D3 Transfer case oil $80 a litre!

[400HPONGAS]

It does seem like restricted practice if the Shell oil for the Magna Steyr DD295 transfer box can only be bought from Land Rover.
Yep,thats the case, even shell says that oil is purposely made for Landrover and only be bought in those cute little plastic bottles , labelled "Special Tranfer case oil"Castrols Technical guy says that ALL oils other than the engine oil are now "See your dealer" WOT !!!!
Oh dear that $160 just to do Transfer case oil change , then apparently the same oil is able to be used on rear E/diff (only the E/Diff,not the open front diff) Castrol cant and wont supply the rear E/diff oil Castrol SAFOX BOT 720 as well, so you have to get those cute little bottles again at almost $50 a litre.
Surely there must be a better/smarter (probably not cheaper) way ????????

[Blknight.aus]

you know if you're servicing your D3's drive line in total once a year in 3 years you could have bought fozzy and run him for a year with all of his associated costs just for the price of your post auto driveline oil....

there is.. check out the jeeps Ediff oil and its spec. and Im fairly certain that the new yotas are using the same tech as well...

(Just trying to find the jeep oil PDF)

[tomisawesome]

turbo diesel mazda passenger cars must have Genuine Mazda oil used during service, or void all engine warranty claims. Penrite make a suitable oil, but Mazda will still refuse to warranty the engine unless you use their oil.

same with late model Jeep transmissions, without getting into Holden 6 speed auto fluids. and then you move into the Castrol book listing the wrong diff fluid for VT onwards LSD diff's. should be a fully synthetic oil, only recomends LSX90.

If your D3 is out of warranty, give penrite a call. they make a lot of weird and wonderful oils, from Honda CRV diff oil, to Honda Power Steering fluid, and they even make power steering fluid for Mini's (no one stocks it, but its listed in the catalogue)

[Sprint]

same with late model Jeep transmissions, without getting into Holden 6 speed auto fluids. and then you move into the Castrol book listing the wrong diff fluid for VT onwards LSD diff's. should be a fully synthetic oil, only recomends LSX90.

1: Holden 6 speed auto fluid should be a Dexron VI specification
2: Holdens own workshop manual for VT's specify:

All V6 excluding Wagon with manual Transmission & V6 Supercharged Vehicles:
Mineral Hypoid Gear Oil, such as AMPOL Gearlube SRD90, BP Limslip90, Caltex Gear Oil LSD, Castrol LSX90, MOBIL Lubrite LS90, SHELL XD90LS, VALVOLINE HP Gear Oil LS90 or equivalent lubricant to Holden Specification HN1561

All V8, V6 Wagon with Manual Transmission & Supercharged Vehicles:
Synthetic Hpoid Gear Oil, such as AMPOL Synthetic Gear Oil 80W/140, CALTEX Synstar GL 80W-140, CASTROL SAF-XA (80W140), MOBIL Mobilube SHC 80W-140 ID, VALVOLINE Synthetic Gear 75W-140 or equivalent lubricant to Holden's Specification HN2040

I believe this remains the same for all VT-VZ's, the oil Holden supply for VE LSD's is IIRC a synthetic 80W140

Had to dig up a spec for the power steering fluid in a GMC Sierra recently, turned out its much the same stuff as in a Captiva...... at $70-odd a litre!

[Disomania]

turbo diesel mazda passenger cars must have Genuine Mazda oil used during service, or void all engine warranty claims. Penrite make a suitable oil, but Mazda will still refuse to warranty the engine unless you use their oil.


Would have thought this would be illegal under the same rules as apply to servicing. As long as a trained mechanic using parts/fluids as specified by the manufacturer, all warranty's MUST be honoured in Australia. Only come back they would have is if you changed the oil yourself and you are NOT qualified to do so:confused:.

I am probably wrong though as I very often am.

[Blknight.aus]

Would have thought this would be illegal under the same rules as apply to servicing. As long as a trained mechanic using parts/fluids as specified by the manufacturer, all warranty's MUST be honoured in Australia. Only come back they would have is if you changed the oil yourself and you are NOT qualified to do so:confused:.

I am probably wrong though as I very often am.

nothing stopping any mechanic from doing the service so long as they use the specified part and in mazdas case the oil is a specified part.

dont use the right oil, and thats the warranty voided.

[incisor]

Dont ever buy an vw dsg if paying $80 a litre worries you... Thats cheap ;-)

[abaddonxi]

There was a discussion three months ago or so, Rick130 made some suggestions.

[Ean Austral]

Yep bought some yesterday..just glad it only holds 1.7 ltrs.




Cheers Ean

[400HPONGAS]

Ean , what did the Local stealer charge for it per Litre ?
And I cant find any suggestions from rick130 regarding a Magna Steyr DD295 transfer box . (Not interested in any other Transfer case !)Whats been mentioned is only a copy of whats in the D3 owners manual.

[rick130]

If it's still under warranty, use whatever oil is specified by LR.

Everyone's bums are covered then.

[edit] Just read that Magna bought out the old New Venture Corp. in 2004.

NV were well known for t/case manufacturing in North America.

[rick130]

and I wouldn't use anything but the specced fluid until I know more as the t/case uses a wet clutch LSD.

The fluid may be a as simple as a synthetic UTTO or similar, NV in North America pretty much always used to use ATF's in their t/cases, but this one is built by Steyr in Austria (Magna bought Daimler, Steyr-Puch years ago too) and so what would it's parentage be ?

Anyway, here's a simple spec sheet in a PDF.

[400HPONGAS]

Simple spec sheet allright !
Says nothing ,but use the Shell stuff thats unobtainable ,but comes in cute little Landrover plastic bottles. Looks like the stealers win !!

[Piddler]

HOw much did the car cost? and people winge about a few bucks for oil seriously how often do you change it, its not like its every week. If you cant afford the oil you cant afford the car.

My 2 cents worth
Cheers

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

turbo diesel mazda passenger cars must have Genuine Mazda oil used during service, or void all engine warranty claims. Penrite make a suitable oil, but Mazda will still refuse to warranty the engine unless you use their oil.

same with late model Jeep transmissions, without getting into Holden 6 speed auto fluids. and then you move into the Castrol book listing the wrong diff fluid for VT onwards LSD diff's. should be a fully synthetic oil, only recomends LSX90.

If your D3 is out of warranty, give penrite a call. they make a lot of weird and wonderful oils, from Honda CRV diff oil, to Honda Power Steering fluid, and they even make power steering fluid for Mini's (no one stocks it, but its listed in the catalogue)

They can stipulate you use a specific oil even if it is available only thru Mazda to maintain warranty, what they can't do is say you must only take the vehicle to them and you must buy the oil from them.
If you take it for service outside the dealer but inside warranty period, the mechanic is well within his legal right to carry out the work but must adhere to any specific requirements.




Using Capitals, the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse or helping your uncle jack off a horse...

[101RRS]

HOw much did the car cost? and people winge about a few bucks for oil seriously how often do you change it, its not like its every week. If you cant afford the oil you cant afford the car.

My 2 cents worth
Cheers

The point is less about the cost of the oil but more about of the lack of alternative suppliers and competition to keep prices reasonable.

Garry

[CraigE]

This is not just limited to oil. While it does seem like restrictive practices it is the companies investment in the technology. They then sub contract someone to supply to their spec and the formula or part is licensed to be made by said company for the buyer.
It sucks yes, but until patents lapse, that is the way it is and it is only going to get worse. Part of the reason I would not buy a D3 or 4 atm.
Same thing is done by most major companies. Honda do it with bearing. Timken make the bearings, have them sitting on the shelf but can not sell them to you. They seel them to Honda for $17ea and then Honda sell them to me for $140.:o
This is why it is best to buy a global based vehicle with old technology.:p
This is partly why Holden do so well, easy to get cheap parts and consumables.

[TerryO]

Holden are doing so well ...are they? ...:wasntme:



cheers,
Terry

[rick130]

and GM did the same with Dexron VI, there were no licensed alternatives for a while.

If demand is there someone will reverse engineer the fluid (or a statute of limitations will run out and Shell will offer it)

[edit] BTW, has anyone bothered ringing Karcraft or BMI ?
They probably bring it in from the UK for substantially less than LRA. I know that a number of Land Rover dealers used to buy their genuine parts from either company rather than pay through the nose from the old PAG.

[Graeme]

If demand is there someone will reverse engineer the fluidPerhaps a similar situation to MTF94 where a Mobil technical adviser said that from their analysis Mobil's 424 universal tractor gear/hydraulic oil was at least equal to MTF94 but LR weren't interested in approving any other brand oils. I didn't get to try 424 in my D2s because I already had a 20L drum of MTF94 but recall reading that a LR dealership was using 424 oil because MTF94 wasn't available at the time. 424 oil made a significant improvement in gear changes in my son's Saab but that wasn't surprising as the recommended oil was an engine oil and the gbox was "sealed for life" and without a drain plug.

[Ean Austral]

Ean , what did the Local stealer charge for it per Litre ?
And I cant find any suggestions from rick130 regarding a Magna Steyr DD295 transfer box . (Not interested in any other Transfer case !)Whats been mentioned is only a copy of whats in the D3 owners manual.

I got it in Adelaide from the people who sold me the car, $80 bottle.

Personally, changing it at 80,000kms for $160 is cheap, was told L/R recommends change at 200,000kms.

Cheers Ean

[400HPONGAS]

Yeah well ,stuffed if im paying $80 a litre ,when you need 1.6 litres for the T/case and 1.6 Litres for the rear E/diff. (so basically you need 4 litr bottles for $320 !!)Found a substitute oil for $40 litre (aint that cheap either !!!)that even looks/smells/and feels like what it had in originally.yes the vehicle well out of the warranty period. (2005TDV6 170000K).Got the good oil from another member whose recently done a Lap around Australia,towing ,with no issues .(no,will only use the ZF stuff in the auto Trans )Front diff Im going to use REDLINE super impact.

[Nomad9]

Hi Garry,
I agree, by nature humans like to have a choice, when manufacturers force the specific brand using warranty as the ultimate safety curtain people don't have choice, I deal in a premium grade synthetic oil (IMHO) and listening to people telling me how expensive the oil is and it is a "rip off etc etc and yet they've just paid $20k+ on a lot of occasions to rebuild the engine. Then come back for more and "bleat" again despite the engine surviving no amount of abuse, usually in drag cars. Oil is cheap insurance, and that is it, the better the oil the better the insurance the lower the risk.
Saying that some expensive oils still don't cut it. Can't win this one. Once people find a good oil that works for them they will stick to it in every vehicle they ever buy until something goes wrong, then it will be the oils fault no matter what really caused te problem.

My $250 worth, it is worth more than 2 cents......... LOL

[Nomad9]

Hi There,
Nice to meet Sat morning, thanks for the LLams demo, ordered mine this morning, fantastic. I've been reading a few threads, not sure why I haven't gone down this track earlier. Nice to see a unit working as it should.

[CraigE]

Holden are doing so well ...are they? ...:wasntme:

cheers,
Terry

Well a damn site better than Ford ATM. Still the second highest seller of passenger vehicles. With the Cruze looks like they will take back #1 next year.:p:angel: The only reason Toyota are #1 overall is they sell so many 4x4s to commercial companies.
Go to any auto store and you can get parts for the v6, V8 old holden, V8 EFI Holden and the V8 Chev engines, plus most parts easily. Pretty much the same for Ford, but they just dont sell.:twisted: Even though Holden did specify Dexron IV and was a little difficult to get it did not take long for it to be available easily.
Try buying bits off the shelf for a LR, a BMW or a Porsche of the shelf anywhere outside a dealer.
Even wreckers for parts a lot of wreckers I know wont even bother buying a LR wreck.

[CraigE]

Yeah well ,stuffed if im paying $80 a litre ,when you need 1.6 litres for the T/case and 1.6 Litres for the rear E/diff. (so basically you need 4 litr bottles for $320 !!)Found a substitute oil for $40 litre (aint that cheap either !!!)that even looks/smells/and feels like what it had in originally.yes the vehicle well out of the warranty period. (2005TDV6 170000K).Got the good oil from another member whose recently done a Lap around Australia,towing ,with no issues .(no,will only use the ZF stuff in the auto Trans )Front diff Im going to use REDLINE super impact.

Agree Redline oil is probably an alternative, obviously prices have come down a bit. I remember a couple of years ago doing dare I say it, we did a mates 100 series Cruiser and the Redline oil for the two boxes cost $300 and that was at trade.
At $40 a litre better value than the LR stuff.
There are always alternatives, just depends on if your vehicle is in warranty. Just look at the R380 always was ATF as advised by LR, now LR dont even recommend that.
Been slack and have not asked the question, but you are down the road from us right. Blue V8 Disco and D3?
Cheers
CraigE

[rick130]

[snip]
Found a substitute oil for $40 litre (aint that cheap either !!!)that even looks/smells/and feels like what it had in originally.
[snip]


Well, what is it ? and does anyone really know what the Shell stuff is ?

BTW, Redline Shockproof is total overkill for the front diff (I'm assuming that's what you mean by 'impact' ?
Standard Redline 75W-90 diff oil is fine.

[400HPONGAS]

Yeah your right rick130, its the shockproof stuff ,Ive used it in every rover diff Ive ever owned (except for the E/diff D3 ) PM Nomad9 for new stuff .
CraigE ,thats my 88 Hi-line RRC on the 33's , and Cleavers 2009 TDV6 D3 ,my D3 resides in Perth,SWMBO's!!
CraigE, thats Frenchies D3 and he just sold the D1 ,(thats after he ripped front wheel off it and I replaced the whole front end LOL)

[vbrab]

Have just got around to having to change my own transfer case oil on the D3, and asking the perrenial question, what oil/fluid do I put in it?
I now have it on 2 solid authorities on Disocvery3 Auto boxes and transfer cases, what fluid to use.
I am told with great certainty that auto box and the transfer case both take Lifeguard 6 (The ZF fluid).

I got the advice on the transfer box from the guys who have serviced it for past 450,000k's and from the guys who re-build and install most of the autos for the Land Rover dealer in WA and many other Land Rover service places, so I have to go with that advice.
Even the office receptionist told me she thought it was Lifeguard 6, when she went to confirm with the main service person (the guy who rebuilt and fitted my auto 150,000 k's ago).

Have found a good economical source for this fluid and trans filters/gasgets etc, is a motor spares group called Motospecs, branches in each state (part of Repco group, but they don't work together).
I usually buy a 20 litre (cheaper rate), for when I change trans fluid, but they sell smaller containers.

[PerthDisco]

I was told that also by same auto box shop.

The theory however was shot down here when I shared it though for reasons I cannot recall - different colour, smell, taste?

[SeanC]

I would stick with genuine Special Transfer Box Oil. IYK500010. It’s expensive but it’s only every 5 years and a lot cheaper than a damaged transfer case.

[discomatt69]

I would stick with genuine Special Transfer Box Oil. IYK500010. It’s expensive but it’s only every 5 years and a lot cheaper than a damaged transfer case.

Couldn't agree more, $120 / change for "special" oil or $60 for a cheap alternative , save $60 Who gives a .... I spend more than that on coffee in a couple of weeks....

[101RRS]

Couldn't agree more, $120 / change for "special" oil or $60 for a cheap alternative , save $60 Who gives a .... I spend more than that on coffee in a couple of weeks....

The real issue is whether LG6 is suitable for the transfer case - I have never heard of it before but apparently it has been in the transfer case for some time without an issue.

Garry

[loanrangie]

No difference really, liquid gold or liquid gold.

[discomatt69]

The real issue is whether LG6 is suitable for the transfer case - I have never heard of it before but apparently it has been in the transfer case for some time without an issue.

Garry

Without issue would be questionable, my current D1 had trans fluid in the transfer case when I bought it. Some dick did that and my peanut of a mechanic said "Ah it should be OK" It was OK on a test drive and OK for some time after I gave it a full service and the correct oil was put in. Within 10,000 km of slightly bigger wheels and some decent 4wding it started making some pretty sad bearing noises. Ended up needing a full rebuild soon after.
Just use the correct oil[thumbsupbig]

[loanrangie]

Cant compare a ZF to an LT230, the steyr tc is probably closer to an auto in design so its possible that LG6 is suitable although i would want that confirmed before using it.

[rick130]

A lot of chain drive t/cases use ATF as the lubricant, but I have no idea what the Shell lube for the Steyr case is.

[101RRS]

Cant compare a ZF to an LT230, the steyr tc is probably closer to an auto in design so its possible that LG6 is suitable although i would want that confirmed before using it. I think if LR were happy to use LG6 in the transfer case they would have specified it - as far as I am aware the the specified transfer case oil is not an ATF but I am not sure.


A lot of chain drive t/cases use ATF as the lubricant, but I have no idea what the Shell lube for the Steyr case is.

Shell TF 0753