jap truck troubles.

[Davehoos]

We have 6 heavy rigid japanese trucks.

6 month old truck threw a leg this week.
my boss drove out to look at a big oil leak with the truck and found a small hole that he could see a spinning shaft though in the side of the block.

the truck was driving and possitioned itself onto the tow truck.my boss has worked on trucks for years and i think he would recognise a misfire or a conrod.

the dealer rang to inform us that it had thrown a rod and download of the ecu found it was over revedthe coment was that there off tomorrow to make certian its the same hole..

it might be possibleit was over reved-- as its a11000 liter water cart and follows a roller/grader.real hispeed stuff.Its automatic and flyby wire common rail EURO 5-and the over rev warning buzzer is so loud.if the engine cant rev past 1500 wouldnt the ecu cut the trottle.

It not the first storey ive heard of issues with new model diesels but none from this section of the comany,from japan...my truck often hits the over rev warning at 2000 RPM when you select 3rd gear turning at intersections.

[ramblingboy42]

wrong forum I think......or general knowledge?

[rick130]

Which brand ?

A mate is head engineer for one of the Japanese manufacturers Oz operations.
Didn't you work at JRA Dave ? If so, you'd know him ;)

[Davehoos]

If i say its Hino and I think its a good product...and its for general coment-as its in the general chat section and like to hear about similar issues.the dealer was on the phone to provide suport.

most vehicles now are flyby wire so how could you over rev an auto and destroy it so easily.most older diesels you could hold it at full throttle all day.

hearing lots of coments about other V8 diesel 4X4 not being replaced under warranty.$20K a pop.
like the stories of jeeps being towed in from the beach and bush and waiting for long motors because of water pudles.

Ive previously have done lots of patrols,rodeo/jackaroo and superzook under partial warranty for cars just out of warranty time
done lots of holden engines under public relations deal.

I dought anyone from moorbank would work for Hino.
the isuzu are mostly RFS so we have people arrive before we tell them we have issues I had lots of contact last year with the reps after the tsunami and once you talked with them a few times they straight talk to you..
we only have 2 hino on RFS fleet and 1 is a catering van.

It a Gov dept use so its our money.

[rick130]

Naa, not Hino, he works for UD.

They had a couple of Garrett turbo problems in the last month, but were forewarned by Japan as it seems a dodgy batch got through, otherwise no issues.

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

If i say its Hino and I think its a good product...and its for general coment-as its in the general chat section and like to hear about similar issues.the dealer was on the phone to provide suport.

most vehicles now are flyby wire so how could you over rev an auto and destroy it so easily.most older diesels you could hold it at full throttle all day.

hearing lots of coments about other V8 diesel 4X4 not being replaced under warranty.$20K a pop.
like the stories of jeeps being towed in from the beach and bush and waiting for long motors because of water pudles.

Ive previously have done lots of patrols,rodeo/jackaroo and superzook under partial warranty for cars just out of warranty time
done lots of holden engines under public relations deal.

I dought anyone from moorbank would work for Hino.
the isuzu are mostly RFS so we have people arrive before we tell them we have issues I had lots of contact last year with the reps after the tsunami and once you talked with them a few times they straight talk to you..
we only have 2 hino on RFS fleet and 1 is a catering van.

It a Gov dept use so its our money.

Hinos parent company is Toyota, herein lies your problem :p


Using Capitals, the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse or helping your uncle jack off a horse...

[pfillery]

Saw a Hino parked on a very busy main road last week with very large (8" to foot high) signwriting suggesting what crap it was, calling it a lemon etc. Wouldn't be the same brand would it???

[Davehoos]

they rang today.suprise---no brocken conrod due to over reving but the oil pump out the side.

the report so far said that the sump behind the axle is damaged and broken the pick up.the impact must have blown the oil pressure light bulb switch or wiring.

Hino trucks are like toyota cars.
go ok and give little trouble.
had lots of dramas with common rail engine due to lack of battery voltage and poor understanding of the product by the dealers
.
we had loads of food delivery fridge vehicles at the last job due to food safe and cheep finance.
they had to run the engine all night with dealer fitted hand throttles for fast idle as the battery would go flat if you left the lights on when idling.and we rigged up anderson plugs for a depo charger.
the fridges pull less than 40 amps so they suppled 55 amp alternator.

We are trading in PK220 that are 1996 models.UD have been very good but they need to get the dealer network---working.
next trucks will be isuzu.

[Davehoos]

hino started to strip it down.they insist it has brocken conrod but all pistons was sitting in correct hights when the boss looked at it this week.
they plan to have the crank tested but they already said it had been driven without oil.

they have only a bare block they can get.they are expecting it to be offroad for a few months.

the sumps pushed in and the oil pick up has brocken off.no touch marks on the alloy pipe that you expect if it was laying near the crank.

the sumps more than a 18 in of the ground and lots hang bellow it.with out any marks.they havnt identified the cause of the small hole in the block.

Over rev.it has a 2600 rpm red line but they claim it was driven at 4800 rpm.its used to follow a roller as a water cart.

[bigcarle]

had similar trouble in the 80's with UD 9 speed gear boxes, the company bought 3 and one even sh*t the gearbox when delivered with the mechanic driving. they suggested several things like the wrong kind of oil and we swapped to their recommended auto fluid, trouble still persisted, then we got a booklet from the factory on how to change gears on the box which was how to double de-clutch (we where all used to roadranger gearboxes)
so we laughed at that. then we had reps from the company come out and look over the trucks CGA45 8 wheelers and them saying god truck, good truck and then good gear box and we said basically crap they said no good gearbox i said what do you put in them now a days and they said roadrangers :o;):eek::angel::censored::oops2:in the end 2 out of the 3 had the gearbox replaced with a roadrangers and mine stayed with the original

[bigcarle]

apart from the stuff already mentioned what about
if it was overrevved what happened to the governors?
and what about the front axle usually they hang down a fair way from the sump
me thinks any excuse to get out of warranty claim like Nissan Patrol and the 3 ltr diesel
bury head in sand until you cant ignore it any longer!!!!!!!!!!!

[rick130]

The only way you'd over rev the engine is to select a lower gear when travelling in a high gear at too high a road speed for the lower one, and being electronic those 'boxes won't/can't let that happen.

[PAT303]

Isuzu's are having the same problem,lots of engine troubles and no pre delivery inspections so trucks are pulling up with ungreased uni's/tailshafts,no oil in diffs etc etc.I worked on Hino's 10 years back and we had issue's with faulty trucks that Hino/Toyota did not want to know about. Pat

[PhilipA]

Over rev.it has a 2600 rpm red line but they claim it was driven at 4800 rpm.its used to follow a roller as a water cart.

I would think that to say that they would have read the ECU and it is hard to see how such a reading would be shown unless it happened.

I would be talking to the driver .
Regards Philip A

[Davehoos]

just comenting on what going on-there is no way they are paying for it.

the truck is auto.driving along you put it held gears as they use a PTO water pump

I could expect a truck to sudenly down shift and over rev.the rate payers will be getting the bill for a vehicle purchased to reduce costs.the auto and euro 5 was chosen to meet emision reductions and training operators/uprading drivers lience.

my work truck HINO FD often sets the buzer of if you throw it in to 3rd gear and sprint across an intersection.

My idea of all this electronic control crap is to make it safe for operation.
it has no goveror being common rail so why didnt the ecu shut it down.

the driver is an old bloke that has worked for council without problems since young age.he so stressed out with the euro 5 and the auto and keeping the PTO speed at optimum pressure that I cant believe the issue so far.the truck is new and the old PK 220 was a big upgrade from petrol bedford and 80's mitubishi truck.
we cant find what he has hit on the road-it made a poping sound then oil ran out fon the road.and my boss drove the vehicle to the tow truck and cant understand why the oil light didnt funcion.


The old 96 UD PK220 had eaton 9 speeds.a few had been repaired when brand new so there must have been a problem.I rebuilt on for a issue with gear change some of the air shift parts had worn out..when i pulled it out it had a new clutch and bent selection forks-our thought are that when the old clutch was giving troubles the shift had been forced.one comen was made by UD that double declutching caused failures with these boxes-

[LandyAndy]

I believe its very possible to over rev it.You only need to be on a steep decent in a gear close to its redline fully laden and gravity will do the rest.Even if the ecu has cut fuel it will still rev and keep reving.
Dont know that I would be rushing out for an Isuzu,our older ones have been great,they stand up to all maner of abuse.The new Giga with 425 HP is a different story,not suited to Shire work.
All the new stuff has tell tale recording to protect the manufacturer in these situations.
I regularly get downloads from CJD equipment from the ECUs in my G930 grader,EVERYTHING is there for ALL to see.I just got a CAT 12M before Xmas,the electronics in that allow the operator to read the tell tales and error codes(CAT call it Tattle Tale).Its so you can fault diagnose from the field if need be.You cant delete the Tatle Tales memory:(:(:(:(:(
Andrew

[Davehoos]

we have only one recent isuzu dual axle dump truck.common rail no catalist.has just under 100K and we replaced copper radiator over christmas.it requires cab mounts,and regularly gets sway bar bushes and shocks.but it been a good truck.

the new catalise CAT 1 isuzu RFS trucks are OK but battey conditions need to be monitored.gearbox is crap to swap gears when cold
.its easy to RUN OUT OF BATTERY.these might be 4X4 but they arent realy off road trucks--to bring home the point the new training is along the line of park on the road and run hoses to a fire.save bucket loads of money if they could import an old technoligy truck for fire work.

Ourcat 7 are old mitubishi canters-these are briliant 4X4 as long as the chasis dont crack.

the only way to get rid of tattle tale is to swap a ecu.one of our compactors the ecu has been entered 1000's of times with load of modifications--cheeper to throw in another ecu when it is sold off.

our komatsu loader is direct conected to sydney by wireless conection-it includes any markers preset and operations out side of its GPS area or operation time.

we had a 81 SBR ex forestry fire truck scraped because it was over 25yr old---they dont make them like that any more.the last load of 90's isuzu went west as one been seen past bourke.

[rick130]

[snip]

the new catalise CAT 1 isuzu RFS trucks are OK but battey conditions need to be monitored.gearbox is crap to swap gears when cold
.its easy to RUN OUT OF BATTERY.
[snip]


Yep, ours need the batteries replaced last week.

[Homestar]

I would think that to say that they would have read the ECU and it is hard to see how such a reading would be shown unless it happened.

I would be talking to the driver .
Regards Philip A

The ECU's are usually accurate, however I have seem a download from a Cummins M11 that said it had been doing 18,000RPM... - the crank angle sensor had failed giving a spike to the ECU giving it a bad reading.

I have also seen the remains of another M11 that HAD done 8,000RPM after a turbo failure - when the rocker cover was removed, all the rockers, and the top of the injectors just fell out onto the floor...:p Not a pretty sight...

[Davehoos]

I watched a diesel gemini runaway-it sounded like a 2 stroke and sprayed a black mist of oil over a car dealer car park.it made horrid sounds as timber was used to block the air intake.yes thats what happens when its over filled with oil.

im wondering if it took off when whatever broke and he turned off the key to shut it down.
the MAN from toyota looking at it tomorror.
as its a new model they are waiting for parts.

so far they are expecting to have to pay for repairs-but are more concerned about days of the road.

we had the vehicle for just over 10000KM-and a few 1000Km of that was being driven by the dealer to get the body fitted and then repaired.it come up that i may have been reved in transport or getting the PTO to work.

the next coment was made that the dealer drove it into the workshop from the tow truck????

[Davehoos]

I saw plenty of photos this week.
it looks as if a stick like a marker post has got caught over the axle and dented the sump by a tiny amount.

the oil pick up is cast alloy pipe-it was pushed up and broke off the pipe mounting bolts and flange.the pipe has fallen off and been picked up by the crank and pushed through the side of the block.the pipe is alloy and i couldnt see a mark on it.

last guess was $30k-but it pollicy that repairs over $2500 have to go to independant repair and insurance.they decide if its accedental etc.