Carrying Fuel On Trailers

[101RRS]

As I understand, it is illegal to carry fuel in jerry can holders on the rear of vehicles and trailers.

However I am unsure whether it applies to all fuels or just petrol and diesel or just petrol. Certainly some diesel vehicles (maybe made before the rules came in) came with diesel jerry can holders (early Pajeros) on the rear.

So can someone advise whether diesel can or cannot be carried in jerry cans on the rear of vehicles and trailers.

I appreciate there will be various views on the issue but I am mainly after the legalities.

Thanks

Garry

[Graeme]

Whilst I don't have reference to the legislation, I've understood for many years that its only petrol that's prohibitted. I carry a jerry of diesel on my box trailer on interstate drives in a yellow container to advertise that its diesel.

[THE BOOGER]

NSW does not have any rules that I can find and the epa sent this to some else who asked the same question





Petrol is classified as a dangerous goods and is controlled by dangerous goods transport law. Diesel is not a dangerous goods and is not controlled.
The Act controls all transport of dangerous goods and requires everyone to transport dangerous goods safely. . However, the dangerous goods Regulations for transport of all dangerous goods including flammable liquids (dangerous goods of class 3) do not control certain activities.
These uncontrolled activities include the private transport of your own goods provided there are less than 250 litres of petrol or other flammable liquids in one or more drums or jerricans on your vehicle.
This means, as far as DEC controls (and NSW law) are concerned, that you can carry jerricans of petrol in your car with no restrictions other than the general duty of care to do this safely. It is up to you to use 'safe' procedures.
Please note that the dangerous goods transport laws are uniform throughout Australia.
Please also note that most vehicle insurance policies require you to notify the insurance company if you transport dangerous goods, such as petrol and LP gas.

Alan Ritchie
Manager Dangerous Goods
Department of Environment and Conservation NSW
Australia
Ph 02 9995 5411 (+ 612 9995 5411)
Fx 02 9995 5918 (+ 612 9995 5918)


Geoff :D

[THE BOOGER]

Here is the full post from another forum


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greetings

I thought I would post an exchange of emails between myself and the relevant authorities on exactly this topic.

First off I emailed the RTA and they told me that they were not the responsible authority and that I should contact the EPA and Workcover. Anyway the upshot of that is that Workcover determine whether a good is a dangerous good, and the EPA regulates the storage and carriage requirements of such goods.

Below is my email exchange with the EPA (my email is at bottom, their response at top):

______________________

Bradley


Petrol is classified as a dangerous goods and is controlled by dangerous goods transport law. Diesel is not a dangerous goods and is not controlled.
The Act controls all transport of dangerous goods and requires everyone to transport dangerous goods safely. . However, the dangerous goods Regulations for transport of all dangerous goods including flammable liquids (dangerous goods of class 3) do not control certain activities.
These uncontrolled activities include the private transport of your own goods provided there are less than 250 litres of petrol or other flammable liquids in one or more drums or jerricans on your vehicle.
This means, as far as DEC controls (and NSW law) are concerned, that you can carry jerricans of petrol in your car with no restrictions other than the general duty of care to do this safely. It is up to you to use 'safe' procedures.
Please note that the dangerous goods transport laws are uniform throughout Australia.
Please also note that most vehicle insurance policies require you to notify the insurance company if you transport dangerous goods, such as petrol and LP gas.

Alan Ritchie
Manager Dangerous Goods
Department of Environment and Conservation NSW
Australia
Ph 02 9995 5411 (+ 612 9995 5411)
Fx 02 9995 5918 (+ 612 9995 5918)

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, 28 May 2004 11:37 AM
To: info@epa.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Carrying fuel


Good Morning



I was referred to you by the RTA.



My query relates to the transportation of fuel (petrol) in "jerry cans". I understand that the "jerry cans" must comply with the appropriate Australian Standards. Are there any rules or regulations that must be followed relating to the transportation of "jerry cans" of fuel in or on a motor vehicle?





Many Thanks

___________________________

Read into that what you will.


Cheers

[Mick_Marsh]

I would hope none of you would carry them on the rear of the vehicle or trailer.
If you do, in case of rear collision, carry a long stick and a packet of marshmallows.

[THE BOOGER]

Mick do you just carry empties on your exmil,s , I carry 4 on the sides of my camper and the ones on the s111 gs are full as well:D

[Mick_Marsh]

I carry a credit card. Good at almost any servo.
I also have a RACV card.
Having said that, I have quite a few "running out of fuel" stories.
None of the ex-mil vehicles and trailers are currently registered so fuel (or lack of) is not an issue.
I carry a 10l emergency supply in a plastic fuel container in the boot of the cars. I carry a 20l plastic fuel container tied to the tray of the tray vehicles. The others, I don't carry fuel.
One of the Mokes I had two containers mounted on the back. One fuel and one water.
I now realise the risk I was taking so now they're both water.

[cewilson]

That relates to petrol carried only, as it is classified as a Dangerous Good. Diesel is not classified the same way, so it does not come under the same rules.


Cheers
Chris

[101RRS]

Thanks for all the responses - wouldn't be real keen on carrying petrol at the back but on the basis of what you have said will happily carry some diesel in jerries on the back of my camper.

Cheers

Garry

[Tank]

NSW does not have any rules that I can find and the epa sent this to some else who asked the same question





Petrol is classified as a dangerous goods and is controlled by dangerous goods transport law. Diesel is not a dangerous goods and is not controlled.
The Act controls all transport of dangerous goods and requires everyone to transport dangerous goods safely. . However, the dangerous goods Regulations for transport of all dangerous goods including flammable liquids (dangerous goods of class 3) do not control certain activities.
These uncontrolled activities include the private transport of your own goods provided there are less than 250 litres of petrol or other flammable liquids in one or more drums or jerricans on your vehicle.
This means, as far as DEC controls (and NSW law) are concerned, that you can carry jerricans of petrol in your car with no restrictions other than the general duty of care to do this safely. It is up to you to use 'safe' procedures.
Please note that the dangerous goods transport laws are uniform throughout Australia.
Please also note that most vehicle insurance policies require you to notify the insurance company if you transport dangerous goods, such as petrol and LP gas.

Alan Ritchie
Manager Dangerous Goods
Department of Environment and Conservation NSW
Australia
Ph 02 9995 5411 (+ 612 9995 5411)
Fx 02 9995 5918 (+ 612 9995 5918)


Geoff :D
Geoff, I would like to point out that while diesel is relatively inert, when it gets hot, like sitting in the sun in a gerry can on a trailer for hours on end, it is a totally different beast.
Diesel when HOT is extremely explosive as I found out the hard way.
My brother poured a gallon or so of hot Diesel (which had been sitting in a gerry can all day) onto a couple of hundred pounds of insulated copper wire that I had just placed on a FJ holden bonnet (upside down, we used for burning off copper wire) and applied a lit paper roll.
I was about 20 yards away and was blown flat on my face, my brother was blown a good 20 yards into a paling fence, the FJ bonnet was as flat as a pancake and our 200lb of copper wire was on the roofs of houses for hundreds of yards around, a mushroom cloud rose about a 100ft. in the air closely followed by the cops and fire brigade.
So mate don't ever use hot diesel to get a fire going, unless you're sick of living, Regards Frank.

[p38arover]

Thanks for all the responses - wouldn't be real keen on carrying petrol at the back but on the basis of what you have said will happily carry some diesel in jerries on the back of my camper.


Allow some expansion room in the jerrycan.

A friend came off his bike (fortunately at a relatively low speed) on a corner last week after hitting diesel on the road. Result - damaged bike and broken collarbone.

[Ivan]

When I did my Libya and Morocco trips I carried 120 Litres of Petrol in the back of my Discovery. For the Libya trip I also carried another 40 litres on the roof rack. The roof rack Jerry Cans were metal and the inside ones were plastic Jerry cans (you should never leave plastic Jerry cans exposed to the sunlight for too long). As Ron says allow room in the can for expansion and it's not a problem.
I also put my 90 upside down in a ditch when I skidded on a roundabout because someone has spilt diesel all over the road :mad:

Ivan

[Graeme]

Diesel when HOT is extremely explosiveDiesel fumes are also highly explosive so even diesel engined vehicles and equipment shouldn't be refueled with the engine running.

[Davehoos]

it is very hard to ignite diesel vapour--but not impossible.
ive often seen fuel spill on to hot steel and atomise-often inside a fuel tank you get a diesel mist-i had a injector fail and the compression inflated the tank forcing diesel out of the fuel cap.
but that not a jerry can,storage tank.

I would expect the real world risk assesment to be a fuel spill situation and not a fire.
I had 2 jerry recently broke away from a mounting of a fire truck going over a drain only one came open.but a these wiegh a few KG and you wouldnt want it to hit anything.

our work refueler is 500L-it only has a fire extinguisher and a spill kit.
the other 200L has no requirements and i hadnt thought about spill bunding.

[101RRS]

I did my trip with my camper and took two metal jerries on the back filled with diesel. My TDV6 chews through a bit of fuel when towing and particularly off road and as I was not sure exactly what the conditions I would encounter I took the jerries.

The two jerrie were relatively new 'Motorguard' models bought from Repco about two years ago. I have used them for few trips filled with petrol strapped inside my 101 and never had any issues with them.

However when I was checking the rig over after about 300km of driving I noticed that one of the jerries was leaking from the filler seal and a bit of fuel had been spilled - if it had been petrol would have been very dangerous.

The latch on the jerry will not clamp down very tight so I assume the rubber seal has compressed.

Is there any issue with these seals switching between fuels and I assume you can buy replacements - where???

Also - I bought a funnel to put fuel in the car if needed (not needed with the 101). I did not want to use a clip on spout as I have two different versions and both pour out as much fuel as it puts in the tank. Does anyone have a version that actually works with a standard metal jerry and where did you get it.

Thanks

Garry

[TerryO]

Personally I won't use a Jerry that has had petrol in it for Diesel and vice versa even though the risk of cross contamination is not that great.

Neither do I use funnels if I can help it I prefer a syphon hose. If it is only a small 5 litre emergency jerry then a funnel is fine.

The preferrence for syphon hoses comes from a misspent youth ...:angel:

cheers,
Terry

[Blknight.aus]

swinging a broad sword...

so long as its not bulk (under 205L for diesel and petrol 9.5kg I think for lpg) and the container is approved for the carriage of the fuel you want to transport, providing you have it adequately secured within the dimensions of the vehicle then you can legally carry fuel wherever the hell you want on the vehicle.

however, whats smart to do and what you can do are 2 entirely different things.

I personally don't like to carry fuel in any enclosed area.

[Blknight.aus]

Is there any issue with these seals switching between fuels and I assume you can buy replacements - where???

Garry

most places that you can buy the steel jerries from will have the replacements, I have seen them at clarks rubber, BCF, out of town Servos, surplus stores (they also come in the CES kits of 110's, IMV's, Mogs, macks) and they are available from the nearest person to you that you dont like who also has steel jerries.

[101 Ron]

WW 2 jeep.....jerry can at extreme rear of vehicle.
WW2 dodge weapons carrier.....jerry can on running board.
Series three FFR landrover.....two jerrycans at extreme rear one on each side.
CJ jeeps one jerry can at extreme rear.
Misubishi pajero factory jerry can at extreme rear.
Some ex army mini Mokes one jerry can
After market swing out jerry can holders at rear of modern toyotas and patrols.
Many , many more which I cannot think of.
If any danger was present with these vehicles I think it would have been made illegal many years ago.
The fact is with a good metal jerry can can be dropped from a great height and not burst.
The germans worked this out just before WW2 and why the Allieds copied it and they are still used today by all armies.
Miltiary vehicles could carry a hundred jerrys in the back during war and not to many were lost though the jerrys.
We watch too many films where the car goes down the cliff and explodes where in real life it is rare.
The real danger is plastic Jerrys or cheap thin metal ones.
Old ex army Aussie made Reem were the best ones.
To day if you purchase a thick wall metal european made one you cannot go to far wrong.
Feel the weight of the jerry.....go for the heaviest built one.
I have carried jerrys in proper made jerry holders on the a frame of trailers and never had a problem.
Carrying them loose in the rear of a trailer would be asking for trouble as the trailer may not ride that well and skip around.
I have seen plastic jerrys of petrol get hot in the sun and pressurerise, swell and become dangerous especially when removing the cap.
A metal quailty jerry will allow slow pressure release and the clamping action of the cap will not leak if the gasket is good.
Metal jerrys will not swell and therefore will not become stuck in the jerry can holder and cause accident trying to reef it out.
In the real world has anyone seen a correctly fitted metal jerry can cause a fire in a accident ?????
In accidents I have seen where jerrycans are fitted to the outside of a vehicle, they will break free and not cause a problem.
I think a bigger danger is the modern high pressure fuel systems fitted to cars fail to shut off, or get damaged causing a fire with the close location of the engine and the all the extra exhaust compents these days and there is plently of cases to back this up.

[101 Ron]

just one other thing.
Metal jerrys wear out like any thing else and should be checked from time to time and the holders should have a rubber or soft base(not metal on metal) so wear is reduced.

[101RRS]

My jerries are in proper, rubber lined fitting as at the rear of the camper - held in with rubber lined chains and do not bounce around.

[big dave]

gday old ex army reem jerry cans, where can i buy some, im on the gold coast, cheers

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Personally I won't use a Jerry that has had petrol in it for Diesel and vice versa even though the risk of cross contamination is not that great.

...Should not usually a problem putting petrol in a former diesel jerry as you can put a small amount of diesel into a full tank of petrol to use as an upper cylinder lubricant. This is instead of using expensive upper cylinder lubricants to do the same job.

Diana

[101 Ron]

Better army disposal shops sell ex army jerrycans, but it pays to look at a few carefully and pick out the best ones.
I find Autopro and Repco can sell reasonable metal ones for about 50 dollars a pop new, but they can sell rubbish too.
Look for country of manufacture on the label.....china and tawian are no go.
Yugoslavia tends to be good and feel the weight of construction ect.
If you tend to use your metal jerry can with a pouring attachment and for general easy useage, look carefully for the air vent pipe arrangement just inside the pouring neck.
Good metal jerry cans have well designed metal pipe which runs back into the jerry can and lets air back into the jerry can when pouring and does so in a controlled manner and that pipe should line up correctly with any pouring attachment you should purchase for your jerry can.
Cheap jerry can this pipe can be a poorly fitted piece of folded metal , or is not long enough to vent air correctly back into the jerry can.
If buying a plastic jerry for diesel, get one with a extra cap , or air vent in the top as you could spend all day trying to empty the thing via pourer, etc.

[101 Ron]

Any pouring attachment with a metal jerry cans has some problems, but it is now a requirement for modern vehicles.
I just had a quick look of whats advailible and there is nothing that impresses me much
The best one was like the one below , but had along air vent pipe that ran back down though the pouring throat of the jerry can, indepandant of the jerry cans air vent pipe and because of that, could empty the jerry can quickly.
Holding onto a jerrycan chest height with a poorly venting pouring attachment is not much fun as it takes a very long time glugging away and that jerry can gets very heavy.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

The real answer to jerry cans is do with them what they were designed to do and pour them without a attachment.
Real men ,drive real landrovers that have extendable fuel tank spouts designed especially for jerry cans, like earlier model defenders, and ex miltiary series 2as and 101 Forward control etc and drop a jerry in the tank in a minute.
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:p:p

[THE BOOGER]

Or have a big funnel we used to empty a jerry in about 15 sec into M113,s they had a big funnel so a jerry would sit in it:D

[101 Ron]

Petrol jerry cans various vehicles I have in my photo bucket collection
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/978.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/833.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/834.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/835.jpg
The set up on my Jayco...........Only use the jerry carriers for water, but that only because it suits me to do so .
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/836.jpg
[url=http://s131.photobucket.com/albums/p299/101Ron/?action=view&current=jayco2005campervanhawk26122007007.jpg
Two jerry carriers on the A frame of a jeep trailer can just been seen
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/837.jpg

[101RRS]

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p299/101Ron/phpThumb_generated_thumbnailjpg.jpg



They do not work and end up spilling as much fuel as goes in the tank. Yep not needed for the 101 but a spout or a funnel is needed for the car.

[101 Ron]

http://s131.photobucket.com/albums/p299/101Ron/?action=view&current=BILD0044.jpg


http://s131.photobucket.com/albums/p299/101Ron/?action=view&current=DSCF0528.jpg



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/828.jpg

[101 Ron]

Petrol in jerrycans is not a problem compared to a bike rider with a 1mm piece of steel or 3mm plastic and the family jewels on the fuel tank and that tank has little protection in accident..........yet very few bikes go up in flames.
Ron

[Hoges]

I carry a 250 L tank from a Freightliner:angel: on the draw bar of the camper I built. It's inside a box made of dexion frame covered with marine ply. The framework has no structural significance for supporting the tank

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/807.jpg

The tank is held in place with the original "strapping" as fitted to the prime mover with the cast fixtures bolted to two cross pieces welded into place and strengthened with gussets.

The tank was 6 months old when I bought it with all fittings and fixtures for a shade under $500. It's light enough to easily manhandle into position when empty... Came with the sender so I simply bought a 12V fuel gauge from a boat supplies. The calibrated gauge takes its power from a distribution board inside the camper housing 2 x 105 AH super charge "All Rounder" batteries hooked up in parallel

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/808.jpg

I fitted a Schraeder valve and pump in 4psi max with an ARB compressor. I then open a ball cock and ULP flows into the main tank through 4m of 10mm (ID) fuel hose. Takes about 15 mins to dump 70L. Depending on the external temp, I sometimes need to top up the pressure with a couple of seconds burst from the compressor. I never exceed 180L petrol in the tank when filling it. works well!

EDIT: Towing that lot to the Cape and back plus some touring... over 8,000km or thereabouts...overall consumption was a shade under 18L/100km. At a steady 90-95 on the highway it dropped to 14.5L/100km

[defender90]

Try a Tanami pro for jerry can transfer
http://www.tanamipump.com.au/images/Tanami%20Red1.jpg

[bee utey]

In my shed I have a Facet pump with some fuel hose each end, a switch and some cable, to drain or refill tanks around the place. Jerries/tanks can be drained at ground level. Slow but easy.

[Hoges]

Thanks for the info :BigThumb:I wondered about a Facet pump but got the impression that they were unsuitable for petrol but excellent for diesel... may have to reconsider!

[Davehoos]

Facet is a brand of lots of types of pumps.
cant go wrong with the rattler shuttle pump as long as gravel wont get caught in the ball..that might be why theuy have a pre filter.

john deer 5000 series has a wire mech filter in can form to strain the gravel in the diesel---"after the fuel pump".

i often fill cans with some diesel or kero to stop the rust with modern petrol.it doesnt pay to leave them empty.had a few rust from the inside out,more chance of water or rust or dirt contamination.

getting a few cans with the seal failurebut i like father inlaws US marine can with is large cap and filler tube..

tend to fill a plastic 20L oil container with long filler tube.then poor it into a car.the cans with the breather tend to fill quicker than the neck on most cars.,

[wrinklearthur]

Personally I won't use a Jerry that has had petrol in it for Diesel and vice versa even though the risk of cross contamination is not that great. cheers, Terry

Petrol is a great primer to get a diesel or sump oil fire going almost instantly and only needs a thimble full, at the beginning of the tail of fuel going to a bull dozed heap, to get it blazing quick time.

Don't mix fuels in containers! :nazibanned: (always wondered if I would use that icon).
.

[TerryO]

Petrol is a great primer to get a diesel or sump oil fire going almost instantly and only needs a thimble full, at the beginning of the tail of fuel going to a bull dozed heap, to get it blazing quick time.

Don't mix fuels in containers! :nazibanned: (always wondered if I would use that icon).
.


So we both agree that this is not a good idea. ...;)

cheers,
Terry