least nothing more than any other road user. I ride very close to the curb and generally leave enough space for most cars to safely pass me in the same lane.

Yeah I see guys doing this out side my house on Mountain hwy, 3 lanes wide the road is - the problem then however is not you, its the car drivers because they don't know how to merge, head check or control their cars with out hitting the brakes, causing traffic issues behind you while drivers try to duck in to the lane next to them - but by extension if you were not there in the first place it wouldn't be an issue.. kinda thing.



A lot of the time I am actually quicker than the cars anyway. I can corner faster than most cars too. And so what if I can't beat a V8 ute in a drag race? I'm pedalling on the left hand side so there's no issue there.
As long as you realize that a motorcycle has that same advantage of being WAY quicker ;) I had a pushy rider cost me over 6 grand in paint work because he was going up a winding road in the local mountains, I come around 40kph corner on 80kph doing closer to 80 anyway because you can on a motorbike to find this jocky in the middle of the road on a push bike. I had to wear that cost, not him, and I would have called the cops but he took off and of course - no way to ID the pushy riders.


I understand that many motorists are frustrated about traffic jams and want to blame someone. Cyclists are an easy target, but they have nothing to do with it. Blame yourself (and the 100,000 other people like you sitting in a car on the same road).

While you are partly correct - you are partly wrong as well. On a whole they have nothing to do with it - its just the few that do cause problems. :-) the few.


Incidentally, the last time a driver abused me, he screamed that cyclists never obey road rules. I pointed out that he was able to abuse me because I had stopped at a red light . When I took off he couldn't, because a line of cars had parked across the intersection. :D

Nice :) I have had the same on a motorbike as well. Its situational and spare of the moment for the most part I reckon. :cool:

and no I am not saying I am super cool on the road or anything - far from it. more so on the bike because I do everything to make people notice or see me. Even if that means flying past them scaring the crap out of them with my super loud pipes. Because then at least they know I am there. :cool:

[RaZz0R]

I drive a Land Rover.
I commute to work by bike.

Whenever I read or hear car drivers complaining about cyclists or cyclists complaining about 4WDs, the one thing you can guarantee (without exception) is that it is the people who are complaining the most or being the most vocal are the ones who know the least about what they're talking about.

Or could be speaking from personal experience or gathering experience from Truckee, car drivers, motorcycles and pushy riders ;) how do you know?

[RaZz0R]

ah - thx for the fun topic for today - keep me a tiny bit busy since I can't work at work at the moment LOL! oh wellz. time to go catch a train home ;)

[Blknight.aus]

its at this point in an effort to maintain the story in a lighter tone I shall regale a story from my courier days.

George had done something innocuous to **** off a top down soft top porsche driver, something simple like say riding a push bike on the road instead of the foot path..

George (and I call him this simply because its his name) and the porsche driver had a bit of a debate and George fanged it down malcom st into perth from west perth with the porsche in persuite (push hard and you can hit 80kph on a pushy down that road). The porsche over took George and slammed on the brakes, not a smart move.

See What I knew, George knew and the Porsche driver didnt know was that George was a trail rider, With the Porsche pulling up in a squeal of rubber and a hint of smoke George simply braked, then lifted the front wheel up onto the back, hopped up onto the top of the back seats and the back of the porsche, hopped up onto the front seats and the top of the back seats, hopped again onto the top of the windshield and the passangers side head rest then with one last hop dropped the front wheel of the bike onto the bonnet as he lifted the rear wheel onto the windshield then rode off of the front of the porsche.

Then, to add insult to the best bit of riding I've seen in a Damn long time, Nev, the local push bike cop flagged the porsche down at the set of lights and proceeded to write a phone books worth of tickets.

Nev was good like that.

[TonyC]

I particularly hate cyclists using my car as a support so they can stay upright whilst stopped.

Just for you Ron
funny car ad - YouTube

I will say that every day I see car drivers who by their actions, I can only assume think that cyclists and pedestrians have no right to exist.

Tony

[Veryan]

its at this point in an effort to maintain the story in a lighter tone I shall regale a story from my courier days.

George had done something innocuous to **** off a top down soft top porsche driver, something simple like say riding a push bike on the road instead of the foot path..

George (and I call him this simply because its his name) and the porsche driver had a bit of a debate and George fanged it down malcom st into perth from west perth with the porsche in persuite (push hard and you can hit 80kph on a pushy down that road). The porsche over took George and slammed on the brakes, not a smart move.

See What I knew, George knew and the Porsche driver didnt know was that George was a trail rider, With the Porsche pulling up in a squeal of rubber and a hint of smoke George simply braked, then lifted the front wheel up onto the back, hopped up onto the top of the back seats and the back of the porsche, hopped up onto the front seats and the top of the back seats, hopped again onto the top of the windshield and the passangers side head rest then with one last hop dropped the front wheel of the bike onto the bonnet as he lifted the rear wheel onto the windshield then rode off of the front of the porsche.

Then, to add insult to the best bit of riding I've seen in a Damn long time, Nev, the local push bike cop flagged the porsche down at the set of lights and proceeded to write a phone books worth of tickets.

Nev was good like that.

My favourite trick in Edinburgh was either dumping my entire water bottle into the drivers lap at a set of lights, or simply reaching in, turning off the ignition, removing the keys and hurling the keys across the other side of the road.

And for buses, opening the emergency exit door or hitting the emergency engine stop button. Oh how much fun we had as couriers.

[d2dave]

I ride a motor bike and I never split lanes when cars are moving. I do however do this when cars are stopped and providing there is plenty of room I see no problem.

I have never hit a car or mirror. If the space is tight I do not do it.

Dave.

[vnx205]

i am amazed at the number of forum members with a poor attitude towards bike riders.............****in tossers

I'm not. Everyone has to take their turn at being stereotyped and badmouthed.

We have already worked our way through university graduates, public servants, school teachers, mechanics, car dealers, Camry drivers, Prius drivers, fast drivers, slow drivers, old drivers, P plate drivers, politicians, climate scientists, climate sceptics, D4 owners, customers, single parents, welfare recipients, banks, CEOs, city dwellers, Labour voters, Liberal voters, Greens voters, independents voters, athiests, agnostics, Christians, asylum seekers, boat people, scientists, Gen Y, Baby Boomers, and several other groups.

Next week it will be someone else's turn. :p

[Jeff]

My cycling story from today is a bit different to the ones already on this thread.

Today I was standing next to my work motorbike about to get on when I saw a girl on a pushbike approaching, not wearing a helmet. She was wearing a low cut top however and had very large breasts, I was concerned as there was a very bumpy part of footpath she was approaching and I was concerned with such little protective gear she would get shaken all about on the bumps:D. Unfortunately for me and all others watching, she turned left and went on the smooth bicycle path and away:(.

Jeff

:rocket:

[gofish]

I lane split on the motorbike all the time. It saves heaps of time & causes no one any problems...apart from jealousy :D . If it is too tight then I don't split. Motorbikes don't like crawling along in traffic like cars do & can get really hot really quick. This is another reason I split. I think governments should encourage more m/c's. How many cars drive into the city every day with just one person in them ?

[trog]

if lane splitting is illegal once traffic is moving then and the motercylist continue and say it eases congestion then my suggestion to ease speeding and road rage is to allow the use of marijuana when driving. when have yoy ever seen a smoker argue or speed ?

[frantic]

The problem a lot of syd/NSW drivers have with cyclists is that not only do they slow traffic considerably but combine that with the fact that they represent about 2-3% of road users but have had 30% of a road blocked for their exclusive use and they then proceed to ride in the other 2 lanes left for cars creating more of a log jam on a road that used to be 3 lanes, now cut to 2 and still trying to carry the same volume of traffic.
Simple question what would the cops do if you drove your landie in peak hour sydney with no tailights/stop lights and only 2nd gear as the gearbox was stuffed?

As for motorbikes , its mainly a jealosy thing with car drivers wishing they could cut through traffic but most like me realising they would end up mulch under a semi's trailer. Yes you do occaisionaly get the wad who splits then puts on their indicator blocking the whole lane but what can you do?

[weeds]

I'm not. Everyone has to take their turn at being stereotyped and badmouthed.

We have already worked our way through university graduates, public servants, school teachers, mechanics, car dealers, Camry drivers, Prius drivers, fast drivers, slow drivers, old drivers, P plate drivers, politicians, climate scientists, climate sceptics, D4 owners, customers, single parents, welfare recipients, banks, CEOs, city dwellers, Labour voters, Liberal voters, Greens voters, independents voters, athiests, agnostics, Christians, asylum seekers, boat people, scientists, Gen Y, Baby Boomers, and several other groups.

Next week it will be someone else's turn. :p

Lol.......

[Ashes]

I ride a motor bike and I never split lanes when cars are moving. I do however do this when cars are stopped and providing there is plenty of room I see no problem.

I have never hit a car or mirror. If the space is tight I do not do it.

Dave.

I commute about 70km each day on the bike and exactly the same for me. On the freeway I am no quicker than a car and rarely even change lanes but will split stationary traffic at lights in the city when it is safe.

I also learnt a long time ago that getting angry at other road users is pointless and even more so when you cant do anything positive in the situation. Karma usually has a way of sorting these things out and hopefully a fine/suspension and not an accident.

Chill out, expect to be surrounded by idiot behaviour from every road user, keep a safe distance and margin for yourself and all is good.:D

[Jeff]

The problem a lot of syd/NSW drivers have with cyclists is that not only do they slow traffic considerably but combine that with the fact that they represent about 2-3% of road users but have had 30% of a road blocked for their exclusive use and they then proceed to ride in the other 2 lanes left for cars creating more of a log jam on a road that used to be 3 lanes, now cut to 2 and still trying to carry the same volume of traffic.
Simple question what would the cops do if you drove your landie in peak hour sydney with no tailights/stop lights and only 2nd gear as the gearbox was stuffed?


Nothing, especially if they have a caravan on the back. Isn't it the Caravanner's Code to find a busy single lane road and travel at as low a speed as they can just to hold up traffic:).

Jeff

:rocket:

[camel_landy]

Cyclist & biker here...

Grew up & commuted for many a year in & around London, so very used to heavy traffic.

Bicycle - Generally, I'm travelling faster than a car anyway and will always overtake stationary or slow moving traffic on the offside. It's a lot safer anyway. However, I don't jump red lights nor do I "switch sides".

Motorbike - I do 'filter' and I do 'make progrss'. If I'm not able to filter through the slower moving traffic, then what's the point of being on the bike? I might as well sit in a car, add to the congestion and slow your journey down even more!! :p

M

[Blknight.aus]

Simple question what would the cops do if you drove your landie in peak hour sydney with no tailights/stop lights and only 2nd gear as the gearbox was stuffed?



unless you were also in low range, book you for reckless endangerment and driving without due caution.